Stanley family - Fundies have children removed

[salex]

I keep thinking the reason they give for having the chemical sounds like utter bullshit.

They say they use a bleach type substance to purify the water from a well to use in the garden. I know a lot of people who irrigate from wells, ponds, streams, etc-- they don't purify the water before it goes on the garden/lawn/field.

[FJismyheadship]

The parents are asking for people to show up to the court date to show their support. Since it is local to me, when they post the court date do you think it would be a bad idea to show up? I would like to see if this is really about MMS or something completely different. On another note, does what happens in the court room stay in there? For instance, if they do go to court and people show up, do all of those people have to keep quiet too?

[salex]

By the way, John Schrader posted about this on his facebook page.

[browncoatslytherin]

Are the warrants public information?

hmmm, that's a good question. i have little legal experience, but my guess would be no, if they contain sensitive information about minors. if they don't, then perhaps they are public information.

[singsingsing]

You can do random checks on someone's police records in the U.S.? Wow. It's hard enough to get access to your own information here, haha. (It's actually not that hard, but seemingly harder than in the States...)

[NotALoserLikeYou]

The mom said they were "preppers, so it's not unusual to have the chemical in the house" - I thought she meant they were keeping it to purify water in case of government collapse or whatever.

[Terrie]

Dark Ants, it' is not "bleach" in the sense of "the stuff that you buy at the supermarket to whiten your clothing" but it is A bleach, which is a broad category.

Per Wikiepedia: "Bleach refers to a number of chemicals which remove colour, whiten or disinfect, often by oxidation."

[quiversR4hunting]

You can do random checks on someone's police records in the U.S.? Wow. It's hard enough to get access to your own information here, haha. (It's actually not that hard, but seemingly harder than in the States...)

Not really. For employment we need to sign a paper to give permission for a background check.

Now if someone is in prison (fed or state) that is a different story. Majority of states have a DOC (department of corrections) website that will give you pictures of offenders and the charges and how long they will be in for, etc. Some states only give a little information. The Fed prison system (BOP) gives a little information- just name and incarceration number and age. So if you want to see Martha Stewart's federal prison record you could: http://www.bop.gov/inmateloc/

As for states just do a search for " DOC inmate search" and if the state has one you can find anyone in prison (use a name like John Smith and I bet you get a hit in every state). With all this being said, these are for convicted felons. Not children, not misdemeanor, etc. Some local counties have jail roster but you would have to know what county in what state the person was arrested, etc.

Some states (Idaho, for example) have state websites where you can see public records. But majority of the information is sealed. You can only see that someone went to court for a divorce or traffic ticket, etc. You can't see the actual paperwork, complaint, motion, etc.

Edit- to clarify- I work in the courts and have to search for people all across the US. Finding great background info isn't easy unless you have some awesome locate tools. And if Ken or cabinetman etc are reading- no I don't care enough to loose my job to try and find you 2 idiots or any other fundies. You all give enough info on your blog to just use google or bing to find you.

[quiversR4hunting]

The parents are asking for people to show up to the court date to show their support. Since it is local to me, when they post the court date do you think it would be a bad idea to show up? I would like to see if this is really about MMS or something completely different. On another note, does what happens in the court room stay in there? For instance, if they do go to court and people show up, do all of those people have to keep quiet too?

The f/b post says it's a closed court hearing. Not surprised since it involves minors. As for going and standing in the courthouse; I doubt very many will get in because of the capacity of the building. In addition, the people in the hallways still need to be respectful and quite as other courthouse business will be going on too. The courthouse could exclude anyone from entering that does not have business with the court. (That has happened in my county on two high profile murder cases.)

[Coco]

I agree the vast majority are in it to help. And most work hard in a really incredibly difficult and stressful job. Seeing horrific things nobody wants to see. But just like there are awful cases of abuse where they obviously dropped the ball and should have pulled the kids years prior -- there really are times when some rash/over zealous/power hungry/biased CPS worker pulls kids without valid cause. Yes, they have oversight, and structured decision trees and the goal is to keep families together and all of that -- but it still comes down in large part to how the Social Worker evaluates the situation.

What I don't understand is why people completely get it that sometimes the police abuse their authority, but think it doesn't happen, or it's one in a million, with CPS. I can think of several times CPS workers behaved in a wildly biased manner just in my own professional life off the top of my head. Of course there are hundreds more where they were just fine and did everything right. They are people, like everyone else.

I don't think most cops are bad cops. I don't think most CPS workers are bad Social Workers. But yeah, some people in those professions are crap at their job. Or just happen to let the stress get to them and snap. Or seriously under or over-react to something that personally triggers them. The only difference between them and , say, a department store manager or waitress in the same situation is that it can be life-altering for other people if they suck at their job, or just seriously fu k up for whatever reason.

I have no idea about this particular family situation. They could have been using the kids as professional guinea pigs for this supplement. Or kept them chained in the basement manufacturing it. Who knows. But I don't get why it's okay to point out cop oversteps on social media --But people should shut up about any perceived injustice by CPS? Or, for that matter, vice versa. Cause it seems a lot of people who denounce CPS entirely think all the cops are great all the time. I just don't get it.

I don't know , it's a disconnect to me.

To the bolded: That is really interesting. It's true we are reluctant to assume CPS will over step their authority without cause, while law enforcement gets flack for just doing their jobs. Maybe one reason is that almost everyone has been pulled over for a minor violation when they may have missed a speed limit change. And (i hope no one will be mad at me for bringing this up lol) but CPS workers and social workers are very often women. Women helping families and children who are hurting or struggling for some reason, usually hardship caused by poverty or being a minority. And it's less typical to see a power-hungry woman in authority versus a man with a napoleon complex. :lol:

We don't usually hear about wealthy kids being taken away, so the thought of CPS taking children immediately makes us think the kids will be rescued from hunger or trauma and their lives will be improved. CPS is trying to help the helpless, while the most common interaction with law enforcement is people who think they've been pulled over wrongfully. I think we give CPS a pass because of the nature of their work, but you're right we should also acknowledge sometimes they might be overzealous because of their own past or just being new to the job.

People who are afraid of mainstream society, afraid of the government or authority, and are living a fringe life do fear CPS and for good reasons. It seems fundies (or extremists' such as the FLDS) fear is a indicator that they may subconsciously know they are harming their children by a fringe lifestyle.

[Mama Mia]

Mama Mia and I have been back and forth on this several times. From my point of view of (former) Protective Services in the trenches and then kicked upstairs to management and training -- it is a shamefully underfunded and incredibly stressful job for which it is extraordinarily hard to retain qualified and trained staff ...

Mama Mia has somewhat agreed with me in the past on the difficulties of CPS work. However, apparently, in her opinion and experience, CPS screws up all the time and intervenes too often. She and I have a fundamental difference going on there, because I err on the side of caution (dead people/children don't float my boat) and she seems to err on the side of parental

Woah! That is a huge misrepresentation of what I said, or believe!

If you go back and actually READ what I wrote I said that the vast majority of the time CPS workers are getting it right and are doing their best in a horrible, incredibly stressful job. I said it's like ANY job, where you have some excellent employees, mostly fair to good employees and a few who are awful.

I actually have done co-case management with hundreds ( possibly over a thousand ) CPS cases as a Social Worker in a related service. I also did program oversite and development for various programs providing CPS services and worked on a mind numbing number of committees regarding those services, development of plans and so on.

Again, I think they usually do great. I just don't get this blind acceptance that people here seem to have that they are always right. Any more than I get the blind acceptance some other groups have that the police are always right. And I really, really don't get why the same people who think that CPS is always right generally will believe any public accounts of police overreach AND , conversely, the same people who think the Cops are always right tend to be completely anti-CPS. It makes zero logical sense to me.

This particular family may be horrible. I don't know. CPS could be very justified. I really, really do not understand how it means I think that CPS is usually wrong if I say I've seen some cases, personally, where they completely fuck up? Especially if I throw in the obligatory disclaimer that OF COURSE they are usually doing their job very well. Also, I have to say, I don't see how acting like they get it right all the time is even believable? Is there any occupation where people get it right all the time - no, of course not.

Also, I don't think, and have said before, that the mistakes that are made - generally just honest mistakes in judgement- are always in erring on too quick of a removal. Just as frequently mistakes , I've personally seen, are made in leaving a child in the home or returning when they shouldn't.

It's like people don't think anyone is capable of critical thinking anymore. Or understanding that there is a huge range in any human experience. Every single situation, idea, event, belief, organization and person has to be 100% good or 100% bad.

And I would throw in actual examples of cases that were seriously messed up by CPS, except for 1) Obviously I can't, unless I changed so many details it was pointless and 2) To be representative I'd need to throw in twenty examples of good outcomes for every one bad judgment call -- and I can't do that either.

Eta: further venting.

[YourGodIsNotMine]

Hal and Michelle Stanley's kids were spotted running barefoot in the snow. CPS removed them after finding a banned mineral in the home. I feel there's more to this story than the Stanleys are letting on.

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/7-child ... 21907.html

[Ofglen]

There's another post here on FJ with a link to an article (yahoo... aye) that says CPS was alerted because an anonymous caller (i'm guessing a neighbor?) saw the kids running around in the snow without shoes on. The mom defended it as saying “it’s like a tradition to briefly run out in the snow barefoot and take a picture of the footprints.†I really doubt that if it was that brief, CPS would have been alerted. According to this article, when the house was searched with a warrant, the MMS was found.

Still betting there's even more to this story...

Here's the link to the Yahoo story, posted today:

www.yahoo.com/parenting/7-children-remo ... 21907.html

and here's the FJ post:

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=24784&p=861952&hilit=stanley#p861952

Edited to break link

[Ofglen]

There's another post on this here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24747

I personally feel like there's definitely something else going on.

[YourGodIsNotMine]

Thanks for the link! Yes, I feel something else is going on too.

[patsymae]

CPS is iffy at best: see youtube.com/watch?v=9ETfgoSmTHI for one example of outright corruption in an entire statewide system.

And then there are all the different standards. In some states it's legal for teachers to hit children, and it's the norm for parents to use belts and paddles on their children. "Ass-whipping" is considered a normal thing and actually an indicator of good parenting. In one cookbook I have about Southern cooking, the author says that he was whipped for not thanking his mother for the meal--he presents this as a good thing: "In our family, manners were taken seriously." Yet in New York State a totally nonabusive mother who lost it once and slapped her teenage daughter was deemed a child abuser and lost her teaching license.

Wish I could offer a solution. It's just a mess.

[patsymae]

"It's like the Amish - they have a very different lifestyle, but they are respected because they do care for their children and they are peaceful."

Maybe not so much: euters.com/article/2013/12/07/us-usa-amish-ohio-idUSBRE9B601W20131207

[GiGi_41]

You can do random checks on someone's police records in the U.S.? Wow. It's hard enough to get access to your own information here, haha. (It's actually not that hard, but seemingly harder than in the States...)

Some states allow you to actually see an outline on the events of the case. It can be criminal or civil. They use initials for the children but if you know the name of the parents you can even see if they are adjudicated as the parent (father and DNA testing) and if the are current on child support.

It's interesting reading.

[GiGi_41]

CPS is iffy at best: see youtube.com/watch?v=9ETfgoSmTHI for one example of outright corruption in an entire statewide system.

You are painting with a broad brush. Having dealt with two different agencies, one private and one county run, I feel that the county system cared more for successful outcomes. The private contractor was more worried about returns because that is what they got their bonus for...return to care didn't count in their number (one word, Florida).

I am still a foster parent and I haven't had a placement in 2 years. I just got back from a meeting and one of the workers said they haven't even had to use their emergency placement homes in months, which was backed up by an emergency home themselves.

So, I think that sometimes CPS might seem like they just want to pull children but really what you are seeing is the one case out of hundred, that uses social media to make the public sympathetic to their cause.

[GiGi_41]

Stupid tapatalk!

[IronicallyMaeve]

"It's like the Amish - they have a very different lifestyle, but they are respected because they do care for their children and they are peaceful."

Maybe not so much: euters.com/article/2013/12/07/us-usa-amish-ohio-idUSBRE9B601W20131207

My antivirus was blocking the page, then I realized it wasn't "Euters" it was "Reuters!" http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/ ... 1W20131207

[FJismyheadship]

OH WOW! There has been an update.

Monday when they told us they would put our children under a "72 hour hold," that terminology was made to sound misleading so you think that it will only be 72 hours. When really it means they have 72 hours to turn in a petition to to the court saying there was a probable cause that our children were in danger. Then the court has 5 business days to deal with it before giving us a day in court. At the probable cause hearing the judge determines if there is a probable cause that our children are in danger and if so then they get to keep the children until it is proven that they are not in danger in a court which will take anywhere from 30 to 90 days. We were told by a JP (Justice of the Peace) that don't be surprised if you don't get your children back before 6 months.

When they told us on the morning of the day they took them, that they were coming at 11:00am to ask questions and check things out, had they done that, they could have solved the whole issue then because we would have been included in the investigation. Instead they choose to serve us with a search warrant to see if there were any "probable" causes for our children to be in danger. The entire time they interviewed the children they never once questioned either Hal or me concerning anything about their safety. We openly expressed our willingness to tolerate their unjust demands and cooperate.

Not until the last fifteen minutes they were here did we find out they were taking them and not one single explanation why. Nothing, zero, no explanation. Not 72 hours later but 92 hours later they finely turned in the report to the court so that we could have access to our allegations. This was at the last seconds of closing time for the weekend which happens to be a 3 day weekend because of the holiday Monday. This made it so we could not be served our papers until at the earliest opening time Tuesday morning. This is deliberate to make it so we have less advantage to prepare ourselves for our defense. The papers show our date and time to be in court and who our court appointed attorney will be. Both very critical info for what we are up against. I called several times up at the Sheriffs office and the paper is just sitting on a desk and they can't give it to us or let us know what the info on it says.

The petition report confirmed our only logical suspicion that our two teens (who have been wanting to go to public school for the whole past year) that sat in the back of the SUV almost the entire time, were part of the reason for our kids being taken from us. The main reason in my opinion was the lack of discernment on their part not to consider all the facts, but just those that gave them a probable cause to believe our children were in danger. The two departments who filed the petitions for DHS for the removal of our children were the State Police and County Sheriff's department. The actual DHS investigators did not file the petition for the removal of our children.

Everyone who knows us and wants to be a witness as to our character as parents and thinks they will be able to show up at the court when we find out, we need a show of hands. Please email or phone us your name, contact info, and relationship to us. The likely hood of you being called to the witness stand will be very slim since the allotment of time available for the hearing will be very limited. Still never the less we need to compile a list of names to hand to the Judge. The more the better. You will then hang around outside the court room for the possibility to be called upon.

For anyone else who knows us and is standing behind our character and want to show support, or even if you don't know us and fill like there has been injustice done in the way they handled our situation (this could be you next) you are welcome to show up to let those inside the court know you are watching to see if this is still America, the land of the free.

For our close friends and relatives that live out of state that feel led to be here, we have vacant rooms now and you are welcome.

Praise the Lord! We just got word a short while ago that the best lawyer we could have hoped for wants to take our case for free! We will be meeting him this afternoon. Prayes really do work and God continues to meet all our needs even in this great trial. And we were just contacted by national media who will be getting back with us.

Keep on praying and thank you for all your prayers and support. God really does hear and answer prayer.

Our court date is tomorrow at the Juvenile Court at 1:30 and we are asking everyone to come out and show your support. If you don't know us, there will be many people there who do and would be glad to tell you what type of parents we are. This isn't about how bad of parents they are trying to prove us to be, this is about showing what kind of power they have to take away all our freedoms to do and live how we choose to do with a clear conscience before our God. We want nothing more but to raise our children for the glory of God and we are learning how hard that is (especially having 4 teenagers at one time.) We love our children and want all this to be over so we can somehow put back at least some of the pieces.

Michelle Stanley

Is she seriously claiming that the teenagers decided to report them because they wanted to go to public school and they wouldn't let them? In that case, is this still about the MMS or is this about something the teens said?

[VVV]

OH WOW! There has been an update.

Is she seriously claiming that the teenagers decided to report them because they wanted to go to public school and they wouldn't let them? In that case, is this still about the MMS or is this about something the teens said?

If it was their own teenage children who reported them, then I would bet any amount of money that there was a lot more behind it than wanting to go to public school.

[browncoatslytherin]

hmmm, something doesn't quite add up there. cps isn't going to remove a bunch of kids and put that strain on their system just because a couple of teenagers want to go to public school. also, a JUDGE isn't going to sign a warrant without sufficient evidence. i don't see ANYWHERE where she addresses that fact and i doubt she will. this smells of more misleading, mud-slinging bullshit.

[FJismyheadship]

From the comments section of the Bring The Stanley Kids Home page

Prayers from Illinois. Just be careful. A mom in Arizona who had her kid's ripped away from her has a trial coming up soon for violating a "gag order". She told her story of how Phoenix Children's Hospital ripped her kid's away. In other cases, supporters are being threatened with losing their kids. And I can guarantee they are watching this page too. Last night in Illinois, a former DCFS worker was talking about the case of Isiah on the new Governor's Facebook page. They are after our kids and are stopping at nothing to get them. If you are a Christian, Conservative household, you are at risk for them taking your kids. So sad and scary. They ALWAYS find something. Powertrips.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/dinarintel ... uthorities

Oh my God this guy!!! The intro is SO DRAMATIC! It has taken him three minutes to say what could be said in one if he just talked like a normal person.

Our government is out of control. Fda shut down a mom blog. Kids taken away from their family. Organic Farms being searched. Children medically kidnapped. Good grief.

How about Dr Bronners and essential oils being regulated by the FDA in hopes of shutting them down. Can't claim Dr B or EO's do anything without getting into trouble

http://hotspringsdaily.com/2015/01/sher ... ostercare/

Garland County Police say it has nothing to do with the MMS.