Anna Duggar - Merge

[apandaaries]

Josh McD is very obviously biased pro-Keller so take it on its merits. I saved it as one of several eye-witness accounts of unreality TV filming, not for the Duggar/Keller content. I should point out re. the borrowed wedding dress issue, that this was quite early in the show and the Duggars probably didn't have as much cash to throw around in those days. It was a Keller wedding -- not a Duggar/TLC financed extravaganza.

For me, it's just the automatic expectation that women deserve less than men that bugs me. And if they have tens of thousands to spend on ministry material, why can't get a new dress for their daughter's big day? I do approve of them providing actual food (unlike the TLC-funded Duggar extravaganzas), but not at Anna's expense.

I suppose that does lead to an interesting observation: The Duggars would rather not provide real food for people but have mega-weddings with glamorous brides, whereas the Kellers would prefer to feed folks and fete their guests than have a "superstar" style ceremony.

[Sweet Fellowship]

On the topic of Anna having a meltdown. I think it's sadly possible, but I reckon it'll be Josh who has the meltdown first. There's so much pressure on him to perform but he's clearly ill-prepared in DC.

[madpsych78]

It seems to be a good time to post this again. It is several years old but refers to the Keller family and TLC's editing and control of content. I just happen to have Josh McD's post to TwoP saved for posterity. Josh McD (I don't remember his full name) is very much ExATI. He is married to Anna's sister Rebekkah. This was posted after Josh and Anna's wedding was shown on TLC.

Whether you believe him or not on the Kellers, it is food for discussion. Josh McD does not like TLC.

From TwoP and I think this was 2009, but I didn't save the link or date. He sent the same post to Dwop so you can search there to verify and confirm the date.

Didn't Josh accompany Anna and her dad to a prison ministry in FL for an episode?

[servants-heart]

If we take that comment from Josh McD to be relatively accurate regarding TLC filming and the control they have etc, I wonder if it's changed now? IMO, the portrayal of the Duggars now is far more watered down than it was around the time of Josh and Anna's wedding. That footage of J and A's wedding definitely makes them out to be on the crazy side (the vowing to have as many babies as possible, Pa Keller's interview comments, the sex talk scene which Josh McD mentions above) whereas since then, there's often nothing that reveals the crazy and there's rarely a mention of Jesus or religion. It just seems interesting how the portrayal of the Duggars has changed over time, and whether this is to do with the Duggars themselves changing, or TLC's agenda changing?

[halcionne]

If we take that comment from Josh McD to be relatively accurate regarding TLC filming and the control they have etc, I wonder if it's changed now? IMO, the portrayal of the Duggars now is far more watered down than it was around the time of Josh and Anna's wedding. That footage of J and A's wedding definitely makes them out to be on the crazy side (the vowing to have as many babies as possible, Pa Keller's interview comments, the sex talk scene which Josh McD mentions above) whereas since then, there's often nothing that reveals the crazy and there's rarely a mention of Jesus or religion. It just seems interesting how the portrayal of the Duggars has changed over time, and whether this is to do with the Duggars themselves changing, or TLC's agenda changing?

I think TLC has always been in control, though I tend to forget it often. Reading Josh McDonald's statement always reminds me, and I'm happy to see it reposted, every time it is. The concensus at FJ--if there is one--tends to paint Jim Bob as puppetmaster, but TLC is in charge of what we see on the show. We have strong evidence of artificial plot lines, multiple takes, timeline shuffling and endless examples of editing to conceal Gothardism (once FJers point it out) and more editing to emphasize whatever TLC thinks will pass for entertaining television. As time goes on, and more people read here, they can't get away with things that used to just seem quaint or quirky, eg frumpers, piling into an RV with homemade signs saying "ATI bound," anymore.

[Coco]

That was so interesting. Thank you for posting it again for those of us who had never read it. Based on that it seems like they HAVE TO BE aware and intentionally be a "character" for the cameras. They must have to constantly focus on their church meetings and retreats with leghumpers IRL to stay sane, being that fake. And, constantly remind themselves of the superiority of their chosen path as the One True Way. How else could they come to terms with seeing the contrived side of the show/scripts/re-takes, and how the final product of what's portrayed is so different from what takes place. Just like Jill's character :lol: seemed self-centered in her wedding episode but actually had a sweet talk that TLC didn't show with her grandma and mom before the wedding - it was on the Duggar's own FB page.

So basically it proves they think those of us who watch the show are a bunch of dumb rubes. :lol:

What a ministry - blessing the world with obviously edited and fake exposure to their Awesome Godliness - just a way to make money.

I bet Anna won't crack, but it's got to be a little soul-killing to fool themselves that being a false character that's supposed to be true to real life to the viewers, is totally okay.

[Kelbel]

It's been brought up before that it is very normal to send the spouse off for a nap. They aren't helping anyone by being exhausted.

Not only that, but though I wanted my spouse around and available and obviously present for the birth, I had marathon 40 hour labors, sans meds, and for some reason really only wanted women close to me - esp at transition: my midwife, her assistant and my doula.

[Kelbel]

Maybe TLC can't edit stupid into it, but they can give loose scripts and write plot storylines that will make them stumble. These are people with 1) very little sense of humor or fun, 2) a limited exposure to the world, and 3) religious compulsion to appear superior and serious... and the ignorance just kind of happens by itself. :lol:

Humor and subtlety are a huge part of appearing smart. It's more absorbed than taught. The Duggar clan have so little of it, apparently. Oh well, there was that one time JD joked to his dad "I'll be back". So who knows.

Just think all that we owe of our personalities to the movies we saw growing up, right? I mean, what would we have been without overhearing SNL, M*A*S*H, Johnny Carson, Chevy Chase, the 80's and 90's sitcoms like the Cosby Show, all the great movies like Speilberg's... gosh even re-runs of the Andy Griffith show and I Love Lucy. Everything our parents watched without thinking about "little ears in the cornfield" when we were all little bitty kids. I'm still catching up on what i missed in the 2000's but... the Duggar kids have SO MUCH CATCHING UP to do to even have a hint of a clue. Plus they're learning from JB.

This generation/pop-culture gap was one of my primary concerns with Josh successfully entering the corporate world and interfacing on a less superficial social level. Just think Seinfeld episodes. Just Seinfeld. Josh can't pretend to know what Man Hands are nor what to make of references to The Whisperer. He doesn't even know who Elaine is!

Now add in SNL, big name sitcoms, Jimmy Falllon, The Daily Show, etc.

Do they even know what an Emmy or Oscar is?

And that's just superficial stuff.

[MisUndrstd]

This generation/pop-culture gap was one of my primary concerns with Josh successfully entering the corporate world and interfacing on a less superficial social level. Just think Seinfeld episodes. Just Seinfeld. Josh can't pretend to know what Man Hands are nor what to make of references to The Whisperer. He doesn't even know who Elaine is!

Now add in SNL, big name sitcoms, Jimmy Falllon, The Daily Show, etc.

Do they even know what an Emmy or Oscar is?

And that's just superficial stuff.

I wonder if the Duggar kids are allowed to watch their own show 19KAC and maybe the Bate's show on the internet? I wouldn't think that all television would be off limits, they may not have a television in their home but that doesn't mean that certain TV shows or even movies can't be viewed off the internet. I believe Kirk Cameron movies are allowed and I wonder if Christian based Children's programming or even shows like the 700 Club for the adult children. I think the kids are getting more of an introduction to society then we realize but it is very heavily controlled.

[Coco]

Here are some of the people Josh follows on Twitter:

twitter.com/joshduggar/following

I wonder when he started branching out. Talk about mind blowing to discover everything for the first time. :lol:

[Toothfairy]

He follows Jimmy Kimmel and SNL :pink-shock:

[iknowright]

And Natalie Grant and Kutless...those are Christian bands and not the hymn singing kind....definite no-no's for Gothardites. Either this is a blatant attempt to hide that A) ATI/IBLP teaches that anything except for some types of classical music or hymns are the only kinds of appropriate music(oh Gothard gives lots of details about certain sinful beats or instruments) and make Gothardism appear normalized or B) Josh and Anna are branching out and trying to appear to walk away from Gothardism.

If it is B, it will be a long journey and they will need to find others who have done it and get some real support emotionally and spiritually from the abuse they have suffered under Gothardism.

I still think it most like option A since a goal of Gothardism is to "appear" normal so potential followers wont become suspicious at how restrictive and legalistic and crazy it all is. The Duggars have spent years now trying to hide how involved they are with Gothard (he's been at the weddings, they pretend the girls choose their style of clothing, they hide that they attend and speak at the ATI/IBLP conferences).

Gothard really wants the mainstream evangelicals in his cult because it gives him an appearance of authenticity with his teachings. He knows he can never get the mainstreamers with his false teachings on dress code, music, legalism (he has no idea what the term grace means), marriage and his ideas about women, birth control, etc.... So to have some of his highly visible families (Duggars/Bates) etc...appear to be accepting of some mainstream evangelicals music, books, etc...then it confuses those who watch this family on tv and see all of the "positives"and want to find out more about their life style.

It reminds me of the way L. Ron Hubbard recruited.

Until one of the Duggars or Bates' kids publicly writes a blog or gives an update acknowledging their families' involvement with Gothard and the depth of it and then denouncing ATI, then I really won't believe their showing "signs" of becoming normal.

[ChunkyBarbie]

I can only imagine the huge pushback Josh and Anna would receive if they left Gothard. It would be Hellish. I think they don't have the spine to do it in a big bridge burning way. I think they are most likely to tip toe away into more mainstream, yet very conservative, Christianity, and hoping JB doesn't catch on.

Josh D does not have the cajones that Josh McD has to walk away from Papa Keller's beliefs. Plus Josh McD could, Papa K wasn't his authority. Josh has been trained all his life that he will remain under Daddy's umbrella of authority. Staying under that umbrella has served him very well. I think he is too scared, ill-equiped and lazy to go out on his own. the more children they have the more attractive Jim Bob's umbrella must look.

Hope this makes sense. I have a toddler bouncing off the walls. Sometimes, I do wish I had a Jana.

[SassyPants]

I can only imagine the huge pushback Josh and Anna would receive if they left Gothard. It would be Hellish. I think they don't have the spine to do it in a big bridge burning way. I think they are most likely to tip toe away into more mainstream, yet very conservative, Christianity, and hoping JB doesn't catch on.

Josh D does not have the cajones that Josh McD has to walk away from Papa Keller's beliefs. Plus Josh McD could, Papa K wasn't his authority. Josh has been trained all his life that he will remain under Daddy's umbrella of authority. Staying under that umbrella has served him very well. I think he is too scared, ill-equiped and lazy to go out on his own. the more children they have the more attractive Jim Bob's umbrella must look.

Hope this makes sense. I have a toddler bouncing off the walls. Sometimes, I do wish I had a Jana.[/quote]

You mean so you could safely pee, shower or blow your nose? :lol:

I recently visited and cared for my toddler GD (and will do so again next week)- I had forgotten how tiring toddler care is. They always seem on the verge of killing themselves. I was going to bed at 9PM-

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I would never speculate on the state of other people's marriages because I have known seemingly enamored couples to stun everyone by suddenly getting divorced and seemingly miserable couples astounding their friends and family by staying married.

On the topic of Gothard and ATI however, I do have opinions. I can't imagine they will ever become acceptable to mainstream Evangelicals because of the issue of birth control. Unless they do a complete 180 on being open to all of the blessings bestowed by God, few couples are going to be converted to the teachings of Gothard. We've talked about the financial hardships here on FJ endlessly. The Duggars are-- when it comes right down to it-- a freakishly large family and while that is a selling point for a TV show that is not an inducement to follow their religion. How many people really want 12 or 15 kids?

[sense and nonsense]

I would never speculate on the state of other people's marriages because I have known seemingly enamored couples to stun everyone by suddenly getting divorced and seemingly miserable couples astounding their friends and family by staying married.

On the topic of Gothard and ATI however, I do have opinions. I can't imagine they will ever become acceptable to mainstream Evangelicals because of the issue of birth control. Unless they do a complete 180 on being open to all of the blessings bestowed by God, few couples are going to be converted to the teachings of Gothard. We've talked about the financial hardships here on FJ endlessly. The Duggars are-- when it comes right down to it-- a freakishly large family and while that is a selling point for a TV show that is not an inducement to follow their religion. How many people really want 12 or 15 kids?

So so so important. The leg humpers are 12-16 year olds who know pretty much nothing about kids and parenting, and just like the thought of being part of a large family. The other category is the adults who admire their conservative Christian values, but are done having kids or don't want to consider more despite their admiration for how the Duggar's raise their kids.

In all their photos with fans, the fans are in shorts, tank tops and pants.

Most young fans are probably unaware of Gothard.

They're not promoting the lifestyle in any way, iirc they don't even use the term quiverfull on the show, forget associating themselves with Gothard directly on the show.

[SassyPants]

So so so important. The leg humpers are 12-16 year olds who know pretty much nothing about kids and parenting, and just like the thought of being part of a large family. The other category is the adults who admire their conservative Christian values, but are done having kids or don't want to consider more despite their admiration for how the Duggar's raise their kids.

In all their photos with fans, the fans are in shorts, tank tops and pants.

Most young fans are probably unaware of Gothard.

They're not promoting the lifestyle in any way, iirc they don't even use the term quiverfull on the show, forget associating themselves with Gothard directly on the show.

Anecdotally, my hubs was raised in a devout RC home- lots of siblings, many close in age. One oif his younger siblings was quite young when she married and was PG pretty soon thereafter. She and her hubs spoke of wanting 7 kids. At that time, my hubs and I did not have any children, where married for several years, and where about 6 years older. We ended up having our first baby several months after the sister and her hubs had their first. Quickly, my young SIL changed her tune. Her next child (and last) was born 12 years later [same spouse]. She often talked about how the RCC needed to get its act together in terms of BC, and that when the Pope carries, births, supports and raises a child he can have an opinion on leaving family size up to God.

[Fascinated]

So so so important. The leg humpers are 12-16 year olds who know pretty much nothing about kids and parenting, and just like the thought of being part of a large family. The other category is the adults who admire their conservative Christian values, but are done having kids or don't want to consider more despite their admiration for how the Duggar's raise their kids.

In all their photos with fans, the fans are in shorts, tank tops and pants.

Most young fans are probably unaware of Gothard.

They're not promoting the lifestyle in any way, iirc they don't even use the term quiverfull on the show, forget associating themselves with Gothard directly on the show.

Exactly. Remember the video of the Duggars at a church a couple of weeks ago? The one where JB introduced the kids and mentioned J and D's absence due to D's minor surgery? (Sorry, even if I could find it I don't know how to link stuff.) JB related to the audience how TLC came calling after he lost the 2000 senate race (thanks to Jesus). He clearly stated that they 'allowed' TLC to film the family as long as their faith and its importance in their daily lives be highlighted. So, what happened? We see them praying here and there and they gather for bible time but that's about it. Is this proof that TLC is, in fact, completely in control of the show's content? Many viewers obviously don't have a clue what the Duggars are really about.

[Coco]

Exactly. Remember the video of the Duggars at a church a couple of weeks ago? The one where JB introduced the kids and mentioned J and D's absence due to D's minor surgery? (Sorry, even if I could find it I don't know how to link stuff.) JB related to the audience how TLC came calling after he lost the 2000 senate race (thanks to Jesus). He clearly stated that they 'allowed' TLC to film the family as long as their faith and its importance in their daily lives be highlighted. So, what happened? We see them praying here and there and they gather for bible time but that's about it. Is this proof that TLC is, in fact, completely in control of the show's content? Many viewers obviously don't have a clue what the Duggars are really about.

It means TLC stages fake charity events to keep the stars of their most lucrative show happy and on the air.

[halcionne]

So so so important. The leg humpers are 12-16 year olds who know pretty much nothing about kids and parenting, and just like the thought of being part of a large family. The other category is the adults who admire their conservative Christian values, but are done having kids or don't want to consider more despite their admiration for how the Duggar's raise their kids.

In all their photos with fans, the fans are in shorts, tank tops and pants.

Most young fans are probably unaware of Gothard.

They're not promoting the lifestyle in any way, iirc they don't even use the term quiverfull on the show, forget associating themselves with Gothard directly on the show.

My concern is that the Duggars go on speaking engagements where they peddle the cult, and the speaking engagements have increased turnout due to the show's notoriety. Plus, we know they use Gothard vocabulary words all the time on the show, it just goes over people's heads if they're not aware of Gothardism.

Here's the video Sassy mentioned--I'm pretty good at finding stuff in my browser history.

[bBvideo 560,340:3ci41awc]http://livestream.com/accounts/1340795/events/4022656[/bBvideo]

[servants-heart]

Exactly. Remember the video of the Duggars at a church a couple of weeks ago? The one where JB introduced the kids and mentioned J and D's absence due to D's minor surgery? (Sorry, even if I could find it I don't know how to link stuff.) JB related to the audience how TLC came calling after he lost the 2000 senate race (thanks to Jesus). He clearly stated that they 'allowed' TLC to film the family as long as their faith and its importance in their daily lives be highlighted. So, what happened? We see them praying here and there and they gather for bible time but that's about it. Is this proof that TLC is, in fact, completely in control of the show's content? Many viewers obviously don't have a clue what the Duggars are really about.

Especially compared to older episodes, we rarely see reference to their religion at all these days. An occasional mention of prayer here and there, yes, but I even sometimes get the vibe they deliberately don't mention Jesus that often on their show. When they're speaking at a conference or for any other interview, there's a lot more references to the Lord and loving God etc, but you really don't get that anymore in the actual show, IMO.

[nastyhobbitses]

This generation/pop-culture gap was one of my primary concerns with Josh successfully entering the corporate world and interfacing on a less superficial social level. Just think Seinfeld episodes. Just Seinfeld. Josh can't pretend to know what Man Hands are nor what to make of references to The Whisperer. He doesn't even know who Elaine is!

Now add in SNL, big name sitcoms, Jimmy Falllon, The Daily Show, etc.

Do they even know what an Emmy or Oscar is?

And that's just superficial stuff.

He does follow Jimmy Fallon on Twitter, so I wonder if he watches his show.

[eri]

I went to a weird church once (and asked questions because I'm like that) and they told me that what was referred to as wine was really weak wine, like grape juice, because the fermenting process was different back then. I rolled my eyes.

lol! Someone correct me if I'm incorrect--but didn't the Bronze Age habit of turning beverages alcoholic keep people alive? "Weakly fermented grape juice" sounds like a bacterial cocktail for sickness/death.

[Furbabies]

If she wasn't before, she may be now... what with all the BS out on the internet today.

[gemma]

I'm sure she is now. God help her and the children.