Stanley family - Fundies have children removed

[browncoatslytherin]

There is often a middle approach available. Homebound instruction is materials provided by the public school district, with teachers coming to the home to monitor progress and tutor as needed. Generally it's used with kids who have illnesses or injuries that will keep them out of school for a significant amount of time, but can be used for other reasons.

Also, I know at least in my state, there is a k-12 on-line approved curriculum available., complete with full teacher support. They also provide computers for the children. It's free through the Department of Education. Here's a link:

http://cava.k12.com/how-it-works

ah, thanks, mama mia :)

[DGayle]

oh, i know the logistics of all of a sudden needing to create syllabus' for seven children to homeschool is just slightly ridiculous. my wondering was more of a general question, as i've not heard of foster parents homeschooling before, but didn't know if it would even be possible in the first place.

I know it can happen that some kids in the system are homeschooled for various reasons, but I think it's always with support of the local public school system. There has to be oversight for foster kids, and I don't know of any other way it could work.

[Toothfairy]

In my state it's illegal to homeschool foster kids. They have to attend public or another approved setting. I can't imagine 7 kids being homeschooled by the foster parent who may have a fundie curriculum. The parents might try to push for their curriculum to be used but since the children are in state custody I'm guessing that can be overruled. It will be an adjustment just like anything else. My daughter had to adjust from regular school to homeschool. She got used to it and found ways to cope. I'm sure these kids will get adjusted to their environment it might take time. They may be behind grade level and the school has to work with them to place them all in appropriate classes. At least they're all together which is rare to find a foster home willing to take 7 kids of different ages.

[Coco]

******Huge Disclaimer so I don't get accused of being anti-CPS again******

This has nothing to do with whether CPS should have removed the kids. This applies to any children in foster care -- including the dozens who I made official reports on or contributed to their removal / lack of re-unification through negative progress reports on parents progress.

Ok, see -- NOT anti-CPS, just talking about the kids experience here. This observation comes from a couple decades direct and administrative experience, including for several years, direct work with foster care kids in reunification - including curriculum designed to increase their resiliency for situations just like this.

Some kids either because of their own adaptive personalities, or because they have had truly extremely abusive horrific home lives --or a combination -- will find removal from their home just like you describe. It will be like heaven and a huge wonderful new world and they will find it an amazing experience.

BUT -- most kids, no matter what their awful, neglectful, endangered, dysfunctional, chaotic, abusive environment has been -- will still be incredibly fearful, homesick, overwhelmed and grief stricken. Eventually they will adjust -- but kids don't just magically go from everything they've ever known, and the parents they love, to just embracing an entirely different lifestyle with completely new people. Some will show that overtly, some will be more withdrawn. But it really is generally not perceived as a relief by most kids at first.

That isn't saying that public school isn't great, or the foster parents aren't wonderful people or that they don't have dedicated social workers and ( hopefully soon - CASA workers) . It's nothing against new experiences or the system or any of that. It's just a reality. Kids tend to deeply love their parents - even if from the outside it seems insane.

These kids have a huge, gigantic advantage if they are all together. That will probably make their adjustment to a whole new world a hundred times easier than if they were alone.

Other things that can help are to actually keep the basics as familiar as possible while introducing appealing new things. Finding out what they ate at home and expanding on that. Basically you just don't go from beans ( if that's all they are used to) to pizza -- you put out taco toppings to go with the beans. If they had ramen every day you introduce a real noodle soup. If their environment was incredibly dull and dark you don't need to change the decor of the home -- but purposefully bringing in a zillion bright colors and loud toys can be over stimulating and scary. The same with clothing - buy a few basics that are a similar style if needed - but wait a couple weeks to do any major shopping until they are comfortable enough to say what they want and maybe have expanded their views. And the same goes with school. If possible - and of course often it isn't-- first - ask the kids what they want to do. If they want to start public school by all means get them there ASAP. If not -- start with a home bound program for a month or so while they are adjusting to all the other big changes. Make sure they get out to parks and other community event during that time.

It isn't the same thing as when your kids go with their grandparents to Disneyland. It's a completely unexpected life upheaval that may possibly be permanent.

***AND AGAIN -- this is NOT anti-CPS or anti-removal when necessary -- it's experience watching kids going through the process. It's also why yes, definitely err on the side of caution if their is an imminent risk of harm. But err on the side of services in place with more moderate cases. If these guys were preppers with shades of WACO, definitely remove them.

I admittedly don't have much experience with the fundamentalists /religious extremists and CPS and program compliance. It's not much of a thing in my area. My experience is more with the usual reasons families become involved -- meth, domestic violence, physical or sexual abuse, extreme poverty, severe mental illness, neglect, gang activity, etc. .

And absolutely agree with everything 2xx1xy1jd said above. And will add that at least in my area, in my experience ( and statistically) there is a pretty big unconscious classist racist bias.

i agree, it might be traumatic for them to go through such a sudden change. It just glared how dusty and worn the youtube video made their home seem, and how dull their parents appeared... but maybe they did have some bright things in their life before.

This is the photo from the Patheos post: patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/01/seven-children-removed-from-christian-homeschoolers/

I'm assuming this was after they were removed. Maybe at a visitation? The older kids look happy and excited with backpacks and jeans on. (Maybe some of their new classmates lent them clothes? I really doubt the parents would allow those but i might be wrong.) The younger kids look a little bit rattled.

[shedemei]

I don't think BrownieMama is saying that public school is evil, just that children used to a home school environment will have a hard time adjusting to a classroom setting. I agree. They'll be around tons of other kids, have a teacher who isn't a parent, be immersed in social norms they aren't used to, etc. It's a big change for a child, even a teen.

[DGayle]

In my state it's illegal to homeschool foster kids. They have to attend public or another approved setting. I can't imagine 7 kids being homeschooled by the foster parent who may have a fundie curriculum. The parents might try to push for their curriculum to be used but since the children are in state custody I'm guessing that can be overruled. It will be an adjustment just like anything else. My daughter had to adjust from regular school to homeschool. She got used to it and found ways to cope. I'm sure these kids will get adjusted to their environment it might take time. They may be behind grade level and the school has to work with them to place them all in appropriate classes. At least they're all together which is rare to find a foster home willing to take 7 kids of different ages.

Even for medical reasons? That seems harmful. When I was homeschooled, it was during a period when I was medically too fragile and was on immunosupressants. Putting me in a public school could have killed me. Does your state really outlaw ALL homeschooling? I can't get behind that. There has to be exceptions for extreme situations.

[Mama Mia]

I don't think BrownieMama is saying that public school is evil, just that children used to a home school environment will have a hard time adjusting to a classroom setting. I agree. They'll be around tons of other kids, have a teacher who isn't a parent, be immersed in social norms they aren't used to, etc. It's a big change for a child, even a teen.

I think you put it exactly right. And I think people are tending to think about the adjustment just in terms of switching schooling types - and how they or their children would handle it.

But it is such a major shift when their entire world has been turned upside down that is the bigger issue.

Obviously it would be extremely difficult to have them home schooled ( or go through a public school based home study program) -- I'm amazed they were able to find a family to take them all in the first place!

The mom in that first press release certainly threw up a bunch of red flags. I could understand her being angry. I could understand her being angry at her teens if she thought they were making things up. But what struck me was that she didn't say " I'm angry about what they did, but I just want them home" she said " If they want to go to public school, fine let them stay , but bring my little kids home" The difference in those two thoughts says a lot, to me. Even if I thought my teens were being completely lying, scheming monsters and tearing my family apart -- even if I would be willing to let them live with another relative because they were being too disruptive --- I wouldn't phrase it the way she did.

[eh02]

This press release video with the parents is really, really unsettling. Every time the mom says things like "Hal's not the perfect father" or "if we're guilty of anything, it's loving them too much" it suggests they know physical abuse allegations are going to come out soon and that they're already in defense mode, IMO. I can practically hear it now, "we didn't beat them, we spanked them, it was a last resort because they were out of control..."

The whole situation is just sad. It is definitely true that entering public school suddenly could be traumatizing, especially for such a high profile case. But it's hard not to think that it will be best for them in the long run, too.

And I know it's dangerous to judge people based on the "creep factor," because obviously you can be wrong. But those parents have some straight up soulless eyes. It gave me the chills a couple of times. Every time the mom leaned in to the camera with her crazed, bulging eyes - yikes.

[eh02]

This press release video with the parents is really, really unsettling. Every time the mom says things like "Hal's not the perfect father" or "if we're guilty of anything, it's loving them too much" it suggests they know physical abuse allegations are going to come out soon and that they're already in defense mode, IMO. I can practically hear it now, "we didn't beat them, we spanked them, it was a last resort because they were out of control..."

The whole situation is just sad. It is definitely true that entering public school suddenly could be traumatizing, especially for such a high profile case. But it's hard not to think that it will be best for them in the long run, too.

And I know it's dangerous to judge people based on the "creep factor," because obviously you can be wrong. But those parents have some straight up soulless eyes. It gave me the chills a couple of times. Every time the mom leaned in to the camera with her crazed, bulging eyes - yikes.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Who else besides me won't be surprised if there is plumbing line involved?

[snarkopolis]

Are the warrants public information?[/quote

They can be part of the discovery process for your defense attorney. But if they involve children? Not so much. Any Family Court proceedings involving children is done using the kids' initials and are not public like adult criminal proceedings.

[browncoatslytherin]

Who else besides me won't be surprised if there is plumbing line involved?

*raises hand*

[apple1]

This whole situation is crazy. I feel like I actually need to wear a tin foil hat when reading the support Facebook page. I feel so sad that some seem to be vilifying the teens.

I just watched the new interview with the adult son. He basically says people were genuinely concerned about the welfare of the kids. Also his parents could learn some things from this opportunity. In my opinion he came across as intelligent and worried about his siblings. I am not the best at paraphrasing, so you might want to watch the interview:http://www.arkansasmatters.com/story/d/story/web-extra-theres-more-than-one-side-son-of-stanley/21953/Bx31OC_C3kSuX3jK2uw4wA .

I wanted to watch this, but can't get it to play for me. I get sound, no picture. Not sure why. :(

[Mama Mia]

I noticed in the old family blog that the father has 5 adult children from a previous marriage.

I wonder if any of them are in a position to step up and take care of their siblings?

[Toothfairy]

Even for medical reasons? That seems harmful. When I was homeschooled, it was during a period when I was medically too fragile and was on immunosupressants. Putting me in a public school could have killed me. Does your state really outlaw ALL homeschooling? I can't get behind that. There has to be exceptions for extreme situations.

There's home Instruction. It's for kids who are can't attend school due to surgery, medical, etc. A certified teacher comes in pay for by the state and teaches the child until they can attend regular school again. It's whole lot of paper to get that approved. It's approved on a case to case basis, in extreme circumstances

[gustava]

When I typed in Total Transformation, google autofilled in the word Scam.

What I've found out is it's "free" if you complete a survey within a specific time frame, AND return the product, but you're charged the 1st payment of 3 up front. So basically praise them, then send the stuff back, and they'll refund the 1st payment. And even that hasn't stopped a lot of people from being recharged since it's 3 payments, and they get charged payments 2 and 3.

D'Gayle...You are braver than I. I never did a search because I just knew a hand would reach out through the ether and grab my credit card!

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I noticed that Ben Seewald (the person, not the writer) "liked" the facebook page to bring the kids home.

And that Clay Herrman, a relative we have mentioned before, actually attended the court proceedings. He is a member of the same local tea party group.

[Howl]

I noticed in the old family blog that the father has 5 adult children from a previous marriage. I wonder if any of them are in a position to step up and take care of their siblings?

Well, isn't that interesting! This guy just can't stop making babies. Wonder if the sibling in college who was quoted up thread is from the original family or the second family.

[FJismyheadship]

I think the sibling in college is the eldest of 9. So the other five are from the first marriage.

Updates!

Michelle asked me to share this update with everyone, many have asked how the family is and think this answers the question. Please keep praying we are watching our Amazing God work.

Although we are not allowed to talk, a picture is worth a thousand words and this is a miracle to have had this kind of "departure shot" taken with our children and my sister and her husband after all that happened on Friday (we got to visit with the children after our court appearance.) The picture truly represents how well our visit went and it was answer to prayer how much joy we experience in the mist of all the pain. So while the road ahead is going to be rough, be happy with us for this one brief moment we got to experience with our children on Friday.

The Lord does not have problems only plans. While the wait may seem like forever it is time to trust and wait on Him to work out His perfect will in not only our lives but everyone who has suffered through this whole ordeal, we know that we are not the only ones who are loosing sleep over this. We pray God bless each one who has lifted us up in prayer. And even though there is silence right now that does not mean God is not working behind the scenes smile emoticon So don't stop praying and don't forget to praise Him as well for all the answers to prayer.

Love,

Michelle Stanley

Many of you have posted and talked about Christopher's interview with the press. Please remember he is 19 and an amazing young man, extremely smart, we dearly love him. Some of his views are because he is still young some are because he has different religious views to that of his parents and that shapes his views. At 19 I did not agree with my parents, then once I had my own family I learned many things my parents did were out of love and protection. Michelle has issued a statement she would asked me to post on this topic. Once again thank you for all your prayers and support.

"Regarding the interview with our oldest son on Arkansas Matters Thursday, or any other interview with him as far as that goes, I feel it is unfair for the report to leave out the fact that our son is agnostic and this greatly shapes his opinion on the way we raise our children. That being said we love our son and are understanding of his views."

[Mama Mia]

Well, isn't that interesting! This guy just can't stop making babies. Wonder if the sibling in college who was quoted up thread is from the original family or the second family.

The College age son, and one other young adult, are from the current family. There are an additional five from a previous marriage. The daughter who wrote the blog was talking about her mom announcing the latest baby - and said it would be 14 for her dad and nine for her mom. So it sounds like they have some sort of relationship.

In the picture above, I wonder if that means the kids are staying with that Aunt and Uncle? That would certainly be less traumatic for them.

[Terrie]

Am I the only one kinda creeped out by the fact that they are claiming that their son's agnosticism is the root of his opinions? Good parenting is good parenting. It shouldn't matter what your religious views are. Makes it that much more likely they are using "biblical" discipline with the kids.

[FJismyheadship]

Am I the only one kinda creeped out by the fact that they are claiming that their son's agnosticism is the root of his opinions? Good parenting is good parenting. It shouldn't matter what your religious views are. Makes it that much more likely they are using "biblical" discipline with the kids.

Nope, Im with you on it. I don't know what his spiritual views have to do with what he said, but apparently it matters to all of the supporters.

[freehannie]

So now they have discounted what their teenagers told the police/CPS because they just want to go to public school/are in rebellion as well as their grown son because he is agnostic. The people who reported them are cowards who couldn't approach them. There seems to be a theme of ignoring, disputing, and criticizing anyone who dares to question any of their choices. I can't imagine that CPS will find these 2 easy to work with. I really hope that things work out for these kids.

[gustava]

And asking/letting the sister post on their behalf seems to be violating the court order. Moreover, who ever is holding the boy on her knee might move her hand a bit.

ETA: I don't think the children are with aunt/uncle as she says the photo was taken during a visit after the court appearance.

[FJismyheadship]

And asking/letting the sister post on their behalf seems to be violating the court order. Moreover, who ever is holding the boy on her knee might move her hand a bit.

ETA: I don't think the children are with aunt/uncle as she says the photo was taken during a visit after the court appearance.

That is the mother holding the boy. I noticed the same thing.

The sister isn't posting for them, from what I understand the woman on the page, Kristy, is a family friend.