Jinger won't run

[antwan]

So our Duggarlings would have all of that to overcome as well as the "sin" of rejecting their parental teachings. Much as I'd offer Josiah, Jinger, or Jana my extra bedroom, it wouldn't be that simple, I'm afraid. The thought of having to "bring up" a near-adult to speed on culture, sociability, and education, makes me cringe. Anything from "how to apply for a job and market your skills" to "how to open a bank account", buy car insurance, shop for one...

But the Amish (clearly MORE fundamental) do it successfully (we lived 15 minutes from the most strict order in the U.S.) It can be done more successfully than what we think "from the outside, looking in." I think it depends a lot on how self-determined one is to break away, and also on what resources they can/can't tap into, once they do so.

EDIT: one noted difference, though, is that the Amish seem to not be as messed up in their heads over leaving fundamentalist religion. They don't tend to abandon faith altogether, once they're on the outside. They just find freedom in choosing HOW to live out their faith. Their struggle is much more about the shunning. For Fundie-heavy breakaways, however, the struggle over how to express one's faith (if at all), moving forward seems to be a huge one.

[SorenaJ]

First time poster, just wanted to say:

Jana, Jinger and Josiah (and Joy too, once you turn 18): If you can make it to the UK, you can stay with me.

[It'sFunToRun]

Not that this is at all helpful, but my two-cents is that it is literally impossible to tell who may or may not run - no matter the ages of the Duggar children. First, there are the cameras (as most people have mentioned). Second, the Duggarlings are all different ages right now and we don't know who any of them will be as actual adults - or if any of them will become what I would call an "actual adult." Last, and most important, we don't know the unmarried Duggar children at all. We really don't know them ... even though we like to think we do or we want to guess things like who will or will not run away from FundieLand forever etc. (I don't mean any of that in bad or condescending ways towards others on this forum so I really hope it doesn't come across that way).

I just think it's incredibly important to remember that each one of the Duggar children are severely brainwashed and part of a huge, very powerful, very scary cult. That is vastly different from how I would guess "most of" the people on this forum grew up and that makes guessing a downright gamble. I do love how some personalities are able to shine through, but even that could be for show purposes only: their behaviors are more scripted than imaginable. Just because one person is the one who is "out going" doesn't mean she or he is that way in "life". Granted, I think Joy is more outgoing than Jana, but that's mostly because this show has been on for so damn long. No matter how anyone behaves, we have to remember that they are brainwashed. That is NOT to say that they cannot escape because I VERY MUCH believe they can escape. I just know that escaping is harder than can be described and, at least in my experience, happens for reasons most people wouldn't/couldn't ever guess. Due to that, only time will tell and time might very well never tell the whole truth. How much "whole truth" does any person want to give about an abusive, brainwashed, traumatic, childhood in a cult ... particularly when the family is looked on so positively by not only fellow cult members, but also large parts of the American public?

I agree with you. Ever since Megan Phelps-Roper escaped, I've learned it's pretty much unguessable who will leave. Still fun to speculate though.

[It'sFunToRun]

I bet that Josh has also gotten some enlightenment working for FRC. I'm sure he's surrounded by many Godly men there (probably even in his church too) who don't have 19 kids and even wear shorts (and so do their wives...and pants too!) yet still faithfully serve the Lord. They would provide a much different role model for him than JB or even Gil Bates or the other patriarchs he's been around for most of his life.

It is a desperate situation when the FRC makes you a more enlightened person.

[It'sFunToRun]

First time poster, just wanted to say:

Jana, Jinger and Josiah (and Joy too, once you turn 18): If you can make it to the UK, you can stay with me.

I notice that no one is offering a place for JD and Joseph. Well they can't stay with me; my apartment is girls only.

[MichellezBangz]

Big, scary cult indeed. This article is fascinating and chilling. This is what the Duggars really stand for:

recoveringgrace.org/2014/09/living-by-principles/

Edited to break the link, but I'm not sure if that's necessary? I doubt Recovering Grace minds

So I guess the Duggars & other Gothard followers decided to overlook the "avoid denim" part of all those weird edicts. :shock:

[FreeHannie!]

Obviously you can't totally predict who will run, but it is fun to speculate because out of 19 kids, surely, there will be at least 1.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

So I guess the Duggars & other Gothard followers decided to overlook the "avoid denim" part of all those weird edicts. :shock:

That, and the part about the husband being the older one in the couple (at least for the Duggars... Princess Smirky Jessa is a year or two older than her lapdog hubby to be, isn't she?)

[FloraKitty35]

It is a desperate situation when the FRC makes you a more enlightened person.

That is pathetic isn't it.

[FloraKitty35]

It is a desperate situation when the FRC makes you a more enlightened person.

That is pathetic isn't it.

[Emme]

I've read a good bit of recovering grace, and I agree that none of us actually knows who will run or what form or timing that will take. I wish I could remember the author of one post who spoke about how difficult it was to go against the mindset of fundamentalism, even a very long time after she (pretty sure it was a she) left the group. Coupled with the isolation, not knowing anyone at all, and the lack of social skills, she found it doubly hard to put herself out there. She had very little cultural knowledge, and couldn't relate to people on a superficial level, either. So our Duggarlings would have all of that to overcome as well as the "sin" of rejecting their parental teachings. Much as I'd offer Josiah, Jinger, or Jana my extra bedroom, it wouldn't be that simple, I'm afraid. The thought of having to "bring up" a near-adult to speed on culture, sociability, and education, makes me cringe. Anything from "how to apply for a job and market your skills" to "how to open a bank account", buy car insurance, shop for one...

I'd do it. Because if you do it for one of them (and maybe even connect them to resources or help create a binder of some sort) they can help other ex-fundies. So worth it. But I have a hunch it might require a team of people because those scars run deep.

[Toothfairy]

I think it's scary to leave a cult. Especially one like gothard. Heck even the Amish let their kids decide if they want to stay or not. I think it's easier said than done. I always thought if one child escapes it would make it bad for the rest because Bob and Michele might even become more harsh with their rules. It's hard to overcome brainwashing. I always use to ask myself when I hear on the news women being kidnapped and raped then had the opportunity to leave why didn't she? Or why didn't an abusive wife leave her husband? Now I know it's harder than it looks. The fear of leaving behind the only life you've known, your parents(even if they're shit) your home and siblings then getting shunned. I think if one leaves and is smart enough they can write a tell all or speak out against their parents for years of abuse. Then make money off the profits.

[Clutched Pearls]

I don't know if it's been said on this thread or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jessa ran. For one, she'll realize that she's far too glamorous for that modest wardrobe business. She'll be married woman after all, and I doubt that her soon to be headship would mind Jessa dressing in a non-modest.

Or her marriage to Ben will make her question her upbringing & education. She's about to marry this 19 year old who doesn't appear equipped to support a family. I'm sure Ben & Jessa will spend the first years of their marriage under Jim Bob's thumb because Ben has a loooot of growing up to do. It may take a while for him to grow up, let alone figure out how to support a family. What young wife wants to be 100% dependent on their parents while waiting on her husband to grow up? What if Jessa has to take the reigns of her household because Ben can't? If anything, Ben and Jessa will realize that their SOTDRT and CollegePlus education have left them woefully unprepared for the real world.

tl;dr: I do think Jessa eventually be a shorts wearing, shoulders bearing fundie-lite who will (hopefully) decide against homeschooling their children.

[BeccaGrim]

i don't think jinger will run, she's channeling her pain through other things (i firmly believe she has an ED) so that she can stay and please her family, towing the party line. it was interesting to me that jinger spoke of jill, saying she was her 'shoulder to cry on' - i would've assumed jessa would've been that person for jinger. they've always seemed pretty close. maybe they don't get along much anymore, now that ben is in the picture. maybe jessa likes to rub it in - we all know she's very smug. maybe jinger knows what a huge mistake binbob is and feels she has no other option but to keep up appearances and keep sweet. i mean, have you ever heard jinger say anything about ben, or interact with him? quite strange, considering jessa and jinger are supposed to be best friends.

i've noticed jana and joy this season have been pretty passive-agressive toward michelle. i wouldn't be surprised if that's why jana is being sent off to DC - same thing happened to anna's sister, and look what happened there... she escaped fundieland.

Anna's sister escaped Fundieland?

[BeccaGrim]

I don't know if it's been said on this thread or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jessa ran. For one, she'll realize that she's far too glamorous for that modest wardrobe business. She'll be married woman after all, and I doubt that her soon to be headship would mind Jessa dressing in a non-modest.

Or her marriage to Ben will make her question her upbringing & education. She's about to marry this 19 year old who doesn't appear equipped to support a family. I'm sure Ben & Jessa will spend the first years of their marriage under Jim Bob's thumb because Ben has a loooot of growing up to do. It may take a while for him to grow up, let alone figure out how to support a family. What young wife wants to be 100% dependent on their parents while waiting on her husband to grow up? What if Jessa has to take the reigns of her household because Ben can't? If anything, Ben and Jessa will realize that their SOTDRT and CollegePlus education have left them woefully unprepared for the real world.

tl;dr: I do think Jessa eventually be a shorts wearing, shoulders bearing fundie-lite who will (hopefully) decide against homeschooling their children.

I've been wondering if this Jessa becoming a midwife thing is because she suddenly realized she has to support Be who is going to be a minister or a public speaker (ha ha) and midwifery is the only career she's allowed to have.

[CorruptionInc.]

I've been wondering if this Jessa becoming a midwife thing is because she suddenly realized she has to support Be who is going to be a minister or a public speaker (ha ha) and midwifery is the only career she's allowed to have.

It could also be because she only talks the talk and doesn't want 20 Children. If Mullet goes "oh when is the next one coming" she can go "I see babies enough, I work with them often, I need a break".

A lot of wishful thinking, but you never know... :think:

[SassyPants]

I've been wondering if this Jessa becoming a midwife thing is because she suddenly realized she has to support Be who is going to be a minister or a public speaker (ha ha) and midwifery is the only career she's allowed to have.

I thought it was to give Jana an accountability partner in the field. Not that I think Jana really wants to continue, but I think even JB realizes that having a nearing 25 adult purposing to do nothing, does not reflect positively on either JB or their family.

*Bonus points for using purposing* :)

[lilith]

The Duggars have announced that it was a typo - Jessa isn't studying midwifery, the article was meant to refer to Jill. It's on Duggar Family Blog, which has acted as a mouthpiece for the family before.

[16strong]

Anna's sister escaped Fundieland?

Two of them (technically), as well as a brother. Rebekah is married with two daughters (and it seems like she uses BC, because it's been several years since she was last pregnant). She's the more conservative of the two that have moved away from fundieism, but wears shorts and short skirts. It is also alleged that her daughters attend school outside the home. Susannah had a daughter out of wedlock. I know Suze used to live with Rebekah and her husband, not sure if she still does. She's one of the least conservative of all the Keller siblings. The brother (allegedly) is estranged from the family for being a poor headship who allowed his wife to convince him to move away, closer to her parents. And he drinks alcohol. The Kellers aren't that great at keeping their kids fundie. They're 3-3 at the moment.

[Toothfairy]

So only 5 more to go for the Kellers. Looks like Anna might be heading away from certain beliefs like NFP and saying she's thankful for the kids she have. Where did the Kellers go wrong. I have no clue why Jana was with Anna and Josh but maybe the Duggars are trying to take advice from the Kellers

[Feberin]

I don't know if it's been said on this thread or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jessa ran. For one, she'll realize that she's far too glamorous for that modest wardrobe business. She'll be married woman after all, and I doubt that her soon to be headship would mind Jessa dressing in a non-modest.

Or her marriage to Ben will make her question her upbringing & education. She's about to marry this 19 year old who doesn't appear equipped to support a family. I'm sure Ben & Jessa will spend the first years of their marriage under Jim Bob's thumb because Ben has a loooot of growing up to do. It may take a while for him to grow up, let alone figure out how to support a family. What young wife wants to be 100% dependent on their parents while waiting on her husband to grow up? What if Jessa has to take the reigns of her household because Ben can't? If anything, Ben and Jessa will realize that their SOTDRT and CollegePlus education have left them woefully unprepared for the real world.

tl;dr: I do think Jessa eventually be a shorts wearing, shoulders bearing fundie-lite who will (hopefully) decide against homeschooling their children.

I could definitely see Jessa sending her kids to a conservative Christian school if they can find a way to afford it.

[pea3]

I could definitely see Jessa sending her kids to a conservative Christian school if they can find a way to afford it.

I honest to god don't feel like Jessa has any skills at all. I don't think she is sympathetic enough to do nursing/ midwifery. She doesn't act like she loves kids, she can't cook, etc etc.

[FreeHannie!]

What's sad is Jessa would have skills if she was in a normal family where 'wife skills' are not the only skills worth possessing. In a family like mine, Jessa would have no doubt found things she's good at, but in her family, she's not a maternal person and she's not a good cook, so she's seen as skill-less. I can't cook other than very very basic things and I'm not a 'kid' person, but I can list a ton of things I'm good at. But in her shoes, I'd be seen as useless because the extent of my cooking is a grilled cheese and I'd really rather not be a buddy.

[calimojo]

why are we assuming she isn't maternal? Has she ever said that?

I think that might be jumping to a big conclusion. And as far as her cooking skills go, Prior to her Courtship, I have seen her cook. It just seems as if since she started courting, that this was part of her story line. Maybe she isn't as good as it as some of the other girls, but she can probably put a few meals on the table. And they do often praise her for her organization skills and the way she manages the laundry/clothing etc.

I guess the real question is whether she wants to do any of that. I can cook, quite well in fact, but it doesn't mean that I really want to do it all that often. Jessa might not want to do those things, but as she has been pretty limited on her choices by her parents she might not realize she has much of a choice.

I think I have also heard it said that she helps with the teaching, especially when Josie was in the hospital. So who knows, maybe that is one of her skills.

What I think is sad is that in her family, for girls, only homemaking skills and childrearing/childbearing are considered valuable for her. She could have some hidden talent that will never be developed, but like Freehannie said, she won't be valued for that.

This is why these girls need to get out from under JB and M, so they can at least get even a part time job and explore what interests them.

[marmalade]

Two of them (technically), as well as a brother. Rebekah is married with two daughters (and it seems like she uses BC, because it's been several years since she was last pregnant). She's the more conservative of the two that have moved away from fundieism, but wears shorts and short skirts. It is also alleged that her daughters attend school outside the home. Susannah had a daughter out of wedlock. I know Suze used to live with Rebekah and her husband, not sure if she still does. She's one of the least conservative of all the Keller siblings. The brother (allegedly) is estranged from the family for being a poor headship who allowed his wife to convince him to move away, closer to her parents. And he drinks alcohol. The Kellers aren't that great at keeping their kids fundie. They're 3-3 at the moment.

Well, we know Prissy and Esther aren't going anywhere. Neither is Anna as long as the TLC checks keep rolling in. As Tony Perkins still loves to point out, he introduces Smugs as "the oldest of 19 children." The Duggars are a Brand; Smugs and Anna will toe the line until the cameras stop rolling. Since Gothard left, many families are lifting some minor dress restrictions, such as basketball/board shorts for the guys and more modern styles for the girls. The FRC is not a fundie lite organization, so I don't see Smuggar straying far from his cult beliefs as long as THEY keep paying him to spread the hate.

As for the two youngest Keller boys (David and Nathan, IIRC), Ma and Pa Keller aren't taking any chances. They spent months with the Wallers, working at HQ in Chicago. Pa Keller, in particular, seems to want to ensure that he has a son working for him, as is the case with most of the other prominent ATI families. I'm not sure of their ages, but they're both younger than Suze who is something like 22, maybe 23. The youngest may just be 18 or 19, so still quite young yet. I doubt Pa Keller is even going to let those poor guys even think about girls until they are firmly under his control in the Prison Ministry. In the end, control is what ultimately keeps these people bound to the cults.