Chaviva's husband can't return to the US for months

[Palimpsest]

It also appeals to another subset: People who do not want to make decisions for themselves. They really do exist. They are far more comfortable in worlds where every moral/ethical/routine decision has already been made for them. I don't think that is the case with Chaviva, I think she is in a very legalistic religious community for the seeming order it gives her life. Other people really don't want the responsibility of thinking for themselves.

Yes, and some are afraid or overwhelmed by the responsibility of thinking for themselves. By following a strictly prescribed path they find security.

[Peas n carrots]

Yes, and some are afraid or overwhelmed by the responsibility of thinking for themselves. By following a strictly prescribed path they find security.

Very good points. She is someone who makes some rather sudden moves in life, and has a hard time finding solid ground beneath her feet. I suppose Orthodox Judaism gives her some kind of foundation in her life, or at least the appearance of it? The only issue is, it really hasn't...it's given her the framework of a home, but not really the foundation she seems to be seeking.

[Mama Mia]

I don't think the only reason someone would turn to a more proscribed wing of religious group would be because they don't want to think for themselves or are in crises. Those are reasons, of course, but certainly not the only ones.

Many of the rituals are just beautiful. And performing the rituals, even ones that might make your life more restricted, seem to be geared to having you think about God ( or whatever entity/entities) in every day life. To remind you every day things are sacred. That's my take on it anyway.

[Soulhuntress]

It also appeals to another subset: People who do not want to make decisions for themselves. They really do exist. They are far more comfortable in worlds where every moral/ethical/routine decision has already been made for them. I don't think that is the case with Chaviva, I think she is in a very legalistic religious community for the seeming order it gives her life. Other people really don't want the responsibility of thinking for themselves.

Or she feels like she has to compete with the image of the perfect Jewish wife/mother or feels like an outsider so she tries to blend in.

[knit1purl1]

Or she feels like she has to compete with the image of the perfect Jewish wife/mother or feels like an outsider so she tries to blend in.

The perfect Jewish wife/mother image is amazingly seductive. I've always been fairly self confident and willing/able to pick my own way (one of the big reasons why I did not go Orthodox, the "always get the advice of your rabbi" attitude completely confounded me) and I very nearly fell for the image too. Thing is, its **just** an image. A person needs enough awareness of the world and their own character to understand that the created image is just that - an image that has very little bearing on reality. From what I've read of Chaviva, I'm not sure she possesses the awareness to understand the difference between reality and image. If you put 10 Orthodox women in a room together, you'd find parts of the perfect image in each one, but not one would posses the full toolbox, so to speak. It would be in the same in any other subset of society. In a group of 10 hippy crunchy types, you'd get parts of the idea evoked by "hippy crunchy" but nobody who does everything. The more self aware people in that group will say "of course I can't do everything; there's not enough time in the day for everything. I have to pick those things that are important to me."

Fundamentalists of all stripes would do well to keep that in mind.

[OkToBeTakei]

I don't think the only reason someone would turn to a more proscribed wing of religious group would be because they don't want to think for themselves or are in crises. Those are reasons, of course, but certainly not the only ones.

Many of the rituals are just beautiful. And performing the rituals, even ones that might make your life more restricted, seem to be geared to having you think about God ( or whatever entity/entities) in every day life. To remind you every day things are sacred. That's my take on it anyway.

Agreed. It's for want of a better phrase or very simplistically. 'A moral compass for life.'

I look at all religion that way. Rituals or not. Beliefs or not it is some form of ritualistic morality. Wether that be by bathing or crossing oneself. It's a deep belief that connects you to something which gives you compass and the direction to live. The problem lies with those who thinks theirs is WAY better than yours :lol:

I wonder though how common religious conversion is per country. I've met very few converts in my demographic. Of any religion. Judaism is not the most common religion and whilst respected, as has been pointed out on this thread do not seek conversion. Is it more accessible or sought after in some countries? The US seems so alien to me with it's shop about religion. No offence intended it just seems that way.

In as much as I have always been fascinated by Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and other religions it was because of the differences. I did not want to convert because I found one so powerful over the other, too easy. I had my moments .....rich and powerful history does that. Ultimately you have to live your own life I believe.

I find any religion puts restriction on freedom ultimately in one form or another, be it yours, mine or others. As long as people realise that, it will all be good. Except it isn't huh?

Head explodes/

[Arete]

Agreed. It's for want of a better phrase or very simplistically. 'A moral compass for life.'

I look at all religion that way. Rituals or not. Beliefs or not it is some form of ritualistic morality. Wether that be by bathing or crossing oneself. It's a deep belief that connects you to something which gives you compass and the direction to live. The problem lies with those who thinks theirs is WAY better than yours :lol:

I wonder though how common religious conversion is per country. I've met very few converts in my demographic. Of any religion. Judaism is not the most common religion and whilst respected, as has been pointed out on this thread do not seek conversion. Is it more accessible or sought after in some countries? The US seems so alien to me with it's shop about religion. No offence intended it just seems that way.

In as much as I have always been fascinated by Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and other religions it was because of the differences. I did not want to convert because I found one so powerful over the other, too easy. I had my moments .....rich and powerful history does that. Ultimately you have to live your own life I believe.

I find any religion puts restriction on freedom ultimately in one form or another, be it yours, mine or others. As long as people realise that, it will all be good. Except it isn't huh?

Head explodes/

MamaMia, I don't think it's the only reason, and agree that rituals can be beautiful and meaningful. But of the people I have seen who operate full throttle in any religion's fundementalists movement, a disproportionate number seem to want the answers figured out for them, and would much rather ask the priest, pastor, rabbi, guru, etc.

OKTBT, I see what you mean. I have always found the acceptance in American society of changing religious traditions...baffling, but I grew up in the European tradition that saw your denomination or religious stream as a core part of your identity for better or worse. So you don't grow up thinking-I don't believe in Eastern Orthodoxy and am more drawn to Episcopalians, therefore I change. You can't change in this mindset bc your particular denomination is seen as part of your cultural identity, not just a religious expression. If you didn't like your religious tradition, you were expected to stop observing, but not change. I think it is somewhat tied up with the class system in Europe: some things are seen as immutable. The US has a far bigger tradition of a person being able to define themselves in whatever way they see fit-there is less obligation to stay on the " team" or "tribe" you are born into.

I do know one thing: if I ever converted to another religion, my European family would consider it nothing less than a betrayal. And I am talking about the considerable agnostic, non observant part of the family.

[GryffindorFTW]

Somewhat off-topic, but did anyone else notice the post shilling for JORD wood watches that went up on Saturday, and is now gone? I thought the tone of the whole post was weird, but I didn't see any problematic comments before it disappeared. I've copied the text below, and have screen shots if anyone is interested.

Saturday, February 14, 2015

Giveaway: Treat Yourself to a JORD Wood Watch!

For some, an important preparation point for Passover goes beyond buying enough wine and getting the right matzah to purchasing something nice -- a new dress, scarf, piece of jewelry, hat -- for the lengthy holiday.

Although it can be a point of contention (I crowdsourced a religious Jewish women's group on Facebook and got some pretty rough responses), in my experience it's a common practice to prep for Passover (or any major Jewish holiday) by doing something special to really ignite the special quality and holiness of the day.

In my world, this usually means buying a special scarf or something similar within my means, but this year, oh this year I got lucky and you have a chance to, as well.

The impressive folks behind the JORD Wood Watches contacted me about a review and a giveaway, and usually I would decline because of relevance to the blog, but I realized that Passover is fewer than 50 days away and people are in prep mode already. That's fewer than two months folks.

Have you even considered what your seder will look like? Have you thought about which haggadah you'll be using?

Well, I'm here so you have the option of kicking back a bit and not having to think about the stressful parts of Passover but being able to focus on something lighter that could bring some light to your holiday.

I requested the Ely - Black JORD Wood Watch, because, well, come on now, it's beautiful. I'd never actually seen, worn, or purchased a wood watch before, because I had no idea it was even a thing. I've been a loyal Swatch wearer for years, but I've been converted. And you know my commitment: I'm honest in my product and book reviews. Outside of receiving the product free, I'm not getting paid for this review.

This watch is light-weight (it's wood after all) but substantial on the wrist. The Ely in black is one of the classiest watches to ever grace my wrists; it's the kind of watch I'll be wearing to The Jewish Experience's Annual Gala Event this month but also will wear day to day to work. The versatility is key -- wood seems simplistic, but the finish and design are what take it up a notch.

So here I am, offering you the chance to win a JORD Wood Watch, which is a $129 value with free shipping. You get to pick out your own watch if you win -- for you, your sweetheart, your kid, you name it.

The giveaway ends on February 28, 2015, so please spread the love and make sure everyone you know who deserves something nice for Passover (or Easter or just because) gets an entry to win.

[LucySnowe]

Somewhat off-topic, but did anyone else notice the post shilling for JORD wood watches that went up on Saturday, and is now gone? I thought the tone of the whole post was weird, but I didn't see any problematic comments before it disappeared. I've copied the text below, and have screen shots if anyone is interested.

Weird. It was there pretty recently - maybe yesterday. I remember thinking the watches were indeed very nice, but the connection to Passover was a stretch.

For some, an important preparation point for Passover goes beyond buying enough wine and getting the right matzah to purchasing something nice -- a new dress, scarf, piece of jewelry, hat -- for the lengthy holiday.

Although it can be a point of contention (I crowdsourced a religious Jewish women's group on Facebook and got some pretty rough responses), in my experience it's a common practice to prep for Passover (or any major Jewish holiday) by doing something special to really ignite the special quality and holiness of the day.

I've never heard of that. Then again, I'm not Orthodox. Has anyone else heard of this?

[meee]

Yup. I can't quote the precise source, but I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the Gemara -- for "Yom Tov" holidays like Succos, Passover, and Shavuos (i.e. not minor holidays like Chanukah) it is a biblical obligation to "rejoice" which means that a man should buy new clothes or jewelry for his wife, meat and wine for himself, and I think it's candy for his children. Of course, because "rejoice" is subjective, and I prefer having money in the bank account to a new piece of jewelry, we don't actually do this most of the time.

[LucySnowe]

Yup. I can't quote the precise source, but I'm pretty sure it's somewhere in the Gemara -- for "Yom Tov" holidays like Succos, Passover, and Shavuos (i.e. not minor holidays like Chanukah) it is a biblical obligation to "rejoice" which means that a man should buy new clothes or jewelry for his wife, meat and wine for himself, and I think it's candy for his children. Of course, because "rejoice" is subjective, and I prefer having money in the bank account to a new piece of jewelry, we don't actually do this most of the time.

Thanks! My husband has learned a lot about Judaism in the last few years and I shall add this to his knowledge. :D

[shedemei]

How does she get this stuff to review and sell? Right now she's giving away a $200 Seder plate that she and her husband seem to have been using. She's really not a high-readership blogger in the grand scheme of things.

The watch post was weird, and really reaching for relevancy.

[LucySnowe]

The watch post was there when I last checked, so either it was put back up or maybe there was a glitch and it just looked like it wasn't there?

They are pretty cool watches, I have to say. But wooden watches might be more appropriate for Tu B'Shevat? :) [the New Year for trees]

[shedemei]

Yeah, it was gone and now back. I was able to find it in Google search results while it was gone and the actual post wasn't there. Also, it was originally posted on the 14th (per quote above) and now its the 19th. She probably just unpublished it for editing.

[Idolatry]

The watch giveaway is still up. And it only has 336 entries right now, so your odds are good!

[LucySnowe]

Update on the immigration situation, which isn’t much of an update, though there's a shout-out to “the trolls and small-minded folks that are tarrying about in online forums obsessing over my life.†Eyeroll.

We're approaching a year in the immigration system and five months with Mr. T overseas. We haven't seen him in over two months, after my in-laws helped fly us to Israel for Asher's first birthday.

Mr. T's been floating between friends' apartments trying to keep busy with work, but unfortunately not seeing or speaking much to iBoy while in Israel. It's sad and breaks my heart that he's so far away from this branch of his family and unable to see his son.

This is sad, but I don't understand why. Obviously there are plenty of details she’s not sharing (which, frankly, is a good thing).

Ash and I are chugging along here in Denver, with the little man in daycare part time a few days a week and me working several part-time jobs trying to make it all work. I was finally able to do the drive back to Nebraska a few weeks ago to visit my dad (although I had to stop mid-way in both directions and grab a hotel because my arm was aching/falling asleep from reaching backwards to comfort the kid and, well, he wouldn't sleep in the car). Dad seems to be doing better, and he looks healthier, too.

And I don’t get this either - maybe she explained it (though I suspect not, given she was vague and handslappy when people asked about this situation on the blog), but if the point of rushing back to the states was to be closer to her father while he was ill, why is she so far away from him? And why stay in Colorado when everything’s fractured anyway?

I've received kind help from local strangers and East Coast strangers, but ultimately all efforts to pull in Senator Michael Bennet's office and Congresswoman Diana DeGette's office have done little to nothing to expedite the process of our case so that the "we have 60 business days to look at your files and tell you that you messed something up and have to start all over again" issue becomes more like a 30 business day or even 45 business day wait period.

Because starting over means going to the back of the line, and it's not as if USCIS actually screwed up here, so I can see why a senator and congresswoman wouldn't take on this particular battle.

The rest is mostly about missing her husband, especially for Passover, and her faith.

[countressrascal]

Update on the immigration situation, which isn’t much of an update, though there's a shout-out to “the trolls and small-minded folks that are tarrying about in online forums obsessing over my life.†Eyeroll.

This is sad, but I don't understand why. Obviously there are plenty of details she’s not sharing (which, frankly, is a good thing).

And I don’t get this either - maybe she explained it (though I suspect not, given she was vague and handslappy when people asked about this situation on the blog), but if the point of rushing back to the states was to be closer to her father while he was ill, why is she so far away from him? And why stay in Colorado when everything’s fractured anyway?

Because starting over means going to the back of the line, and it's not as if USCIS actually screwed up here, so I can see why a senator and congresswoman wouldn't take on this particular battle.

The rest is mostly about missing her husband, especially for Passover, and her faith.

If the Homeland Security get shut down it will take longer for getting the Visa approved. I think part of the issue is that they are trying to get him in on I864 so she needs to prove that she can support him at 125% of the poverty line for a year and if they apply for any type of public assistance they have to pay it back. I don't think her husband has any type of skills that would make him employable, which could also be an issue. I do feel sorry for her regarding this, but they made the choice for him to leave now they have to pay the price.

[LucySnowe]

I don't think her husband has any type of skills that would make him employable, which could also be an issue.

Looks like he's a fully qualified electrician. Don't know how much that means in the US - a lot of professions don't recognize foreign qualifications, so if it couldn't transfer then he'd be in for a difficult time - but he's got something to bring to the table.

Huh, he has a blog as well: middleamericanchasid.com/

[Soulhuntress]

Looks like he's a fully qualified electrician. Don't know how much that means in the US - a lot of professions don't recognize foreign qualifications, so if it couldn't transfer then he'd be in for a difficult time - but he's got something to bring to the table.

Huh, he has a blog as well: middleamericanchasid.com/

Maybe trying to prove he has skills? the question I still have to ask is this: Chabad has lawyers right? they have people immigrating right? then why did these two morons not use community resources before their fiasco occurred?

[FaustianSlip]

I'm not sure her husband is Chabad. I think he might be a Breslover.

[Soulhuntress]

I'm not sure her husband is Chabad. I think he might be a Breslover.

Then that makes less sense: Are they representing the group? If so she has not exactly started off well....

[shedemei]

Her husband is into Breslov, but is probably not a chossid himself. It's not uncommon, especially in Israel, for people who are somewhere between Modern Orthodox and just plain Orthodox to be into Breslov without joining it. Like Chabad, they don't have a living rebbe and have a community of people that read their books and identify with some of their philosophy.

She's been clear that she is not a Breslover and she is definitely not representing them.

See www.kvetchingeditor.com/2015/01/the-na- ... d.html?m=1 (Tapatalk is going to make that a link, not that it really matters since Chaviva is quite aware of FJ and posts here)

"Well," I stammered, "it's in Hebrew. It says ..." and I trailed off with the Hebrew, explaining that it's all about   Rebbe Nachman of Breslov  and that it's my husband's thing.

The fact that I couldn't easily explain the meaning of the Na Nach sticker on the back of my car probably points to an issue. It's always been Mr. T's thing, not mine. He reads   Likutei Moharan , not me. He knows the  petek   inside and out, not me.

[Peas n carrots]

As to her not living in near her parents...there is no Orthodox community I can find in Lincoln and an extremely small one in Omaha. Denver is most likely the closest place with a sizable Orthodox community to her parents.

[Arete]

In terms of his being an electrician in ISR, those skills are likely not immediately transferable in the US because as far as I know, the two countries have different voltage grids.

[nelliebelle1197]

In terms of his being an electrician in ISR, those skills are likely not immediately transferable in the US because as far as I know, the two countries have different voltage grids.

My husband was a master plumber in NZ and only two states wouldn't take his license here, one of them being the one we are in!