Sparkling Lauren, a super special sparkling surrogacy and a "gayby"

[chaotic life]

No, even NOW, a grieving mother is in no situation mentally to understand make a competent decision to be a surrogate. No reputable surrogacy agency would EVER approve her for surrogacy for this reason. She lost Elijah three weeks before I lost my son. I still cannot decide if we will adopt one more child or not, and it completely differs from day to day. The one thing I am able to know is that I don't want to move forward with an adoption if any of my motivation is to fill the gaping hole in my soul that losing my son has caused. The commentor on her blog that said she is trying to fill that void is dead on. But, this won't fill that void. It will just make it worse.

[lilith]

Her new post about the Nimbin Markets:

Nimbin market is a thriving, colourful space where almost anything is on sale, and locals browse the stalls as an excuse to catch up on their socialising. Although it’s been happening for about thirty years, the market has recently been revived through a new dose of energy and is now a must-do for anyone touring Northern NSW.

Lauren, the Nimbin Markets have been what they are for well over thirty years. The fact that your friends Hellena and Currawong have got involved with them doesn't make them super special and sparkly. They are just like they were when I was a child (and don't hold a candle to the big hippie market held at the nearby The Channon).

I find it very interesting that she doesn't like Nimbin. I suspect she finds the concentration of authentic authenticity a little hard to take. Plus ageing hippies aren't very attractive to photograph, and many of those venerable crones will tell her to put shoes on her kids in winter and to stop letting them clamber all over the counter in their shops.

I've said it before, but my parents and many of their friends, the generation that founded alternative lifestyle culture on the north coast, take a very dim view of Lauren and her ilk, especially regarding them unschooling their uncared for children, all in the name of "authenticity". The original generation of hippies came from an overwhelmingly urban middle class background, and while they rejected much of the mainstream they tend to value education, manners, and basic childcare. They founded alternative schools that reflected their values, homeschooled with an academic focus, and patronised local public schools, influencing the school communities to reflect the new culture growing in the area. A good portion of them taught in public schools. There is still a strong core of post war middle class values among many of that generation of alternative lifestylers - and Nimbin abounds with them.

[Vex]

This makes me fucking furious.

I want to slap whoever decided Lauren would be a good surrogate. She shut out her dad for YEARS because he was gay and now she wants asspats because she's "helping a gay couple". No, this is all about her. It's always all about her. It's about making herself look good after shunning gay people, it's not about helping people or about making up for her past misplaced anger against gay people.

I am gay and Australian and I am the first one to speak out about how I can't adopt kids as a single woman or a gay woman, but this is wrong because Lauren is doing this for entirely selfish reasons. I am really upset to hear about this.

[lilith]

This makes me fucking furious.

I want to slap whoever decided Lauren would be a good surrogate. She shut out her dad for YEARS because he was gay and now she wants asspats because she's "helping a gay couple". No, this is all about her. It's always all about her. It's about making herself look good after shunning gay people, it's not about helping people or about making up for her past misplaced anger against gay people.

I am gay and Australian and I am the first one to speak out about how I can't adopt kids as a single woman or a gay woman, but this is wrong because Lauren is doing this for entirely selfish reasons. I am really upset to hear about this.

If you impress her with your authenticity she may gestate you a Gayby of your very own! I recommend you and your girlfriend dressing exclusively in a fetching shade of purple, maybe one shade removed from each other, cultivating your pubic hair (and dreads, it goes without saying) and impressing Lauren with your plans for raising a free range newborn. A wad of cash, exchanged through the tax free new economy as an energy exchange of love would probably help too.....

[snarkelle]

I suspect she finds the concentration of authentic authenticity a little hard to take. Plus ageing hippies aren't very attractive to photograph, and many of those venerable crones will tell her to put shoes on her kids in winter and to stop letting them clamber all over the counter in their shops.

......

I've said it before, but my parents and many of their friends, the generation that founded alternative lifestyle culture on the north coast, take a very dim view of Lauren and her ilk, especially regarding them unschooling their uncared for children, all in the name of "authenticity". The original generation of hippies came from an overwhelmingly urban middle class background, and while they rejected much of the mainstream they tend to value education, manners, and basic childcare. They founded alternative schools that reflected their values, homeschooled with an academic focus, and patronised local public schools, influencing the school communities to reflect the new culture growing in the area. A good portion of them taught in public schools. There is still a strong core of post war middle class values among many of that generation of alternative lifestylers - and Nimbin abounds with them.

This is slightly offtopic, but lilith I just wanted to say that I have found your insights into the Australian hippie/alternative culture and its nexus with baby boomer values absolutely fascinating! Keep it coming.

What is your view of the paths taken by the offspring of the middle-class dropouts? Do you think most of them went back to the mainstream, or do they tend more to branch off into other alternative communities and lifestyles?

It is interesting to think about why young Australians from middle-class homes dropped out in the 60's and 70's, and why they took some core values with them. When I look at the few alternative people that I know (and they are not in country towns but in Perth), it seems to me their dropping out/seeking was not to do with specific values, but rather with escape from abuse/trauma, and a rejection of the conventions within which they have suffered that abuse/trauma (marriage, church, scientific medicine/childbirth, work etc). Because mostly they're quite damaged people, and that's reflected in their parenting.

[lilith]

This is slightly offtopic, but lilith I just wanted to say that I have found your insights into the Australian hippie/alternative culture and its nexus with baby boomer values absolutely fascinating! Keep it coming.

What is your view of the paths taken by the offspring of the middle-class dropouts? Do you think most of them went back to the mainstream, or do they tend more to branch off into other alternative communities and lifestyles?

It is interesting to think about why young Australians from middle-class homes dropped out in the 60's and 70's, and why they took some core values with them. When I look at the few alternative people that I know (and they are not in country towns but in Perth), it seems to me their dropping out/seeking was not to do with specific values, but rather with escape from abuse/trauma, and a rejection of the conventions within which they have suffered that abuse/trauma (marriage, church, scientific medicine/childbirth, work etc). Because mostly they're quite damaged people, and that's reflected in their parenting.

In my generation, it's gone about 50/50 with kids going mainstream and kids staying in the alternative culture. Most of the hippie kids I know got degrees though.

The ones who stayed tend to go more out there, similar to Hellena and Lauren, but a bit more realistic about what the lifestyle involves and a genuine connection to a wider community. My sister and I fit this pattern (guess which one went mainstream......).

As far as the original generation - my experiences are specific to Northern NSW, where the Aquarius Festival and the attendees who never left started the culture. Of the first wave, most don't seem to have been escaping trauma, just the boredom of suburban life. They were, for the most part, from relatively privileged backgrounds - a good sprinkling of the original Nimbin area hippies are from exclusive grammar schools, almost all had at least started tertiary education. Many encountered alternative philosophies at university and were influenced by US hippie culture and pop culture. The notable exception to this is Vietnam veterans seeking a safe community. Many were seeking communal living and spiritual exploration - many of the more spiritually minded ended up around Byron Bay.

The next generation, the ones who showed up when I was a kid, were often escaping issues. There is a documentary about Nimbin where a founding resident says "word got out that you could go to Nimbin and be and do anything you want to. So people came to Nimbin and did whatever they wanted to". That brought hard drugs and crime and some very troubled people and turned Nimbin quite dark for mist of the 90s. Some of my generation returning as adults helped the older generation revitalise it, as did law enforcement leaving pot alone to focus on harder drugs.

[So Many Lies]

Not wanting to expose myself too much but I went to a big public catchment school near Nimbin in the late 80s and most of the Nimbin kids who went (when they bothered) were feral in the extreme. However there was a handful who were pretty nice to be around. One boy who had a girl's name was really into surfing and devastatingly handsome.

[lilith]

Not wanting to expose myself too much but I went to a big public catchment school near Nimbin in the late 80s and most of the Nimbin kids who went (when they bothered) were feral in the extreme. However there was a handful who were pretty nice to be around. One boy who had a girl's name was really into surfing and devastatingly handsome.

Interesting. I went to a smaller public school in the country near Nimbin, with about 70% hippie kids and heavy involvement from alternative lifestyler parents.

There were always a few families on the neglectful/crazy side, but certainly not the majority.

Were the kids you went to school with from transient families? Cause LOTS of dysfunctional hippie families passed in and out of the north coast in the 80s and 90s (like Lauren does now)

[Vex]

If you impress her with your authenticity she may gestate you a Gayby of your very own! I recommend you and your girlfriend dressing exclusively in a fetching shade of purple, maybe one shade removed from each other, cultivating your pubic hair (and dreads, it goes without saying) and impressing Lauren with your plans for raising a free range newborn. A wad of cash, exchanged through the tax free new economy as an energy exchange of love would probably help too.....

Sadly I have neither a girlfriend nor sufficient incentives (-cough cough-) for Lauren to sparkle me up a gayby of my very own. I do have a sort of fuchsia shirt and a nose stud though. Probably not enough.

[lilith]

Sadly I have neither a girlfriend nor sufficient incentives (-cough cough-) for Lauren to sparkle me up a gayby of my very own. I do have a sort fuchsia shirt and a nose stud though. Probably not enough.

Yet a more solid footing in authenticity than Lauren started with. Aspire, Vex, aspire!

[snarkelle]

Interesting. I went to a smaller public school in the country near Nimbin, with about 70% hippie kids and heavy involvement from alternative lifestyler parents.

There were always a few families on the neglectful/crazy side, but certainly not the majority.

Were the kids you went to school with from transient families? Cause LOTS of dysfunctional hippie families passed in and out of the north coast in the 80s and 90s (like Lauren does now)

Love both your insights. Thank you.

[So Many Lies]

Interesting. I went to a smaller public school in the country near Nimbin, with about 70% hippie kids and heavy involvement from alternative lifestyler parents.

There were always a few families on the neglectful/crazy side, but certainly not the majority.

Were the kids you went to school with from transient families? Cause LOTS of dysfunctional hippie families passed in and out of the north coast in the 80s and 90s (like Lauren does now)

oh they could have been. I was a bit of a cowpoke in those days and I didn't hang out with them.

[GiGi_41]

I like ChaoticLife and Lauren have lost a child...I lost my son. I will tell you that about 3 months after his death I did open up my home to another foster boy. It was probably a crazy move but at the time seemed right. I would have adopted him, but he didn't want to stay here. I had to work and I couldn't be a stay at home mom, which is what he needed.

People thought I was trying to replace my son, and maybe in a way I was, but my son and I had already talked about opening up a room when he went to college. So it just seemed like a natural progression. Like I was just finishing what we had decided to do.

I'm not justifying Lauren and her choice to be a surrogate so soon after Elijah's death, but in my case to stay sane I must keep moving forward. I can't stop or the demons overcome me (metaphorically). So I guess in a way I can see where see is coming from, though I don't think I could give up a child that I carried after losing one.

[Vex]

I like ChaoticLife and Lauren have lost a child...I lost my son. I will tell you that about 3 months after his death I did open up my home to another foster boy. It was probably a crazy move but at the time seemed right. I would have adopted him, but he didn't want to stay here. I had to work and I couldn't be a stay at home mom, which is what he needed.

People thought I was trying to replace my son, and maybe in a way I was, but my son and I had already talked about opening up a room when he went to college. So it just seemed like a natural progression. Like I was just finishing what we had decided to do.

I'm not justifying Lauren and her choice to be a surrogate so soon after Elijah's death, but in my case to stay sane I must keep moving forward. I can't stop or the demons overcome me (metaphorically). So I guess in a way I can see where see is coming from, though I don't think I could give up a child that I carried after losing one.

I'd agree with you completely if this weren't Lauren. This is the woman who tells her daughters the murder of her infant was a neutral event and will not allow them to grieve or acknowledge their obvious fear of water following his murder. Lauren hasn't let herself grieve, so how can she be ready to move on?

I can only see this hurting her. I have never been a parent, so I could never imagine what it is like to lose a child, but I can't see how this can be a good thing for her considering her fierce denial of all grief and suffering. She's going to have a baby only to have empty arms again. I imagine this must be different than fostering or adopting, since she'll be physically carrying the baby and then have to suffer the leaking breasts and hormones associated with childbirth (not saying adoption or fostering means any less of a bond with a child, I'm an adopted child myself).

Then again, for a raging narcissist who loves the fertility goddess aspect of motherhood and abhors the actual 'raising the resulting child' part, maybe this is the perfect solution. It's sure to bolster her ego.

[Mama Mia]

I like ChaoticLife and Lauren have lost a child...I lost my son. I will tell you that about 3 months after his death I did open up my home to another foster boy. It was probably a crazy move but at the time seemed right. I would have adopted him, but he didn't want to stay here. I had to work and I couldn't be a stay at home mom, which is what he needed.

People thought I was trying to replace my son, and maybe in a way I was, but my son and I had already talked about opening up a room when he went to college. So it just seemed like a natural progression. Like I was just finishing what we had decided to do.

I'm not justifying Lauren and her choice to be a surrogate so soon after Elijah's death, but in my case to stay sane I must keep moving forward. I can't stop or the demons overcome me (metaphorically). So I guess in a way I can see where see is coming from, though I don't think I could give up a child that I carried after losing one.

I'm so sorry for your loss. The problem I have with what Lauuren is doing isn't about the effect on her, but on her daughters. Who are very, very young, and lost not only their brother, but their father, and in the most confusing and disturbing way possible that I can imagine for a small child. And now their mother is going to grow and give away a new baby brother. I can't imagine that at least one of daughters won't be deeply, deeply disturbed by this. And it blows me away that she says she talked to the girls and got their buy-in first. They are little girls, the youngest is only, what 4? There is no way they could possible understand what this will mean to them emotionally, in light of their brothers death at the hands of their father. And I don't understand how any mother, no matter how self-absorbed, couldn't at least consider that impact and nix this idea - at least for several years.

[Vex]

I'm so sorry for your loss. The problem I have with what Lauuren is doing isn't about the effect on her, but on her daughters. Who are very, very young, and lost not only their brother, but their father, and in the most confusing and disturbing way possible that I can imagine for a small child. And now their mother is going to grow and give away a new baby brother. I can't imagine that at least one of daughters won't be deeply, deeply disturbed by this. And it blows me away that she says she talked to the girls and got their buy-in first. They are little girls, the youngest is only, what 4? There is no way they could possible understand what this will mean to them emotionally, in light of their brothers death at the hands of their father. And I don't understand how any mother, no matter how self-absorbed, couldn't at least consider that impact and nix this idea - at least for several years.

This, so much. Those girls haven't been allowed to express 'negative' emotions about Elijah and how are they going to view this? Even if Lauren is really and truly ready for this experience, how could she possibly know the girls are? If she asked them (big if, imo) of course they're probably going to say it's fine, they know they aren't allowed to have negative emotions or bring up Elijah.

[Porcelina]

This is a new low of fucked up-ness, even for Lauren. The thing I'm most concerned about is some of the posts by one of the dads and how they raise their foster kids. They seem very authoritarian and strict, totally inflexible with set routines which is is the complete opposite of Laurens philosophy (well for the moment anyway, maybe she misses her babywise days. As an "attachment parent" I detest people like her that make the rest of us look like nutjobs). It just seems odd that she'd happily make a baby for someone so far removed from the sort of parent she's trying to be.

Plus, anyone that uses "exercise days" to wear out their kids because they dared to get up during the night (imagine that, a foster child from a messed up home might have problems being alone during the night!) starts ringing some serious abuse alarm bells for me. Sounds like a match made in heaven, they're all crazy.

[bubblekitty]

I've been reading Lauren for years, and FJ for years talking about Lauren and.. when I saw this on Lauren's blog I actually cried. This is a terrible, insane thing. The men are IDIOTS in not taking a huge step back once they knew her history of recent grief in such horrible circumstances. Those poor children and also Lauren's poor family! How will her mum feel losing another grandson, seems very unlikely the couple's supposed love of Lauren is going to include all the other people that are related to this baby. Her sisters, her parents.. they will have the grief of knowing there's a little boy out there they can never call one of their own family. Did she ever think of the pain she would cause them? I doubt it. I doubt she was able to even take into account their grieving and vulnerability after their loss of Elijah.

Those kids are going to grow up and ask why didn't we ever have a real home, real friends who were always there, real education and.. WHY did you give away our brother? Fuck.

If she'd just gotten pregnant and had another baby it would be understandable, a way to deal with the grief and potentially a positive for the kids emotionally. This is just one huge fucking loss for everyone.

How will she top this? Because she is going to want to top it, she's going to get a lot more attention for this than just wandering around the country.

I do not see how she will be able to get on a plane with aching breasts, bleeding womb and empty arms and fly so far far away from the baby. I just can't imagine this.

[bumblebee]

they will have the grief of knowing there's a little boy out there they can never call one of their own family. Did she ever think of the pain she would cause them? I doubt it. I doubt she was able to even take into account their grieving and vulnerability after their loss of Elijah.

This is a really fucked up situation and its going to affect her wider family and rip open a lot of grief about the loss of Elijah, but I would guess that a lot of surrogates have family who think like that or would prefer their relative not be a surrogate, and whilst it wider family feeling should be considered it shouldn't necessarily stop women who can physically and emotionally cope with giving the baby to its new family.

[August]

This is a new low of fucked up-ness, even for Lauren. The thing I'm most concerned about is some of the posts by one of the dads and how they raise their foster kids. They seem very authoritarian and strict, totally inflexible with set routines which is is the complete opposite of Laurens philosophy (well for the moment anyway, maybe she misses her babywise days. As an "attachment parent" I detest people like her that make the rest of us look like nutjobs). It just seems odd that she'd happily make a baby for someone so far removed from the sort of parent she's trying to be.

Plus, anyone that uses "exercise days" to wear out their kids because they dared to get up during the night (imagine that, a foster child from a messed up home might have problems being alone during the night!) starts ringing some serious abuse alarm bells for me. Sounds like a match made in heaven, they're all crazy.

I'm pretty sure she was blown away by the reality of a baby and hated not doing babywise with Elijah. Every post during that period oozed resentment for the demands a normal baby makes on its mother when the mother's actually expected to respond (unlike babywise where you justignore them until it's convenient for you). I got the feeling she regretted signing on to the hippy agenda.

My parenting relies heavily on getting my children exercise to help them sleep better and behave well. Really, it's extremely useful. Foster parents are not allowed to sleep with the children, and I'm sure a gay male couple would feel even more pressure to make sure they follow that rule. Attachment parents have lots of rules and enforce them. No offence, but are your kids very young? My children are school aged, the only difference between me and my non-AP peers is that I carry more snacks and watch bedtime more closely, stand further back while my kids try new things and my reprimands follow a different tack when they break a rule. But then, I'm not really into labels, so who knows what my friends would label themselves or me?

If you want to get all philosophical about it, the difference between AP and not-AP is that AP understands the child will naturally grow out of needs and away from being dependent on you, while non-AP thinks they need to make that happen from day one. Of course they're going to converge as the child matures, and then diverge again for the extreme controlling parents who rely on spanking and shaming and stuff. Maybe using discipline that tries to get them to internalise the rules is AP, but it's the aim of most parents, so maybe most parents end up as AP when their kids are old enough anyway? that's why labels suck. But, in any case, I do know this: gentle discipline does not mean no discipline, it's just more intensive and more effective.

[chaotic life]

I have to totally agree that the main thing about AP versus non-AP as children grow older is the understanding that child will outgrow poor behaviors. That is not to be confused with permissive parenting, though it often is. My children still have LOTS of boundaries and consequences, but I don't take it personally when they act up.

Lauren is NOT an AP mother. She subscribes to TCS, which is a whole other kettle of fish than AP, and often results in exactly the criticisms that have been leveled against Lauren in her lousy, hands-off parenting.

What I can't tell is whether Lauren is in bed with TCS because she loves the philosophy or because she was looking for an excuse to be completely worthless as a mother and TCS gave her permission to give up her responsibilities of parenting like she already wanted to do.

I really think David would have been AP without Lauren's insistance, and that TCS had a lot to do with his going crazier. David was the children's primary caregiver until he was arrested, not Lauren.

I do wonder if Lauren intends to stay in Iceland and pump for six months for the baby. Breastmilk is the one thing I cannot see her finding acceptable that the couple cannot provide for the infant. And, after Elijah her must have breastmilk was solidified as even more vital to her. She likes to get fixated on the details of things, but refuses to see the big picture of her being a worthless mother. It helps her avoid looking at what she is truly doing to those girls when she focuses on the itty bitty details all while being completely detached from basic childcare like hygeine, or even helping Brioni with the bullying she is getting over her hair now.

[August]

I have to totally agree that the main thing about AP versus non-AP as children grow older is the understanding that child will outgrow poor behaviors.

I disagree completely. TCS thinks kids will outgrow poor behaviours, but AP absolutely acknowledges that you need to teach children how to behave, you can't just poor behaviour and be sure they'll grow out of it. The thing about AP is that you're encouraged to consider what the child is capable of in your expectations.

[Cheetah]

What is TCS? Hadn't heard of that one..

[Cheetah]

Just playing devil's advocate here... if Lauren is presenting this to the girls as growing a baby for Ben and Agust, it's their baby but she's just helping out... I wonder if they'll just take that at face value (at least until they are older) and not mind it as much as we think they might? I wonder if there's any research out there from other surrogate families where the surrogate had older kids already... is there any lingering sadness from those older siblings about their mom giving a baby away?

Clearly in this case there are a couple of extra factors... having lost Elijah, and also just that Iceland isn't just a suburb or short drive away from where they live... but I guess I'm curious about whether the kids might just not be as disturbed by this.

[chaotic life]

I don't disagree, August. I was speaking of AP versus non-AP, not versus TCS in my comparison. TCS is Taking Children Seriously, which is what Lauren subscribes to. AP says children outrgrow challenges but parents need to work with them to help them be successful. TCS says children outgrow challenges and thus parents have no responsiblity to parent, and that if parents do attempt to parent they will suppress the child's spirit and the child might not outrgrow the behaviors afterall.

TCS is crazy, CRAZY stuff. It has another name to mask it as well now. I saw very recently Lauren was actually using either TCS in her about me stuff or the other name. I cannot remember the other name right now. But, it's just repackaged TCS. I think it's non-coersive parenting (NCP) or something like that. It's just TCS by a new name because TCS has a bad reputation as giving permission and a load of guilt that you cannot parent your children, or you will inhibit their ability to be free spirits and find their own way. Lauren is NOT AP. She appears AP where TCS/NCP intersects with AP, which is in infant care alone. However, she is not at all AP, but is infact TCS/NCP.