Lori Alexander's Tips on Avoiding Child Molestation

[GeoBQn]

The only thing that has changed since Ken graced us with his presence is the "come to Jesus" postscript on every post.

[Snarknado]

I would like to rewrite Lori's post in one sentence in order to make it more accurate.

"The best way to avoid child molestation is to never, ever teach your kids "Obey Instantly!"

[Ave Maria]

She frequently writes on the theme of "protecting" kids by isolating them. She once wrote a post about how parents should not let their children attend sleepovers because of the chance that they could be molested.

That's a tough one for me, because I know a family where that was an issue -- the girl in question was the guest of a friend her own age, but the older brother molested her during the sleepover. They were friends with the family in question for quite some time.

I know there's no way to eliminate all risk, but I am rather wary of sleepovers, especially with children too young to know the facts of life and/or too young to really understand it. I also think larger group sleepovers can create a really weird dynamic where things like "truth or dare" get a bit out of hand. Not saying I'd never let our children go on a sleepover, but I'd be very careful to weigh all the factors before deciding.

[2xx1xy1JD]

This topic makes me angry, because "stranger danger" paranoia contributed to a close relative being molested 20 years ago.

Obviously, I'd want to know the family where any sleepover was taking place, but sleepovers aren't hugely risky activities.

Children are most at risk from:

1. Those who have a history of molesting/sexually assaulting others

2. Non-related individuals in the home (step-parents or transient partners, foster parents or older foster siblings)

3. People in a position of authority (this is especially true in religious communities because the amount of authority is so much higher and affects not just the child but the entire family and surrounding community)

4. Family members, because the child may be dependent on them, feel more shame, believe threats made, and may have no one to turn to for help or fear (sometimes with good reason) that their family will turn against them.

Other risk factors:

1. Children who are less likely to disclose the abuse. This includes children who don't recognize what is happening, children who are disabled or otherwise less capable of disclosing the abuse, and children who are more isolated. Children who attend public schools, who watch TV and who interact with friends are more likely to have learned about saying no to bad touch and been told that they should disclose abuse to a parent, teacher or doctor. Children who are homeschooled and who don't go to activities and who don't go to doctors have no mandated reporters in their lives.

[Laurabelle]

1. Children who are less likely to disclose the abuse. This includes children who don't recognize what is happening, children who are disabled or otherwise less capable of disclosing the abuse, and children who are more isolated. Children who attend public schools, who watch TV and who interact with friends are more likely to have learned about saying no to bad touch and been told that they should disclose abuse to a parent, teacher or doctor. Children who are homeschooled and who don't go to activities and who don't go to doctors have no mandated reporters in their lives.

I agree with everything else you said, but this is unfortunately grossly untrue. "Children who are homeschooled" is VERY broad. If you were to say "fundie homeschooled children", that's probably more true, but as someone who was homeschooled (not fundie at all) and someone who will probably homeschool my kids and have friends who currently do, I have to call this out. I was taught, from a very young age, about saying no to innapropriate touching FROM ANYONE and told to either come tell my parents or tell a doctor, or another adult if it happened. I never felt like I couldn't be vocal against something like that, and I knew to be aware of that stuff. Unfortunately, I grew up with a few friends that were molested as kids, and two of them (both public schooled) did not come forward to tell their parents--or anyone for that matter--about it until much later. It was never instilled in them that they could and should by parents or school, I don't know. The one that did come forward immediately, was also homeschooled, and had a trusting relationship with her parents to where she felt able to share. Again, her parents had taught her how to say no and how to come forward if someone touched her innapropriately.

I firmly believe that parents should teach their kids this (how to say no, how to come and tell a trusted adult, etc.) no matter where their kids go to school! Lori is so incredibly wrong and clueless on this, it's sad. I don't know if they have kids or not (I assume they do), but I pray this never happens to one of them because of their parents' ignorance.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Oh the irony of two people writing the the fundie-go-to manual of abusing one's children, the Pearls, writing a book on how children should avoid stranger danger. No doubt children can be sexually abused or raped by strangers on the street, but I think it's pretty common knowledge most children are abused by someone who has constant contact with them like a parent, grandparent, other relatives, neighbor or priest/pastor/rabbi.

Lori is such a dumb git.

[thoughtful]

Oh the irony of two people writing the the fundie-go-to manual of abusing one's children, the Pearls, writing a book on how children should avoid stranger danger.

With free coloring pages, no less:

yellandtellbooks.com/color-samuel/

yellandtellbooks.com/color-sara-sue/

[Ave Maria]

I'm wary of the whole "stranger danger" thing too -- I'd want my kids to go up to an adult even if they didn't know them if they got lost in the store, at Disneyland, etc.

Sleepovers are an odd situation, though, because they are neither in public nor in private with trusted people. It is easier for an older sibling of the girl hosting the party to pull a kid aside with ill intent, and if it's a young kid they might freak and not know what to do about it. At a junior high or high school age I would consider it, but I'd be wary of sending a first or second grader off without a parent overnight.

[CynicMom]

I also don't like the idea of 'stranger danger'. What if a kid is lost... they're just supposed to sit there? What if something happens and they're SURROUNDED by strangers?

Story Edit: I tell my kids that if something happens they Trust Their Instincts and Look for an Adult (Preferably One With Kids). Apparently I am not the only mother who tells their kids this because I have been approached several times by kids who are lost and apparently think I look safe. And you know what? I drop everything and help! My kids have also been lost several times and the percentage of adults that help me find them (and help them find me) is around 100%. Most people kinda rock.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I also don't like the idea of 'stranger danger'. What if a kid is lost... they're just supposed to sit there? What if something happens and they're SURROUNDED by strangers?

Story Edit: I tell my kids that if something happens they Trust Their Instincts and Look for an Adult (Preferably One With Kids). Apparently I am not the only mother who tells their kids this because I have been approached several times by kids who are lost and apparently think I look safe. And you know what? I drop everything and help! My kids have also been lost several times and the percentage of adults that help me find them (and help them find me) is around 100%. Most people kinda rock.

Agreed. I've heard you're supposed to tell your kids to look for another mom. Of course most will be eager to help.

[Earthshine]

Lori clearly sees herself as an expert on All The Subjects. :roll:

Her post reminded me of this article I read recently. This woman was molested by her step-dad and the purity culture that Lori praises is the reason she passively accepted what he was doing to her and why he thought he had the right to treat her like he did. Her mother and three pastors were of no support to her when she told them what was going on.

http://www.alternet.org/how-christian-p ... 1#bookmark

But Lori would never allow an article like this to be discussed on her blog. It disproves what she claims to be true so she will just ignore it.

That was completely awful. :cry:

[usmcmom]

I also don't like the idea of 'stranger danger'. What if a kid is lost... they're just supposed to sit there? What if something happens and they're SURROUNDED by strangers?

Story Edit: I tell my kids that if something happens they Trust Their Instincts and Look for an Adult (Preferably One With Kids). Apparently I am not the only mother who tells their kids this because I have been approached several times by kids who are lost and apparently think I look safe. And you know what? I drop everything and help! My kids have also been lost several times and the percentage of adults that help me find them (and help them find me) is around 100%. Most people kinda rock.

I always told my kids to look for a mommy with children if they could not find a police officer or security guard. It was tricky with my daughter because she'd always add "Or a grandpa. Grandpas are good." And I'd have to say "No. look for a mommy with kids." It's such a frightening thing to have to talk about....

[Curious]

"Taking Porn by the Horn"

Can this please, PLEASE be a user post title? :lol:

Your wish is my command :)

[thoughtful]

Looking at the "Yell and Tell" coloring pages, there are pages that bring up the idea that it might not be a stranger who is the danger, and that it might even be one of mama's friends:

yellandtellbooks.com/sarasue-coloring-page-09.pdf

yellandtellbooks.com/sarasue-coloring-page-11.pdf

In the interest of accuracy, I had to say something not-critical about one of the Pearls. Damn, that hurt. :lol:

BTW, the title of the book is especially stupid, because it is Sara-Sue who is teaching this, and another child who is supposedly learning it. While writing and selling the book, it seems that Debi did not notice that at all.

Sometimes I think Debi Pearl must need to keep herself in a semi-conscious state to survive her life.

[OkToBeTakei]

I always told my kids to look for a mommy with children if they could not find a police officer or security guard. It was tricky with my daughter because she'd always add "Or a grandpa. Grandpas are good." And I'd have to say "No. look for a mommy with kids." It's such a frightening thing to have to talk about....

It's also important to emphasize a one size does not fill all (this being WAY above Lori's thinking.) Example. My child attends school in a small town of which she is very familiar and who or where to go or aim to go is second nature. I would tell her absolutely look out for a Mum with kids, or run into a shop, preferably a busy shop. My advice would no doubt be different if we lived VERY rurally or very large city.

She got the usual stranger danger talk from day one at school to which I added at age five with graphic lessons, how to scream exceptionally loudly, how to go for eyes with nails, how to use the heels of her shoes if restrained. Why yes, I am a psych nurse who worked in interesting secure environments. We all have our little foibles or fears.

Lori is totally clueless. One very simple goggle search and she can access REAL statistics ie. Not Kenmade ones. Not to put too fine a point on it if her version of life existed then the word incest would not exist I suppose. Gobshittery at it's finest. Ken hated the fact that some here called him creepy. The more she posts family stuff, the more creepy it appears I'm afraid.

[Full enough quiver]

I'm so glad my parents didnt let me go to sleepovers with non family members, or hang out with non Christians. It's great that I didn't have to go to daycare where I could have been abused by a stranger. Being abused by my grandfather the church deacon was definitely better. I'm sure it's every little girl's dream to be abused from age 3-13, and be threatened with foster care if I told. I was told that if I said anything, they'd take me away and put me in an orphanage where all the boys would molest me, and it was better coming from someone who loved me. Oh, and if I couldn't be sweet, maybe my sisters would. Guess what? I went along with it, and kept sweet. Do you know how screwed up it is to have to pretend to like it? Maybe if I'd been out in the world more I could have told sooner. Lori, the Pearls, and all the other fundies that believe this garbage can fuck themselves.

[latraviata]

I'm so glad my parents didnt let me go to sleepovers with non family members, or hang out with non Christians. It's great that I didn't have to go to daycare where I could have been abused by a stranger. Being abused by my grandfather the church deacon was definitely better. I'm sure it's every little girl's dream to be abused from age 3-13, and be threatened with foster care if I told. I was told that if I said anything, they'd take me away and put me in an orphanage where all the boys would molest me, and it was better coming from someone who loved me. Oh, and if I couldn't be sweet, maybe my sisters would. Guess what? I went along with it, and kept sweet. Do you know how screwed up it is to have to pretend to like it? Maybe if I'd been out in the world more I could have told sooner. Lori, the Pearls, and all the other fundies that believe this garbage can fuck themselves.

Oh dear, I am so sorry for you!

[OkToBeTakei]

I'm so glad my parents didnt let me go to sleepovers with non family members, or hang out with non Christians. It's great that I didn't have to go to daycare where I could have been abused by a stranger. Being abused by my grandfather the church deacon was definitely better. I'm sure it's every little girl's dream to be abused from age 3-13, and be threatened with foster care if I told. I was told that if I said anything, they'd take me away and put me in an orphanage where all the boys would molest me, and it was better coming from someone who loved me. Oh, and if I couldn't be sweet, maybe my sisters would. Guess what? I went along with it, and kept sweet. Do you know how screwed up it is to have to pretend to like it? Maybe if I'd been out in the world more I could have told sooner. Lori, the Pearls, and all the other fundies that believe this garbage can fuck themselves.

That's so shit. Nothing but hugs for you.

OF course Lori/Ken and ilk will say you are the exception not the rule. You don't fit the perfect crap they try to ad- minister to others. They are just so ignorant.

[Jana814]

I'm so glad my parents didnt let me go to sleepovers with non family members, or hang out with non Christians. It's great that I didn't have to go to daycare where I could have been abused by a stranger. Being abused by my grandfather the church deacon was definitely better. I'm sure it's every little girl's dream to be abused from age 3-13, and be threatened with foster care if I told. I was told that if I said anything, they'd take me away and put me in an orphanage where all the boys would molest me, and it was better coming from someone who loved me. Oh, and if I couldn't be sweet, maybe my sisters would. Guess what? I went along with it, and kept sweet. Do you know how screwed up it is to have to pretend to like it? Maybe if I'd been out in the world more I could have told sooner. Lori, the Pearls, and all the other fundies that believe this garbage can fuck themselves.

That horrible!! I'm soo sorry that happened to you.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Your wish is my command :)

:cracking-up: Thank you, Curious! :D :cracking-up:

[Mecca]

Oh yes, Lori, being isolated and in a fundie Christian family really helped me. Let's see, my brother, who was much older, a youth director, and the church piano player of our father's church, molested and raped me for years. I was threatened death and the death of others if I told. But hey, I did eventually tell my parents when I was a young teenager. And guess what? Nothing happened. That is right. Nothing happened. You know why? Because my Dad cared more about keeping his church intact and not having a scandal within his church. I was told that if I was a true believer, I would just forgive and move on. So as a young thirteen year old with parents that cared more about appearances and what their congregation thought of them, I was forced to have continued contact with the person that caused me great harm. 

But wait, it gets better. So a few years passed after I spoke up, my brother that harmed me was killed in an car accident and everyone made him out to be a martyr. My mother even told me his death was my fault because I wished him dead. I was given so much shit by family and my church for not crying at his funeral. The truth was, I was relieved. 

So yeah, you are going to have to excuse me, Lori, for not having much faith in your ignorant, harmful teachings. And yes, please go fuck yourself.... you clueless, seahag.

[lilah]

Lori Alexander teaches readers on how to protect their children against sexual abuse.

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2014/04/protecting-children-from-sexual-abuse.html

I'm assuming Debi Pearl's "yell and tell" method is not meant to be used by children whose own parents are hitting them.

You heard that--no step-parents, no single parents, no adoption, and no non-Christian faiths or non-faiths. Because child abuse NEVER EVER HAPPENS in two-parent Christian households.

Well that is guaranteed to cause issues later in life. She's also basically saying that pornography or sexual images existing is the same as child molestation.

Dan Savage has has a "youth pastor watch" on his blog, it's sickening. http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archiv ... stor-watch

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archiv ... uth-pastor

[FJismyheadship]

I went to a church once where this youth pastor acted totally inapropriate with a 12 year old. He was flirting with her, and at one point while driving down the road in the youth van, reached behind him and grabbed at her chest. She didnt appear to mind it, but it bothered me. My friend I was with claimed she told someone, but now that I know the kind of person she was, I dont believe her. I hope she did and I hope they did something about it.

[Hisey]

Oh yes, Lori, being isolated and in a fundie Christian family really helped me. Let's see, my brother, who was much older, a youth director, and the church piano player of our father's church, molested and raped me for years. I was threatened death and the death of others if I told. But hey, I did eventually tell my parents when I was a young teenager. And guess what? Nothing happened. That is right. Nothing happened. You know why? Because my Dad cared more about keeping his church intact and not having a scandal within his church. I was told that if I was a true believer, I would just forgive and move on. So as a young thirteen year old with parents that cared more about appearances and what their congregation thought of them, I was forced to have continued contact with the person that caused me great harm. 

But wait, it gets better. So a few years passed after I spoke up, my brother that harmed me was killed in an car accident and everyone made him out to be a martyr. My mother even told me his death was my fault because I wished him dead. I was given so much shit by family and my church for not crying at his funeral. The truth was, I was relieved. 

So yeah, you are going to have to excuse me, Lori, for not having much faith in your ignorant, harmful teachings. And yes, please go fuck yourself.... you clueless, seahag.

Mecca, what a sad and terrible story. I am so sorry that happened to you. It makes me very sad for you and angry at your mom.

The denial you describe reminds me of my own family. There was no sexual abuse in my family, but things were pretty bad because of my violent father. But my mother, though a victim, refused to admit anythign was wrong. She was also silent (to her dying day!) when other family members were abused. And I was always the bad one and to blame for any abuse I suffered. I was also bad because I refused to pretend it was OK. My mother said similar types of blaming things to me, like implying that I was "mad" at my father and that this caused his behavior, or that I "didn't like him," and of course I should. In our family, you were supposed to pretend to like the patriarch, no matter what he did. The sad thing is that my brothers, to this day, continue with this pretence that my father was a good parent, instead of a horrifying bad one.

[Rebelwife]

I also don't like the idea of 'stranger danger'. What if a kid is lost... they're just supposed to sit there? What if something happens and they're SURROUNDED by strangers?

Story Edit: I tell my kids that if something happens they Trust Their Instincts and Look for an Adult (Preferably One With Kids). Apparently I am not the only mother who tells their kids this because I have been approached several times by kids who are lost and apparently think I look safe. And you know what? I drop everything and help! My kids have also been lost several times and the percentage of adults that help me find them (and help them find me) is around 100%. Most people kinda rock.

I got a lot out of the book "Protecting the Gift" by Gavin de Becker. It's not perfect, but it helped my articulate to my children that "strangers" were not the enemy, but rather that anyone who made us uncomfortable was someone to be wary of. Maybe it's growing up in the south, but this whole "don't talk to strangers" thing would have sent the most confusing mixed messages - we talk to strangers all the time! :D

It pretty much the opposite philosophy of what our fundies teach - to listen to your instincts and not repress them.