Stanley family - Fundies have children removed

[SnazzyNazzy]

The parents are anti-government whackadoos. Some not so bright person posting on that facebook page, linked their old, now defunct blog.

Scroll past the annoying rainbow text, to the article from Chuck Baldwin. Your whackadoo senses will tingle.

https://stanleyfamily.wordpress.com/patriotism/.

That article made me think they were some militia/extremist type folks, so I googled and that led me to the Southern Poverty Law Center website, that has all the info all various hate groups, ideological movements, that kind of thing. I clicked through things, and stumbled across the Patriot Movement.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... t-movement

Imagine my "surprise" when I saw Chuck Baldwin, aka the author of the article on the dad's blog.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... ck-baldwin

I just thought it was all very interesting.

[PurpleSheepleEater]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressiv ... schoolers/

Yes, it sounds like the 2 teens are alleging abuse.

[artdecades]

We assume the children are victims but we don't actually know. For all we actually do know, someone with more power than the parents just didn't like the parent's choices. We like to assume that a warrant means an impartial judge believes there is something reasonable to be concerned about but there are corrupt judges and judges with agendas.

We need to know the state is justified in going into someone's home and seizing their children. Elsewise, someone might not like you and decide to seize your children.

The children are alleged victims and the parents are alleged abusers, that is correct. But what you are doing is holding the rights of the alleged abusers over that of the alleged victims. You admit that there is more scrutiny, more chances for public pressure through social media, etc. At the same time, you are inviting even more public scrutiny, comment, and potential harassment to not just these kids, but all potential victims. I know you are some sort of conspiracy theorist who thinks the ebil government wants to force your kids into homeschool and that they should let citizens be (unless they are poor and black, right?), but I will always support the rights of victims over the accused.

[Mama Mia]

The whole social media aspect is always fascinating to me. It's really had a huge impact on, well, everything.

You get such a range of opinions and experiences whether it's Bill Cosby or this family. And some cases go viral while others get zero attention - and it's impossible to tell which one it will be!

Although I will say it tends to be kind of like coverage of missing persons.....the victims - or in this case - the accused who feel victimized ( whether that is accurate or not) that get all the attention almost always seem to have one common trait.....hmmmm,.....what could that be :whistle: :think:

[NotALoserLikeYou]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/01/seven-children-removed-from-christian-homeschoolers/

Yes, it sounds like the 2 teens are alleging abuse.

Interesting. If I were a 14yo girl I wouldn't want my dad "spanking" me either! Or the 16yo boy. The police statement said the allegations were made by 2 residents who knew the family. I wonder if they saw marks on their bodies. And now the parents are blaming the kids for all this.

[Mama Mia]

Interesting. If I were a 14yo girl I wouldn't want my dad "spanking" me either! Or the 16yo boy. The police statement said the allegations were made by 2 residents who knew the family. I wonder if they saw marks on their bodies. And now the parents are blaming the kids for all this.

Does anyone know what the law in that state is regarding corporeal punishment?

It's kind of shocking to me when I read the degree of " discipline" allowed in some states - including it being a-ok for school administrators to hit kids with boards and leave bruises :shock: :evil: . Or that apparently the methods the Pearls advise are somehow legal!

So would this kind of thing be permissible? Or something that's not allowed but generally still accepted? Or way out of bounds for their area?

[FJismyheadship]

I never realized how weird it was to spank a teen until coming here. My dad was a very angry man and spanked well into my teens. But he was also did a lot of mean and hurtful things and could get way out of control. My mom told me one story I didn't remember until she told me. I still don't remember everything but I have vague recollection.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I just read this part in another article, was this in the other articles? I can't keep up.

Court documents, he said, indicate that the 16-year-old boy reported bringing the MMS bottle to a friend’s house and then coughed for several hours after smelling it. But Stanley suspects that the boy may have inhaled a different chemical used for the aquaponics system, and that he used the incident to try to get out of his parents’ homeschooling program.

“The two teenagers, the top two — they wanted to go to public school,†Hal Stanley said. “And of course, we’ve insisted that they have a home-schooled education. But I think they were used.

[eh02]

If those kids are victims of abuse and went to seek help on their own - wow. They are brave. I hope they have every type of support possible right now, because no matter how terrible your situation is at home, it is NOT easy to do what they did.

And it will take a lot to make me believe they did this because they were "upset about being homeschooled." :roll:

[nelliebelle1197]

See, I just don't get the paranoia. I'd welcome CPS into my home with open arms because I have nothing to hide. Yeah, shit happens, and rarely a mistake is made and a child is removed from a safe and loving home. But more often, it's the kid in the abusive home who isn't removed before it's too late. I'd rather see an overly cautious system in place for the sake of kids' lives.

Sounds like someone listens to too much Michael Savage.

[FJSharkJump]

We assume the children are victims but we don't actually know. For all we actually do know, someone with more power than the parents just didn't like the parent's choices. We like to assume that a warrant means an impartial judge believes there is something reasonable to be concerned about but there are corrupt judges and judges with agendas.

We need to know the state is justified in going into someone's home and seizing their children. Elsewise, someone might not like you and decide to seize your children.

What if these kids are being physically or sexually abused? The whole world needs to know that just so you can give your nod of approval to a state agency and pat yourself on the back for being a Vigilant-Citizen-'Muricuh-Jesus-Fuck-Yeah! ? I can't side-eye you enough.

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Sounds like someone listens to too much Michael Savage.

Aww come on now. It's looking like this case (as with the previous cases we've talked about here) - intervention may have been very warranted. BUT it's totally possible to be cautious and skeptical and concerned about the government overstepping their authority without being a right wing NUT BAG.

[eh02]

There is NO WAY around the fact that many details of cases like this have to be kept confidential.

It protects the children AND EVEN CAN PROTECT THE PARENTS. What if a neighbor DID wrongly accuse you of, say, beating your child? What if your spouse beat your child and then said that you did it, not them? You would want that information released to the entire world before they had even decided if you were actually guilty or not? Because once those claims are out there, as we all know, they can never truly be forgotten. Even with a "not guilty."

I know it is hard to trust in the system that is flawed. But if there is anything that should be changed, it's that social workers should have higher pay and smaller case loads. The general public does not need to know every detail of a child's abuse just so they can be their own personal one-man jury. That is not how it works.

[nelliebelle1197]

Sorry, but I have seen too much from this poster not to think something is up. And she won't be back to defend herself with evidence, have a conversation or think critically about something . At least she didn't go after poor black kids and the gays this time.

[nelliebelle1197]

There is NO WAY around the fact that many details of cases like this have to be kept confidential.b

It protects the children AND EVEN CAN PROTECT THE PARENTS. What if a neighbor DID wrongly accuse you of, say, beating your child? What if your spouse beat your child and then said that you did it, not them? You would want that information released to the entire world before they had even decided if you were actually guilty or not? Because once those claims are out there, as we all know, they can never truly be forgotten. Even with a "not guilty."

I know it is hard to trust in the system that is flawed. But if there is anything that should be changed, it's that social workers should have higher pay and smaller case loads. The general public does not need to know every detail of a child's abuse just so they can be their own personal one-man jury. That is not how it works.

I was just about to post the same thought, but will just say thank you for doing it much better than I would have!

[uber frau]

I just read this part in another article, was this in the other articles? I can't keep up.

As someone who is fairly familiar with aquaponics systems,I'm calling bullshit on some of this.

Using strong chemicals is the biggest no-no there is. The whole point is to keep the plants/bio filters and fish (and bacteria) in balance. There's a limited number of things you can throw in there or you'll kill either your fish or your plants or yourself (seeing that most systems are growing food). Or you'll throw the whole system out of whack and kill everything.

[Toothfairy]

I saw some homeschoolers post about this story and how I read that HSLDA is helping bring light to this situation. There's a donation fund somewhere. I this story had more details to it. CPS doesn't take kids for no reason.

[DGayle]

I'm bothered that this case is being turned into a "the poor parents were just homeschooling" case (not here, but other places online). First, no it's not. That's a straw man. And second, when the teens in a household are begging to go to public school, you need to listen.

[quiversR4hunting]

I'm bothered that this case is being turned into a "the poor parents were just homeschooling" case (not here, but other places online). First, no it's not. That's a straw man. And second, when the teens in a household are begging to go to public school, you need to listen.

I'm also bothered that now the people on the news site (arkansashearold) and the f/b page (Bringthestanleykidshome) are saying things like "DHS + disgruntled teenagers = loads of trouble" and ""...the 16-year old son"???! Oh. No. Good grief, bureaucrats don't know how to exercise any common sense! Cripes, anyone with a teenager knows they can get into some drama!" All of these people think that teenagers will just make stuff up to get their way. I think of the Hale/Pilgrim family up in Alaska- what if the Buckinghams didn't believe the kids because of teenage "drama".

Every time the parents speak it make me question what was really going on behind the door. (Jeub family is a good example of what the public sees and what goes on behind closed doors) Typical abusers aren't scary looking people to outsiders that an outsider would look at the abuser and run the other way yelling "abuser!!!". There was a case in my childhood home town of a (formally) beloved township supervisor that was accused by his mistress's daughters of sexual abuse. I know this supervisor, personally. He went to school with older family members, we are distant, distant relatives and he lived about 3 miles away (in the country that is your neighbor). CPS came out and he and the girl's mom said they got in trouble for missing curfew and are just being teenage drama queens. CPS left and closed the report. The daughters reported it again to a teacher (thank God for public school and that the girls trusted this teacher to keep reporting it!) the teacher knew CPS didn't do anything so this time she called 911 and the state police came, investigated, the couple was placed in jail that night. The next day when bail was set it was for over 1/2 million dollars for each of them. Right there, that told me law enforcement had enough evidence to really believe there was abuse. Supporters of the couple came out "no way they could have done it", "teenagers lie", etc. The couple finally took a plea deal and some details came out when they took the deal and the supporters quickly shut up. Each time the Stanley parents yell louder that this is persecution, I think of the former township supervisor from back home and the Hale family. And wonder....

[apple1]

Sorry, but I have seen too much from this poster not to think something is up. And she won't be back to defend herself with evidence, have a conversation or think critically about something . At least she didn't go after poor black kids and the gays this time.

Maybe she's too busy (not) framing her answer to my questions to her on the "breed like rabbits" thread. I'm anxious to find out what teeth have to do with not breeding like rabbits.

[FJismyheadship]

The comments make me sad. Everyone is going on about the rebellious teens and how they lied and how thats all teens do. It makes me sad. Just wait til we find out something serious happened and that it was proven... will they be rebellious teens still making stuff up?

Although since all these people are praying for God's Will to be done, does that mean that if the kids don't go home it isn't God's will??? Is God's Will only what they want?

stanleyfamily.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/liberty-the-pillar-of-americas-greatness-my-first-speech-ever/

Apparently the above is why CPS is after them LMAO!

[BrownieMomma]

Maybe I've missed it but wasn't the court date yesterday? Any outcome that is known?

Personally I doubt any teen really wants to go to high school, although if you've never been maybe you think you do want to go.

I can see where the teens want out from under the parent's thumb, perhaps. If they really called CPS so they could go to school, perhaps they did not think through all the implications, like they would be taken from their home but also their younger siblings would be removed, although it seems odd that all the kids would be removed for educational neglect.

Will be interesting to find out eventually what this was really all about.

Who is Michael Savage?

[VVV]

Maybe I've missed it but wasn't the court date yesterday? Any outcome that is known?

Personally I doubt any teen really wants to go to high school, although if you've never been maybe you think you do want to go.

I can see where the teens want out from under the parent's thumb, perhaps. If they really called CPS so they could go to school, perhaps they did not think through all the implications, like they would be taken from their home but also their younger siblings would be removed, although it seems odd that all the kids would be removed for educational neglect.

Will be interesting to find out eventually what this was really all about.

Who is Michael Savage?

I stopped reading after you said you didn't think that any teens really want to go to high school. Maybe the teens you know don't care about their futures. The teens I know are very happy to go to high school and get an education that prepares them for admission to a good university and a successful, productive adult life.

[2xx1xy1JD]

What if these kids are being physically or sexually abused? The whole world needs to know that just so you can give your nod of approval to a state agency and pat yourself on the back for being a Vigilant-Citizen-'Muricuh-Jesus-Fuck-Yeah! ? I can't side-eye you enough.

I'd argue that the world doesn't need to know the names and identifying details for anyone involved, but that media should have access to proceedings as long as they follow the orders to maintain confidentiality. Court rulings should also be available online, with identifying information removed.

That's how it works in my area. There should be some degree of public accountability, and sometimes cases deal with social policy issues as well. At the same time, privacy is extremely important. If actual abuse is proven, put the abuser on a child abuse registry, but otherwise the families - esp. the children - deserve privacy.

[FJismyheadship]

The case ran 3 1/2 hours long yesterday and had to be rescheduled for 9am

Here is a comment from the eldest son (he is currently out of the house, goes to college) He psoted this in the comments ofthis post.

My greatest sympathy goes out to my parents in this. I am as bothered by anyone at the sudden and unwarned removal of my siblings, and by the lack of communication with both me and my family afterwards by the departments responsible. However, please don't assume you know the whole situation from the content on the internet right now. It upsets me how rash and close-minded some of the comments and reactions to this story are, and how carried away some have been without knowing many real contextual details. This is undoubtedly a cruel situation-- however, DHS was contacted with more allegations than MMS to raise their concern. I'm annoyed by both sides using MMS as the only reason for these events to unfold. From what I have seen, there was a confused mixture of exaggeration/lies and truths in the reports. My parents and the legal agencies involved have a right to privacy in these matters while they are being investigated. Everything could be found to be falsely grounded, or real concerns may be discovered. I live on my own and have my own opinions on the matter, but I would like to have some privacy as well, as I am really not ready to be a character in this story and have a busy enough life keeping up with work and school. I know everyone here is really trying to help my family, but please try to be respectful and balanced in making contact with officials and commenting about the story, or you may end up hurting my parents' case, when it comes to court. Demeanor and maturity will mean a lot then.

Thanks!

Chris, oldest son.

Edit because Holy Shit look at what this other person wrote!

Why aren't people in your community arming themselves and marching down to that sheriff's station demanding all those kids be returned to their parents? This is something We the People need to start doing as a pushback from this unconstitutional militarization of the American police.