Stanley family - Fundies have children removed

[BrownieMomma]

But what does it have to do with? If not MMS or barefoot in the snow?

How do we know the govt has not overstepped and violated citizen rights if we are never allowed to know the correct information?

This attitude of secrecy works less and less as technology progresses. If children are going to be removed from their parent's home, be prepared to deal with media and public knowledge - otherwise how are people supposed to know the government is working as intended and protecting citizens instead of operating like the SS?

What's on the warrant?

[browncoatslytherin]

But what does it have to do with? If not MMS or barefoot in the snow?

How do we know the govt has not overstepped and violated citizen rights if we are never allowed to know the correct information?

This attitude of secrecy works less and less as technology progresses. If children are going to be removed from their parent's home, be prepared to deal with media and public knowledge - otherwise how are people supposed to know the government is working as intended and protecting citizens instead of operating like the SS?

What's on the warrant?

there are privacy concerns of the minors, there is nothing that we can do about that. if the parents choose to release information on their own, that is up to them (of course, they can also choose to edit the information they put on social media as they see fit). but just because they can do that doesn't mean that a child's privacy and safety shouldn't be respected by the people who hold that confidentiality. the child's best interests are put ahead of how they look in the media, including social media, because that IS more important.

pulling as many kids as they did no doubt put a not insignificant strain on their local system. i highly doubt they would move to do that - and leave people like the andersons and rodrigues' alone - if religion or "natural remedy" type of shit is the cause. and as far as being barefoot in the snow, again, i highly doubt they're going to put that strain on their system if the kids were out there for the small amount of time the parents are saying they were. if that was the case, they more than likely would have just had a meeting, discussed child safety and the medical dangers of frostbite and hypothermia, make sure there was understanding all around, and closed the file. bing bang boom, one more case off the desk.

[Walking Cat Bed]

I've read too many abusive fundie parent stories to believe that this is JUST about the chemicals, or JUST about the kids running outside barefoot in the snow once or twice. Especially if older children made a report and all children were removed.

I do not believe the story as the parents that the parents are providing, full stop. Even though we aren't being given ALL the details during the investigation, I do not believe that the parents are just home-schooling and very well prepared people who forgot to put a chemical solution away properly. I do not believe there is a huge conspiracy against the parents. Until/unless there is more information provided, I cannot conclude anything beyond that; all I can definitely say right now is that I don't believe the story these particular parents are selling.

[quiversR4hunting]

hmmm, something doesn't quite add up there. cps isn't going to remove a bunch of kids and put that strain on their system just because a couple of teenagers want to go to public school. also, a JUDGE isn't going to sign a warrant without sufficient evidence. i don't see ANYWHERE where she addresses that fact and i doubt she will. this smells of more misleading, mud-slinging bullshit.

I agree with everything you said, browncoatslytherin.

To add to this, She totally doesn't see why they weren't allowed to be with the kids while being questioned. Kids will try and please parents- even when there isn't any abuse. If there is abuse- kids will say what parents want to hear to avoid punishment (abuse). If the teenagers are given back to the parents, I will be worried for their safety because she is totally blaming them.

As to barefoot in the snow- if you look at the new facebook page for support there are pictures on the family on the porch in the cold (jackets on) and all the kids are barefoot. I find that weird. I am always telling my kids to put shoes on to go outside when it's cold (if I need a jacket, they need shoes) and since they are posing for a picture, why wouldn't you tell the kids to slip on some shoes (even slippers) instead of standing on a cold porch? But again, going out barefoot is not a reason for removing a kid. There is way more to this than what can be made public.

[quiversR4hunting]

From the comments section of the Bring The Stanley Kids Home page

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/dinarintel ... uthorities

Oh my God this guy!!! The intro is SO DRAMATIC! It has taken him three minutes to say what could be said in one if he just talked like a normal person.

http://hotspringsdaily.com/2015/01/sher ... ostercare/

Garland County Police say it has nothing to do with the MMS.

To the first bold- I know many Christian Conservatives (not fundie) and they aren't getting threatened with the kids being taken away. Just because you are Christian Conservative doesn't mean you aren't abusing your kids. Some "Good"** families abuse their kids or spouses or both. :pull-hair: **you can replace "good" with white, black, brown, rich, poor, Christian, atheists, Buddhists, worshipers of spaghetti monster, single moms, single dads, etc

To the second bold- I hope organic farms are being searched. They have to follow laws by the USDA, OSHA, etc just like any other food company.

These people make me :angry-banghead:

[FJismyheadship]

One of those articles said that there were seven police and one woman from DHS, That means that it was one of the two workers I am familiar with (there are two women and recently added two men), and I know for an absolute fact they wouldn't take the children away without probable cause. My friends baby that was left in the bath tub? They came, made sure she had food in the house, made sure she had clean house and clothes. They warned her about the dangers of leaving your child in the bathtub, gave her some reading material, and closed the case. She never did it again. I had them called on me when I was in the hospital recovering from my C-Section. I have a vague recollection of seeing her and the police officer. (I wasn't on medication at the time because, hello I was pregnant and then I just had a baby. Someone decided to be an ass about it. Once I was put back on medication, everything was peachy.) Anyway, she came and did a welfare check at my house and I told her that I was running low on formula. She went to Wal-Mart and bought two giant cans of Parents Choice formula and brought it to me. She wrote it off as a work expense, and that was the end of that. She told me if I ever needed anything to give her a call and let her know. She was willing to work with me rather than tear a baby away from her mother. In fact, another time when she was called out because my daughter had an accident and was hurt, I apologized for the clutter in the house she said she would not take a child away unless the house was positively nasty... trash all over the floor, mold on the walls, that kind of thing. She looked over the baby, checked out the house, made sure we had enough food, and went on her way. I even gave her permission to talk to the doctor that checked her out.

I really believe this is about more than the substance or the children being barefoot in the snow for a couple of minutes. Something else was going on, and if the teenage children are the ones who called, or they are the ones who alerted someone who called, then I am positive they had good reason for taking those children.

[Terrie]

But what does it have to do with? If not MMS or barefoot in the snow?

How do we know the govt has not overstepped and violated citizen rights if we are never allowed to know the correct information?

This attitude of secrecy works less and less as technology progresses. If children are going to be removed from their parent's home, be prepared to deal with media and public knowledge - otherwise how are people supposed to know the government is working as intended and protecting citizens instead of operating like the SS?

What's on the warrant?

The problem is that the contradictory information is coming from the parents in this case. While there is a movement to open up CPS cases to the public, right now, child privacy trumps that. There are mixed views on that, as if there are criminal charges, those are public. I happen to be in favor of opening up cases to the public, but as it stands, the question of what was the actual cause of the children being taken can be laid at the feet of the parents' contradictory claims,

[JesusPony]

If it was their own teenage children who reported them, then I would bet any amount of money that there was a lot more behind it than wanting to go to public school.

This. I doubt these kids have many opportunities to speak to adults outside of their family and religious community and they probably dropped some bombs - knowingly or not. The mother is blaming the public school thing (and way to blame the kids for blabbing!), but I wonder if that's a half-truth. Maybe part of the issue is their (lack of) education at home. But that would still not account for taking 7 kids out of the home immediately. The teens had to say something that warranted this drastic measure. Some kind of abuse or neglect. And in fundie families like this, I tend to believe the kids.

[mrs]

Wow, there is diffidently some extreme views on the

Bringthestanleykidshome Facebook page :shock: . They are do in court at 1:30 today. I wonder if there will be any new updates?

I really hope everything works out in the best interest of the children.

[FJismyheadship]

They are now in court. Wonder what's gonna happen

[artdecades]

But what does it have to do with? If not MMS or barefoot in the snow?

How do we know the govt has not overstepped and violated citizen rights if we are never allowed to know the correct information?

This attitude of secrecy works less and less as technology progresses. If children are going to be removed from their parent's home, be prepared to deal with media and public knowledge - otherwise how are people supposed to know the government is working as intended and protecting citizens instead of operating like the SS?

What's on the warrant?

Why is it our business to know? Its one thing to talk about it here, wonder, and make guesses, but in reality what right does anyone have to information regarding legal proceedings of unrelated minor children? You are talking about protecting citizens, but apparently to you that only counts for the accused. The victims are, in my opinion (and that of the law for the most part), who have a right to hold or release this information about themselves. The victims in this case are minor children, and as they are too young to make reasonable choices to release this information, the only right thing to do imo is to err on the side of their privacy.

[quiversR4hunting]

I wonder if the kids have been appointed CASA volunteers.

For those not familiar with CASA - "Court Appointed Special Advocates (CASA) for Children is a network of 951 community-based programs that recruit, train and support citizen-volunteers to advocate for the best interests of abused and neglected children in courtrooms and communities. Volunteer advocates—empowered directly by the courts—offer judges the critical information they need to ensure that each child’s rights and needs are being attended to while in foster care." from casaforchildren.org

Here is the Arkansas CASA website: http://www.arkansascasa.org/

[BrownieMomma]

Why is it our business to know? Its one thing to talk about it here, wonder, and make guesses, but in reality what right does anyone have to information regarding legal proceedings of unrelated minor children? You are talking about protecting citizens, but apparently to you that only counts for the accused. The victims are, in my opinion (and that of the law for the most part), who have a right to hold or release this information about themselves. The victims in this case are minor children, and as they are too young to make reasonable choices to release this information, the only right thing to do imo is to err on the side of their privacy.

We assume the children are victims but we don't actually know. For all we actually do know, someone with more power than the parents just didn't like the parent's choices. We like to assume that a warrant means an impartial judge believes there is something reasonable to be concerned about but there are corrupt judges and judges with agendas.

We need to know the state is justified in going into someone's home and seizing their children. Elsewise, someone might not like you and decide to seize your children.

[mrs]

Just found this:

. Press release from Stanley family.

(I apologize if this has already been posted.)

[FJismyheadship]

So I am listening to the radio interview. The woman feels like her convictions are being torn away. Her children are in public school, next could be VACCINATIONS!!!!!

Apparently last month was when they were called about the snow. WHAT SNOW!? Garland County hasn't had snow since last January! And the person who called claimed the dad slapped one of the kids in the face.

One person in the comments on that page says he saw the affidavit and that there appears to be a history of violence.

This guy is a windbag and likes to hear himself talk.

[mrs]

Ok I listened to the full press release from youtube(

). There were a few things that struck me as odd. Mrs. Stanley, the mother, explains they had been able to see the kids and they discussed the events. Mrs. Stanley says the things the kids said(to DCF?) were not true. The teens were asked what would happen if they (DCF) left them there overnight. She says the teens said they "would pack them up and flee." A child also supposedly said " a matter of fact the van is packed" and"if you leave us here they will pack us up tonight."

[FJismyheadship]

Apparently they keep the camper packed up for when they go camping so its one less thing they have to wrotty about.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... ement-mms/

This says Mr. Stanley is claiming that SWAT was out there, snipers were outside the house, and more snipers two miles up the road.

This article also makes it out like the father was spanking his teenagers. He says that if you have rebellious teens you would understand and spank your kids too!

The mother is a midwife and the father is a pastor... well they home church.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

We assume the children are victims but we don't actually know. For all we actually do know, someone with more power than the parents just didn't like the parent's choices. We like to assume that a warrant means an impartial judge believes there is something reasonable to be concerned about but there are corrupt judges and judges with agendas.

We need to know the state is justified in going into someone's home and seizing their children. Elsewise, someone might not like you and decide to seize your children.

See, I just don't get the paranoia. I'd welcome CPS into my home with open arms because I have nothing to hide. Yeah, shit happens, and rarely a mistake is made and a child is removed from a safe and loving home. But more often, it's the kid in the abusive home who isn't removed before it's too late. I'd rather see an overly cautious system in place for the sake of kids' lives.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Apparently they keep the camper packed up for when they go camping so its one less thing they have to wrotty about.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... ement-mms/

This says Mr. Stanley is claiming that SWAT was out there, snipers were outside the house, and more snipers two miles up the road.

This article also makes it out like the father was spanking his teenagers. He says that if you have rebellious teens you would understand and spank your kids too!

The mother is a midwife and the father is a pastor... well they home church.

And the father is 73, the mother 45 -- nearly a 30-year age difference between them, and depending on how old the adult children (who do not live with the family) are, she may have been a VERY young bride. That makes the situation even creepier.

[browncoatslytherin]

Apparently they keep the camper packed up for when they go camping so its one less thing they have to wrotty about.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn ... ement-mms/

This says Mr. Stanley is claiming that SWAT was out there, snipers were outside the house, and more snipers two miles up the road.

This article also makes it out like the father was spanking his teenagers. He says that if you have rebellious teens you would understand and spank your kids too!

The mother is a midwife and the father is a pastor... well they home church.

swat? really? that seems rather extreme for simply removing children. either he's exaggerating or something else is going on. calling out swat is expensive, i highly, highly doubt it would be done if there was no threat for them to address.

[BrownieMomma]

Saying there is a SWAT team makes him sound like a crazy old crackpot. Is there even a SWAT team in the whole of Arkansas?

[browncoatslytherin]

Saying there is a SWAT team makes him sound like a crazy old crackpot. Is there even a SWAT team in the whole of Arkansas?

yes, they have a swat team, but i sincerely doubt they were called just for removing children from a home with no visible threat from the parents. the more the parents talk, the weirder and more out there they seem to be. i think they're definitely outright lying and/or exaggerating certain things and/or lying by omission. there's just too much weird going on here. conflicting reasons for removal (all coming from the parents, mind you), swat team being called...nope, don't believe a word of it.

eta: i wonder if that's what cps is also secretly hoping will happen, if nothing else than for public validation on what they're doing. of course, if they have evidence, they don't really NEED more (although more is always helpful) but if even the public sees that these people have some screws loose, surely it would help turn the tide from the negative press. i wonder if there is a way to confirm from someone other than the parents if swat was indeed called? and if so, why?

[SnazzyNazzy]

This whole thing is just weird. If the SWAT team was truly there, the only reason I can think of them being there, is that the parents are "those" kind of "preppers". You know the kind that have an entire arsenal stockpiled in their shed, kind of preppers.

[browncoatslytherin]

This whole thing is just weird. If the SWAT team was truly there, the only reason I can think of them being there, is that the parents are "those" kind of "preppers". You know the kind that have an entire arsenal stockpiled in their shed, kind of preppers.

yet, per the parents, they're just about being able to sustain oneself in the event of an emergency.

haha, bull puckey. pull the other one.

[BrownieMomma]

This whole thing is just weird. If the SWAT team was truly there, the only reason I can think of them being there, is that the parents are "those" kind of "preppers". You know the kind that have an entire arsenal stockpiled in their shed, kind of preppers.

Yep. And that certainly is possible that the family could have bucketloads of weapons, and I could see where there could be enough of a concern to call in a SWAT team, especially if the allegations are anything towards the parents saying they'd take out the whole family before they'd let "x event" happen.

Shades of Waco. :shakehead2: