Budgets of Botkin and other royal fundie weddings

[PBrooke]

My husband and I came from families who loved and supported us... but moved out of state while we were in college. To different states. And neither of us grew up in well-to-do families. So we could either have our wedding in the state we both grew up in, lived in and all our friends were, and our entire families would have to shell out to come (and I have a large, poor family)... or we could choose one of the states where parents were and then the other one's family and all our friends would have to travel... it was a headache and a half. We were already living together. So we said eff it. We told our families we were probably going to get married soon, then we went and got it done. Just the two of us, plus the nice people from the Clerk of the Court's office. We told our friends after (we didn't have obvious "best" friend choices for witnesses, so we chose to leave everyone out entirely). At first I had lingering misgivings about not having a party, but honestly, planning a wedding would have been awful - neither one of us likes to spend money on stuff like that. And our marriage has been so great that I wouldn't have it any other way. Only misgiving, besides not having had "the dress," and our family present? You don't get wedding gifts when you elope, and we were post-college kids with basically nothing, so we probably could have used stuff to get started. But we survived just fine!

Anyway, point is, even in a culture where marriage is the end-all, be-all, if you don't have the money... you don't have it. I didn't come from a fundie background, but I'm willing to bet that whole having -12-kids thing certainly plays a huge part in the weddings they have and the scale of them.

[Austin]

As for me, my original opinion was to have a simple wedding as some above thread have talked/joked about. However, I think people should be careful about feeling smug about their frugality. You really don't know what type of wedding you'll want until you have to plan your own.

Uh. . . most of us who spoke about having simpler weddings have already had them, so I don't know what you mean about "until you have to plan your own". Yeah, we planned our own, and that's what we wanted.

Everyone is different and that's fine and if money is no problem, then great. But I have seen people go into debt for a wedding, or guilt their parents into doing so, and no one will ever convince me that that one day is worth that. Going into a marriage cash-strapped over a wedding is just foolish, and putting a guilt trip on one's parents to provide a fairy tale wedding they can't afford is selfish and ridiculous.

At any rate, good luck on your upcoming marriage.

[Feberin]

One thing I have to agree on is that the weddings are big in cultures when it's the be-all end-all in the life of the bride. In one of the Chatter threads, I was wondering about that, and I think I have my answer. I was wondering why the poorer the culture, the bigger the wedding, for example: weddings in Indian slums last for days, while rich Manhattanite journalists elope to the courthouse in office clothes. It's because the rich/educated/career-minded people have other things in their life, being married is a part of what makes their life happy and fulfilled but not ONLY that.

I'm not sure if this is true. Indians weddings typically last for days so I think that's more cultural for the whole country then just the poor. Also there are plenty of rich people who have HUGE weddings and poor people that have small ones. The fundies are a great examples of this since many of them have small wedding even though it is the biggest things in these girls lives.

[fundyfunland]

:) Got to say, this sounds like best. wedding. evar...

I second this as the best idea EVER!....except the KFC part - I'd switch with the BEST vegetarian/vegan resturant. So...ya....

[gilora]

I think that with the exception of the Duggars, most fundie "royaty" do not have as much money as they would like us to believe. To me, they seem to try and convey the message "we're frugal because it's godly, but don't worry, if you follow our example of a zillion kids and one income you can be rich too." YMMV

ETA -- given that the fundie cuture makes it plain that the women don't matter, I suppose those who control the wedding budget don't care whether the ceremony and reception are what the bride wants.

[Feberin]

I second this as the best idea EVER!....except the KFC part - I'd switch with the BEST vegetarian/vegan resturant. So...ya....

Yeah that's one thing we run into with all family parties. My in-laws have a lot of food allergies and both sides of the family have vegetarians. Coming up with a vegetarian meal that's gluten and peanut free is tricky. We almost always end up making multiple meals.

[fundyfunland]

Yeah, I understand Feberin. PM me if you need any info for gluten-free or vegetarian/vegan ideas (or a combo of all 3). I'm sure I could come up w/ a quick menu that could satisfy all those...and even the omnivores :D but not the carnivores :twisted:

[YPestis]

Uh. . . most of us who spoke about having simpler weddings have already had them, so I don't know what you mean about "until you have to plan your own". Yeah, we planned our own, and that's what we wanted.

Everyone is different and that's fine and if money is no problem, then great. But I have seen people go into debt for a wedding, or guilt their parents into doing so, and no one will ever convince me that that one day is worth that. Going into a marriage cash-strapped over a wedding is just foolish, and putting a guilt trip on one's parents to provide a fairy tale wedding they can't afford is selfish and ridiculous.

At any rate, good luck on your upcoming marriage.

Well, there were posts upthread that had people talking about what they'd do *if* they had to plan a wedding, and it included suggestions of keeping it simple. People told of their wedding experiences, and others agreed with the simpler wedding ideas.

I do agree going into debt for a wedding is stupid. The one thing my SO and I were adamant about was that there be NO DEBT for the wedding. It was a cash only affair. We were already starting our married life with debt for two medical degrees, wedding debt seemed so stupid.

However, I wanted to point out that not everything goes according to plan. I anticipated a small affair because I had no extended family in this country and most of my friends lived in town. However, my SO was part of a close knit, large Catholic family which lived 3 hours flight from here. It seemed inappropriate to invite them to a 3 hour punch and cake party when they flew in and took early leave from work. Plus, there was an added family reunion flavor to the wedding. That was an unanticipated cost there.

My SO really wanted to invite his mentors, past and present, as well as prospective employers to the wedding. As they were all physicians, my SO felt bad about not providing a nice reception. Maybe that was a bit shallow, but as a Chinese, I can emphasize with the idea of saving face. A nicer reception is another added expense.

The small wedding I anticipated ballooned just with the addition of what the groom wanted.

Then there was the proposition of having to do a wedding in China as my relatives all lived there. It seemed awfully cheap to exclude my grandmothers from that. Again, increase in wedding cost.

All in all, I felt we had some legitimate reasons for having the wedding we are planning. However, I admit it's easier to accept the cost since neither of us will go into debt for it. My fiance's family is well off and will not feel the the cost.

However, I don't feel like I can judge others for having $20k weddings anymore. I don't know their circumstance. I don't know the cultural attitudes regarding weddings. And frankly, I don't know their finances. As long as no one is going into debt, I say to each their own!

[Austin]

I hope your day is lovely, YPestis.

Some people don't have fancy weddings because they don't want to or they have different priorities (this was us - we wanted to buy a house early in our marriage). Some people don't because they can't afford a big, expensive wedding and they opt for a simple affair or elope.. But some people spend money they don't have (or their parents don't have) for a fairy princess wedding and I do think that is silly. Clearly, you are not in any of these situations,.

If spending a lot of money on a wedding doesn't put one into debt, or start them off cash-strapped, then more power to them. It is good for all of the businesses that provide wedding services, and so is good for the economy. I bet those folks are very happy in New York right now with gay marriage finally being legalized! :D

[YPestis]

I hope your day is lovely, YPestis.

Some people don't have fancy weddings because they don't want to or they have different priorities (this was us - we wanted to buy a house early in our marriage). Some people don't because they can't afford a big, expensive wedding and they opt for a simple affair or elope.. But some people spend money they don't have (or their parents don't have) for a fairy princess wedding and I do think that is silly. Clearly, you are not in any of these situations,.

If spending a lot of money on a wedding doesn't put one into debt, or start them off cash-strapped, then more power to them. It is good for all of the businesses that provide wedding services, and so is good for the economy. I bet those folks are very happy in New York right now with gay marriage finally being legalized! :D

Well, far be it for me to not want to support the wedding industry but...it's a SCAM!!!

I say more power to those that can avoid the huge thing. Buy a house, upgrade your kitchen, or stay home with your kid!

Well, hoping this wedding will garner some good will with the dept head and get my fiance a job offer after he finishes residency! ;)

[dirtyhippiegirl]

However, I don't feel like I can judge others for having $20k weddings anymore. I don't know their circumstance. I don't know the cultural attitudes regarding weddings. And frankly, I don't know their finances. As long as no one is going into debt, I say to each their own!

Pfff. $20k wedding? My cousin and her long-term bf dropped something like $150k for their wedding. My MiL's second wedding was $100k+ AND they honeymooned in Europe for three months afterwards.

/our was, like, $50? woo. That was pretty much what we could spend without going into debt.

[mythoughtis]

out of town relatives/plane trip - check

some sort of a meal - you can afford it - check

mentors past and present..... Friends and family type? check

second wedding overseas for famly - you can afford it - check

Prospective employers ....maybe they might offer him a job?????????

Maybe Chinese culture goes for that.. but Americans, born and bred will think you are over-reaching, and be concerned that maybe you will turn into stalkers, or go postal if no job offer is forthcoming. I mean this.... Americans DO NOT want to be invited to a wedding by someone who is fishing for a job offer with their company... and whom they aren't VERY good friends with.

[alphaeta08]

I second this as the best idea EVER!....except the KFC part - I'd switch with the BEST vegetarian/vegan resturant. So...ya....

Yeah, I figured it would be like that one day in elementary school where they'd let the whole school order a Happy Meal. You'd to check a box for hamburger, cheeseburger, or chicken nuggets with your choice of accompanying sauce. All my mom really wants out of the deal is a bottle of Bailey's and a bucket. People are always bitching about the food at weddings, so I'm just beating them to the punch! :lol:

[Haterblocker]

This wedding was snarked about on a previous thread the other day... but since we're comparing small cheap weddings to expensive ones, it looks like a pretty big chunk of change was spent on this wedding! ! !

http://koris-blog.blogspot.com/2011/06/ ... -post.html

[keeperrox]

We eloped. Our daughter and one male and one female friend came with.

OMG, this happened recently didn't it? Congratulations!

[meda]

out of town relatives/plane trip - check

some sort of a meal - you can afford it - check

mentors past and present..... Friends and family type? check

second wedding overseas for famly - you can afford it - check

Prospective employers ....maybe they might offer him a job?????????

Maybe Chinese culture goes for that.. but Americans, born and bred will think you are over-reaching, and be concerned that maybe you will turn into stalkers, or go postal if no job offer is forthcoming. I mean this.... Americans DO NOT want to be invited to a wedding by someone who is fishing for a job offer with their company... and whom they aren't VERY good friends with.

A few assumptions here along with a bit of zenophobia. It is possible that "American, born and bread" people are not the ones who would be offering the jobs. Also, you are making a sweeping generalization about all employers. I believe Ypestis & fiance are medical doctors, which is a field that runs more towards relationships and networking for job placement.

[Avalondaughter]

Am I the only one who sometimes feels like there is a certain amount of "bride shaming" if you want a wedding these days?

Every wedding thread on every message board I visit will always contain people saying how much they hate the whole fancy bridal thing and white weddings and how weddings are totally over-the-top and ridiculous and spend the cost of their house on weddings. It seems to me if you want a wedding, you're automatically a bridezilla.

Obviously not everyone feels this way, but wedding threads put me on the defensive.

I was always the girl who dreamed of the white wedding. I always loved beautiful dresses and elegant venues and fancy food. I'm still a feminist. I just like fancy parties and I admit I'm a drama queen who likes to have attention on her. Spending years and years dreaming of that special day, I told myself, "When you meet the right guy, none of this will matter. You'll marry him at the county courthouse and have lunch at McDonalds and it won't matter.

When my husband proposed to me, one of the first things I asked him was, "Do you want to have a wedding, or should we do it quick and dirty at city hall?" HE was the one who said we should have a wedding. During the planning stages as we worried about budgets, I suggested all kinds of alternatives. I cut theoretical guest lists. I suggested smaller venues. We even looked at ideas for simply eloping to Vegas or the Carribean. My husband really wanted to have his family and friends around him. He also wanted a formal party. He had never worn a tuxedo in his life and wanted to be able to dress up and put on a show. I had orignally thought that rather than dancing I just wanted an elegant dinner with a string quartet in the background. As the guest list grew, I realized I was going to have to provide more entertainment than that. I thought we could cut the budget by not offering more than wine at the bar. Again, he insisted that we have a full bar because his family likes to drink.

We also live in NY where there is, right or wrong, an expectation from guests that there will be booze and dancing. I've seen obnoxious people literally get angry because they wasted a day or evening at a wedding that wasn't up to their standard.

White gown? Check

Tuxes on the men? Check

BMs in matching gowns? Check (actually, they all wore the same color, but they wore two-piece dresses and each one chose the top she felt most comfortable in)

Mansion venue with ceremony in the garden? Check

Open bar for cocktail hours? Check

Cocktail hour and dinner? Check

Florist-provided bouquets and centerpieces? Check

DJ providing music with dancing? Check

The total cost was about $18,000 in 2001 dollars. I won't lie. My father footed the catering bill. He has been an infamous cheapskate much of his life and I think he really wanted to make that up to me. My mother paid for invitations and the down payment on the cake. DH and I paid for everything else. We made all of it back in gifts and had quite a nice chunk of change to put away for our future. Even if we had paid for everything ourselves, we likely would have had our expenses covered with what we made in gifts.

We also didn't take an expenisve honeymoon. We spent a week at a B&B two hours away. We saved the fancy trips for when we felt more financially stable and went to Ireland 2 years later.

I don't regret a thing. It was wonderful. We had a great day and would do it again if we had to do it all over again.

[Austin]

Am I the only one who sometimes feels like there is a certain amount of "bride shaming" if you want a wedding these days?

Every wedding thread on every message board I visit will always contain people saying how much they hate the whole fancy bridal thing and white weddings and how weddings are totally over-the-top and ridiculous and spend the cost of their house on weddings. It seems to me if you want a wedding, you're automatically a bridezilla.

(snip)

Obviously not everyone feels this way, but wedding threads put me on the defensive.

I don't regret a thing. It was wonderful. We had a great day and would do it again if we had to do it all over again.

I don't think anyone is saying you or anyone should regret anything. That's what you wanted, it was in step with your own sensibilities, and you could afford it. Good for you. But other people will want other things, and they will say why they felt that way, especially in a group as diverse as FJ. I don't think anyone should take someone else's preference/choices personally. Everybody has their reasons, but you cannot expect that everyone will feel the same as you and so therefore assume that they are "shaming" you.

And on the other side of things, you have people implying that those who chose simpler weddings with no big meal were "cheap" or "inhospitable". Well, that's their opinion and having had a simple wedding - at 2:00 in the afternoon with a reception immediately following, so no one was expecting dinner at 3:00 p.m. - I don't feel we were "cheap" or "inhospitable". We had only a few out of town guests, all members of my husband's family, and we had had several events leading up to wedding with them and after the wedding and the reception, we had a nice dinner at home with them and some very close friends and other family. We relaxed and they watched us open our gifts, and we celebrated my [brand new] MIL's birthday which was that same day (something her son forgot to mention to me :shock:, so we scrambled earlier in the day to get a cake), and just had a nice, relaxing time before we left for our honeymoon.

So everyone's situation is different, and that's fine.

If anything, I think there is a lot of cultural support for big, expensive weddings. You can't turn on the television without some wedding show, being it the worst kind such as Bridezilla, or the competitive kind where four brides try to out-do each other, or just shows highlighting high-priced, fancy weddings. In my view, that makes it look like that is the standard, and I don't agree that it has to be and certainly don't believe people should go into debt or place undue financial stress on themselves or their parents.

As I mentioned earlier, we have three sons and expect to contribute to any wedding costs. But it will be a flat amount that will be offered from us, and they can either pay for anything over and above that themselves, or the bride's parents can help if they are so inclined. Ultimately, what they spend will be up to them.

[bananacat]

Wow, so many great ideas for a cheap wedding on this thread!

The way I see it, my (hypothetical) wedding will certainly be an important day, but just one of several throughout my life. I'll probably get married with a JP (I'm not religious) and have no guests to the marriage itself. Then I'll have some kind of party to celebrate, but I won't worry about fitting into tradition, and I'll just plan something that my guests and I would enjoy. I was thinking of having a party at my house and ordering a bunch of delicious pizzas. I know that as a guest, I would have preferred pizza over any of the wedding food I've been served. Everyone can wear casual clothes and won't be expected to bring gifts. For those who absolutely insist on a gift, like my mom, I'll request something practical like money for a future kid's college fund (I probably wouldn't get married until we decided to have a kid). It should be a fun celebration, and if people really think it's fun to have an expensive white gown and a $60 bowl of pretzels, then they should go for it. But I'll know that I'm doing it "right" as long as my guests have fun. I went through a lot of different financial states during my life, and I realized that spending more money does not necessarily make a party more enjoyable.

[Feberin]

I think the type of wedding really depends on your families. By my family's standards my $15k wedding was cheap. my one cousin easily spent over $100k (they're divorced now not that I'm saying if you spend a lot you will divorce just that it now seem like a waste of money now). If you have a huge family then you simply can't have a small number of guests.

I think however much you spend your wedding can be fun and memorable for you.

[demgirl]

You can't turn on the television without some wedding show (snip) the competitive kind where four brides try to out-do each other...

Heh. I love that show. It's like the worst parts of American culture rolled into 45 minutes (1 hour with commercials). I watch in sick fascination.

[Feberin]

Four Weddings is a very entertaining! Especially when they get a really bitchy bride. I watch it the same way I watch Teen Mom and Toddlers in Tiaras.

[bicyclecat]

Am I the only one who sometimes feels like there is a certain amount of "bride shaming" if you want a wedding these days?

I've noticed it to, not so much here, but on some other sites. And it really does get me defensive and feeling like I have to justify myself.

If someone wants a small wedding, great. If they want a big wedding, great. If they want to spend under $1k, great. If they want to take out a $100,000 loan, great. It's really none of my business, unless I find myself at a no food reception, after sitting through an hour long service at dinner time, with no forwarning. Even then, it's not my place to judge, but rather find a neaby McDonalds and wish that the couple had let me know.

[Wolfie]

I do wonder about some couples who go all out on the honeymoon and wedding, yet don't have health insurance. There was a recent case where a wife died and the husband was seriously injured in a parasailing accident on their honeymoon in the Bahamas. He didn't have health insurance, and now on top of grieving, he has to figure out how to pay medical bills.

I want my hypothetical wedding to be low key. We'll see what happens if there ever is one. I have no problems with going all out, if you have your living necessities already covered.

[YPestis]

out of town relatives/plane trip - check

some sort of a meal - you can afford it - check

mentors past and present..... Friends and family type? check

second wedding overseas for famly - you can afford it - check

Prospective employers ....maybe they might offer him a job?????????

Maybe Chinese culture goes for that.. but Americans, born and bred will think you are over-reaching, and be concerned that maybe you will turn into stalkers, or go postal if no job offer is forthcoming. I mean this.... Americans DO NOT want to be invited to a wedding by someone who is fishing for a job offer with their company... and whom they aren't VERY good friends with.

Let me clarify.

We want to maintain good relationships with people that are prominent leaders in my fiance's medical specialty. He is finishing up his residency and wishes to stay in the region so he any connection he maintains will ease his way into a practicing physician.

In the non-primary care medical field, your patient base is dependent referrals by other physicians and the goodwill of your fellow doctors. My SO's field is rather specialized so the community is small. He wants to make positive impressions with key people in his profession.

A wedding is a good excuse for him to socialize with these people and nurture the relationships. That is one reason he wants the wedding to be a nice affair.

The specific "prospective employee" I alluded to is someone my fiance have long admired and whose relationship he has cultivated for years. This guy is the dept head of the medical center my fiance is very interested in working for.

We are not expecting or pushing for a job offer, but we hope by nurturing a positive, more personal relationship, the dept head at the med center will remember him if a job opening exists. Regardless, it never hurts to have a positive connection to a prominent physician in my fiance's specialty.

I am American bred and my SO is American born/bred. However, my understanding of both Chinese and American business practices is that nurturing personal relationships and networking, even in social settings such as weddings, is a common and effective method of acquiring the connections to jumpstart a career.

I should certainly hope that no one is thinking we're stalking or harassing anyone by inviting them to a wedding! ;)