Sparkling Lauren, a super special sparkling surrogacy and a "gayby"

[Annasopinion]

Annasopinion! I was wondering if you'd be back I thought it was you who predicted the surrogacy. (?)I suspected the surrogacy when I saw that pic of the "mummy kangaroos". That just set bells ringing for me!

Anyway, I don't think worldwide church of God is that bad. I have some firsthand experience with them (friend's family) and I didn't find them out of the ordinary for a pentecostal church. They do speaking in tongues and stuff but I've seen that before.

DID I? I better check through my old posts because I really can't remember right now. I was more interested in the mentally ill dynamic going on, lauren is a fascinating study and surrogacy fits RIGHT IN with her martyr complex.

As for churches, they can be dramatically different depending on which area your're in, this is even true with cults.

I've just checked and yes I did predict a new baby in the van - that was back on october 24th 2013. Mind you, even I didn't think she's give it away.

[acheronbeach]

Late to the topic, but as a vegetarian who spent quite a while in Iceland, it's not an easy place to eat vegan (or even veg, for that matter). Outside Reykjavik, little Brioni will be SOL. Even Akureyri is pretty slim on vegan options.

When I was there, I lived off one of the few vegetarian brands of Skyr and imported Danish vegie dogs (they weren't vegan) that you can get in the capital.

[Annasopinion]

Late to the topic, but as a vegetarian who spent quite a while in Iceland, it's not an easy place to eat vegan (or even veg, for that matter). Outside Reykjavik, little Brioni will be SOL. Even Akureyri is pretty slim on vegan options.

When I was there, I lived off one of the few vegetarian brands of Skyr and imported Danish vegie dogs (they weren't vegan) that you can get in the capital.

I don't think Lauren will be in Iceland for very long. In fact, it might even be possible that she won't give birth there. Has anyone considered that surrogacy is illegal in iceland? Having lived in Norway for 6 months, I can attest that Iceland is a small place where everyone knows each other - her gayby daddies will not be anonymous by any means and I wonder if she is posting info on her blog to throw us off the scent to what she is really doing. Afterall, they were blogging ANONYMOUSLY and so was she...why the sudden change? I doubt she would put her arrangement in jeopardy by blogging the truth. I have no doubt she will head to scandinavia much earlier than she has indicated. Further, surrogacy is really hitting the headlines right now and I think that Iceland will be looking out for Lauren and her merrily neglected band of children because she is breaking the law. Notifying the Iceland commissioner is as easy as one email. It's curious that, clearly knowing this - all three adults have gone 'public' which makes we wonder what they're really up to...

[utter solitude]

I don't think Lauren will be in Iceland for very long. In fact, it might even be possible that she won't give birth there. Has anyone considered that surrogacy is illegal in iceland? Having lived in Norway for 6 months, I can attest that Iceland is a small place where everyone knows each other - her gayby daddies will not be anonymous by any means and I wonder if she is posting info on her blog to throw us off the scent to what she is really doing. Afterall, they were blogging ANONYMOUSLY and so was she...why the sudden change? I doubt she would put her arrangement in jeopardy by blogging the truth. I have no doubt she will head to scandinavia much earlier than she has indicated. Further, surrogacy is really hitting the headlines right now and I think that Iceland will be looking out for Lauren and her merrily neglected band of children because she is breaking the law. Notifying the Iceland commissioner is as easy as one email. It's curious that, clearly knowing this - all three adults have gone 'public' which makes we wonder what they're really up to...

Your totally valid point is very fuddled by the fact that the baby's biological father is one of the goldstar gays. I'm not familiar with the law in this situation, or Iceland, but it seems to me that there's still basic rights the father has to his child, and Lauren can easily claim they've agreed he's going to raise the baby.

[Annasopinion]

WOW to the poster who said David and Lauren engaged in oneupmanship in their marriage! That is so true, that really explains their odd dynamic well.

I re-read an old blog post about the Fishers visiting David's brother and he abruptly telling them to leave his property. Lauren couldn't understand what they had done to offend him. One thing that has always bothered me about Lauren and David: they seem to be two kids playing at a lifestyle that isn't true for them. Like they packed up a truck one day and decided to pretend to be homeless. And brought the kids along to boot. I think that is in fact the most inauthentic thing about them, they could have gone home rather than caring that a relative or friend didn't like them squatting in their front yard. It was all a game and continues to be one. The purpose? I have no clue. Only David and Lauren seem to know or perhaps even they don't know at this point. Why not just live in your own house and take trips often? Why do you have to pretend to need the kindness of others and their yards? It's nonsense for the sake of nonsense.

I am that poster and I think many people who've followed her for years saw this too - they maybe don't know about freejingher. I certainly didn't. And I'm not a normal freejinger user in that I am still religious. I've been following Lauren's blog for years, I find her very interesting as we had similar upbringings and I know many men like David and many women like Lauren - they seem to be re-occurring personality traits that result from certain types of religious upbringings. I don't hate Lauren - far from it. I would welcome her to stay with me if I had the ability to do so (I live in an apartment) because I think that underneath everything, she is a woman trying to find her level and probably genuinely believes what she is following. That said, I think she is suffering from a sincere and long standing mental illness and that whilst she was playing a game with David when they were together, she is now still playing a game but the dynamic has changed to Lauren vs Cruel world ..and defeats her enemy with a sage smudge stick, affirmations and soy yoghurt.

If you read the blog from the beginning you can see them both of them slide into religious extremism, then neglect self care for high ideas and absolute thinking and then finally descend into a spiral of their own bullshit which reached its peak when Elijah was murdered. Before his death, Lauren was questioning things a lot more, after his death she is much more of an extreme or absolute thinker. Her daughters are the real concern. They look so unkempt, dirty and neglected - such a contrast to her early blogging days. And more interestingly, whilst Lauren thinks she is allowing them to be 'authentic' I see signals of self shame and low self esteem, all the girls shy away from contact with civilised humans - they cant mix with anyone who isn't like them - a real concern.

This whole surrogacy is nothing less than a manifestation of her mental illness and I predict that once the gayby daddies have their baby, Lauren will not find the loving warm, embracing welcome she thinks she's earned. I wonder how long the daddies will put up with her brood of daughters once their own precious son has arrived? I seriously doubt that love affair will last. Unlike some commentators, I do think Lauren will give away her son - she will be under enormous pressure to do so, I think the shit will hit the fan when she returns to australia and is again alone with her daughters and without someone taking specific and concerned interest in her, as the daddies are doing right now.

I think that will be the danger period and it worries me because she has trumped David killing Elijah, but i dont know how she can trump giving away another son. It's a disturbing scenario and I worry for her. I predicted she would have another baby back in October, well I wish I was right and that this was a baby she was keeping. Surrogacy will be a disastrous outcome her for and I am sincerely worried.

[Annasopinion]

Your totally valid point is very fuddled by the fact that the baby's biological father is one of the goldstar gays. I'm not familiar with the law in this situation, or Iceland, but it seems to me that there's still basic rights the father has to his child, and Lauren can easily claim they've agreed he's going to raise the baby.

Yes, which father? And there is proof it is a surrogacy from her blog which is a public open document where she states she is giving her baby away. Also, what about the birth certificate? I understands everyone expects that she is going to give birth and then just leave the baby behind - and she probably will. But she'll have to enter Iceland first. If she is stopped after arriving with the purpose to give birth, then she may find herself in a legally troubling scenario. As entering iceland for the purpose of giving birth to give a baby away is illegal. I doubt she will do as she says on her blog - she will blog one thing and then do something else to stop herself being caught. If it was all fine and dandy - then WHY did they have to hide their identities on the gayby blog?

[Annasopinion]

I can only hope that she will be stopped at whatever scandinavian airport she arrives at under suspicion of illegal surrogacy activity. That is the only hope I have for her daughters and unborn son- that this becomes a big enough issue so that the spotlight is put on her and DOCS finally have to to something to save those beautiful girls of hers.

[utter solitude]

Yes, which father? And there is proof it is a surrogacy from her blog which is a public open document where she states she is giving her baby away. Also, what about the birth certificate? I understands everyone expects that she is going to give birth and then just leave the baby behind - and she probably will. But she'll have to enter Iceland first. If she is stopped after arriving with the purpose to give birth, then she may find herself in a legally troubling scenario. As entering iceland for the purpose of giving birth to give a baby away is illegal. I doubt she will do as she says on her blog - she will blog one thing and then do something else to stop herself being caught. If it was all fine and dandy - then WHY did they have to hide their identities on the gayby blog?

If you take her blog as proof it's a "surrogacy", you must also take it as proof that one of the men is the biological father. (I believe it is the Icelandic man, correct me if my tipsy mind is wrong) If this is true, she is giving the child to its father, which is not quite the same as a more traditional surrogacy. Would Iceland still stop her in light of that fact?

To the identity thing, maybe the fathers wanted to be anonymous on the gayby site. They have every right to do so. I don't recall a post from Lauren on her blog using false names, it's entirely probable they stopped caring or she convinced them.

Honestly, I suspect it was planned this way, with using Lauren's egg and one of the guys' sperm, just to get around the legal issues. A child has a right to be with its biological father, and they can play that card.

I think it's also easy to overestimate the popularity of Lauren's blog. I have literally never heard of her until recently. I don't know how much notoriety she has in Australia, or if Icelandic officials would really be aware of her before she enters the country, or even be of a mind to stop her given all the facts.

[Annasopinion]

I always welcome insight about David because I'm genuinely confused about his state of mind. I saw him as a loving parent. I know they had certain beliefs about God and fatalism though, which lead to some neglectful parenting but even his yelling out in church didn't really raise a red flag to me. Maybe I've travelled in a few weird circles but one boyfriend I had left a church in a huff over an interpretation of Matthew 9:12.

Anyway someone suggested it was drugs. Or was it schizophrenia?

Me either - I guess I'm weird too. Or certainly in the minority here. Its not the interpretive issues that are a red flag - but the fact that when David and Lauren get together, they play brinkmanship and then one upmanship against each other all the time. They spur each other on to high levels of extremism and isolated thinking and then both of them starting sliding into crazy.

David killed Elijah during a "baptism" gone wrong - at least this is something I read at the time and I find it interesting that he would need to sanctify his only son. From a bridge. He wasn't in his right mind. The blog is a sad narrative of how he go there. Both of them display unchecked, pseudo critical thinking that continues to escalate. I doubt Lauren has anyone in her life that questions her, she probably surrounds herself entirely with this bullshit hippy types that are all for anything - as long as they don't have to pay for it.

[Annasopinion]

If you take her blog as proof it's a "surrogacy", you must also take it as proof that one of the men is the biological father. (I believe it is the Icelandic man, correct me if my tipsy mind is wrong) If this is true, she is giving the child to its father, which is not quite the same as a more traditional surrogacy. Would Iceland still stop her in light of that fact?

To the identity thing, maybe the fathers wanted to be anonymous on the gayby site. They have every right to do so. I don't recall a post from Lauren on her blog using false names, it's entirely probable they stopped caring or she convinced them.

Honestly, I suspect it was planned this way, with using Lauren's egg and one of the guys' sperm, just to get around the legal issues. A child has a right to be with its biological father, and they can play that card.

I think it's also easy to overestimate the popularity of Lauren's blog. I have literally never heard of her until recently. I don't know how much notoriety she has in Australia, or if Icelandic officials would really be aware of her before she enters the country, or even be of a mind to stop her given all the facts.

You're probably right

[utter solitude]

I know very, very little about the issues at play here. I don't know jack about surrogacy in any form, and even less about Iceland.

However, I know these two men want a baby enough to use Lauren to do it. And I believe Lauren is manipulative enough and smart enough to stick to a "we're going to see the baby's father, he's going to raise the child" story if it comes to it. There's so many factors at play in this trainwreck, so many possible outcomes and intentions and motives... it's hard to tell.

[Mama Mia]

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that she will deliver and give this baby to the biological father and his husband.

I think in Iceland because:

a)I highly doubt that any authority is going to be on the look out for her

b) even if they did ask her a bunch of questions she does have a perfectly plausible reason for being there and

c) even if the screener or other authority was, on the off-chance aware of her blog and the whole questionable legal issues - no busy worker in their right mind is going to want to wade into the sloppy, confused morass of paperwork and media attention it would generate to detain her or not allow her in. It isn't something clearcut. The baby daddy is the actual baby daddy. There laws are currently under review, and are in the process of legalizing some form of surrogacy. And they have had cases with a much more clear surrogacy arrangement where the baby was allowed to come to Iceland ( third party paid surrogate with the baby born in India). It's too messy and fuzzy. If someone, for some reason, wanted to die on the cross over surrogacy and it's legality, this is not the case any sane person would pick.

I also predict that she will go back to Australia and get pregnant again within a year and keep the next baby.

[Mama Mia]

Sending kids away at very young ages used to be standard procedure for a lot of upper class/noble families. Usually children were sent to royal courts for the children to get better educations, with the girls focusing on courtly manners and the boys on physical activities, like riding, fighting and sports. It was considered essential children to get that experience, and often children would be gone for years from a very young age. It doesn't seem to have caused a ton of problems.

Yes, because the upper class and noble families of the past are well known for their compassion and empathy for other human beings who aren't of their class or culture. :?

I'm sure many children love it. I'm sure most are resilient enough to grow into perfectly stable, well-rounded human beings. But I think it is also at least as likely to cause long-term emotional issues as any of the other extremist forms of parenting we discuss here. And even if you are talking about something that is common practice for some segments of society, those are still a very small sub-set of people. I also think there is a huge difference between sending off a six year old and a 12 year old.

[snarkelle]

Yes, because the upper class and noble families of the past are well known for their compassion and empathy for other human beings who aren't of their class or culture. :?

I'm sure many children love it. I'm sure most are resilient enough to grow into perfectly stable, well-rounded human beings. But I think it is also at least as likely to cause long-term emotional issues as any of the other extremist forms of parenting we discuss here. And even if you are talking about something that is common practice for some segments of society, those are still a very small sub-set of people. I also think there is a huge difference between sending off a six year old and a 12 year old.

Indeed! This article about the British Tory party speaks to what kind of leaders come out of boarding school.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... s-bumblers

I was particularly struck by this, which seems quite applicable to Lauren:

"Boarding children invariably construct a survival personality that endures long after school and operates strategically. On rigid timetables, in rule-bound institutions, they must be ever alert to staying out of trouble. Crucially, they must not look unhappy, childish or foolish – in any way vulnerable – or they will be bullied by their peers. So they dissociate from all these qualities, project them out on to others, and develop duplicitous personalities that are on the run, which is why ex-boarders make the best spies.

Now attached to this internal structure instead of a parent, the boarding child survives, but takes into adulthood a permanent unconscious anxiety and will rarely develop what Daniel Goleman calls emotional intelligence. In adulthood he sticks to the same tactics: whenever he senses a threat of being made to look foolish, he will strike."

I know she was sent to boarding school because her parents were missionaries, but the message it would have given her is no different from the child of a captain of industry: "You're less important than my work and your emotional needs don't matter."

[chaotic life]

Honestly, I think Lauren will surrender this child to the father and his husband. I just fear the post-par rum psychosis and the risk of her ultimate one-upmanship by becoming a family annihilator spree killer like Andrea Yates.

[Antimony]

Possibly both? They had just started moving in circles where pot was common during Lauren's pregnancy - they probably didn't experiment with it til after Elijah's birth. Pot can trigger psychosis in people pre disposed to mental illness, and it seems that David had been exhibiting symptoms of some kind of psychiatric disorder for quite some time - starting to smoke pot could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Marijuana and associated paraphernalia was removed from the home when David was arrested.

a) I did not know this about pot. My former housemate used to smoke pot up to four times a day and then became inexplicabily violent -- trying to break windows, hit me, pushed me down the stairs, etc. I was very confused because I mean, I've had the weeds myself, ya dig, but I couldn't understand how you could be so *mellow* and so violent at the same time (but she was one many an antidepressant at the same time. So am/was I but I NEVER smoked daily, I smoked like I drink, as recreational activity and never as a daily must-have-or-will-get-antsy thing like she did.)

b) I had a friend who went to boarding school (catholic) on the west coast and what shocks me most about that is that she says that drugs/alcohol were rampant. She walked in one girls snorting cocaine regularly.

I went to a public, impoverished high school and no such thing happened. I don't know much about boarding schools but her stories totally blew my mind.

c) All that said, that art is not only not appropriate but just downright offensive. I haven't eaten farmed meat in years and still, animal suffering should never be equated with animal suffering because it is, in a word, dehumanizing of groups that have been tortured in the ways this artist is trying to draw parallels to. I might cry more when a dog dies in a movie than a human, but in reality, this kind of holocaust parallel is offensive at best, dehumanizing, and really isn't want many vegetarians/vegans want to be represented as believing in. Even beyond this, Laurens empty "I hope I can be so sacrificing" writings are just that --- empty. Either do it, or don't. I personally believe that the world would be a better place if we all ate less meat (meat at every meal seems overkill to me, now, though it is very common as an expectation in America.) but I don't expect the entire world to take up vegetarian or vegan practice.

[shedemei]

The ad I'm getting for this thread is "fairy dust, pixy dust, surrogacy mother." How appropriate.

[Rachel333]

Regarding drugs and mental illness, it is extremely common for people with schizophrenia (other mental illnesses too, but it has been especially noted with schizophrenics) to self-medicate with drugs or other substances. It has been suggested that this may be the case for some people with drug-induced schizophrenia; the schizophrenia came first and the drugs were a way to self-medicate.

I suspect this might be the case with the brother of a fundie acquaintance. He was raised home-schooled and conservative, so his family was shocked when he ended up in the psych ward, psychotic and on drugs. They blamed it solely on the drugs (even before her brother's psychotic break this acquaintance had been very adamant that mental illness is caused by sin, never anything else), but it turned out they had a schizophrenic uncle and a few others in the family line.

[16strong]

I doubt Lauren has anyone in her life that questions her, she probably surrounds herself entirely with this bullshit hippy types that are all for anything - as long as they don't have to pay for it.

I don't buy that nobody has questioned Lauren before. Likely many people have, but when they do, she packs up and leaves. She has stayed with family, even very recently. You can't tell me that none of them have said something. She uses them for housing and resources until she can't stand them, and then leaves. A few months/years later, she will show up again and act like the whole rift never happened and do the same thing over again. I also have a feeling that family take them in when they can to keep an eye on the girls' well-being.

[DaffyDill]

I don't buy that nobody has questioned Lauren before. Likely many people have, but when they do, she packs up and leaves. She has stayed with family, even very recently. You can't tell me that none of them have said something. She uses them for housing and resources until she can't stand them, and then leaves. A few months/years later, she will show up again and act like the whole rift never happened and do the same thing over again. I also have a feeling that family take them in when they can to keep an eye on the girls' well-being.

I agree 16strong. I think questioning by her family has led to her apparent estrangement from both her sisters and her mother (Manou). Laurens sisters were both at Elijah's "unfuneral", as was her mother and I'm sure there were photos on the blog of them all. Since then, the sisters and Manou have disappeared from both the blog, and presumably Lauren's life. Manou used to comment on the blog fairly regularly, but I haven't seen a comment from her for quite a while. Lauren's older sister is a doctor in NSW, and Lauren would visit her when she was in the area, but this doesn't seem to happen anymore either.

If her sisters and mother were to question the conditions in which Lauren was forcing the girls to live, I don't doubt she woukd pack up and leave not only their house, but their lives as well.

[So Many Lies]

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that she will deliver and give this baby to the biological father and his husband.

I think in Iceland because:

a)I highly doubt that any authority is going to be on the look out for her

b) even if they did ask her a bunch of questions she does have a perfectly plausible reason for being there and

c) even if the screener or other authority was, on the off-chance aware of her blog and the whole questionable legal issues - no busy worker in their right mind is going to want to wade into the sloppy, confused morass of paperwork and media attention it would generate to detain her or not allow her in. It isn't something clearcut. The baby daddy is the actual baby daddy. There laws are currently under review, and are in the process of legalizing some form of surrogacy. And they have had cases with a much more clear surrogacy arrangement where the baby was allowed to come to Iceland ( third party paid surrogate with the baby born in India). It's too messy and fuzzy. If someone, for some reason, wanted to die on the cross over surrogacy and it's legality, this is not the case any sane person would pick.

I also predict that she will go back to Australia and get pregnant again within a year and keep the next baby.

She will give the baby over.

But I doubt she has another baby "to keep" because babies are hard work. Won't suit the lifestyle. Her other kids can entertain themselves and free range. A baby would totally cramp her style.

[So Many Lies]

I agree 16strong. I think questioning by her family has led to her apparent estrangement from both her sisters and her mother (Manou). Laurens sisters were both at Elijah's "unfuneral", as was her mother and I'm sure there were photos on the blog of them all. Since then, the sisters and Manou have disappeared from both the blog, and presumably Lauren's life. Manou used to comment on the blog fairly regularly, but I haven't seen a comment from her for quite a while. Lauren's older sister is a doctor in NSW, and Lauren would visit her when she was in the area, but this doesn't seem to happen anymore either.

If her sisters and mother were to question the conditions in which Lauren was forcing the girls to live, I don't doubt she woukd pack up and leave not only their house, but their lives as well.

Yes where is manou now?

I doubt she's all cool with these developments. Strange, this authentic business.

Apparently it's only authentic to broadcast the beliefs of those who agree with you. I would have thought at least discussing or mentioning dissent would be more authentic. But hey, I'm a total franger.

The hippies she hangs out with probably don't ask any questions beyond, "hey what brand is that soy yogurt"? Most of them come across as very inadequate people if you as me. They hide behind the Gestalt prayer ideology but really they are refugees from life.

I admit I like Hellena a bit but eventually Lauren will ditch her over some real or perceived slight too.

[Flossie]

I've worried for a while now that Lauren would eventually commit suicide in a public and dramatic fashion. I've worried even worse that she would also take her kids with her when she checked out.

[Coco]

i just couldn't get over how happy her parents looked at the unfuneral. I understand that it was probably to try to keep their daughter as sane as possible by putting on a brave front, but it seems like actual smiles, not a "he's in a better place" bittersweet kind of smile.

with her dad and sisters:

At first i thought the older lady with short hair was her mom, but she never mentions her mom in the post. It's just difficult to believe that anyone would look that happy carrying a small child's casket. :|

Boarding school friends who came to the unfuneral:

All those years of separating from my parents as I went to boarding school have taught me how to handle the grief that seems overwhelming. The sorrow I felt as a child has been formative in shaping my parenting ethos, and now I can see that the mental skills I perfected at an early age will serve me well at this time.

For I have a life to live, and four other lives to guide in a path of love and hope. So I buried my only son today, but our lives continue, and as a smaller family unit, we move into the next phase of our sparkling adventures together.

sparklingadventures.com/index.php?id=1657 (the unfuneral at a park)

sparklingadventures.com/index.php?id=1652 (at the burial)

[lilith]

That is Manou with the short grey hair.

Lauren's determination to shut grief out of Elijah's funeral is bizarre, but if she was in full fledged denial at that point nobody would blame her. Refusing to allow her daughters to grieve a few years later is a different matter.