Ken Alexander: Sports medicine expert extrodinaire

[Koala]

From Lori's OP:

Why do we want to control our husband's behavior so badly? Is it really because we are so much wiser and intelligent than them? I think it all comes down to fear and trust but mostly selfishness. We fear if we let him eat what he wants, he will kill himself. If we let him discipline our sons the way he wants, our sons will grow up rebellious and injured. If we don't tell him how to do the dishes, the dishes may stay dirty and not get done the way we like. If we don't make him stop watching television, he may become an addict. If he watches the stock market, he may lose all our money. etc. etc.

Bottom line, we don't trust our husbands and we want our own way. As long as you don't trust your husband, you are going to try to control his behavior and you will NEVER have an intimate marriage. NEVER. Men don't want to be controlled by their wives. They aren't suppose to be controlled by their wives. You will never have a romantic and passionate husband as long as you try to control your husband with your words, emotions, or behavior.

Reader response:

First - if I thought that my husband would ever injure my children, I wouldn't be married to him! That sort of thinking would be a sign that something was very, very wrong. If, however, things were bad enough that I needed to intervene, I would do so (if possible, in a discreet way). My husband is responsible for himself, but I'm also responsible for my children.

Lori:

Ken was much tougher than I wanted him to be on our boys but now I am glad he was and that I didn't interfere.

Ken:

Cynthia,

The context Lori is speaking to is an unrealistic fear or over-protectionism by the mother when she speaks of the child's "potential" injury from the fathers more manly approach to discipline and sports. A her coaching is to admonish women to think twice before stopping a husband at every turn when he wants to raise the boys differently than her female sensibilities desire.

My being tougher on the boys had little to do with discipline of behavior and everything to do with teaching the boys about being tough, especially when it comes to pain. I coached my boys in many sports and when they got injured, I would put them right back into the game, sprained ankle's and all. Why? Well for a number of reasons, but the main reason was to grow them up to understand how to play through pain in life. If they could not continue I could easily see it and pull them from the game, but to not try was not being very manly. Sports was as close a training ground for a future world war as they might ever have, or for a job where they have to lecture all day with a splitting headache or stomach ache. I asked for them nothing more than what I would do. They believed me, and began to realize that pain should not in and of itself stop one from playing the game or the game of life.

Sports has a great way of teaching this, and it would not surprise me if your husband in his coaching does not put your boys back into the soccer or hockey game after they are injured. You may have wondered what in the world is he doing, yet a few minutes later you see that your son had shaken off the pain and was playing through it. The adrenaline flows and the pain subsides. Your sons are learning to be tough and that pain cannot stop them.

I watched other parents whose Moms wrapped their arms around their child on the bench and would not allow them to go back into the game. That was their call and I did not push them on it, but I do believe it did their child a disservice as an overprotective Mom.

Lori is speaking of a wife's fears, many of which are unreal. If a husband has to live by his wife's fears he cannot live a full life, nor can he help teach his boys to be manly. If you allow your kids to play hockey they are learning all these lessons as they can's stay in the game long without pain. Too many Moms are helicopter Moms and overprotective, not letting Dads play their role in training. There are very few injuries that if one continues to play will make things worse. Head and neck injuries are the exception and then the child should sit out.

Don't be deluded...Ken is just as bad as Lori.

Ken Alexander:

I ca only remember creating a bruise on one child

The last quote is from his time here at FJ

[Peas n carrots]

OK so my dad was a coach too...and he didn't put injured kids back in games for a very good reason - it would likely make the injury worse, and could lead to the kid never being able to play again.

I understand building mental toughness, but building physical toughness is about working through discomfort and not pain/injury.

I really hope his sons never suffered a concussion...Ken seems like he would have been the type to force his players to continue playing with a grave injury that could have massive effects in later life!

[Koala]

My husband coached for several years as well. I have watched him completely stop a game many times to get an injured/possibly injured child off the field. Never mattered to him which team they were on....if there was an injury the whole team knew to stand patiently until the child was removed and evaluated, and both sides clapped for them once they were secure on the sidelines. THAT Ken, is how he taught my children to be decent people.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Is it just me, or did anyone else picture the strapping incident instead of a sports example? Lori never said anything about sports. She was talking about discipline.

I was laughing over the comparison to fighting a world war, or giving a lecture when you have a headache. Cause those are totally the same thing.

[OkToBeTakei]

From Lori's OP:

Reader response:

Lori:

Ken:

Don't be deluded...Ken is just as bad as Lori.

Ken Alexander:

The last quote is from his time here at FJ

Blah blah blah. Since his visit here and looking at her blog when I am exceptionally bored they just get creepier by the day. Ken almighty the 'nice' guy would have zero insight into how if most people he met on a daily casual/working basis would be absolutely creeped out by what he and his wife teach 'live' and practice. He sounds pervy, on a good day. Downright creepy at other times. No insight which makes it frightening.

Anyway I digress. I read this today from her blog and laughed VERY loudly and thought of you Koala :lol:

There are many Christians who believe slander about other believers. Instead of reading their books, watching their videos, or going to them directly, they believe snippets of what others have said or videos that have been pieced together making them look evil. They will also take a few sentences from what a person said, completely out of context, for the sake of getting their point across.

Whenever I write anything critical about anyone, I link to their words directly so all of you can read what they said in context and come to your own conclusions. I think it is very wrong to listen to someone criticizing others without having access to what they really said and in context.

I recall they did not exactly like that being done to them :lol:

[OkToBeTakei]

Is it just me, or did anyone else picture the strapping incident instead of a sports example? Lori never said anything about sports. She was talking about discipline.

I was laughing over the comparison to fighting a world war, or giving a lecture when you have a headache. Cause those are totally the same thing.

:lol: Not just you.

There is a world of difference in teaching your children a good work ethic and unnecessarily risking worsening an injury to make that point. Ken is not exactly bright though eh?

[2xx1xy1JD]

Look, I've seen my husband take a look at a kid's leg and declare that it's fine for them to keep playing.

The thing is - my husband is a doctor, and he's qualified to make that call. Sometimes, a whiny kid needs to be told that not every imagined boo-boo is a problem. What qualifies Ken to tell the difference between a bruise/bump, and a torn tendon or ligament that can get worse if you don't stop playing? Because I looked up the treatment recommendations for a sprained ankle, and "just keep playing" wasn't one of them.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Blah blah blah. Since his visit here and looking at her blog when I am exceptionally bored they just get creepier by the day. Ken almighty the 'nice' guy would have zero insight into how if most people he met on a daily casual/working basis would be absolutely creeped out by what he and his wife teach 'live' and practice. He sounds pervy, on a good day. Downright creepy at other times. No insight which makes it frightening.

Anyway I digress. I read this today from her blog and laughed VERY loudly and thought of you Koala :lol:

I recall they did not exactly like that being done to them :lol:

Yes, Lori has a good point there.

I read the articles at the Pearl's No Greater Joy website, and I watched Michael demonstrating how to use plumbing line. That's exactly what left me horrified.

We've not only read Lori's blog, but had a chance to post questions to Lori and Ken. Their responses made things worse, not better.

The PP's demonstration of strapping kids on YouTube speaks for itself. That's all him, directly.

[JordynDarby5]

My dad played sports his entire life oddly enough it didn't prepare him at all for war. Maybe because the opposing team didn't have guns, tanks, grenades, bombs and landmines. :lol:

[GeoBQn]

I guess Ken is a big fan of George Carlin's football-baseball routine:

And finally, the objectives of the two games are completely different:

In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s defensive line.

In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! – I hope I’ll be safe at home!

[twin2]

I coached my boys in many sports and when they got injured, I would put them right back into the game, sprained ankle's and all. Why? Well for a number of reasons, but the main reason was to grow them up to understand how to play through pain in life.

What a fuckwit. I'm guessing he got his MD in Sports Medicine from the back of a KJV or a box of Fruity Pebbles.

[salex]

It is interesting to me that Lori took years and years to figure out what I knew at 17-- date/marry people who are already how you like them, and who like you like you are, and no one will try to boss the other into being something different.

i wonder what she wanted ken to be, anyway, that he was not... other than what both of them appear to be based on their writing-- a couple of giant jerks.

[ViolaSebastian]

Uh...remember how Ken stated that his children received more pain from playing sports than they ever did through discipline? Maybe dumb shit stuff like making the kids play while injured is the reason why, Kenny.

[CrazyCatLady]

What is with all the emphasis on being "manly"? Creeps me out.

[kpmom]

What is with all the emphasis on being "manly"? Creeps me out.

In fundie minds "manly" and "gay" just can't possibly co-exist. The more dads like Ken toughen their sons up, the less chance those sons will choose (as we all know, they're convinced it's a choice) to be gay. :roll:

[browngrl]

I have rewritten this post several times because I just degenerate into an expletive filled rant. Ken and Lori piss me off that much. They fling their medical advice around like it is no big thing and have no clue of the consequences that could arise if people actually followed their advice. Ken if you read here: YOU ARE NOT A DOCTOR OR A PHYSIOTHERAPIST OR A TRAINER OR ANY KIND OF PROFESSIONAL. You have no clue about medicine/sports injuries. I will not be surprised if your children find themselves stuck with injury related osteoarthritis as they age. I'm just glad that none of your children suffered a life threatening/altering injury that you managed by forcing them to play through it. Oh and Ken here is another thing: We have actually sequenced the entire human genome. NOWHERE on the y chromosome is the super special gene for managing sports injuries or handling emergencies. :angry-banghead: :evil-eye: :cussing: :headdesk: :angry-screaming: :angry-cussing:

(Caps and multiple smilies because I can)

[usmcmom]

So, Ken said this: "......Sports was as close a training ground for a future world war as they might ever have, or for a job where they have to lecture all day with a splitting headache or stomach ache."

********

....and my head exploded!

Really, Ken? My son was a wrestler and a football player and he knew how to play through an injury. But those sports and the injuries he received in them were nothing - NOTHING - compared to training to be a United States Marine, and the daily work it takes to keep the honor of wearing that uniform. It was that training, Ken, not wrestling or football, that prepared my son to fight this current war. I took him to the ER a couple times when he was a student athlete because, yes, I was a little overprotective and his father knew better than to stand in the way of a worried mother. Do you want to question the manliness and work ethic of my Marine son, Ken, simply because he had a mother that worried over him and looked after him? I may be a little over sensitive about this topic, and I have never EVER spoken aloud the following words, but:

Fuck you, Ken Alexander.

[salex]

Does it seem to anyone else that Ken and Lori's kids were likely pawns in the K and L power struggle? Lori talks about how her kids now like the "big salads" and Ken mentioned here or on their blog that their kids would eat the salads then come ask for some of his "good" food.

Their memories of how the kids were punished vary wildly. She sent them to their rooms for hours a day (wonder what the nanny was doing then--cleaning house?). I wonder if the more Lori thought the child should be taken out of the game, the more Ken pushed to get the kid to play hurt? They describe their marriage as some kind of ongoing arm wrestling match until Lori saw the light (aka, saw the billfold leaving) so the kids grew up in the war zone... I wander how often they were drawn into the fray.

[usmcmom]

Does it seem to anyone else that Ken and Lori's kids were likely pawns in the K and L power struggle? Lori talks about how her kids now like the "big salads" and Ken mentioned here or on their blog that their kids would eat the salads then come ask for some of his "good" food.

Their memories of how the kids were punished vary wildly. She sent them to their rooms for hours a day (wonder what the nanny was doing then--cleaning house?). I wonder if the more Lori thought the child should be taken out of the game, the more Ken pushed to get the kid to play hurt? They describe their marriage as some kind of ongoing arm wrestling match until Lori saw the light (aka, saw the billfold leaving) so the kids grew up in the war zone... I wander how often they were drawn into the fray.

I have wondered what kind of marriages their kids have/will have. Considering the example that was set for them, I'm not optimistic that their spouses will be happy. I also wonder what the sons- and daughters-in law must think of Ken and Lori.

Lori's post today is just one more example of her black and white thinking. She just cannot comprehend that there can be equality in a marriage. In her mind, either you have to be nagging your husband every waking minute, or you have to submit to him completely. Are they both really just unable to comprehend something like compromise? Whatever their issues, their mutual contempt is blatantly obvious.

[Curious]

Many years ago, I was the manager for my then husband's softball team. During a game, he tagged someone on the back and immediately complained about hurting his hand. I gave him an "are you serious" kind of look, looked at his hand and figured he had maybe jammed his finger or something, but that he'd live and put him back at 3rd base. The guy he tagged didn't seem any worse for wear, like he'd been tagged exceptionally hard or anything like that.

After a couple plays where my husband made errors because he kept pulling his hand in rather than catching the ball, I pulled him out of the game and I was none too pleased about it.

The next morning, when we got up he said "oh I guess my finger is ok, it's not swollen." I took one look at it and my stomach fell. It didn't look swollen to him because his ENTIRE hand was swollen. So off to the dr. we went and he had a broken hand. I felt AWFUL, of course, and spent much time apologizing profusely.

It was just a freak thing. You don't really expect to have an injury tagging someone unless it's a slide. It's not like this was the MLB ;) The thing is sports are dangerous and people get hurt, sometimes even when it doesn't look like a serious injury. I wouldn't want to be making that call with other people's children if I didn't have training.

[amster]

I have been coaching netball for 12 years. If a child complains of an injury, it has to be looked at. Often, I will tell them to suck it up and get back out there. But if it needs further treatment or I am not sure, I will pull them off and get them looked at by the physio. You can't just get them to play on without being sure it's nothing serious.

[Coconut Flan]

I know Ken's type. I've taken them to task also. I dropped off a daughter who has asthma at a soccer practice and they decided to scrimmage another team. Daughter had an asthma attack and told the coach she needed to come out. He yelled at her to quit being a wimp and run harder. She passed out on the field. When I got back after dropping off another child, one of the mothers came running and said she'd wanted to call an ambulance but the coach yelled at her that my kid just wanted attention. Yes, coach got a lot more attention than he wanted over that one.

[usmcmom]

Many years ago, I was the manager for my then husband's softball team. During a game, he tagged someone on the back and immediately complained about hurting his hand. I gave him an "are you serious" kind of look, looked at his hand and figured he had maybe jammed his finger or something, but that he'd live and put him back at 3rd base. The guy he tagged didn't seem any worse for wear, like he'd been tagged exceptionally hard or anything like that.

After a couple plays where my husband made errors because he kept pulling his hand in rather than catching the ball, I pulled him out of the game and I was none too pleased about it.

The next morning, when we got up he said "oh I guess my finger is ok, it's not swollen." I took one look at it and my stomach fell. It didn't look swollen to him because his ENTIRE hand was swollen. So off to the dr. we went and he had a broken hand. I felt AWFUL, of course, and spent much time apologizing profusely.

It was just a freak thing. You don't really expect to have an injury tagging someone unless it's a slide. It's not like this was the MLB ;) The thing is sports are dangerous and people get hurt, sometimes even when it doesn't look like a serious injury. I wouldn't want to be making that call with other people's children if I didn't have training.

Wait. Are you telling us that YOU managed A MEN'S TEAM? So, you, like HAD AUTHORITY(!!!11!!!) over men?!? Ken is not going to like that. :naughty: :naughty: :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

I'm pretty sure God broke your husband's hand because he gave up his headship on the softball field. :lol:

[Mice]

...

Ken:

Ken does a fantastic job underlining Lori's original post. She goes on about how women don't trust their husband's decisions and her husband responds with so many examples of terrible judgement that of course no one would trust him. These guys practically self-snark.

[Antimony]

Many years ago, I was the manager for my then husband's softball team. During a game, he tagged someone on the back and immediately complained about hurting his hand. I gave him an "are you serious" kind of look, looked at his hand and figured he had maybe jammed his finger or something, but that he'd live and put him back at 3rd base. The guy he tagged didn't seem any worse for wear, like he'd been tagged exceptionally hard or anything like that.

After a couple plays where my husband made errors because he kept pulling his hand in rather than catching the ball, I pulled him out of the game and I was none too pleased about it.

The next morning, when we got up he said "oh I guess my finger is ok, it's not swollen." I took one look at it and my stomach fell. It didn't look swollen to him because his ENTIRE hand was swollen. So off to the dr. we went and he had a broken hand. I felt AWFUL, of course, and spent much time apologizing profusely.

It was just a freak thing. You don't really expect to have an injury tagging someone unless it's a slide. It's not like this was the MLB ;) The thing is sports are dangerous and people get hurt, sometimes even when it doesn't look like a serious injury. I wouldn't want to be making that call with other people's children if I didn't have training.

I played softball in high school and in one game we watched a girl break her thumb while up to bat. She actually played it off like it was nothing cause she didn't want to sit out and we actually had no idea how bad it was until the end. It's likely she didn't know it was entirely broken, I suppose, but she shook it off like it was fine.

I was about to ask if Ken didn't realize that there were injuries you can play through and those you can't and then I remembered that he qualified head and neck injuries, which are serious but just seem an arbitrary line. That line should really be at "anything that is worsened by continued play" and sprained ankles COUNT. I also wonder how good he thinks his kids were at sports acting this way -- would he make a pitcher pitch through pain after 5 innings already? That can do serious damage and influences coming games. He's hurting his kids and damaging team ability to thrive all in the name of being manly...christ.