Erika Shupe Miscarriage

[Antimony]

The one thing I can say about Erika is that she is more allowing of fiction than the Maxwells, even though their lives are similar otherwise. There's a picture of Melanie reading a book on the beach on FB, and Erika says in the caption that the book is The Hobbit. At least Erika realises that it's an allegory. And the kids watched the movie "Inside Out" recently.

I really hope "Inside Out" was good for them. Reviews from adults are even stating that it helped them understand their emotions better and I agree. I think it has some emotional insight that might be useful in the emotional mindfuck that is the fundie world.

[bal maiden]

She's replied to those who hand slapped her for limiting her daughters' reading time. I don't even know where to start... Here's her reply... HAPPY SNARKING!:

She also posted a link to a previous blog posts where she explains that the reason she won't let her kids read the Sunday comics is because someone in them built a snow woman instead of a snow man, WTF?

Those poor kids.

"career". :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[mango_fandango]

"career". :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Most people are clever enough to realise that books aren't real life. If she truly thinks that her children will read fiction and believe that that is how real life should be, she is making out that her kids are stupid. And that is horrid.

I have read many, many fiction books during my life. Harry Potter, The Hobbit, countless books. I come away thinking "yeah, that would be nice to live like that". But, I am also well aware of the real world and how that functions. I know that life won't be perfect. So, I think that exposing your kids to the real world will make them much more aware of how life is and that they can read fiction without getting so drawn in and addicted that I will think that that is how life should be. Erika shelters her kids way too much, and they have no awareness of the real world except through their mother's carefully selected filter, and so maybe her reasoning is that when her kids do get exposed to fiction, they will just leap at it and become this desperate addicted person. Erika, you could have avoided all this worry and crazy stuff by exposing your kids to the real world, not necessarily to all the bad stuff that happens but just by letting them go to public school and making friends who aren't exactly like them.

[Feministe9000]

Just read the continuing conversation about her oldest daughters "addiction" to fictional reading:

Madeline Brown I agree with Natalie. I'm not sure I could limit a child who wanted to read. If I objected to the specific type of fiction the child was reading (like if it was just fluff with no substance, although even fluff is fine to an extent as long as it's appropriate) I might try to steer him/her toward something else, but...maybe there's something I misunderstood?I agree completely with the original post about limiting screen time, though. That's something I need to work on myself.

13 hrs

Denise O'Wesney: My heart breaks a little hearing that your older girls are so limited in the amount of non-fiction they are allowed to read. They seem to work so hard to care for your younger kids and clearly they have grown into great young adults (you should be proud!), why begrudge them a hobby that has been proven to be good for brain development, creativity and academic achievement? While reading in general is good for kids, fiction reading has specific benefits that can't be duplicated with non-fiction. I do agree completely with your original post about limiting screen time. I know many people who are addicted to 'screens' and I don't want my daughter growing up the same way.

1 · 3 hrs · Edited

Large Families On Purpose Denise O'Wesney - No, no. This is an over reaction. smile emoticon They read *excellent* books that they *love*. They also read plenty of historical fiction, biographies, practical skills books such as gardening (our 16yo's *favorite* thing to do), drawing development (our 15yo's favorite thing - she wants to be an animator as a "career" prior to children), cosmetology (our 16's passion and what she desires to do prior to children), etc. They just don't read about fairies too much. We're not going to let them turn their brains to mush reading junk books that have 3nd grade vocabularies and plots and the only thing they learn is to expect that all life will be worked out within 200-400 pages, and a completely skewed view of what to expect from romance and marriage and friends. They need Christ-centered real life - with plenty of enjoyment, and self development. And they have many hobbies, we would never detract from that for them. But children/teens also have a human nature that would have them drinking in "dessert" or "junk food" all the time, without guidance as to how they should spend their time to become more useful to Jesus in their lives.

-------Other people commented expressing their disagreement with her, but honestly????? There have been college-level dissertation and master's thesis written on fictional works of literature? how is that"dessert" *smile* :pull-hair: :pull-hair: :pull-hair:

And she then goes on to describe how her daughter's are having a "career" such as cosmetology and graphic animation, before they resign themselves to role of wife and mother in that "season of life" :angry-banghead: :evil-eye: :evil-eye:

Natalie Hudson-Smith Why on earth is career in quotes?

2 hrs

Natalie Hudson-Smith And I don't understand why fiction would be taken away rather than encouraging higher level fiction reading. There is plenty of fiction that is complex, high vocabulary, and even college level that doesn't wrap things up neatly in anyway.

1 · 2 hrs

Large Families On Purpose Natalie Hudson-Smith Because they desire to develop their marketable skills now, however upon marriage and family they plan to devote themselves to that during that season of raising children. So they're not pursuing a career in the sense that some people would think of it.

--------I have followed Erica's blog for long enough now that I shouldn't be surprised by the crazy ignorant bullshit she justifies her views and opinions on but my god she is awful.

Final thought I had while reading this conversation today: Poor Karen and Melanie. Such beautiful and lovely girls. I don't care how much they smile and pretend to be having the time of their LIVES hanging out with and looking after their siblings all day, with nothing but 2 hours of fiction reading on the weekend or a few hours in the garden alone for Karen or a few hours of drawing and quiet time for Melanie, I think that you are wrong Erica, maybe you thought they had an "addiction" to reading fictional stories?!?!

If I was them I would be desperate to lose myself in book after book and fictional worlds that would take me away from my reality for a while.

Since they are so limited on their time to be alone, use electronics, be in the outside world without Erica and Bob's constant presence, i don't blame them for wanting to escape in their own minds! What other outlet or feeling of "freedom" do they have??? NONE.

Shame on you Erica. Your girls seem very loving and talented, good spirited young people, but if it were me and I was your daughter, I don't care how much Jesus and Lord King of Kings and husband and babies you shoved down my throat, i would turn 18 and tell you to go straight to HELL. And never look back. I hope they both have a spark or a fire in them that doesn't go out before they get the chance to leave, before Erica has completely squashed their ambitions, spirit and free-will completely.

also Fuck you Bob, those green smoothies don't seem to be doing anything for your fat ass. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[nickelodeon]

"career"

[Georgiana]

Most people are clever enough to realise that books aren't real life. If she truly thinks that her children will read fiction and believe that that is how real life should be, she is making out that her kids are stupid. And that is horrid.

I have read many, many fiction books during my life. Harry Potter, The Hobbit, countless books. I come away thinking "yeah, that would be nice to live like that". But, I am also well aware of the real world and how that functions. I know that life won't be perfect. So, I think that exposing your kids to the real world will make them much more aware of how life is and that they can read fiction without getting so drawn in and addicted that I will think that that is how life should be. Erika shelters her kids way too much, and they have no awareness of the real world except through their mother's carefully selected filter, and so maybe her reasoning is that when her kids do get exposed to fiction, they will just leap at it and become this desperate addicted person. Erika, you could have avoided all this worry and crazy stuff by exposing your kids to the real world, not necessarily to all the bad stuff that happens but just by letting them go to public school and making friends who aren't exactly like them.

When I was going through a particularly tough and confusing time in my life, it was a work of fiction (Their Eyes Were Watching God) that helped me understand and make sense of it all. Particularly, this quote kept playing in my head:

So Janie waited a bloom time, and a green time and an orange time. But when the pollen again gilded the sun and sifted down on the world she began to stand around the gate and expect things. What things? She didn’t know exactly…The familiar people and things had failed her so she hung over the gate and looked up the road towards way off. She knew now that marriage did not make love. Janie’s first dream was dead, so she became a woman.

Fiction is a way to talk about our shared human experiences without having to tie them to specific lives and experiences. This book (and quote) helped me to understand that confusion and not knowing what you want are NORMAL parts of the transition from girlhood to womanhood. That womanhood is partially defined by suffering and by the death of our easy, perfect, childhood dreams.

Erika, if you think fiction promotes the idea that everything in life will be resolved easily and perfectly in 200-400 pages, perhaps you need to read better fiction.

[DGayle]

Well guys, Erika's posted some article about how kids these days have too much screen-time. Fair enough. But then, in a reply to a question, she posts this:

Feel free to smash your foreheads against your keyboards in disgust. Erika, you are horrible. Reading fiction is ENTIRELY different to watching TV/spending time on a computer/tablet.

Fiction encourages creative thinking. I'm surprised she allows it at all.

[mango_fandango]

Fiction encourages creative thinking. I'm surprised she allows it at all.

Well, they're only gonna be Erika-screened books or stories relating to Christianity in some way. Wonder what she'd think of the Moody books??

[VodouDoll]

Erika, if you think fiction promotes the idea that everything in life will be resolved easily and perfectly in 200-400 pages, perhaps you need to read better fiction.

PREACH.

[Maggie Mae]

A long time ago, when I was a young and naive 18 year old, my mom gave me a book called Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. And I read it. Then I read the next book in the series. I thought they were all right. Being that I had literally nothing else to do, I picked up the third book. And I read the book and I stayed up all night reading that book. Then I had to... wait. For GoF to be published. (It was only a week or so.) During that week, I met a boy.

And that "boy" (who was quite liked by my mom, who I don't think realized he was 26) told me I was stupid for reading fiction. Especially children's fiction.

We broke up almost immediately.

Erica would have liked him, except for the fact that he ended up with a graduates degree in biology and did not believe in God. But other than that, everything he did had a 'point'. A hike was never just a hike. It was a field trip. A movie was never entertainment, it was either something for a class or in another language so he could enhance his skills. I'm all for killing two birds with one stone, but sometimes you just have to stay up all night reading Prisoner of Azkaban. And then sleeping 4 hours and starting over.

[LovelyLuna]

A book worthy of staying up all night to read is such an amazing thing. such good times. :dance:

Damn you Erika.

[VodouDoll]

A long time ago, when I was a young and naive 18 year old, my mom gave me a book called Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. And I read it. Then I read the next book in the series. I thought they were all right. Being that I had literally nothing else to do, I picked up the third book. And I read the book and I stayed up all night reading that book. Then I had to... wait. For GoF to be published. (It was only a week or so.) During that week, I met a boy.

And that "boy" (who was quite liked by my mom, who I don't think realized he was 26) told me I was stupid for reading fiction. Especially children's fiction.

We broke up almost immediately.

Erica would have liked him, except for the fact that he ended up with a graduates degree in biology and did not believe in God. But other than that, everything he did had a 'point'. A hike was never just a hike. It was a field trip. A movie was never entertainment, it was either something for a class or in another language so he could enhance his skills. I'm all for killing two birds with one stone, but sometimes you just have to stay up all night reading Prisoner of Azkaban. And then sleeping 4 hours and starting over.

I had almost the exact same experience! My mom gave me the first Harry Potter when I was 19, and I was like, "Yeah, yeah, it's a children's book, I'm in college and have more important things to do," so I tossed it on the shelf in my dorm room and forgot about it. Every time I talked to her, though, she asked me if I'd read it yet. Finally, one morning before class, I picked it up thinking I'd read the first chapter and be able to get her off my back by saying I tried it out and it wasn't for me.

Well. I read the whole thing, and then went to the Borders just off campus in my pajamas to buy the next two because I couldn't even wait long enough to get dressed. I read those too and when my roommate came home after dinner she said, "Did you seriously skip a whole day of classes to sit in bed and read children's books? Did you even shower today?" I had not. But I told her to read the first chapter tomorrow before she went to class and she rolled her eyes all, "Yeah, yeah, whatever."

I came home the next evening to find her unshowered, still in her jammies, wild-eyed and almost done with Prisoner of Azkaban: "Snape and Sirius shook hands, VodouDoll! THEY SHOOK HANDS!"

Then I had to wait SO LONG for Goblet of Fire, I thought I'd go nuts. And I stayed up all night with friends, reading each book as it came out, stopping after every chapter to discuss, and then making scones and tea as the sun came up. It was so awesome. I feel bad for Erica's kids, that she'd never let them get so excited about a story. They're so, so fun.

[Howl]

I'm actually very relieved that her daughters have interests that will lead to marketable skills and Erika is OK with that. This is so important -- should any of the girls decide to bolt, they will have skills to support themselves, even put themselves through college. It allows choices. It gives real world experience. It also means Erika isn't assuming and pushing for early courtship and marriage.

If a season of marriage and children implodes, these girls will have something going on.

Also somewhat relived that the girls aren't daydreaming of being midwives.

[princessmahina]

Erika must be reading some really terrible fiction if she thinks it's all third grade vocabulary, with everything tied up neatly in a couple hundred pages. She should try some real, grown-up literature. I'd like to see her power through Anna Karenina or Lolita. If I were a Shupe daughter, I would go absolutely nuts buying used books with my babysitting/head band money.

Also, she writes that they're interested in having a "career" before they have children. What if children aren't in God's plan for them? Then what? Many people are infertile. Not everyone is able to pop out nine kids. She should consider reality before she goes teaching her daughters that their worth is tied to the productivity of their womb.

And is she and Bob actually going to pay for Karen to become a cosmetologist? For Melanie to do any formal, higher level education in art? I don't know how things work in Erika's insanity, but my university doesn't accept jellybeans for tuition money. *pout*

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Erika must be reading some really terrible fiction if she thinks it's all third grade vocabulary, with everything tied up neatly in a couple hundred pages.

It may be that the only books she allows the girls to read are very young books-- no sex, no rebellion, no "career" women, no single parents. Or perhaps the girls are "comfort reading." I know I used to do that when I was stressed-- read old favorites from my childhood. Why not allow the girls to read some classics like Austen, Dickens, or Alcott? Those would stretch their vocabularies and there wouldn't be any sex or indeed any "career" women.

I think Howl is right-- I think Erika probably doesn't understand fiction. Some people are too literal, too humorless, too lacking in empathy to "get" fiction, and think it is just a waste of time.

[mango_fandango]

It may be that the only books she allows the girls to read are very young books-- no sex, no rebellion, no "career" women, no single parents. Or perhaps the girls are "comfort reading." I know I used to do that when I was stressed-- read old favorites from my childhood. Why not allow the girls to read some classics like Austen, Dickens, or Alcott? Those would stretch their vocabularies and there wouldn't be any sex or indeed any "career" women.

I think Howl is right-- I think Erika probably doesn't understand fiction. Some people are too literal, too humorless, too lacking in empathy to "get" fiction, and think it is just a waste of time.

Little Women would be right out for them- isn't Jo very feisty and independent? She also chooses her own spouse- a major no no!!

[princessmahina]

Little Women would be right out for them- isn't Jo very feisty and independent? She also chooses her own spouse- a major no no!!

It's okay for Erika to be a Jo, but her daughters have to be Megs and Beths. *beam*

[Queen Of Hearts]

Just read the continuing conversation about her oldest daughters "addiction" to fictional reading:

Can we edit out the names of those who were commenting to Erika? They may not want to show up here via a Google search.

[Feministe9000]

Apologies for that, I was pasting and typing in a fury and forgot about the other names! Won't happen again

[happy atheist]

My son is weird. He's currently reading Ulysses. For fun.

[Tiny Bubbles]

My son is weird. He's currently reading Ulysses. For fun.

Next, The Penelopiad :D

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I had almost the exact same experience! My mom gave me the first Harry Potter when I was 19, and I was like, "Yeah, yeah, it's a children's book, I'm in college and have more important things to do," so I tossed it on the shelf in my dorm room and forgot about it. Every time I talked to her, though, she asked me if I'd read it yet. Finally, one morning before class, I picked it up thinking I'd read the first chapter and be able to get her off my back by saying I tried it out and it wasn't for me.

Well. I read the whole thing, and then went to the Borders just off campus in my pajamas to buy the next two because I couldn't even wait long enough to get dressed. I read those too and when my roommate came home after dinner she said, "Did you seriously skip a whole day of classes to sit in bed and read children's books? Did you even shower today?" I had not. But I told her to read the first chapter tomorrow before she went to class and she rolled her eyes all, "Yeah, yeah, whatever."

I came home the next evening to find her unshowered, still in her jammies, wild-eyed and almost done with Prisoner of Azkaban: "Snape and Sirius shook hands, VodouDoll! THEY SHOOK HANDS!"

Then I had to wait SO LONG for Goblet of Fire, I thought I'd go nuts. And I stayed up all night with friends, reading each book as it came out, stopping after every chapter to discuss, and then making scones and tea as the sun came up. It was so awesome. I feel bad for Erica's kids, that she'd never let them get so excited about a story. They're so, so fun.

How funny - my mom put the first HP book in my suitcase when I was 18 and going to Cambodia for two weeks. So I read it, I remember finishing it in a taxi and looking up like omg I need the second book where will I get it?? I had to wait until the Singapore airport on the return trip and they were sold out!! First thing I did when I got home was go buy book 2 and then I think book 3 was coming out the next week.

[TurtleBelly]

Little Women would be right out for them- isn't Jo very feisty and independent? She also chooses her own spouse- a major no no!!

She also leaves home, unmarried, to pursue a career as a writer with no intentions of marrying (until she happens to meet Professor Baer). Definitely not a suitable role model for the Shupe girls.

[DGayle]

:angry-banghead: Why take away the one joy her older girls are allowed to have? :angry-banghead: Erika sucks.

Is this the screen time post? I can't find the reply about the books. https://www.facebook.com/LargeFamiliesO ... 7787009323 Is she deleting?

[Antimony]

She did delete. Wow. I've never seen her do so before. She usually allows some dissent.