Mark Driscoll. The Wife's Fault

[debrand]

Perhaps because he doesn't wear the uniform of a fundie, I never really paid attention to Mark Driscoll. That changed when I realized that Josh Harris is connected with him.

This is an old article but it struck me as relevant to our discussions here. Apparently, Driscoll wrote this during the Haggard scandal and removed it from his blog. I can't find the original article but there are plenty of online discussion about it.

http://www.findingrhythm.com/blog/?p=493

{

Home}

The Power of Denial and AcceptanceI voted….the wait begins# Mark Driscoll Suggests it’s her fault

Blogging, The Church @ 05 November 2006

Because he’s such a swell guy, Mark Driscoll has taken upon himself, in response to the Ted Haggard scandal, to share some “practicle suggestions†on his personal blog as a way of encouraging young church leaders to avoid the pitfalls of sexual immorality. One of his suggestions is the following:

Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors’ wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband’s sin, but she may not be helping him either.â€

If one could be a fly on the wall of all the marital arguments this suggestion will lead to. Just imagine all the young men under Driscoll’s influence who all of the sudden feel they have the freedom to suggest to their wives that they lose a few pounds or they might end up being cheated on. This seems to advocate some kind of conditional love and faithfullness based on physical appearance. Just the thing you want to hear from your pastor, right? Amazing. Also, is it me or does Driscoll look like he could benefit from his own advice?

Does anyone have a link to the original article? I'd like to see the article that this quote came from.

[debrand]

By the way, do a search for Mark Driscoll's photo. Although he is not obese, he could stand to loose a few pounds. What is up with men telling women not to let themselves go when they don't care about their own bodies?

Also, how does he know what type of conversations that pastors have with their wives? Does he ask them?

Does anyone else know anything else about Mark Driscoll? Is he fundie? Fundie-lite? Conservative?

[Joykins]

He is more an old-school male chauvinist pig megapastor. I don't think he's the QF type--he's more mainstream than that, but he had this video out where he lamented that churches are full of "chicks and dudes that might as well be chicks" and he had the notorious facebook post soliciting stories about "effeminate" worship leaders.

[titus2_4u]

He also said in a recent sermon that women were required by God to perform blowjobs.

http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=11788

He scares me more than the fundies because he has the same warped ideas of sex and gender, but knows how to package it to appeal to the mainstream. That and he wears Ed Hardy.

[Witsec6]

By the way, do a search for Mark Driscoll's photo. Although he is not obese, he could stand to loose a few pounds. What is up with men telling women not to let themselves go when they don't care about their own bodies?

Also, how does he know what type of conversations that pastors have with their wives? Does he ask them?

Does anyone else know anything else about Mark Driscoll? Is he fundie? Fundie-lite? Conservative?

Ugh! Ugh! Ugh! This guy is giving me the creeps and I haven't even heard him speak yet.

Sometimes women gain weight because they're happy. Sometimes women gain weight because they're getting older. Sometimes women gain weight because they're unhappy, overworked, stressed out, unfulfilled, etc. This guy basically accuses all ugly or fat women of being lazy and neglectful of their husbands.

[formergothardite]

Was he the one that said he couldn't worship a Jesus who cared for the sick and needy because that sounds like somebody he could beat up. But instead he worships some form of Jesus that is in the book of Revelation. I swear I think it is him, but it could be one of the other trendy megapastors.

[Witsec6]

OK, this is still bugging me. Even if he wears jeans at the pulpit Mark Driscoll is exactly like Pissing Preacher Anderson. Only he is more dangerous because of how mainstream his image and message seem.

He disregards hundreds of years of biblical exegesis and just makes up his own interpretations of Jesus, Oral Sex, Morality, whatever. He's just a megalomaniac mysogynistic asshole that tens of thousands of people in the Christian community respect!

Edit to clarify my point.

[JennJenn]

He also said in a recent sermon that women were required by God to perform blowjobs.

http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=11788

He scares me more than the fundies because he has the same warped ideas of sex and gender, but knows how to package it to appeal to the mainstream. That and he wears Ed Hardy.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

God requires wives to give blowjobs. OMG!!! Seriously. WTF?!

[debrand]

He also said in a recent sermon that women were required by God to perform blowjobs.

http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=11788

He scares me more than the fundies because he has the same warped ideas of sex and gender, but knows how to package it to appeal to the mainstream. That and he wears Ed Hardy.

This is from the article:

During the sermon, which was entitled “Sex, a Study of the Good Bits from Song of Solomon,†Driscoll interpreted Song of Solomon 2:3 as referring to oral sex and then said, “Men, I am glad to report to you that oral sex is biblical…. The wife performing oral sex on the husband is biblical. God’s men said, Amen. Ladies, your husbands appreciate oral sex. They do. So, serve them, love them well. It’s biblical. Right here. We have a verse. ‘The fruit of her husband is sweet to her taste and she delights to be beneath him.’â€

Driscoll went on to tell an anecdote about a wife who he said won her husband to Christ by performing oral sex on him. Driscoll said he told her that giving him oral sex would be following the admonition of Scripture. A transcript of the sermon quotes Driscoll saying he told her, “1 Peter 3 says if your husband is an unbeliever to serve him with deeds of kindness,†referring to oral sex. Verses 1 and 2 of that chapter, however, tell wives it is their “pure and reverent†conduct that will win their unbelieving husbands.

In response to the idea that the Song of Solomon is an allegory about the relationship between Jesus and the Church, Driscoll said: “If so, it is weird, because Jesus keeps making out with me and touching me in inappropriate places. It’s bizarre, Jesus has his hand up my shirt. That doesn’t help the interpretation in any way. Now I’m gay … or highly troubled … or both.â€

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I notice that his focus is on what the woman gives to the man, not the man performing on the woman. By the way, how did he know that the man became a Christian because of his wife's amazing skills? Did the couple have a conversation with their pastor? How exactly was the subject started?

Couple: Would you like some bread, pastor Driscoll

Driscoll: Yes. Your wife's skill as a baker is amazing

Couple: speaking of amazing skills...

The Song Of Solomon has been interpreted as an allegory about God's love for his people. There are other biblical verses that depict god as a husband to Israel.

Maybe Mark needs to start his own religion because he doesn't seem to like a lot of Christianity.

Seriously, look up his photo on google. It isn't that he is shockingly ugly or obese but he is a soft looking, somewhat doughy guy. I don't see how he could advise women to loose weight when he isn't in great shape.

[ems]

At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am,

He seems to love and really thrive on being controversial and "widely despised." Gotta get those "persecution points"...

I don't have a link to the original article, but I'm pretty sure I read those comments of his before.

[mnb357]

Re: Fellatio being Biblical

Well, ya' know, I HAVE made my husband call out to God, so maybe he's on to something...

(Sorry, I just COULD NOT resist.)

[Austin]

As much as I can hate any person, particularly one I've never met, I hate Mark Driscoll. For so many reasons. Debrand, if you've just discovered him, there's lots more out there. He's one of THE biggest assholes on the planet.

[watchdog]

Speaking of Driscoll, have you seen this one?

fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2011/08/driscoll-claims-to-have-specific.html

He sees things.

(Disclaimer: I'm not that "watchdog.")

ETA another version: http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/08/29/ ... n-progress

[Guest Anonymous]

As much as I can hate any person, particularly one I've never met, I hate Mark Driscoll. For so many reasons. Debrand, if you've just discovered him, there's lots more out there. He's one of THE biggest assholes on the planet.

+1

Mark Driscoll is a self-involved, pompous, woman-hating dumbfuck. I am astonished that there are women willing to sit through his bombastic sermonizing. You'd have to tie me up and sedate me to keep me from exiting any place where he was speaking, at full speed and with a slam of the door and a "Fuck you!" on the way out.

[Joykins]

More on the facebook post

http://rachelheldevans.com/mark-driscoll-bully

[Austin]

More on the facebook post

http://rachelheldevans.com/mark-driscoll-bully

I read this awhile back when Internet Monk linked to it. It's a great post and the comments are quite revealing, too.

[Bookworm]

I agree with Austin. He is neck and neck with Michael Pearl in my opinion, with Pearl so far just barely winning. I kind of hope to meet him some day, just so I can ask him how it feels to be a ravening wolf in sheep's clothing.

[kaetrin]

Kelly at GC likes him because he says that God hates everyone.

“You have been told that God is a loving, gracious, merciful, kind, compassionate, wonderful, and good sky fairy who runs a day care in the sky and has a bucket of suckers for everyone because we’re all good people. That is a lie… God looks down and says ‘I hate you, you are my enemy, and I will crush you,’ and we say that is deserved, right and just, and then God says ‘Because of Jesus I will love you and forgive you.’ This is a miracle.â€

generationcedar.com/main/2009/08/my-favorite-mark-driscoll-quotes.html

generationcedar.com/main/2009/08/how-can-a-loving-god-hate-us-in-our-sin.html

Makes me sick.

[treemom]

I thought he was one of the good guys. Clearly he isn't.

[let-them-eat-cake]

I'm shocked to see this as I really liked him but I guess he falls (at least partially) into fundie-ism.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm shocked to see this as I really liked him but I guess he falls (at least partially) into fundie-ism.

I'm curious as to where/how you were exposed to him? (No snark.) I've watched quite a few of his videos and I feel that he comes across as an arrogant jerk in all of them. I get the impression that he feels contempt for his congregation.

What in particular did you like about him?

[ThisOlGirl]

Just by looking at pictures of him, I get the impression that he's a huge douche. If he wasn't a minister, he'd be the guy that dresses too young for his age, still hangs out at all the trendy bars with the 20-somethings, and chases college girls (who also think he's a huge douche).

[let-them-eat-cake]

I'm curious as to where/how you were exposed to him? (No snark.) I've watched quite a few of his videos and I feel that he comes across as an arrogant jerk in all of them. I get the impression that he feels contempt for his congregation.

What in particular did you like about him?

I'm just coming out of a (since only about July actually) weird-ish fundie-ish religion myself (incredibly close to what Lina practices) so I'm still discovering things. I considered this guy one of the more "liberal" pastors I would allows myself to watch (lol). I've been watching him on youtube and listening to sermons on his website for a few years now. I don't remember exactly how I came across it.

But now that I'm out of that mess, I see looking back that even some of his simpler messages I no longer agree with in my new life.

I don't think the jerk radar worked with me because at the time, I was an arrogant jerk too. :/

[Shirley MacLaine]

As much as I can hate any person, particularly one I've never met, I hate Mark Driscoll. For so many reasons. Debrand, if you've just discovered him, there's lots more out there. He's one of THE biggest assholes on the planet.

Word. I've watched a lot of Mark Driscoll videos and I'm to the hate-point where thinking about the shit he says for too long results in low-level weeping (sometimes high-level) for the world, haha. I almost can't think of any one pastorish person who is more belittling to women. And anyone that comes up has already been fellated by Mark Driscoll - like John Piper.

Although I'm still considering paying a visit to Mars Hill now that I live in Seattle.

But it's probably not a good idea because of my rage tears problem.

[Guest Anonymous]

He is a Douche. He blamed Haggards wife for Ted snorting crank off a rent boys bum.Never said squat about how stupid they both were for having unprotected sex without Ted getting tested for STDs.

Oh and to really piss me off he made some nasty comments about Kate Schori when the Episcopals gave her the top hat. (I'm a long time friend of Kates and an atheist).

TBS, that man is a waste of oxygen.