Ken's love of babies - but not the 1st 6 months

[Yomoaw]

Ken has run back to clarify his position on loving babies.

Yeah, I just had to go read it all again.... :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Clearly Ken's School of Statistical Analysis does not teach what a sample size is. Most out of how many? Doesn't seem like most out of this thread.

Put me down as one who bonded with dad immediately. My mom had a really rough delivery, and it wasn't in either of our best interests for her to breastfeed. My dad insisted on her resting so he could do all the feedings himself. Then stayed home with me while she went back to work.

[salex]

Ken · 10 hours ago

That is not to say I did not love them before six months, but to most men, we bond far later than mothers do with our babies. We would die for the little things at any time, but the feelings that come are often initial at birth, but then much more fully at 6-12 months. Thank goodness most women are not built like men and they do bond fully with their children immediately.

Hi Ken!

Just can't quit us, can you... :lol:

Or did even the people Lori allows to post comments :leg-humper: find you a bit off on that one?

[micatite]

There are pictures of my father happily holding me up as he introduced his baby girl to a Santa Claus toy. No one doubts I'm daddy's girl and much loved when they see the photos. Yet, given my very late July B-day, the very oldest I could POSSIBLY be in the photos is 5 months. Somehow my father managed not to hold that age deficit against me.

In fact, there are pictures of me at a much younger age (like scant weeks after birth) with him lying on the couch, holding me against close his body and keeping me protected and safe within the cradle of his big arm, and despite the evident sleep deprivation on his face, the photo still inspires many, "Awww!"s due to it also showing a father being incredibly loving to his brand new arrival.

I'm glad my dad was able to love me right away, instead of waiting until I grew up enough to became 'fun' and a plaything for him.

[moodygirl86]

Ken's feelings for Lori are simply indigestion.

I can sympathise with that. The way I feel about Ken may as well be indigestion, the vomitous viper!

[shedemei]

I can't fault a man for not having that instant bond; even some women don't. If they're taking care of their child and the bond happens gradually, it's fine. Not all men have to have an amazing instant-bonding experience, and I suspect some of those that describe it are just repeating the script they're supposed to have.

I found this Ted talk about parenting myths very interesting (as a non-parent), and one of the myths discussed is this very topic.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I can't fault a man for not having that instant bond; even some women don't. If they're taking care of their child and the bond happens gradually, it's fine. Not all men have to have an amazing instant-bonding experience, and I suspect some of those that describe it are just repeating the script they're supposed to have.

I found this Ted talk about parenting myths very interesting (as a non-parent), and one of the myths discussed is this very topic.

With one of my kids, it really was instant love and bliss as a year-long cloud of grief and depression and craziness suddenly disappeared and I zoomed straight to cloud 9. Easily the best moment of my life.

With one of my kids, it was mostly about overwhelming relief that - against all odds - I had a healthy baby.

With one of my kids, I really wanted to instantly love the baby, but I was too busy grasping for breath, the nurses said I was shaking too much to hold the baby, and then I was distracted by nurses screaming as they noticed that my incision was still bleeding in the recovery room.

Since my husband wasn't the one undergoing an operation, he seemed to have a similar, instant-love reaction each time.

I'll also add that I had one kid who had issues eating and sleeping, one kid who ate fine and who didn't seem to need to sleep, and one kid who ate perfectly and slept for long stretches perfectly on schedule.

I'll agree with the TED talk that love is a process. With the 2 kids where it wasn't absolute instant head-over-heels, I worked harder on the process. Love is a verb. With babies, it's not an option to say "I'm just not that into you", and think that you can come back later when they are more interesting. When you care for the baby and pay attention to everything they do and have cuddle time and play with them, you fall in love and bond. You also develop empathy. When a baby is crying all night and clearly not comfortable, or a toddler pukes up 13 fish sticks all over your head, it's not fun. It is, however, a moment where you realize that this little person feels worse than you do, that they need you, and that you have the power to be loving and do what you can to care for them and comfort them.

BTW, the part of the TED talk on miscarriage was bang on. It's a bit better today with the internet, but in 1998 and even in 2002, the culture of secrecy was brutal. I love my ILs, but really snapped at them after they basically ordered us to keep quiet about our miscarriages and paste on a smile and say that everything was ok. I also related to the part about irrational feelings of shame and guilt. At least I know that I wasn't the only one who felt that way. Of course, there's a bigger taboo that they didn't mention - the fact that you start to hate seeing pregnant women and babies when you can't conceive or you've had a loss.

[formergothardite]

I can't fault a man for not having that instant bond; even some women don't. If they're taking care of their child and the bond happens gradually, it's fine. Not all men have to have an amazing instant-bonding experience, and I suspect some of those that describe it are just repeating the script they're supposed to have.

I found this Ted talk about parenting myths very interesting (as a non-parent), and one of the myths discussed is this very topic.

I actually think the same thing is true for women. It is even less socially accepted for a woman to say that she is not bonded with her child.

With my second I had a hard time bonding. I remember standing in the NICU thinking that I would rather be doing anything but be there and that the only reason I stayed up there all the time was because people would think poorly of me if I didn't. I loved my child, but it wasn't this amazing instant bond.

[Coco]

I'll agree with the TED talk that love is a process. With the 2 kids where it wasn't absolute instant head-over-heels, I worked harder on the process. Love is a verb. With babies, it's not an option to say "I'm just not that into you", and think that you can come back later when they are more interesting. When you care for the baby and pay attention to everything they do and have cuddle time and play with them, you fall in love and bond. You also develop empathy. When a baby is crying all night and clearly not comfortable, or a toddler pukes up 13 fish sticks all over your head, it's not fun. It is, however, a moment where you realize that this little person feels worse than you do, that they need you, and that you have the power to be loving and do what you can to care for them and comfort them.

That's true love in action. This is where guys like Ken just don't get it. Those guys think it's okay to let someone else carry the load when they get uncomfortable or inconvenienced and they believe they can still be a "loving parent" when they're only involved when THEY enjoy it, but real love is actually being there for the kids when life isn't fun or when it's not about the grown up at all.

Those videos of guys experiencing labor pains on youtube are really fun to watch. :lol: Guys just don't know, they'll never know the sacrificial love of being a mother. What i don't understand is why do guys get more of a pass in the bonding department if they haven't been through as much personal suffering? i guess sometimes the physical struggles actually produce the bond. For some guys, it's easy come easy go.

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[latraviata]

That's true love in action. This is where guys like Ken just don't get it. Those guys think it's okay to let someone else carry the load when they get uncomfortable or inconvenienced and they believe they can still be a "loving parent" when they're only involved when THEY enjoy it, but real love is actually being there for the kids when life isn't fun or when it's not about the grown up at all.

Those videos of guys experiencing labor pains on youtube are really fun to watch. :lol: Guys just don't know, they'll never know the sacrificial love of being a mother. What i don't understand is why do guys get more of a pass in the bonding department if they haven't been through as much personal suffering? i guess sometimes the physical struggles actually produce the bond. For some guys, it's easy come easy go.

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Bear in mind..the Dutch aren't very much into pain relief. Some enlichtened OB/GYNs are reluctantly willing to grant you some pain medication. but they rather prefer the 'Dutch school' which is torture indeed.

[Koala]

With babies, it's not an option to say "I'm just not that into you", and think that you can come back later when they are more interesting. When you care for the baby and pay attention to everything they do and have cuddle time and play with them, you fall in love and bond. You also develop empathy. When a baby is crying all night and clearly not comfortable, or a toddler pukes up 13 fish sticks all over your head, it's not fun. It is, however, a moment where you realize that this little person feels worse than you do, that they need you, and that you have the power to be loving and do what you can to care for them and comfort them.

:clap: :clap:

[Walking Cat Bed]

Don't lie Ken, you obviously don't love babies unless there's some sort of condition attached! You're supposed to love your kids unconditionally, particularly when they're too tiny to do anything for themselves, let alone you. And I say this as someone who is childfree by choice. This is because I haven't got a maternal bone in me, but at least I'm aware of this in myself and will never bring a child into the world who I can't love properly.

I'm also CFBC, and I'm with you -- it's because the idea of having human children appeals to me so little, not because I hate children. Some of them are pretty interesting people. I'd just prefer pets.

The kitten I just adopted only proves this -- I LIKE that I can leave her with food, water, a clean litter box, comfy nap places and toys while I'm at school all day (literally -- I'm gone 12 hours) during the week, and she's fine when I get back. She wants attention and to play outside of our bedroom (I only JUST adopted her, and the Alpha Cat is still getting used to her), but she's happy to see me and to cuddle between zooming around and killing mousies ded. I worry a bit because she's so tiny, but she's fearless and made of rubber; I don't HAVE to worry as much as I do.

I wouldn't adopt a puppy or adopt/birth a human, though, because that's a LOT more work and time. I'd hate being a human's mother.

The difference between me and Lori/Debi Pearl/the woman who's cramming all of her kids into a trailer is I KNOW that I don't want to be a mom, and so I'm not going to be a mom.

[moodygirl86]

I'm also CFBC, and I'm with you -- it's because the idea of having human children appeals to me so little, not because I hate children. Some of them are pretty interesting people. I'd just prefer pets.

The kitten I just adopted only proves this -- I LIKE that I can leave her with food, water, a clean litter box, comfy nap places and toys while I'm at school all day (literally -- I'm gone 12 hours) during the week, and she's fine when I get back. She wants attention and to play outside of our bedroom (I only JUST adopted her, and the Alpha Cat is still getting used to her), but she's happy to see me and to cuddle between zooming around and killing mousies ded. I worry a bit because she's so tiny, but she's fearless and made of rubber; I don't HAVE to worry as much as I do.

I wouldn't adopt a puppy or adopt/birth a human, though, because that's a LOT more work and time. I'd hate being a human's mother.

The difference between me and Lori/Debi Pearl/the woman who's cramming all of her kids into a trailer is I KNOW that I don't want to be a mom, and so I'm not going to be a mom.

Awww, that's so sweet! I also plan to be a cat mum one day, when I can afford to look after a pet. I'm not maternal with human babies, but cats and kittens I can do.

[RosyDaisy]

THINGS? WTH? Ken, babies aren't THINGS you asshole! They are living breathing children with names that you helped create! It' s official. You are incapable of unconditional love. Neither is Lori. Both of you are fucking monsters. Your kids would have been better off with the nanny permanently than the 2 of you!