Sparkling Lauren, a super special sparkling surrogacy and a "gayby"

[Annasopinion]

She clearly thinks it's really cool that she has a vegan kid (and that she gets props for letting her kid be a vegan at age 7 or 8 or whatever she is now) ... so she gets kudos from the vegans without actually having to give up her cheese and yogurt.

I'm not sure how a little kid gets the idea for being vegan without some coaching/ exposure to animal rights issues. I know plenty of kids who have decided to be vegetarian... either temporarily or more permanently... because they got grossed out by the idea of killing animals for meat, but it's another leap from there to give up dairy (and, I don't think it's as intuitive, but maybe I'm wrong...)

I thought, and still do think, that its a way for her to stay connected or at least feel emotionally connected to her father as he was a vegan when he killed Elijah. It might have even morphed into a kind of loyalty to him. As for Lauren, I think she is overindulging the whole "vegan choice" thing. I can't see Briony backing out of veganism now anyway - even if she wanted to. But then again I am one of those narrow minded people who thinks that reducing a developing human's identity to that of their FOOD CHOICES is a BAAAD idea. 'Briony is a vegan.' No, being a vegan is a detail of Briony's life. Briony is a child in crisis. Her food choices should not DEFINE her at the ripe old age of ...7

[Annasopinion]

I just read on GOMI that David was raised by The Family International/Children of God, which suddenly makes all the puzzle pieces regarding his mental break fit into place. There are few cults I hate with the same burning as The Family International.

No, this is a whole different organisation (I refuse it call it a 'religion) in Australia and US based and sometimes same or similar named churches or movements like this are expressed very differently here in Australia. I was raised in an offshoot of the SDA church and whilst the mainstream church may be moderate, my experience within my "cult" is that they were BATSHITCRAZY.

I think it's interesting that David who clearly suffers from mental illness became more extreme and more out of touch with reality the more he isolated himself with his family. As for Lauren, she never stood a chance - starting with her father who went from being a Christian Missionary family man saving souls for Jesus in Africa to living in housing commission with his boyfriend in suburban Australia.That is a HUGE U turn on family values. But don't we see Lauren do this all the time? Reinvent herself? Re-authenticate herself? She's gone from Christian wifey on the road to extremist martyr to free love hippy and all in the space of a few years. I desperately worry for her daughters and can only hope that they will be stopped from entering Iceland as it appears that the AUstralian government can do nothing to secure their right to dignity, self respect and safe dwelling as appointed as a Human Right under the UN Declaration on the rights of the child.

[lilith]

No, this is a whole different organisation (I refuse it call it a 'religion) in Australia and US based and sometimes same or similar named churches or movements like this are expressed very differently here in Australia. I was raised in an offshoot of the SDA church and whilst the mainstream church may be moderate, my experience within my "cult" is that they were BATSHITCRAZY.

I think it's interesting that David who clearly suffers from mental illness became more extreme and more out of touch with reality the more he isolated himself with his family. As for Lauren, she never stood a chance - starting with her father who went from being a Christian Missionary family man saving souls for Jesus in Africa to living in housing commission with his boyfriend in suburban Australia.That is a HUGE U turn on family values. But don't we see Lauren do this all the time? Reinvent herself? Re-authenticate herself? She's gone from Christian wifey on the road to extremist martyr to free love hippy and all in the space of a few years. I desperately worry for her daughters and can only hope that they will be stopped from entering Iceland as it appears that the AUstralian government can do nothing to secure their right to dignity, self respect and safe dwelling as appointed as a Human Right under the UN Declaration on the rights of the child.

Just a note - Lauren's dad doesn't live in public housing. He lives in an apartment in a trendy inner city suburb, a few blocks over from one of Sydney's roughest housing commission developments and one of the few that remains in the inner city.

[So Many Lies]

Annasopinion! I was wondering if you'd be back I thought it was you who predicted the surrogacy. (?)I suspected the surrogacy when I saw that pic of the "mummy kangaroos". That just set bells ringing for me!

Anyway, I don't think worldwide church of God is that bad. I have some firsthand experience with them (friend's family) and I didn't find them out of the ordinary for a pentecostal church. They do speaking in tongues and stuff but I've seen that before.

[So Many Lies]

What has always fascinated me about Lauren is that she is a highly functioning mentally unwell woman - her "relationship" with David played out like a game of two mentally unstable people playing brinkmanship (and that YouTube video was genuinely disturbing) as it shows a relationship dynamic where they 'report" on each other to the wider world. I don't know who they think is keeping score of their mentally ill games, but obviously they assume someone is. As for Lauren right now, I didn't think she could up one on David after he killed Elijah but I underestimated her. A surrogacy - a son she chooses to give away, definitely is one upmanship over David and it tells me that she still has one eye on him as he's watching her. Their dynamic is obviously still running. Which begs the question - when she returns home with her four daughters and her global gayby daddies aren't all that interested in her or her kids anymore, and the depression sets in - then what?

I'm no psychologist - amateur, armchair or otherwise - but I'd agree lauren giving a baby to a gay couple would be a rather jarring state of affairs to David. What's his next move? Suicide perhaps.

If your theory is true it's diabolical.

And it does make me wonder if Lauren ever had a belief in God or if that was just a mask.

[So Many Lies]

I always welcome insight about David because I'm genuinely confused about his state of mind. I saw him as a loving parent. I know they had certain beliefs about God and fatalism though, which lead to some neglectful parenting but even his yelling out in church didn't really raise a red flag to me. Maybe I've travelled in a few weird circles but one boyfriend I had left a church in a huff over an interpretation of Matthew 9:12.

Anyway someone suggested it was drugs. Or was it schizophrenia?

[August]

Mamamia, you won't be surprised to hear that Lauren take any particular care with Brioni's diet. She's not really fussed about labels and ingredients and vitamins and stuff. Case in point - she wrote a blog about how she just lets the kids eat whatever, including some fake meat seitan sausages, but not on rolls because she's gluten free.

The cunning amongst you will recognise that seitan is pure gluten. Yay Lauren. You so smart!

But then, this was when she was in the depths of her depression and mourning for Elijah and not sleeping, so she couldn't have been expected to be making good decisions. Not like a couple of months later after she was completely over him and ready to commit to a surrogacy with clear heart and mind.

SML, I heard of people having psychotic breaks set off by drugs. I think the fact he's been in a mental institution sonce the murder is pretty conclusive that he's sick.

[lilith]

I always welcome insight about David because I'm genuinely confused about his state of mind. I saw him as a loving parent. I know they had certain beliefs about God and fatalism though, which lead to some neglectful parenting but even his yelling out in church didn't really raise a red flag to me. Maybe I've travelled in a few weird circles but one boyfriend I had left a church in a huff over an interpretation of Matthew 9:12.

Anyway someone suggested it was drugs. Or was it schizophrenia?

Possibly both? They had just started moving in circles where pot was common during Lauren's pregnancy - they probably didn't experiment with it til after Elijah's birth. Pot can trigger psychosis in people pre disposed to mental illness, and it seems that David had been exhibiting symptoms of some kind of psychiatric disorder for quite some time - starting to smoke pot could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Marijuana and associated paraphernalia was removed from the home when David was arrested.

[utter solitude]

Mamamia, you won't be surprised to hear that Lauren take any particular care with Brioni's diet. She's not really fussed about labels and ingredients and vitamins and stuff. Case in point - she wrote a blog about how she just lets the kids eat whatever, including some fake meat seitan sausages, but not on rolls because she's gluten free.

The cunning amongst you will recognise that seitan is pure gluten. Yay Lauren. You so smart!

But then, this was when she was in the depths of her depression and mourning for Elijah and not sleeping, so she couldn't have been expected to be making good decisions. Not like a couple of months later after she was completely over him and ready to commit to a surrogacy with clear heart and mind.

Lauren is truly a "hey this is cool!" basic understanding bandwaggoner. Before I researched what gluten is, I assumed you just stayed away from grains (I don't need a gluten-free diet, so I never bothered.... until learning my goddaughter needed one) It seems like Lauren has this basic understanding of this stuff. Gluten = wheat. I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of thinking applies to her daughter's veganism. I'm sure she knows that popular veganism = no animal products, but does she actually do the research on most food to determine if it's vegan friendly? I highly doubt it.

Or hell, maybe she does, and I've missed some "look at all the time we spend finding vegan foods! I'm the best mom!" posts. -.-

[Eternalbluepearl]

WOW to the poster who said David and Lauren engaged in oneupmanship in their marriage! That is so true, that really explains their odd dynamic well.

I re-read an old blog post about the Fishers visiting David's brother and he abruptly telling them to leave his property. Lauren couldn't understand what they had done to offend him. One thing that has always bothered me about Lauren and David: they seem to be two kids playing at a lifestyle that isn't true for them. Like they packed up a truck one day and decided to pretend to be homeless. And brought the kids along to boot. I think that is in fact the most inauthentic thing about them, they could have gone home rather than caring that a relative or friend didn't like them squatting in their front yard. It was all a game and continues to be one. The purpose? I have no clue. Only David and Lauren seem to know or perhaps even they don't know at this point. Why not just live in your own house and take trips often? Why do you have to pretend to need the kindness of others and their yards? It's nonsense for the sake of nonsense.

[Cheetah]

While we are armchair-analyzing Lauren and David, I'm curious about Lauren's mother... not sure if her name is Manou or if that's just what Lauren and the girls call her. Would love to her more about her... is she still super-religious? Has she made any attempt to save those girls from Lauren? What kind of woman packs her 6 year old off to boarding school, and does she regret that now or does she still see her work as a missionary as something more important than raising her own kids.

[utter solitude]

While we are armchair-analyzing Lauren and David, I'm curious about Lauren's mother... not sure if her name is Manou or if that's just what Lauren and the girls call her. Would love to her more about her... is she still super-religious? Has she made any attempt to save those girls from Lauren? What kind of woman packs her 6 year old off to boarding school, and does she regret that now or does she still see her work as a missionary as something more important than raising her own kids.

OT: Is this your opinion on all boarding-school situations?

[chaotic life]

Whether she wanted to send her 6 year olds off to boarding school or not, that was the requirement and expectation at that point in time with field missionary work. Also, Lauren's two sisters are highly successful, normal and well adjusted adults, the same as most MKs.

She was involved with Lauren and the girls when Elijah died. I believe T least one report said Lauren called her mother before calling the authorities.

She's been less involved in recent times, but that could easily be Lauren's doing, just as she's become estranged from her sisters.

[bumblebee]

I was at boarding school at 7 because of my father's work and I adored it. (I also had very loving parents) some kids at my school (Wycombe Abbey) had parents overseas for various reasons, some lived less than 1 hour away but wanted their kids to be there because it was a good school. It's not always ideal but it doesn't necessarily mean the parent is disinterested or prioritising other thing s than their kids, when I showed a prospective family around the school one kid was desperate to be there because our mock gothic mansion "reminded" her of Hogwarts (nothing like it in real life) but it was a kind of "jolly hockey sticks" place.

I have ancestors who were "empire builders" and they would have thought it morally wrong to keep their kids in non European climates. Sending them back to go to the best schools and be brought up in England away from them was an act of sacrifice, today many people think of it as an at best misguided understanding, but its not dead.

[Cheetah]

OT: Is this your opinion on all boarding-school situations?

At 6? Yes, sorry if that sounds harsh. Six is really young to me.

[utter solitude]

At 6? Yes, sorry if that sounds harsh. Six is really young to me.

You don't need to apologize for yourself, I was just curious. :D I find your opinion interesting, as I had a friend when I was a small child who went to a boarding school as his parents felt he wasn't going to get a good education where they lived. He wasn't terribly far away, but it was hard for everyone involved, but the family saw it as a necessary sacrifice.

[momof2treasures]

I would move before sending my 6 year old away to boarding school. I find that incredibly sad. I wanted kids and I intend to be there every morning , for every nightmare and every sick day. I can't even imagine....

[utter solitude]

I would move before sending my 6 year old away to boarding school. I find that incredibly sad. I wanted kids and I intend to be there every morning , for every nightmare and every sick day. I can't even imagine....

I don't know the entire story, but apparently moving was not an option. They did what they felt was best for their son, and I respect that. I don't know what choice I would make in a situation like that, and I hope I never face it.

[Cheetah]

One of my daughter's friends went to boarding school for high school. We are on the West Coast and it's just not that common here... I think it's much more common in Europe and on the East Coast... but even that... from the kid's perspective I'm sure it's great (in the right situation) and completely fine but as a parent I was not/am not ready to basically have my kid move out already at age 14.

Backing that up a few years, I understand why it's done younger (parents in high-powered jobs overseas). I am sure the more outgoing kids at the better schools really thrive. We are all homebodies and introverts and I just can't imagine my kids coping very well at the elementary level. Middle school maybe...

[Mama Mia]

I think the boarding school issue is fascinating. I would love if someone would start an Ask Me Anything thread about it.

Obviously no one is saying little kids who are sent to boarding school can't turn out perfectly fine - just like kids raided in virtually every possible system, and m sure many thrive - just like kids in virtually every possible system.

But the idea of sending a small child away to live, on purpose, and that it's even seen as a positive is so far out of my experience, that I do wonder how that all works. In my frame of reference a six year old is still a baby! They cuddle all the time, and get tucked in and need help doing their hair and cry if they scrape their knee and run for a kiss.......

I guess it's a system that would definitely encourage independence, and self-restraint, but it seems, to me, like it would really be hard on developing attachments. I guess it would value decision making based on your head, not your heart? And obviously the people who have used this system seem to do damned well on an economic/rule the world level. But especially for the missionary kids-- wouldn't they be massively confused as to why they have to live away from their parents, while their parents are spending all their time helping other people's kids?

Not trying to offend anyone, but it is really interesting because it is so different than most people's experience. I don't think I've met anyone in real life who went to a boarding school ( except those " therapeutic" schools for wayward teens)

[anjulibai]

Sending kids away at very young ages used to be standard procedure for a lot of upper class/noble families. Usually children were sent to royal courts for the children to get better educations, with the girls focusing on courtly manners and the boys on physical activities, like riding, fighting and sports. It was considered essential children to get that experience, and often children would be gone for years from a very young age. It doesn't seem to have caused a ton of problems.

[utter solitude]

I think the boarding school issue is fascinating. I would love if someone would start an Ask Me Anything thread about it.

Obviously no one is saying little kids who are sent to boarding school can't turn out perfectly fine - just like kids raided in virtually every possible system, and m sure many thrive - just like kids in virtually every possible system.

But the idea of sending a small child away to live, on purpose, and that it's even seen as a positive is so far out of my experience, that I do wonder how that all works. In my frame of reference a six year old is still a baby! They cuddle all the time, and get tucked in and need help doing their hair and cry if they scrape their knee and run for a kiss.......

I guess it's a system that would definitely encourage independence, and self-restraint, but it seems, to me, like it would really be hard on developing attachments. I guess it would value decision making based on your head, not your heart? And obviously the people who have used this system seem to do damned well on an economic/rule the world level. But especially for the missionary kids-- wouldn't they be massively confused as to why they have to live away from their parents, while their parents are spending all their time helping other people's kids?

Not trying to offend anyone, but it is really interesting because it is so different than most people's experience. I don't think I've met anyone in real life who went to a boarding school ( except those " therapeutic" schools for wayward teens)

I agree that it's a fascinating topic. I love learning about other people experiences and their opinions and why they have them.

The friend I mentioned above was/is always appreciative of the choice his parents made. I think he understands that they made the right choice in their minds, and that's all he's ever needed. He was seven at the time, but I've never asked him about how he adjusted.

I'll have to ask him about experience there, and maybe other stories he's heard.

Now, of course, that's very different than being a missionary and sending your kid elsewhere, there's a whole other mindset/set of questions involved.

[snarkelle]

Re boarding school not seeming to have caused a ton of problems... (Sorry I don't know how to quote on a phone)... This suggests the opposite

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... e-children

I think there's definitely a connection between Lauren's chaotic adult attachments and being separated from her parents starting age 6. It's very sad. Her sisters seemed to do ok(?though their shit isn't all over the interwebZ so who knows) but presumably they were older when they were sent, or maybe they didn't have some trait vulnerability that she did.

[bionicmlle]

I think boarding school may be a positive experience for Lauren's children at this point, depending on the structure.

I went to boarding school in high school, so a completely different experience than in childhood, but it was definitely not horrible. I'm not sure there's enough interesting info to do an AMA but I don't mind starting a thread if you guys want....?

[Cheetah]

Re boarding school not seeming to have caused a ton of problems... (Sorry I don't know how to quote on a phone)... This suggests the opposite

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... e-children

That was so sad.