Doug Phillips & Vision Forum & Lourdes - Part 2

[longskirtlonghair]

Okay, but that's not what you said, so that's not what I was responding to. I asked you whether you went to his Facebook page and clicked on the link and you said, "Not really, no."

Wow. If this kind of nitpicking is what's going to go on here, I have rethink if I want to be a part of this community. The "Not really, no" was a response to "it's a threat/ cyber stalking." Of course, you don't know me, so you can't know I of obviously read what we were discussing and skipped that question (because it was obvious to me. My mistake) and was responding to your assessment of the situation. It wasn't clear, no, but I clarified later. Why do you feel the need to rub it in? Jeez. Rhetorical question, by the way. *If* I join in other discussions, I'll make myself clearer.

[Palimpsest]

Gentle advice to newer posters - it takes time to find your feet at FJ. It is also not wise to come in to a long standing discussion telling us that we are being mean to Nolan and not taking account of his background. We are not mean to him and do see him in the context of his background and experiences as far as we can.

Also, new posters telling us that we are wrong and touting their "Degreed Professional^TM" status and experience have become something of a standing joke here. Sorry about that.

I did read your posts, Longskirtlonghair. My personal and professional experience with domestic violence prevention, tells me that that it is dangerous to assume anything ever - and I certainly can't diagnose, or predict behaviors and motivations over the internet. ;)

However, I certainly would not assume that Nolan's erratic and hostile behavior on social media is "nothing." We have no idea what went on in that marriage or how he is behaving - unless we happen to know Nolan and or Lourdes personally. I would always err on the side of caution in similar scenarios and recommend that Lourdes takes precautions. As always, I hope Nolan's friends are looking out for him.

We can certainly agree that there is nothing wrong with hoping people are safe, getting appropriate counseling, and don't do angry, foolish and overtly hostile things.

[DomWackTroll]

Wow. If this kind of nitpicking is what's going to go on here, I have rethink if I want to be a part of this community. The "Not really, no" was a response to "it's a threat/ cyber stalking." Of course, you don't know me, so you can't know I of obviously read what we were discussing and skipped that question (because it was obvious to me. My mistake) and was responding to your assessment of the situation. It wasn't clear, no, but I clarified later. Why do you feel the need to rub it in? Jeez. Rhetorical question, by the way. *If* I join in other discussions, I'll make myself clearer.

I apologize for misreading your response.

[treemom]

Fair enough, CnD. We'll have to agree to disagree, though, because where you see "deliberate" I see "lashing out in confusion." He's messed up and he's being making one mistake after the other, bad mistakes. But he still does not strike me as cruel or in control. He strikes me as someone who wasn't taught how to handle life and relationships and has no idea how to act once out of the strict mold he was taught.

Also, CrazyMumma, you're right. There's EQ and IQ. I don't think Nolan is particularly smart, either, though. His problem, of course, is emotional, but his execution is always pretty transparent and simplistic.

To be clear: I think he's a mess. I think Lourdes deserves and needs some peace. But I also think she has made some pretty bad decisions and mistakes herself, because she's still reacting to her abuse. Which is normal and to be expected. But Nolan's breakdown is, too.

Being deliberate and lashing out are not mutually exclusive. Being hurt doesn't excuse the things you do to hurt others, including the ones you were hurt by.

Infidelity sucks, but assuming it is true, Lourdes isn't doing all this public posting about him. She doesn't owe anyone an apology or ask for forgiveness from anyone else. None of us have the need to know this.

I have said it before, I think it's completely shitty to out infidelity like this. Want to make sure those who know you understand, fine, have the fuck at it. But this? She isn't a real public figure. She sued someone. She doesn't need to answer to strangers. She isn't a politician or a minister or a CEO caught sleeping with an employee. It's shitty to do this.

[mnwnwmwmn]

I wonder if Jen Epstein/Fishburne/Whatever she goes by these days is the "Christian Marriage Counselor" he refers to in his 13-point rebuttle. He did say in the videos that she had been giving him advice, or something to that effect.

[DomWackTroll]

I wonder if Jen Epstein/Fishburne/Whatever she goes by these days is the "Christian Marriage Counselor" he refers to in his 13-point rebuttle. He did say in the videos that she had been giving him advice, or something to that effect.

Good catch! It wouldn't surprise me.

[Maxwell]

Please understand, I am not defending Nolan's actions. Not at all. I do have to wonder though, what the response would be if the tables were turned. What if Nolan had filed for a divorce and Lourdes had posted similar videos? What if we later found out that Nolan had had an affair 6-7 months into the marriage and several months before filing, and keeping it a secret for almost a year? What if Lourdes had posted the "My spouse cheated on me!" diatribe? I can't help but think that the response wouldn't be substantially different, Nolan would be a scumbag and Lourdes would be a hurt individual who needs time to heal.

Again, I'm not trying to defend him but I do feel for the guy. If what he said is true... that sucks! He married a girl that he'd been in love with for some time... they were coming out of a horrible situation... they appeared to at least have each other to lean on... then SHE files for divorce (apparently telling him that it was because of his lack of drive and self medicating on video games) but he later finds out that she was stepping out on him prior to filing. That REALLY sucks! I understand his hurt -- he's been kicked in the nuts multiple times by people he has loved and trusted, he's lost his mentor and his girl, his relations with his family are strained. My guess is that his foray into Taro cards and Astrology are a desperate attempt to make some sense out of his crumbling world -- and why not? They certainly aren't any less logical or less stable than what he grew up with.

OK, I'm done venting now. Sorry.

[salex]

Let me get this straight: You don't even know what Nolan did, and refuse to find out what he did, but you're still sure that it's "not a threat, nor cyber stalking."

Wait, what is Tonya's hair doing in this thread?

Now back to Doug and Lourdes....And Nolan

[CloakNDagger]

Please understand, I am not defending Nolan's actions. Not at all. I do have to wonder though, what the response would be if the tables were turned. What if Nolan had filed for a divorce and Lourdes had posted similar videos? What if we later found out that Nolan had had an affair 6-7 months into the marriage and several months before filing, and keeping it a secret for almost a year? What if Lourdes had posted the "My spouse cheated on me!" diatribe? I can't help but think that the response wouldn't be substantially different, Nolan would be a scumbag and Lourdes would be a hurt individual who needs time to heal.

Again, I'm not trying to defend him but I do feel for the guy. If what he said is true... that sucks! He married a girl that he'd been in love with for some time... they were coming out of a horrible situation... they appeared to at least have each other to lean on... then SHE files for divorce (apparently telling him that it was because of his lack of drive and self medicating on video games) but he later finds out that she was stepping out on him prior to filing. That REALLY sucks! I understand his hurt -- he's been kicked in the nuts multiple times by people he has loved and trusted, he's lost his mentor and his girl, his relations with his family are strained. My guess is that his foray into Taro cards and Astrology are a desperate attempt to make some sense out of his crumbling world -- and why not? They certainly aren't any less logical or less stable than what he grew up with.

OK, I'm done venting now. Sorry.

Yeah, there's definitely an angle there. It does make sense if you figure he's following a pattern of exposing what he believes to be lies and hypocrisy. That's nothing new for Nolan. Lourdes apparently believes in exposing lies and hypocrisy, too, so it's probably fair play, but a bit low. I would hope I would take the high road if I was ever in that position.

[Taters]

I am also "new" given my number of posts and my actual de-lurking.

However, I've been following VF, DP and FJ for years and years. I did not see any new members saying JFites were being "mean" to Nolan. I understand the poster wondering if what Nolan did was cyberstalking. I wonder about that too, and it might seem like we're nitpicking indeed. It does not mean that we (I) condone what he's doing.

[Coco]

The latest case updates:

9/24/2015 SET ON JURY DOCKET

**PER DCO**

COURT: 285 TRIAL DATE & TIME: 5/16/2016 8:30AM

9/25/2015 SET A.D.R. DOCKET

COURT: 225 TRIAL DATE & TIME: 1/6/2016 8:30AM

I have no idea what i'm reading but... are these dates for actual trials with a jury? :cracking-up:

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Yeah, jury trial date and then a.d.r. Is alternative dispute resolution which is either mediation (trying to settle out of court with a mediator) or arbitration (when an arbitrator, not a judge, hears and decides the case). So I think it's probably assigning mediation before the trial.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

Good catch! It wouldn't surprise me.

If Jen Fishburne (or Fishbone as my autocorrect likes to call her, which hey, it fits) is his "counselor" then all the "nucking futs" behavior that he's displaying lately... it would not shock me if it wasn't at least partially being egged on by her. Not saying that he wouldn't go off the rails on his own without her being involved or excusing him, not by far, but I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't somehow validating all the terrible decisions he's making and telling him that HE is the victim in all this. :roll:

[Palimpsest]

Maxwell, you make very valid points. I agree that Nolan has been dealt a really shitty hand and is in a lot of pain. I hope if the tables were turned that I'd be equally critical of Lourdes for spilling the dirt on line or outing someone on a cheater website. I believe that is unacceptable behavior - whoever does it. Of course, this is made even more complicated by the fact that Lourdes is in the middle of a lawsuit. That makes it an even worse thing to do.

We knew Jen Fishburne was involved in this up to her neck back in May. Nolan mentioned her in his first video and we discussed it here:

viewtopic.php?f=93&t=26010

It was a very bad idea for Nolan to confide in Jen or get any "counseling" from her. She is not stable and is a horrible person to boot. In my opinion.

I suppose the good news is that Jen is supposedly on the road grifting for God at the moment. I hope she's distracted from the situation and won't do more damage.

[alphagirlzk]

Well if this case ever goes to trial, I could go. I live about an hour away.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Well if this case ever goes to trial, I could go. I live about an hour away.

Live news coverage! :clap:

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Well if this case ever goes to trial, I could go. I live about an hour away.

Yeah...we're definitely gonna need you to do that. Dougie squirming on the stand needs to be witnessed live.

ETA: This post made me an official Degreed Law Professional OMG YES my dream come true.

[Maxwell]

Maxwell, you make very valid points. I agree that Nolan has been dealt a really shitty hand and is in a lot of pain. I hope if the tables were turned that I'd be equally critical of Lourdes for spilling the dirt on line or outing someone on a cheater website. I believe that is unacceptable behavior - whoever does it. Of course, this is made even more complicated by the fact that Lourdes is in the middle of a lawsuit. That makes it an even worse thing to do.

I'm torn. Yes, it's a shitty thing for Nolan to do... but doesn't Lourdes hold some responciblity for this? Nolan made it public but Lordes was the one doing the deed. Who's hurting the lawsuit here? If I were in DPIAT/R shoes, you better believe I'd be searching for any dirt I could to show that my accusor was at least partly to blame... and this would be just the thing to do it. To me, Lourdes has torpedo her own case. Nolan ain't helping but I would be shocked if DPIAT/R's lawyer(s) didn't already know about this.

[alphagirlzk]

If the trial get pushed back into the summer, my son (14 yo) can go too. Unfortunately my fundi fascination has rubbed off on him as well. I have not introduced him to VF and Dough the Tool, only ATI/IBLP, but he is a quick learner.

[Clementine]

If the trial get pushed back into the summer, my son (14 yo) can go too. Unfortunately my fundi fascination has rubbed off on him as well. I have not introduced him to VF and Dough the Tool, only ATI/IBLP, but he is a quick learner.

Oh please go! I am prepared to contribute with money to a tip jar to sponsor your lunch. :popcorn2:

[DomWackTroll]

I'm torn. Yes, it's a shitty thing for Nolan to do... but doesn't Lourdes hold some responciblity for this? Nolan made it public but Lordes was the one doing the deed. Who's hurting the lawsuit here? If I were in DPIAT/R shoes, you better believe I'd be searching for any dirt I could to show that my accusor was at least partly to blame... and this would be just the thing to do it. To me, Lourdes has torpedo her own case. Nolan ain't helping but I would be shocked if DPIAT/R's lawyer(s) didn't already know about this.

For what? There is no proof of it even happening. All we have is the word of a very bitter, unstable young man.

[Maxwell]

DWT, you are correct. I have assumed that what Nolan has posted is true. There is the possibility that he is in scorched-earth-destructo mode.

[ILoveJellybeans]

This is just so sad :( I think they rushed into marriage for all the wrong reasons, theyre still very much hurting over their terrible past in a cult....but it was so low of Nolan to say such a thing in public.

[DomWackTroll]

DWT, you are correct. I have assumed that what Nolan has posted is true. There is the possibility that he is in scorched-earth-destructo mode.

You might be right, Maxwell; it could be true. We just don't know. Nolan was raised to be paranoid, and he is, so I just think we have to take that into account when he throws accusations around.

[CloakNDagger]

I'm torn. Yes, it's a shitty thing for Nolan to do... but doesn't Lourdes hold some responciblity for this? Nolan made it public but Lordes was the one doing the deed. Who's hurting the lawsuit here? If I were in DPIAT/R shoes, you better believe I'd be searching for any dirt I could to show that my accusor was at least partly to blame... and this would be just the thing to do it. To me, Lourdes has torpedo her own case. Nolan ain't helping but I would be shocked if DPIAT/R's lawyer(s) didn't already know about this.

If true, I think it makes the case more difficult, but definitely doesn't torpedo the case if the case is accurate.