Ken's love of babies - but not the 1st 6 months

[Jana814]

My husband's great aunt had a housekeeper who was key in raising her daughters... sort of like a non live in Alice from the Brady Bunch-- Full time cooked, ran kids around, kept the house going, etc, while the uncle and aunt both had careers, though the aunt was self employed and had some flexibility.

Said housekeeper was in family pictures at the 50th wedding anniversary, as well as was brought into the family home and cared for by the daughter's family along with the dad, after mom had died and all were aged. They recognized the "third parent" in this family.

Hate to change the subject but that is the nicest thing ever!! I know of a family (belong to my temple and the wife was my Hebrew school teacher) who after their nanny got pregnant (out of wedlock) they brought her into their home and now considers the nanny's daughter as a niece.

[Evilbad]

I think dads can bond but neither DH nor I "enjoyed" our son until he was older. Newborns are needy and don't really do much and frankly I didn't like that stage. We bonded, we cared, we cuddled, but I was really grateful when it was done and we could move on to actually interacting with him, instead of just feeling like a mindless drone with a tick stuck to my boobs.

I think sex is subjective for everybody, I know people who went right back to it, others it took awhile to find a new groove.

I mean, Ken is a douche in how he says stuff, but I think a lot of people can relate to what he's trying to say.

[latraviata]

I tell you what, nothing is sexier than a giddy daddy, in my opinion. If anything was going to induce me to want intimacy with my husband during those early months of motherhood, it was seeing him with our babies. Something about that tenderness....

I was not one to let them cry it out but I did lie in bed for the first few whimpers, hoping they'd settle down and go back to sleep. Not my husband. I don't how many times I did that hiss-whisper thing "DON'T GO IN THERE! SHE MIGHT GO BACK TO SLEEP," as he darted out of our room to calm a fussy baby.

I guess Ken and Lori's problem is that each never saw the other be selfless and tender - not just toward their spouse but toward their children. Sometimes, seeing how our spouse interacts with others, especially our children is what makes us feel those most loving and intimate feelings for them. If you are a selfish person, you don't attract love and tenderness. But I guess if you use the Bible as a weapon, you CAN attract robotic "respect" and cold, heartless sex.

I agree and particularly when they are 6.3 and have hands like shovels.

[salex]

Hate to change the subject but that is the nicest thing ever!! I know of a family (belong to my temple and the wife was my Hebrew school teacher) who after their nanny got pregnant (out of wedlock) they brought her into their home and now considers the nanny's daughter as a niece.

I have always thought of it as an outstanding example of what kind of people that group of cousins really are, and have always respected them for this. All the older generation are dead now, but even the grandkids knew and loved their mom's nanny.

[lilwriter85]

My mother has said that when my oldest brother was born, my father had a hard time bonding with him for several months. In time, my father got better and my mom said when the rest of us came into the family, my father bonded right away when we were newborns. I have observed what a few posters have mentioned her about people of both genders having a hard time forming a bond with a newborn.

When my oldest nephew was born, my dad babysat him in the first couple of weeks because my sister was recovering a C section and complications. My sister's ex couldn't take off time from his job. I find Ken's statement about not being to love a child until they were six months old to be a bit cruel. I hope Ken and Lori's oldest son Ryan did have the same attitude as Ken when it came to his two kids and I hope the other Steven doesn't have attitude when he has kids.

[slickcat79]

Ugh. I'm not sure the issue is even the lack of "bonding"...as others have mentioned, there have been people of both sexes who find it difficult to bond with a newborn. It's mostly the fact that Ken seems to use this lack of bonding as an excuse to:

-Get out of helping to care for his own children since Mom gets "happy chemicals" from breastfeeding/childcare :roll:

-Demand sex from a post-partum wife who may not be into it because dammit, Dad needs "happy chemicals" too!

Gross.

[salex]

Ugh. I'm not sure the issue is even the lack of "bonding"...as others have mentioned, there have been people of both sexes who find it difficult to bond with a newborn. It's mostly the fact that Ken seems to use this lack of bonding as an excuse to:

-Get out of helping to care for his own children since Mom gets "happy chemicals" from breastfeeding/childcare :roll:

-Demand sex from a post-partum wife who may not be into it because dammit, Dad needs "happy chemicals" too!

Gross.

Per the bolded-- does Ken have some sort of unusually short arms or basketball related injury that left him without a grip in either hand or somehow immobilized, because everyone in the world with normal functioning arms and hands can bring about the happy chemicals on demand, unaided by a sleep deprived spouse. :dance:

[Curious]

Ugh. I'm not sure the issue is even the lack of "bonding"...as others have mentioned, there have been people of both sexes who find it difficult to bond with a newborn. It's mostly the fact that Ken seems to use this lack of bonding as an excuse to:

-Get out of helping to care for his own children since Mom gets "happy chemicals" from breastfeeding/childcare :roll:

-Demand sex from a post-partum wife who may not be into it because dammit, Dad needs "happy chemicals" too!

Gross.

If Ken had to push something the size of an orange out the head of his penis, he might not think sex was so great for a while either :wink-kitty:

[Pathfinder]

If Ken had to push something the size of an orange out the head of his penis, he might not think sex was so great for a while either :wink-kitty:

Thanks for the visual... when your post is coupled with Docmom's avatar, I have a mental picture that strikes horror and hilarity in me at the same time!

[Childless]

I didn't bond well with my oldest until he was about 4 months old. The reason? He and my husband had an instant bond the moment he was born. He was all about daddy and daddy was completely taken with him. He didn't want me to hold him, comfort him, feed him, or change him. He wanted daddy (good thing my husband is the stay at home parent). He got more used to mommy doing things for him and with him as he got older, but those first few months were hard. I felt left out. Now, our new one, he's all about mommy. At 6 weeks, he's just now letting daddy/grandma/grandpa/etc. feed him (neither of my children were/are breastfed due to medical reasons). It's been all mommy all the time with him. So, my husband hasn't really had the chance to bond with him yet, but he most definitely loves him. Things should get better between them once my maternity leave is over and daddy is the only one here to play and care for him. Ken is an idiot if he thinks men aren't capable of bonding with newborns and he's a douche if he thinks fathers aren't capable of loving their babies until they are 6 months old. I feel sorry for Ken's children. What must they think when they hear him say these things?

[DGayle]

*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*HEAD-DESK*

Fuck you, Ken. My husband started bonding with out kids AT BIRTH. They were born into their daddy's hands, and he was a real daddy even before that. He loved them before birth, not 6 months later. What a fucking asshole Ken is.

[jerkit]

What is Ken's obsession with "indigestion"? Does he think it's clever?

some things we think are under our own power are really the Spirit's doing, and some things we are sure are from the Spirit we discover is simply indigestion

[littlemommy]

What is Ken's obsession with "indigestion"? Does he think it's clever?

Ken's feelings for Lori are simply indigestion.

[latraviata]

Ugh. I'm not sure the issue is even the lack of "bonding"...as others have mentioned, there have been people of both sexes who find it difficult to bond with a newborn. It's mostly the fact that Ken seems to use this lack of bonding as an excuse to:

-Get out of helping to care for his own children since Mom gets "happy chemicals" from breastfeeding/childcare :roll:

-Demand sex from a post-partum wife who may not be into it because dammit, Dad needs "happy chemicals" too!

Gross.

Some people don't bond immediately with their new borns and there is nothing wrong with that. The whole event is so life changing and overwhelming, some people need some time to get used to being a parent. So many factors are involved, the myriad of feelings and emotions you didn't even know you had them. The hormons, fatigue, the realisation of the huge responsibility can be quite frightening.

I remember with the first child I was a sort of bewildered, OMG is this really mine?? Did I do that?? What if I don't love him enough, wouldn't that be sad and I sobbed. Fortunately my mother reassured me, it is all normal and you will be fine I promise, she said, bless her.....

Germont? Was infatuated from the moment he was there, the nurse put him in his cradle, he took him out, he is my son he said. The first week I couldn't bathe him too afraid to drown him. No problem I did the soaping and Germont launched him. My children cried as much for their Dad as they cried for their Mum or even more. The second time was easier, I already was a mother and he just fell in line. Too bad their father died when they were only 16 and 14.

[Jana814]

I think it could also depend on the man. My "cousin" bonded instantly with both of his kids. He was always great w/ young children so having ones of his own was a dream come true. He even was the Stay-at-home dad for the 1st year of his 1st child's life.

[usmcmom]

Ken has run back to clarify his position on loving babies.

Ken · 10 hours ago

That is not to say I did not love them before six months, but to most men, we bond far later than mothers do with our babies. We would die for the little things at any time, but the feelings that come are often initial at birth, but then much more fully at 6-12 months. Thank goodness most women are not built like men and they do bond fully with their children immediately.

Yeah, I just had to go read it all again.... :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[treehugger]

My husband loves the newborn phase. For the first months of our daughters' lives, he held them almost constantly. According to him there is nothing comfier or sweeter than snuggling a new baby. With my oldest daughter, I didn't change a diaper until she was 2 weeks old, and hubby had to go back to work. With our second daughter, Mr. Treehugger actually took 2 months parental leave (thank you Canada for paid parental leave!) to help me with the girls. Because we breastfeed, he takes the girls in the morning and looks after them so I can sleep after being up during the night. He is a fabulous dad, and Ken A is an idiot.

[usmcmom]

He really is an idiot. Even when one of his readers pointed out that a nursing mother can experience hormonal issues that lead to vaginal dryness and pain, he insisted that women just don't want sex because they get all the good feeling from cuddling the baby. Cabinet Man pulled that kind of crap when he was here too - insisting he knew more about a woman's body than she does.

[salex]

He really is an idiot. Even when one of his readers pointed out that a nursing mother can experience hormonal issues that lead to vaginal dryness and pain, he insisted that women just don't want sex because they get all the good feeling from cuddling the baby. Cabinet Man pulled that kind of crap when he was here too - insisting he knew more about a woman's body than she does.

Given what we know about their sex life, he may not view vaginal dryness and pain as anything abnormal for women during sex.

(see also 10 minutes and some lube)

[Curious]

When I was pregnant with my first child, my husband at that time, decided when I was somewhere between 7 and 8 months pregnant that he wasn't sure he was ready to be a father :evil-eye: He also decided that he didn't want to be in the delivery room with me (or even help me with labor).

Imagine my joy at these pronouncements since it's not like *I* could really change my mind about anything at that point, in time. I hoped that he would come around as it got closer to my due date, but nope. So I just made arrangements for a friend (male, btw) to be my labor coach and go into the delivery room with me. I actually had to carry a note from my dr. around with me because back in the olden days at the small hospital in our town, having a non-immediate family member in the room with you was against the rules.

It turned out to be moot because I ended up with the "emergency" C-section anyway. He had the option to go into the OR with me since I was not being given general anesthetic, but he passed, so I was all alone. Fortunately, I grew up in the town and I did know many of the people in the delivery room and I knew the anesthesiologist pretty well, so it was comforting to have him right by my head the whole time and he talked to me and told me what was happening and even advocated for me a bit, when things went a little sideways and no one was listening to me, which I really appreciated.

So after the baby was out and cleaned up and whatnot, they took her out to show her to my husband and parents who were waiting in the waiting room and handed her to my husband, who immediately was enraptured. He refused to return her to the nurse and started trying to walk out of the waiting area with her, just kind of in a trance. My dad had to stop him and talk him into returning her to the nurse.

So I'm going to call bullshit on Ken knowing *anything* about (well anything) this topic other than HIS own feelings on the subject.

My second child's father had my son out of the nursery the entire time I was in recovery and I barely got to see him because he had to go back to have his vitals and whatnot done by the time I got out of recovery (I take a long time to come out of general anesthetic). When my son was in NICU, we actually had a knock down drag out screaming match (in one of the private holding rooms) because *I* wanted to hold my baby and was tired of never getting to when we visited him.

Both my ex's made horrible significant others (for me...hence exs), but they are both really good fathers, which is more important to me in the long run.

[RosyDaisy]

The following quote is from my fiancee: "Man 10 minute sex without caring about your wife's pleasure? Damn, you ain't doing it right and and fucked up in the head."

[polecat]

Ken has run back to clarify his position on loving babies.

Yeah, I just had to go read it all again.... :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

"The little things"? :evil-eye:

I really don't get his obsession with dying for someone being the ultimate declaration of love. I don't want my husband sacrificing himself for me to prove a point. Maybe our love just isn't as pure and godly as Lorken's.

Or, and this is probably more likely, they look to death as their ultimate "out." They clearly hate one another, but those darn "till death do them part" vows! If Ken dies for Lori, they're both free. Win-win.

[Koala]

Ken has run back to clarify his position on loving babies.

Yeah, I just had to go read it all again.... :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Not to go all Dr. Phil on his ass, BUT...

Dear Ken,

Please stop tossing out the "I'd die for my wife and children!" card. That sentiment is NOT unique to you and those in your religion. That's a spouse thing. That's a parent thing. I'd give my life to save my children and husband without even having to think it over...no questions. (Honestly, I don't know any parent who wouldn't). That does NOT, however, give me an excuse to be a piss poor wife and mother.

You don't get to check out of parenting because it's not fun or entertaining at the moment so BASKETBALL (because after all, you'd give your life for those kids)!

You don't get to drag your ass home from hanging out with the guys and then demand sex, because you've told yourself the LIE that your wife is full of "happy hormones" because she's been up with the baby since oh, birth o'clock, and she has to nurse every two hours around the clock. The "happy hormones" are so WE SURVIVE the insanity that is giving birth and caring for a newborn. Because it's work KEN, and all good parents expect to share in that work.

:pull-hair:

It's really crazy when you think about it, but I think I see what happened now. Ken refused to help with the babies, and princess Lori surely wasn't getting up with them (cause as much as she loves to "pour herself out for others" she isn't doing it at the cost of her beauty sleep), so they hatched the idea that it was actually good and holy for a newborn to cry all night without so much as being checked on.

[docmom]

"The little things"? :evil-eye:

I really don't get his obsession with dying for someone being the ultimate declaration of love. I don't want my husband sacrificing himself for me to prove a point. Maybe our love just isn't as pure and godly as Lorken's.

Or, and this is probably more likely, they look to death as their ultimate "out." They clearly hate one another, but those darn "till death do them part" vows! If Ken dies for Lori, they're both free. Win-win.

"laying down his life" is Ken's out from having to actually do anything to help out his wife. It's the reason he can insist on submission and it's the reason he's the head of the family. Because teh bible (AKA out of context Pauline letters) says a woman must submit and do all the household shit and in return the man must lay down his life. It's not hard to promise to lay down your life if you essentially have no chance of actually needing to do it. I wonder what Ken would do if he actually did have to lay down his life...

[polecat]

"laying down his life" is Ken's out from having to actually do anything to help out his wife. It's the reason he can insist on submission and it's the reason he's the head of the family. Because teh bible (AKA out of context Pauline letters) says a woman must submit and do all the household shit and in return the man must lay down his life. It's not hard to promise to lay down your life if you essentially have no chance of actually needing to do it. I wonder what Ken would do if he actually did have to lay down his life...

MTE. If there ever came a time in my life where I'd have to risk myself to save one of my kids, I can't imagine doing anything else, but I don't consider it a way to measure my love, nor would I brag about it. I mean, animals do it. It's a normal, natural response to protect one's offspring at all costs.

That said, woman here literally just DID make that choice. She pushed her kid out of the way of an out-of-control driver in a parking lot and ended up crushed between the car and a pillar. She truly died to save her child's life. The fact that Ken walks around using her experience as a yardstick of his love just sort of grosses me out.