Stanley family - Fundies have children removed

[browncoatslytherin]

I find it intriguing that in the "press release" video the mother mentions that they used Total Transformations with their kids but couldn't stick with it because they could not afford the bribes. As far as I know total transformations is not at all religious. This makes me think they must have really really been having issues with behavior in the house, especially to reach out to a secular behavior management program.

hmmm, i'd be interested to know what exactly they deemed behaviour issues that needed to be corrected. going off of my own background, it could really be just about anything.

i don't know too much about "total transformations" but going off of the amazon reviews, it's either totally amazing for parenting or a bogus scam.

[gustava]

Total Transformation advertises on hate radio and offers the product for free! Your lucky day!!!

[SnazzyNazzy]

I am no law expert or anything, but shouldn't their attorney, be telling them to STFU or something? The parents, imo, have already blazed by the "doth protest too much" stage, straight into "no wonder CPS took the kids, these people are facking loons" stage.

[BrownieMomma]

I have heard Total Transformation's ads a lot and I rarely listen to the radio, only in the car and I have short commutes around town. I feel turned off by them because they are always offering it free to the first 30 callers or crap like that. Has the feel of scam all over it. Mainly I listen to the local pop station but sometimes Christian but idk which ones play the ads.

I think I feel a bit better that the parents turned to that instead of the Pearls.

It's good to see some answers and I've only read what's been posted in this thread that he has said but I'm impressed with him.

What a shock, putting those kids in school but I don't see where the govt agency (CPS?) has too much choice right now. But it will lend to the idea that the government will take your kids to put them into public school. Hope the kids do okay with it.

[browncoatslytherin]

What a shock, putting those kids in school but I don't see where the govt agency (CPS?) has too much choice right now. But it will lend to the idea that the government will take your kids to put them into public school. Hope the kids do okay with it.

yeah, i mean, honestly, what else would they do with the kids? it's in the middle of the school year, they can't just not go to school. can foster parents homeschool if they want or if the children want to be? (i honestly am not sure of the regulations regarding that)

that's the kind of logical thing, though, that leghumpers aren't going to think of :angry-banghead:

[Terrie]

I would think that even if homeschooling was allowed be regulations, the kids would need to be evaluated to see where they are at and if they have any special needs, which would almost certainly be done through the public schools.

[BrownieMomma]

Oh I wonder if there might be homebound instruction from the school district? That could be a good compromise, at least temporarily.

I can't stop thinking what a shock to those kids, taken from their home and then to have to go to school. Would all the kids even be together in the same foster home? Did they go to a foster home or some other sort of care situation? I know of some group homes where house parents live-in with about 10 kids in each house but they are not foster parents to those particular kids, I think it is that the kids are in the charge of the organization? Not sure exactly how that works but I knew some house parents about 25 years ago so much may have changed.

Just really really crossing my fingers for a good outcome for the kids. I find myself barely concerned about the parents for some reason.

[VVV]

Oh I wonder if there might be homebound instruction from the school district? That could be a good compromise, at least temporarily.

I can't stop thinking what a shock to those kids, taken from their home and then to have to go to school. Would all the kids even be together in the same foster home? Did they go to a foster home or some other sort of care situation? I know of some group homes where house parents live-in with about 10 kids in each house but they are not foster parents to those particular kids, I think it is that the kids are in the charge of the organization? Not sure exactly how that works but I knew some house parents about 25 years ago so much may have changed.

Just really really crossing my fingers for a good outcome for the kids. I find myself barely concerned about the parents for some reason.

OMG. It is likely that at least two of the children have expressed a desire to be in public school. They are now in public school, along with nearly every other child their age in that area. Public school is not Guantánamo. Please get a grip.

[browncoatslytherin]

OMG. It is likely that at least two of the children have expressed a desire to be in public school. They are now in public school, along with nearly every other child their age in that area. Public school is not Guantánamo. Please get a grip.

well, that whole public school desire did come from the parents only, iirc. and, quite frankly, i'm taking everything they say with a heaping dose of salt. but i do agree, public school is not a terror. and, if they go and decide they don't quite like it, i wonder if there is a homebound learning program or an online charter school available that they would be able to participate in.

[nelliebelle1197]

OMG. It is likely that at least two of the children have expressed a desire to be in public school. They are now in public school, along with nearly every other child their age in that area. Public school is not Guantánamo. Please get a grip.

BrownieMomma is probably afeared they will be exposed to ghetto kids the way her snowflakes were.

[quiversR4hunting]

well, that whole public school desire did come from the parents only, iirc. and, quite frankly, i'm taking everything they say with a heaping dose of salt. but i do agree, public school is not a terror. and, if they go and decide they don't quite like it, i wonder if there is a homebound learning program or an online charter school available that they would be able to participate in.

I think the school will have a harder time with the kids in school rather than the kids having problem in school. The school needs to assess each of the kids and figure out where to put them that takes a lot of time and staff (hubby former principal). Plus Hot Springs is only 35,000 people it's not like they will be plopped into a school with problems like Detroit, Chicago or even a super affluent like Beverly Hills. I think going to public school will be a good opportunity for the kids. I bet the little kids will adjust the fastest to school.

One of the articles stated the kids are together. Can't remember which one and I don't have time right now to look for it. And I agree, everything these parents say I take with a heaping dose of salt.

[singsingsing]

I was a privileged snobby middle class white girl who, at the age of 14, because of health reasons, found herself deposited in an alternative school with a bunch of 'ghetto' kids from rough backgrounds. It was by far one of the best things that's ever happened to me. My perspective changed a lot and it made me a better person.

[quiversR4hunting]

This whole situation is crazy. I feel like I actually need to wear a tin foil hat when reading the support Facebook page. I feel so sad that some seem to be vilifying the teens.

I just watched the new interview with the adult son. He basically says people were genuinely concerned about the welfare of the kids. Also his parents could learn some things from this opportunity. In my opinion he came across as intelligent and worried about his siblings. I am not the best at paraphrasing, so you might want to watch the interview: http://www.arkansasmatters.com/story/d/ ... X3jK2uw4wA .

Very interesting. He is a well spoken young man.

Very quick Summary: He agrees there are some things that may have warranted the removal of the kids and his parents could learn how to be better parents because of this action. He said there are items they are looking at that are legit and others that are embellished. He also is saying everyone needs to chill, 2 sides of the story. He said there are no bad guys. The police, DHS and foster care need to do their job and need to error on the side of safety. He said give them a break, it won't help the issue bad mouthing the authorities. He said all sides (police, dhs, parents) are really trying to do what is best of the kids and that is what needs to be the focus.

Question - are the older 2 kids product of the parents or just the dad? I thought somewhere something was said that she is his second marriage. But no mention if dad is a widow or divorced. If dad is divorced it would be interesting to hear from the ex-wife. But all this info could have been made up by someone too. I dug a little last night trying to find the family makeup but I couldn't. Their old blog doesn't seem to introduce the family like other blogs (unless I missed it).

[BrownieMomma]

I could see where they might like it, or after an adjustment period grow to like it.

But that's a lot of adjustment for a temporary situation. The older kids may very well have wanted to attend school, in fact when I was a homeschooler the yellow bus issue was discussed fairly frequently.

The yellow bus being that in some ways your homeschooled kid might wistfully see the other kids in the neighborhood getting on the bus or might voice a desire to go to school and how to talk to them about it. Never happened to me, but to me that's the same kind of parenting issue as parenting your kids through any other negative type emotion.

Getting derailed... point being, if two teens wanted to go to school I guess they are going now. I wouldn't be as concerned about them, just by the virtue of wanting to go the battle there is half won.

It's the younger kids, how they feel since they've been ripped from their home and if they are just plopped into a classroom. I am not a fan of sink or swim at all. I would like to think someone is working with them, maybe more than one someones but I won't take it as a given.

And to go through all that adjustment, what if they are returned home on Feb 12? Likelihood of the parents keeping the kids in public school?

I can't see homeschooling continuing while in state care, but I could see homebound instruction along with going in for testing and evaluation as certainly the school district might do. Or, maybe not, since this is a temporary situation. Maybe the school district is just going to make temporary accommodations, like toss them in age-appropriate classrooms, since it is not a given that the kids will remain in the school if they go back home any time soon.

[formergothardite]

Elementary schools are not evil places. And since this is a pretty high profile case and the teachers and staff know that the kids come from sheltered backgrounds, I'm guessing they are doing their best to help the children transition into the classroom.

[Coco]

[align=left][/align]I keep thinking how it would just be a major adjustment to go from that dim cold house with dusty bookshelves and fearful old parents in their rocking chair to a warm, bright, noisy schoolroom every day with tons of new friends. They've probably been given new clothes (maybe pants for the girls) and new, warm shoes. Food they've never tried, just guessing they were eating a lot of oatmeal and mushy tasteless crap like beans, and now they get pizza and fries and all that. It's got to be like going to heaven.

[quiversR4hunting]

I could see where they might like it, or after an adjustment period grow to like it.

But that's a lot of adjustment for a temporary situation. The older kids may very well have wanted to attend school, in fact when I was a homeschooler the yellow bus issue was discussed fairly frequently.

The yellow bus being that in some ways your homeschooled kid might wistfully see the other kids in the neighborhood getting on the bus or might voice a desire to go to school and how to talk to them about it. Never happened to me, but to me that's the same kind of parenting issue as parenting your kids through any other negative type emotion.

Getting derailed... point being, if two teens wanted to go to school I guess they are going now. I wouldn't be as concerned about them, just by the virtue of wanting to go the battle there is half won.

It's the younger kids, how they feel since they've been ripped from their home and if they are just plopped into a classroom. I am not a fan of sink or swim at all. I would like to think someone is working with them, maybe more than one someones but I won't take it as a given.

And to go through all that adjustment, what if they are returned home on Feb 12? Likelihood of the parents keeping the kids in public school?

I can't see homeschooling continuing while in state care, but I could see homebound instruction along with going in for testing and evaluation as certainly the school district might do. Or, maybe not, since this is a temporary situation. Maybe the school district is just going to make temporary accommodations, like toss them in age-appropriate classrooms, since it is not a given that the kids will remain in the school if they go back home any time soon.

if it is found the kids have education neglect the parents could be court ordered to have the kids remain in public school or court approved private school.

**not saying the kids were being taken for education neglect - none of us know why the kids were taken into state/county custody.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

I was a privileged snobby middle class white girl who, at the age of 14, because of health reasons, found herself deposited in an alternative school with a bunch of 'ghetto' kids from rough backgrounds. It was by far one of the best things that's ever happened to me. My perspective changed a lot and it made me a better person.

Maybe off topic, but I've always been skeptical of people who had the "best" education but never had to interact with people outside of their economic/racial/etc background. I went to college with a bunch of kids who went to snobby private or elite suburban public schools. They were a little ahead of me in math maybe, but many of them were ignorant as hell.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'm sorry your ex keeps calling CPS. As you have seen, the social workers aren't out to collect babies/kids like baby snatchers. The commenters piss me off too. They are so paranoid! I see a couple people trying to keep up the good fight and say god's will maybe with the kids being taken away, maybe there is abuse, etc. I can't respond, I'll get super pissed and I need to play legos with my middle daughter when I get home from work and read my grad work when all are in bed and watch the very important "Big Bang Theory" and "Mom" :) I'm just going to keep watching it over there. I have seen their likes have increased today (likes doesn't mean everyone agrees with these people).

I don't get the fact some of these posters that are calling and harassing the law enforcement down in Arkansas don't even know the family! I am not going to harass an agency when I have no idea if this family is the new Branch Davidians or Hale family. These people think just because they are "good Christian homeschoolers" they must be great parents. :pull-hair:

I've represented the odd parent who says things like "I'm going to have that worker charged with kidnapping", or who has angry supporters. Usually, one of the first things that I do is tell them to STFU (sometimes in slightly more polite language), because there is no way in hell that being loud and angry can possibly help your case.

I would say that there is a general bias in child protection toward people who present as "nice". Workers can understand concern, anxiety and sadness, but they really don't like angry outbursts or refusals to cooperate. Many cases fall into a gray area between "so horrible that children must be removed ASAP and never see these parents again" and "perfect family that can have the kids back without us ever having to follow up". Being angry will automatically make a worker - and sometimes the judge - wonder if there is a general anger management problem and if the children may be abused by an angry parent. Someone who shows up with friends and family who present well, are reasonably polite and who offer support will be in a better position. The social workers specifically look for potential sources of support for families - could the children be placed with family or friends, or could the child be safely returned to the parent(s) if there was enough community support in place?

Angry supporters do the opposite - they convince child workers that it is impossible to work cooperatively with the family, they make the social workers fear that doing home visits would be impossible, and in some cases, they may even fear that supporters might help parents flee the jurisdiction or keep the kids isolated from potential mandated reporters.

In child protection, I found that cases often tend to be defined by a 1 or 2 line summary. Smiling, supportive family often leads to the "story" that this is a nice family - possibly dealing with one rogue member (the parent) - that can be a warm, safe environment for the child. Difficult family/friends can sometimes lead to a very different "story" of "completely dysfunctional extended family/ toxic environment".

Re kids' adjustment:

Even with the best of intentions, this is often rocky at first. These kids are going to be fearful. They have been raised to fear the outside world. Kids often love even toxic parents, and it would be scary and confusing to suddenly find yourself away from parents. They were suddenly taken into care, so they entered foster care without a lot of preparation. Schools that are halfway through the year would have had them suddenly dumped in. By definition, that's a lot of upheaval in a short time. The kids are likely in a bit of shock, and there will be an adjustment period.

[Mama Mia]

[align=left][/align]I keep thinking how it would just be a major adjustment to go from that dim cold house with dusty bookshelves and fearful old parents in their rocking chair to a warm, bright, noisy schoolroom every day with tons of new friends. They've probably been given new clothes (maybe pants for the girls) and new, warm shoes. Food they've never tried, just guessing they were eating a lot of oatmeal and mushy tasteless crap like beans, and now they get pizza and fries and all that. It's got to be like going to heaven.

******Huge Disclaimer so I don't get accused of being anti-CPS again******

This has nothing to do with whether CPS should have removed the kids. This applies to any children in foster care -- including the dozens who I made official reports on or contributed to their removal / lack of re-unification through negative progress reports on parents progress.

Ok, see -- NOT anti-CPS, just talking about the kids experience here. This observation comes from a couple decades direct and administrative experience, including for several years, direct work with foster care kids in reunification - including curriculum designed to increase their resiliency for situations just like this.

Some kids either because of their own adaptive personalities, or because they have had truly extremely abusive horrific home lives --or a combination -- will find removal from their home just like you describe. It will be like heaven and a huge wonderful new world and they will find it an amazing experience.

BUT -- most kids, no matter what their awful, neglectful, endangered, dysfunctional, chaotic, abusive environment has been -- will still be incredibly fearful, homesick, overwhelmed and grief stricken. Eventually they will adjust -- but kids don't just magically go from everything they've ever known, and the parents they love, to just embracing an entirely different lifestyle with completely new people. Some will show that overtly, some will be more withdrawn. But it really is generally not perceived as a relief by most kids at first.

That isn't saying that public school isn't great, or the foster parents aren't wonderful people or that they don't have dedicated social workers and ( hopefully soon - CASA workers) . It's nothing against new experiences or the system or any of that. It's just a reality. Kids tend to deeply love their parents - even if from the outside it seems insane.

These kids have a huge, gigantic advantage if they are all together. That will probably make their adjustment to a whole new world a hundred times easier than if they were alone.

Other things that can help are to actually keep the basics as familiar as possible while introducing appealing new things. Finding out what they ate at home and expanding on that. Basically you just don't go from beans ( if that's all they are used to) to pizza -- you put out taco toppings to go with the beans. If they had ramen every day you introduce a real noodle soup. If their environment was incredibly dull and dark you don't need to change the decor of the home -- but purposefully bringing in a zillion bright colors and loud toys can be over stimulating and scary. The same with clothing - buy a few basics that are a similar style if needed - but wait a couple weeks to do any major shopping until they are comfortable enough to say what they want and maybe have expanded their views. And the same goes with school. If possible - and of course often it isn't-- first - ask the kids what they want to do. If they want to start public school by all means get them there ASAP. If not -- start with a home bound program for a month or so while they are adjusting to all the other big changes. Make sure they get out to parks and other community event during that time.

It isn't the same thing as when your kids go with their grandparents to Disneyland. It's a completely unexpected life upheaval that may possibly be permanent.

***AND AGAIN -- this is NOT anti-CPS or anti-removal when necessary -- it's experience watching kids going through the process. It's also why yes, definitely err on the side of caution if their is an imminent risk of harm. But err on the side of services in place with more moderate cases. If these guys were preppers with shades of WACO, definitely remove them.

I admittedly don't have much experience with the fundamentalists /religious extremists and CPS and program compliance. It's not much of a thing in my area. My experience is more with the usual reasons families become involved -- meth, domestic violence, physical or sexual abuse, extreme poverty, severe mental illness, neglect, gang activity, etc. .

And absolutely agree with everything 2xx1xy1jd said above. And will add that at least in my area, in my experience ( and statistically) there is a pretty big unconscious classist racist bias.

[DGayle]

hmmm, i'd be interested to know what exactly they deemed behaviour issues that needed to be corrected. going off of my own background, it could really be just about anything.

i don't know too much about "total transformations" but going off of the amazon reviews, it's either totally amazing for parenting or a bogus scam.

When I typed in Total Transformation, google autofilled in the word Scam.

What I've found out is it's "free" if you complete a survey within a specific time frame, AND return the product, but you're charged the 1st payment of 3 up front. So basically praise them, then send the stuff back, and they'll refund the 1st payment. And even that hasn't stopped a lot of people from being recharged since it's 3 payments, and they get charged payments 2 and 3.

[DGayle]

yeah, i mean, honestly, what else would they do with the kids? it's in the middle of the school year, they can't just not go to school. can foster parents homeschool if they want or if the children want to be? (i honestly am not sure of the regulations regarding that)

that's the kind of logical thing, though, that leghumpers aren't going to think of :angry-banghead:

Finding foster parents able to homeschool 7 kids isn't likely to happen more than once a decade. As it is, the kids being in school is the time a lot of fosters have to prepare for the rest of the day, take care of any legal phone calls, and everything else.

But then if kids ARE homeschooled by fosters, what are the fosters supposed to do if it's a bible-centered type the kids were used to? Are the fosters supposed to drag out bibles they may never read or even may not have, and start trying to use it to preach oppression of women and the ebilnesses of teh gaybies?

[browncoatslytherin]

Finding foster parents able to homeschool 7 kids isn't likely to happen more than once a decade. As it is, the kids being in school is the time a lot of fosters have to prepare for the rest of the day, take care of any legal phone calls, and everything else.

But then if kids ARE homeschooled by fosters, what are the fosters supposed to do if it's a bible-centered type the kids were used to? Are the fosters supposed to drag out bibles they may never read or even may not have, and start trying to use it to preach oppression of women and the ebilnesses of teh gaybies?

oh, i know the logistics of all of a sudden needing to create syllabus' for seven children to homeschool is just slightly ridiculous. my wondering was more of a general question, as i've not heard of foster parents homeschooling before, but didn't know if it would even be possible in the first place.

[momof2treasures]

I'm wondering if they are talking about trying total transformation to justify why they turned to spanking. The old "we tried time outs, grounding, and bribing and it didn't work. We had to spank". It sounds stupid to say we can't afford the "bribes". Can't a reward be something non monetary like a privilege?

[Mama Mia]

oh, i know the logistics of all of a sudden needing to create syllabus' for seven children to homeschool is just slightly ridiculous. my wondering was more of a general question, as i've not heard of foster parents homeschooling before, but didn't know if it would even be possible in the first place.

There is often a middle approach available. Homebound instruction is materials provided by the public school district, with teachers coming to the home to monitor progress and tutor as needed. Generally it's used with kids who have illnesses or injuries that will keep them out of school for a significant amount of time, but can be used for other reasons.

Also, I know at least in my state, there is a k-12 on-line approved curriculum available., complete with full teacher support. They also provide computers for the children. It's free through the Department of Education. Here's a link:

http://cava.k12.com/how-it-works