Now back to your regularly scheduled Alexanders...

[Firiel]

Well, now that Wardrobe Wanker is gone, I have time to read Lori's blog. In the comments about a post on (surprise!) submission, Maria shows some reason/critical thinking:

 

EDIT: lorialexander.blogspot.com/2014/08/adorning-yourself-with-submission.html#IDComment861962284

 

 

Quote

Maria · 5 hours ago

I have always struggled with this. I know it Biblically, but often in Christian homes there are differing opinions, very often with the raising of children. Husbands and wives come from different homes and we take what we have learned with us. For me it has been easy to be married to my husband, but I have friends where the husband is legalistic and domineering. I can understand some of the dilemmas that ensue. Mothers are often caught between their teens and their husbands. eg. The father is determined that his son will play football, the son has no interest and mom understands her son's dilemma. It sure isn't always black and white.

 

 

Ken responds:

 

 

Quote

Ken · 3 hours ago

No Maria, it is not black and White, and that is why someone has to cast the final vote. Like in any good partnership of equals, one has to be the lead manager or decision maker. And this is God's design for the husband to decide at the end of the discussion. After the discussion and moms being unable to convince Dad, they must submit, and by doing so show a unified front to their teens.

 

I know of a number of young men who all grew up regretting that their mothers stepped in and they did not play sports. Playing sports is much like going to "boot camp," especially in the early training days where discipline of one's attitude, complete allegiance to the coach, and learning to discipline one's body takes place. Here is a son who does not want to play sports because he knows what discipline it takes, like Dad does, but Mom has no clue, but she jumps in the mix and robs her son of his ability to learn discipline. There are few other places to learn such discipline for young men.

 

We both discouraged our sons from playing football, but they did play almost every other sport in its season.

 

 

Let's just put aside the fact that he doesn't even seem to understand the issue that Maria is addressing. We don't even have to touch that one.

 

1. "There are few other places to learn such discipline for young men." Because, you know, excelling at writing, the school newspaper, dancing, the piano, the tuba, etc. doesn't require discipline. Only sports. And probably only "manly" sports too.

 

2. "Here is a son who does not want to play sports because he knows what discipline it takes..." Because the ONLY reason a boy might not be interested in sports is because he is lazy/doesn't want to put in the discipline. It's not at all possible that he just doesn't like sports or that he sucks at them and wants to put his energy into something he could do well.

 

3. (continuation of above quote) "...like Dad does, but Mom has no clue..." OH NO HE DIDN'T. Clearly, women cannot understand what it is like to play a sport competitively. We don't understand the discipline involved. I clearly don't understand what it's like to go to practice for 3-4 hours a day in order to train for college track meets. I don't understand what it's like to play basketball for 10 years and to keep practicing and honing my skills on the off-season. I don't know what it's like to get up at 4am to go for a long bike ride and to go for a long swim after eight hours of work because I'm training for an athletic competition. I don't know what it's like to compete with shin splints, with the flu, or with a stress fracture in my leg because I'M JUST A WOMAN.

 

4. "but she jumps in the mix and robs her son of his ability to learn discipline." Maybe she's jumping in not to rob her son of discipline but because, if he is dedicating his free time (and sometimes well-being) to an activity, SHE WANTS IT TO BE SOMETHING HE DOESN'T HATE. But then, Lorken is all about life-long commitments to situations that make them miserable.

 

[alba]

Er, it's not a "partnership of equals" if there's a leader. It's a contradiction in terms. Didn't this idiot go to college?

[usmcmom]

It is amazing how many people Ken can offend with just a few lines.

[usmcmom]

Since someone brought it up. This is so typical of Ken:

Ken · 4 hours ago

I am sorry to hear this Holly. Can I assume that his Dad ridiculed his Mom as a way of getting his way? Here is what I suggest. Go to your husband and tell him that you truly desire to be a godly submissive wife, but you need him to help you see what that looks like. That if he would make simple requests of you, and if you do not follow through, that instead of punishing you by ridiculing you, can he instead just count numbers for each offense: 1, 2, 3, with a smile. Each time he gets to three in a week you will pay a different penalty, and ask him what he would like that to be... back rub, best sex ever, etc.

If he agrees he wants to try the game you may ask, with a smile, if he wants to allow you to do 1, 2, 3 with him each time he ridicules you and you get the back rubs when he hits 3.

I have found that if you can make a game out of retraining bad habits it is much easier to both communicate about them and cure them. It brings the bad habits to the light, maybe even in a fun way, and that exposure is the catalyst the Spirit needs to heal them. Start the game with your own bad habits and then hope he wants to play along to change his. Many men have this ability to use their tone of voice and snide remarks to "keep their wife in her place" and it is very ugly behavior. But we can't see it clearly.

See what you can do to gently expose it without being hurt all the time. Deal with his bad behavior more clinically, and seek a cure, and keep whatever you do enjoyable. Also, don't expect an instant cure. It took me about a year to see how ugly my bad habits were towards my wife :{.

WHY is everything all about games and punishment with these people? He uses examples like this a lot - do what he wants or he gets to "punish" you - and one of those punishments is almost always sex.

When my husband is doing something that hurts my feelings, I say "It hurts my feelings when you do that. Can you please try to avoid it." The opposite is also true; if I've upset him, he simply tells me so. We speak to each other as adults who mutually respect each other. Each of us enjoys making the other happy and we need no rewards or games to do so. I can't imagine going through marriage keeping track of who owed the other a back rub or the "Best Sex Ever" for some offense.

Every time Ken mentions one of his little games or bargaining sessions, I think of sticker charts and m&m's like we used to use to potty train our kids. But then, that's all marriage is to him - training his woman.

[Coconut Flan]

I think Ken went to one of the Bible U type places for college. Obviously if they had a class on logic, which would be doubtful, he didn't take it.

[usmcmom]

Oh for the love of Pete!!

Sara · 1 hour ago

Hello and many thanks for this post!

I have no problems submitting to my husband, although recently there has been one. I had my annual physical exam with our Christian doctor. I am in excellent health and take cafe of myself well, however, over the last few years I have put on a few pounds. My thyroid and bloodwork are perfect and I already have fairy good dietary and eating habits-I just need to kick up the exercise more. My doctor suggested weight loss of only 5 to 10 lbs since I am fairly close to my original weight before having our three little children and clinically am only 5 to 10 lbs overweight. The main reason is because there is a history of heart disease, diabetes and cholesterol problems in my family. I explained this to my husband, but he does not want me to lose any weight since he likes and enjoys my curvier body. What do you suggest? I personally want to follow doctors orders and feel better physically, but wouldn't that be nonsubmissive to my husband? Or would it be more sinful to not take care of my health better than I am? I considered asking them to discuss the issue together, but I don't know if that is the proper and right approach either. Is there any advice you might have? I would certainly be thankful for it.

Lori Alexander · 18 minutes ago :

I would suggest for you to obey your husband. Most men like a little meat on their women. Eat right and exercise so you won't get one of those diseases.

Wait. I thought men wanted their women to be skinny. I mean, ALL MEN want a skinny woman. That's what they're attracted too, right?

[ViolaSebastian]

Can I assume that his Dad ridiculed his Mom as a way of getting his way?

No, Ken, no you can't, and you've made me quite angry in this assumption. Without getting into details, my mother was quite the submissive wife to my domineering father. They didn't follow the Christian model or principles, it was more a situation of my father was a complete dillhole to my mother. He was an abusive (and yes, Ken, abusive in the traditional sense, as in hitting and punching and kicking my mother) and he enjoyed ridiculing and demeaning my mother at every chance he got. It wasn't because he wasn't getting his way--he was, about damn thing under the sun, because my mother feared him and feared for her children's safety--he was just a horrible human being. And some men, and frankly women, are just horrible human beings and do that to the people they profess to love. It isn't about control, it isn't about being the leader, it's about being a jerk.

[Firiel]

Wife Seeking God · 5 hours ago

Oh my gosh,please don't ever stop writing!Some of us women don't have a Titus model in our lives.We look forward to your writing AND work on it!!We need you,thank you for being there!May God Bless You Greatly!

Half of the commenters on Lori's blog must be overly sycophantic Poes.

[dairyfreelife]

Ken have be able to run a business, but otherwise he a complete and total idiot.

I have never once met someone who wished their parents had made them play a sport they didn't want to play. I have met people who said they wished they had been pushed harder in education because in life, education matters. Sports don't. I'm sorry, but they are entirely for fun and very, very, very few people will ever be in anything in high level sports or in any professional sports setting.

I will say that I have known people say the opposite though. They resent being made to play sports they didn't want to play.

Education, when done well, requires far more discipline than any sport ever will. Sure, sports require discipline, but so does anything if you want to be good at what you are doing. Painting, cake decorating, ballet, baseball, swimming, etc.

And no, there does not always have to be one who gets a final say always. It's not a business with the man always the CEO and her in a lower position. That's not how it works.

The lack of respect Ken has for Lori's opinions and thoughts are glaring here. Maybe she can't make those decisions properly, I don't know. She is not very bright either based off her own posts. However, to accuse women of not understanding and letting the men deal because they just can't reason well enough, are too emotional to make decisions is flat out fucking stupid.

[salex]

No Maria, it is not black and White, and that is why someone has to cast the final vote.

Actually, is more black and white when this Kenny offers his process than it is in any other possible setting.

Like in any good partnership of equals, one has to be the lead manager or decision maker.

So, basically his idea of a partnership of equals is straight out of Animal Farm?

And this is God's design for the husband to decide at the end of the discussion.

Ken, you mean "And this is MY INTERPRETATION OF God's design for the husband to decide at the end of the discussion."

After the discussion and moms being unable to convince Dad, they must submit,

Back to Animal Farm... 3 legs good, 2 legs bad...

and by doing so show a unified front to their teens.

Who will always know their dad was such a bastard that he wouldn't listen to him or his mom.

I know of a number of young men who all grew up regretting that their mothers stepped in and they did not play sports.

Actually, it was my husband's father who wouldn't let them play sports-- he thought sports were a waste of time, put kids at risk of injury that would impact their future and took away from the discipline of working on the farm or studying or participating in things he viewed as more valuable--music was one of these. Hubs nor his brothers regret not being in sports, though those with children have them to include sports in the variety of activities they can choose from.

Playing sports is much like going to "boot camp," especially in the early training days where discipline of one's attitude, complete allegiance to the coach, and learning to discipline one's body takes place.

Really? This complete allegiance to the coach bullshit reminds me of why my parents discouraged any of their children from going into the military -- they didn't think another person having that much control over us would have been healthy or good....wait, that may be why they didn't preach submission.

Here is a son who does not want to play sports because he knows what discipline it takes,

Or, because the son wants to spend his time in some other discipline (I used to watch a man dance ballet who seemed like he could fly-- I suspect he had plenty of discipline) and the same is true of any number of non sports activities. Face it.. risking injury, spending the time on that instead of something you really care about, knowing that the vast number of HS Football players won't even be playing football in college, on the college team OR intermural makes football one of the silliest games to learn. Even Kens' love, baseket ball is better, but honing skills in tennis or golf seems more like sometihing that could last a lifetime (or guitar, etc)

like Dad does, but Mom has no clue,

Really, YOu think mom hasn't ever had to be disciplined enough to be skilled at something. Dad should have picked better.

but she jumps in the mix and robs her son of his ability to learn discipline. There are few other places to learn such discipline for young men.

Ken, your either ignorant or just stupid... could go either way if you believe the spew you are offering here.

We both discouraged our sons from playing football, but they did play almost every other sport in its season.

Of course, the woman specifically was asking about football, you fool. So you think your kids were not right for football, but her son should be forced to if daddy wants to relive his youth, instead of letting the kid pick some other sport instead. OK, I'm going with "Just stupid" as the answer to my previous question.

My god. I've always been glad I was not married to Ken, but thank goodness I didn't have him for a father either.

Ken, I cant' quit you. I can avoid the blog but when someone posts your inane comments here, i end up being a Proverbs 26:11 woman.

[Curious]

Er, it's not a "partnership of equals" if there's a leader. It's a contradiction in terms. Didn't this idiot go to college?

Supposedly, but apparently none of the schools he went to at any point in his life taught him that...say it with me now...WORDS HAVE MEANINGS!

I've been trying to decide if we need a new tagline, because I've been trying to decide if "Keeping Quiverfull and Fundies Flouncing since 2005" actually makes sense. Maybe it should be "Where Words Have Meaning!"

[thoughtful]

. That if he would make simple requests of you, and if you do not follow through, that instead of punishing you by ridiculing you, can he instead just count numbers for each offense: 1, 2, 3, with a smile.

This seems to be the week for fundies to make me think of old jokes.

Back in the Good Old Days[tm][/tm], a bride and groom are on the way to their honeymoon destination, driving a horse-drawn wagon. As they approach a small stream, the horse balks and needs to be urged to cross. Once across the stream, the man stops the wagon, walks up the the horse, and stares into its eyes. Finally, he states, "That's one."

A bit further down the path, the horse is startled by a rabbit. Once again, the man stares the horse in the eyes, and says, "That's two!"

As the afternoon sun begins to set, the horse stops to defecate. The man goes to the front of the horse, stares it in the eyes, says, "That's three," removes a pistol from his vest, and shoots the horse dead.

The woman, quite upset at seeing their horse killed, says to her husband, "That's terrible, why would you do such a thing!"

The man stares at his wife and firmly says, "That's one!"

[TrueRebel1]

Ken responds:

Ken · 3 hours ago

No Maria, it is not black and White, and that is why someone has to cast the final vote. Like in any good partnership of equals, one has to be the lead manager or decision maker. And this is God's design for the husband to decide at the end of the discussion. After the discussion and moms being unable to convince Dad, they must submit, and by doing so show a unified front to their teens.

I know of a number of young men who all grew up regretting that their mothers stepped in and they did not play sports. Playing sports is much like going to "boot camp," especially in the early training days where discipline of one's attitude, complete allegiance to the coach, and learning to discipline one's body takes place. Here is a son who does not want to play sports because he knows what discipline it takes, like Dad does, but Mom has no clue, but she jumps in the mix and robs her son of his ability to learn discipline. There are few other places to learn such discipline for young men.

We both discouraged our sons from playing football, but they did play almost every other sport in its season.

Umm...does Ken really believe that women do not play sports? I know plenty of girls/women who have played soccer, baseball, basketball, volleyball, etc. And there are other activities, which Ken might consider "sissy", that also take much discipline. Music comes to mind. It takes great discipline to practice and practice and become a good musician. :angry-banghead:

[Coco]

and.. girls play football.

rochester.twcnews.com/content/news/560011/girl-wins-lawsuit-to-play-on-boys-football-team/

sikids.com/blogs/2012/11/05/meet-erin-dimeglio-americas-first-female-high-school-qb

kingscountynews.ca/Sports/Football/2013-10-28/article-3449625/Football-girls%3A-High-school-players-Cornelius,-Bell-pursue-love-of-the-game/1

Enjoy your little blog, Ken and Lori, and your little realm of influence. Meanwhile the real world is becoming more equal and more fair, and you can't stop it.

Someday you'll realize that giving all people equal rights and freedom of choice regardless of gender makes the world a better place for everyone.

[formergothardite]

Ken treats men like spoiled children who can't be reasoned with in an adult way. He shows no respect for men at all. You can to play a game with a man to teach him how to treat people nice? I played games with two year olds to teach them how to behave. A grown ass man is smart enough that you can sit down and have a conversation with him about how his behavior is effecting his wife. Stop treating men like babies Ken. You can't have men being overgrown babies and manly leaders at the same time.

[jerkit]

Ken treats men like spoiled children who can't be reasoned with in an adult way. He shows no respect for men at all. You can to play a game with a man to teach him how to treat people nice? I played games with two year olds to teach them how to behave. A grown ass man is smart enough that you can sit down and have a conversation with him about how his behavior is effecting his wife. Stop treating men like babies Ken. You can't have men being overgrown babies and manly leaders at the same time.

And he's so condescending. He has to appear older and wiser than everyone else.

[jerkit]

I haven't even read the rest of the post and I'm already disgusted.

Make sure you stop having children before the age of 40 or something may be wrong with them. Heaven forbid you have a child that isn't perfect!

Way to minimize the struggles of having a child with disabilities, Lori. Monster. You're. A. Monster.

[usmcmom]

I haven't even read the rest of the post and I'm already disgusted.

Way to minimize the struggles of having a child with disabilities, Lori. Monster. You're. A. Monster.

I see why you didn't finish the post, but that item is listed as "Lie" we tell ourselves about having children. She's not stating it as her own belief here.

I do wonder how some of these families would handle a child with special needs. Most children do not fit into the black and white view of the world they have; but a child with special needs would REALLY not fit into a preconceived mold. I know the Muncks have a child with Down Syndrome, don't they? I don't follow them much but they seem to really cherish their little boy. Would the more extreme families be so loving?

[jerkit]

I see why you didn't finish the post, but that item is listed as "Lie" we tell ourselves about having children. She's not stating it as her own belief here.

I do wonder how some of these families would handle a child with special needs. Most children do not fit into the black and white view of the world they have; but a child with special needs would REALLY not fit into a preconceived mold. I know the Muncks have a child with Down Syndrome, don't they? I don't follow them much but they seem to really cherish their little boy. Would the more extreme families be so loving?

Oh no, I understand that. But she adds in the commentary "Heaven forbid you have a less than perfect child"

Lori IS minimizing those struggles. She thinks it's super breezy to have a special needs child.

[usmcmom]

Oh no, I understand that. But she adds in the commentary "Heaven forbid you have a less than perfect child"

Lori IS minimizing those struggles. She thinks it's super breezy to have a special needs child.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Sorry 'bout that. I was afraid you were *gasp* mischaracterizing. So I guess I am guilty of mischaracterizing your mischaracterizing. :o

[Koala]

Thank goodness Lori never had a child with special needs. She'd have probably beaten the poor little one senseless.

She flicked the cheeks of her nursing babies. What would she have done to a baby who had suck/swallow issues???

She let her babies CIO from 3 weeks on. What would she have done with a special needs baby who possibly couldn't even survive long stretches without care? What about her precious sleep?

She had 4 hour long training/spanking sessions with her 18 month old. How would she have responded to a child with special needs when she felt they were being "difficult" or "rebellious"?

She force fed her children. What would she have done with a child who gagged and refused to eat??

She gloated over a mother spanking her child for not saying "hello". What would she have done with a non-verbal child?

She had a nanny who held her crying baby for hours a day. Would she have also had the nanny spend hour after hour at doctors/therapy appointments with a special needs child???

No Lori, it's a grace that you never had a special needs child at your mercy, because you're a too vile and rotten to be in the presence of such a child. You didn't deserve your own kids, much less one that didn't at least have the hope of one day growing up and walking away.

[Koala]

Sorry...had to edit the hell out of that one. I am sick and apparently that means I shouldn't type :P

[salex]

I haven't even read the rest of the post and I'm already disgusted.

Way to minimize the struggles of having a child with disabilities, Lori. Monster. You're. A. Monster.

Didn't this bitch stop with 4 kids?

Her blog should be called "Always Hypocritical" because she preaches a life that she didn't leave to acheive a marriage she never had (and from her writing , still doesn't, really)

She was not a submissive wife and from her and Ken's reporting wasn't even a reasonable person to live with--wouldn't have made it in an egalitarian marriage either-- but women are not to work (cause she was too lazy to do so and found an out with God) are not to say no to their husbands on sex (though Ken suggests that was not always the case in their life) are not to use birth control (though she lied about using it when she did use it herself), were supposed to have a lot of kids (she had 4-- which is not a lot) no matter how poor (she is not poor, even if they did live in a trailer when they were first married and drove around in a handmedown mercedes) I can only assume her nasty tone that is aimed at feminists and while "instructing" other women to suck it up no matter how bad it gets and submit is the same one she used on Ken during the lousy years.

Ken assumes all women are as horrible as the one he married, which I suspect he thinks gives men the right to treat their wives badly and do the nonsensical bullshit relationship games he suggests.

I am still amazed that they have any legitimate following at all.

[Firiel]

You need a lot of money to raise children. The latest statistic says you need at least a couple hundred thousand dollars just to raise one child. You have to be emotionally prepared to have a child. If you aren't, you should consider an abortion. Your husband should have a very good job and be financially stable before having children. You need to be married for awhile before having children, exploring the world or getting a career off the ground. If you have children, only have one or two because of overpopulation. Make sure you stop having children before the age of 40 or something may be wrong with them. Heaven forbid you have a child that isn't perfect! You shouldn't poke a hole in your diaphragm and deceive your husband into having a child he is not ready for.

These are all lies, absolute, complete lies.

There, I added the one she forgot for her.

[Koala]

And another thing. "Children make a poor man rich"? Yeah no, they make him desperate.

Desperate to figure out where the next meal is coming from.

Desperate to figure out how he'll manage to keep his kids warm when his heat/gas has been disconnected in the dead of winter.

Desperate to figure out how to pay for medicine.

Desperate to put shoes on his kids' feet.

Desperate to sleep after working for hours with no end in sight.

Desperate because he has a mortgage/rent to pay (and doesn't have parents to pay it for him LIKE LORI'S PARENTS DID FOR KEN AND LORI )

Desperate because he is relying on his son for groceries (like GIL BATES DID)

Desperate because he has no safety net (LIKE KEN AND LORI DID).

Lori is running around all over the internet encouraging kids to get married without a penny to their name, and she's too ignorant to realize that not all kids have the GIANT ASS safety net that she had. Bria Crawford? Yeah, her mother can't help her...she can barely feed the kids she has. But Lori is too dumb to realize that.

Here is the shameless brag she left on Kelly's post:

Our youngest daughter got married last Jan. to a young man just beginning dental school. They didn’t want to wait until all of their ducks were in a row!

:pull-hair: :pull-hair: :pull-hair:

YOU, Lori Alexander wouldn't know "poor" if it knocked on your posh front door.