Lourdes & Nolan Manteufel - Doug Phillips lawsuit - Part 2

[Curious]

Being young and in the situation Lourdes and Nolan are in has got to be so hard. I understand his (their?) desire to speak out publicly against the people that did them wrong, as well as the people still condoning that behavior or continuing in the same vein of behavior (not the sexual assault of Lourdes, but the cult/patriarchy/etc). When you are young and have a head full of steam, it's hard to remember that there will be plenty of time to get all this stuff out in the open after the immediate issues are taken care of.

No one is going to forget this happened. No one is going to just let others slide. We talk about these topics and many of the people that Nolan is (was) calling out every day. We aren't going anywhere and we aren't going to forget nor are we going to let others forget.

I think the majority of people here, even when they have been critical are very supportive of Lourdes and Nolan. This is a snark forum, however, and I'm sure that neither Lourdes nor Nolan are used to the kind of interaction we have here on a routine basis, so it's probably a shock to the system to have people go from pretty much full support to outrage over a single comment.

For those of us that have been here for years and those that were raised in, I hesitate to use the word normal, but non-sheltered/secular/pick your description, we are used to people agreeing with us in one thread and disagreeing in another and it being no big deal or agreeing to disagree or whatever. I don't get the impression that kind of thing is the norm or even tolerated.

[MamaJunebug]

I pray for the best for them, and hope they will check their FB messages.

[MerryHappy]

Nolan's FB page has been taken down.

I can still see it. As far as I can tell it is still there and still public.

[Ms Jess]

Well, I can see it now. I couldn't earlier this morning. What would make him post the bad decisions meme directed at himself and then go on a tirade against FJ a couple of days later?

[Marian the Librarian]

I can still see it. As far as I can tell it is still there and still public.

Huh - it's back! It's a miracle!! :lol:

In all seriousness, I want to add my voice to the chorus of support for N&T. Quoting "The Inn of the Sixth Happiness," I wish them wealth, longevity, good health, virtue, and a peaceful death in old age - and the joy of deciding, individually and together, their own sixth happinesses.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I understand why Nolan is doing this. Its really got to hurt knowing that Doug did these awful things to Lourdes, who he loves so much, and to have (almost) everything he believed in come crashing down, having to work out which of these beliefs are good and can be kept, or bad and have to be discarded, and having so many people, even those in his own family, turn against him for wanting to be with someone he loves and protect her from the people who hurt her. Fundies don't teach their kids to be adults, they teach their kids to be codependant and immature, so being a young adult in their world, and then being thrown into the real world, its tough. I hate how they treat their kids, they aren't preparing them for life at all. I imagine both of them have had a large part of their childhood and teenage years taken away by being so controlled (as well as abused, at least for Lourdes). Of course he is angry and lashing out to everyone who will listen. I don't know whether it is the best idea, but I understand why he is doing it.

[Arete]

I understand why Nolan is doing this. Its really got to hurt knowing that Doug did these awful things to Lourdes, who he loves so much, and to have (almost) everything he believed in come crashing down, having to work out which of these beliefs are good and can be kept, or bad and have to be discarded, and having so many people, even those in his own family, turn against him for wanting to be with someone he loves and protect her from the people who hurt her. Fundies don't teach their kids to be adults, they teach their kids to be codependant and immature, so being a young adult in their world, and then being thrown into the real world, its tough. I hate how they treat their kids, they aren't preparing them for life at all. I imagine both of them have had a large part of their childhood and teenage years taken away by being so controlled (as well as abused, at least for Lourdes). Of course he is angry and lashing out to everyone who will listen. I don't know whether it is the best idea, but I understand why he is doing it.

Somebody say, "Amen".

[RosyDaisy]

AMEN!!! Nolan and Lourdes, I care about and support you wholeheartedly. May God give you the strength to get through this, and may he also bless you with many wonderful years together with wonderful memories.

[mausi]

Oh lordy, now we're "man-haters." My poor rolling eyeballs.

Really?? Did he explain the label? Or is it just because 'we' dared to question the actions of someone who also just happens to be a man? Cause...

[CloakNDagger]

I understand why Nolan is doing this. Its really got to hurt knowing that Doug did these awful things to Lourdes, who he loves so much, and to have (almost) everything he believed in come crashing down, having to work out which of these beliefs are good and can be kept, or bad and have to be discarded, and having so many people, even those in his own family, turn against him for wanting to be with someone he loves and protect her from the people who hurt her. Fundies don't teach their kids to be adults, they teach their kids to be codependant and immature, so being a young adult in their world, and then being thrown into the real world, its tough. I hate how they treat their kids, they aren't preparing them for life at all. I imagine both of them have had a large part of their childhood and teenage years taken away by being so controlled (as well as abused, at least for Lourdes). Of course he is angry and lashing out to everyone who will listen. I don't know whether it is the best idea, but I understand why he is doing it.

I don't know that that statement is entirely true at all, especially in Nolan's case. His dad has even had his sisters go out and work some, which is different than a lot of the other families. Nolan interned at a company farther away from San Antonio for a while and was an intern with an agency out of state for a while too, and has been in college when he wasn't an intern. Truthfully, it's not like his family has really isolated him from the real world. And he always questioned things even when he was at BCA back in the day such as why messages seemed to be given more for the CD audience than for the local church.

[thoughtful]

Really?? Did he explain the label? Or is it just because 'we' dared to question the actions of someone who also just happens to be a man? Cause...

Facebook finally cooperated enough for me to see the things that were quoted here -- for some reason, I could not see them before.

Nolan did not say that, a commenter did.

If you are reading here, Nolan, Lourdes and the commenters, I'd love it if you'd think about this - there are over 7000 members here. We really don't all have the same opinion. And the discourse here has mellowed and diversified a lot in the past few years.

You have support here -- lots of it. But that doesn't mean that individuals don't have their own opinions, or that even some in support might not take offense, or wince a bit, at some things you say.

[Palimpsest]

I feel a whole lot better about Lourdes now I realize she has decent (perhaps really good) legal representation and has been getting counseling from mental health professionals. I was really worried about that. Perhaps my worry was not necessary.

Lourdes and Nolan can, and will, make their own decisions about all of this. They are grown adults and I apologize to them if I ever seemed "parental!" Oh, my. In what world is that such an awful insult? I'm just (ahem) older. An aunt not a parent and a fairly hands off and respectful auntie at that. :lol:

And, yes, there are a whole lot of opinions at FJ. We don't all speak with one voice. Whether Lourdes and Nolan read here or "study" the commentary or not is their decision. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out and where they end up.

I just wish them the best. I hope they realize that.

[marmalade]

Nolan's FB page has been taken down.

FB has been wonky the past couple of days. I couldn't access my page at times last night. It kind of came and went, but Nolan's page is as it ever was as I type.

[fundiefan]

For all the gasping I do when reading some of Nolan's words, I can't help but fee for him. I didn't come out of a cult but I did come out of a controlling, manipulative marriage where my voice was silenced and my feelings had to be turned off in order to survive. Once I could talk and feel again, without recourse, everything was so out of control that I found myself burying things again. I didn't know how to handle feeling my emotions rather than hiding them; I didn't know that it was in my own best interest to keep some things private - remarks, stories, retelling of events, comparisons and the like. I was a 40-something year old woman who had to learn not only social norms but personal ones as well.

Much like a young child as it learns to walk, talk, think and have preferences I totally get how even a grown adult can and will push all limits, because they finally can and because they don't yet know themselves well enough to create their own personality and character so they test everything.

[Jasmar]

Being young and in the situation Lourdes and Nolan are in has got to be so hard. I understand his (their?) desire to speak out publicly against the people that did them wrong, as well as the people still condoning that behavior or continuing in the same vein of behavior (not the sexual assault of Lourdes, but the cult/patriarchy/etc). When you are young and have a head full of steam, it's hard to remember that there will be plenty of time to get all this stuff out in the open after the immediate issues are taken care of.

No one is going to forget this happened. No one is going to just let others slide. We talk about these topics and many of the people that Nolan is (was) calling out every day. We aren't going anywhere and we aren't going to forget nor are we going to let others forget.

I think the majority of people here, even when they have been critical are very supportive of Lourdes and Nolan. This is a snark forum, however, and I'm sure that neither Lourdes nor Nolan are used to the kind of interaction we have here on a routine basis, so it's probably a shock to the system to have people go from pretty much full support to outrage over a single comment.

For those of us that have been here for years and those that were raised in, I hesitate to use the word normal, but non-sheltered/secular/pick your description, we are used to people agreeing with us in one thread and disagreeing in another and it being no big deal or agreeing to disagree or whatever. I don't get the impression that kind of thing is the norm or even tolerated.

This is such a good point, and I'd add anyone raised in abuse, having a hard time with the healthy dialogue here. I grew up in a very liberal, single-parent home - not only not religious, but really hostile to anything remotely Christian. But there was a lot of abuse, not being allowed to have any opinion other than mom's, unpredictable rage outbursts, etc. I know I struggle here somewhat as a result.

[cindyluvs24]

Hey Nolan. Writing about how much fun it is to de-fundy your wife in the bedroom is not going to help her convince a jury that what Doug did to her hurt her. Remember, he says she was willing. It doesn't follow that an innocent naive girl goes from years of getting jism'd in her face by force to suddenly loving sex. Those lawyers will make mincemeat out of you and the claim . oh, and telling someone you mindfucked them .......not cool or adult. Everything you do or say publicly is fair game. Just a little free advice, I'm sure your lawyers can explain it to you.

[MerryHappy]

Hey Nolan. Writing about how much fun it is to de-fundy your wife in the bedroom is not going to help her convince a jury that what Doug did to her hurt her. Remember, he says she was willing. It doesn't follow that an innocent naive girl goes from years of getting jism'd in her face by force to suddenly loving sex. Those lawyers will make mincemeat out of you and the claim . oh, and telling someone you mindfucked them.......not cool or adult. Everything you do or say publicly is fair game. Just a little free advice, I'm sure your lawyers can explain it to you.

I really don't think he thought that one through very well.

It makes me wonder how a jury might respond to seeing someone openly posting about using psychological manipulation on individuals and/or groups of people...like a jury, for example.

One can hope that they will see him as a young, foolhardy, no-filter male because the alternative sucks for Lourdes.

[DHM]

Maybe too much is being read into that quote. Nolan didn't say he was "schooling Lourdes in sex", he said he was, "showing Lourdes how men really think." It's not just the Fundies that think that all man think about is sex... well, it *is* what we think about 80% of the time, but it's not ALL we think about... and our sexual thoughts are not all about what kind of perverted thing we can get away with. I'm willing to bet that what Nolan thinks and what Lourdes *thinks* he thinks are two vastly different things. Heck, I've been married 20+ years and my wife *still* has misconceptions of the male thought process (and the male sex drive) that were drilled into her by her mother! And yes, sometimes it can be fun destroying those misconceptions -- other times it can be down-right frustrating. While that quote may seem like chest thumping, it may just be a plain statement of reality coupled with the fact that getting to know someone is fun (and doubly so when sex is involved :) ).

Agreed. If you go back and look at the thread where he made the comment, it was part of a conversation, and the person he was talking to, another escapee, understood precisely what he meant. Her reply was:

" Haha all I heard growing up was not to wear this or that because that could "stumble" a godly young man. Skirts and dresses only. God forbid more than 2 inches under the collarbone show! If girls in my church wore pants to any church function they were required to give a "public confession" and apologize to the entire church. One time my pastor even got on a kick about the seductiveness of open-toed shoes. Imagine how surprised I was when I learned that men aren't sex robots! These days I enjoy wearing whatever I feel good in and don't have to worry about what people think."

[lilith]

Hey Nolan. Writing about how much fun it is to de-fundy your wife in the bedroom is not going to help her convince a jury that what Doug did to her hurt her. Remember, he says she was willing. It doesn't follow that an innocent naive girl goes from years of getting jism'd in her face by force to suddenly loving sex. Those lawyers will make mincemeat out of you and the claim . oh, and telling someone you mindfucked them .......not cool or adult. Everything you do or say publicly is fair game. Just a little free advice, I'm sure your lawyers can explain it to you.

There is no reason why Lourdes, or any other sexual assault victim, can't enjoy consensual sex with her husband. It's healthy if she can.

While I agree that a perception of her as enjoying a healthy sex life could play badly in court, it really shouldn't make any difference at all. It's just a more insidious form of asking what a rape victim was wearing. The fact that a woman enjoys some sexual activities with some people is not an invitation for every person to perform whatever sex acts they like with her.

[cindyluvs24]

Yes but it gives Doug et al ammo to use against her and her credibility. A case like this, with lots of juicy info (I'm waiting for them to use it on Law and Order SVU) strikes a visceral note in juries. * They'll use their gut more than, say, a case where I sue for damages because my neighbor improperly cut his tree and it fell onto my car. Since she filed right after the wedding, they can allege that Nolan is an ill-mannered reject from the church looking for $ and by extension, so is she.

It may not be right, but its a matter of who has the more plausible account.

* conservative Texas juries

[NotALoserLikeYou]

So, to lighten things up, did anyone else see Once Upon a Time last night and think Marion looked like Lourdes??

[SamuraiKatz]

So, to lighten things up, did anyone else see Once Upon a Time last night and think Marion looked like Lourdes??

I did notice that. And I love Once Upon a Time. One of two broadcast shows I regularly watch. The other is Sleepy Hollow....can't wait for next fall.

[Laurabelle]

So, to lighten things up, did anyone else see Once Upon a Time last night and think Marion looked like Lourdes??

Hahaha I thought that very same thing when I first saw her. Thought it was an indication that I read this forum too much... :lol:

[Sister Mozz]

So, to lighten things up, did anyone else see Once Upon a Time last night and think Marion looked like Lourdes??

I did, as well!

[lilith]

A "Jacob Manteufel", who looks of an age to be Nolan's brother is liking Doug Phillip's Instagram pics of his kids (can't post screenshots cause it seems that His Tooliness has made his Instagram private). It's sad that Nolan's family doesn't seem to be supporting him and Lourdes.

Perry Coghlan is also liking the pics. Still playing both sides of the fence there Perry......