Jill Duggar and Derick Dillard Engaged! - Part 2

[Boogalou]

Plus he is a religious missionary. To me that doesn't particularly scream 'mainstream'.

I agree. It is possible that they may become less extreme but so far there isn't much of anything to indicate that. Derrick's a missionary, he sought out Jim Bob as a prayer partner, he's courting, saving his first kiss for his wedding day and he passed JB and Jill's questionnaires. And Jill is Jill. They have both already said they want as many kids as possible. Very little indicates that they are going to become less extreme, although we will see what happens once Jill leaves the TTH. Sure, Derrick went to university but so did Steve Maxwell and Gill Bates.

[lascuba]

Why does everyone think that Derick being educated mean he and Jill will be fundie-light or mainstream and that he will encourage Jill to get a real education? At least half of the fundie parents we snark on went to college and THEN become fundie.

Why would anyone think that Derick is still "mainstream" christian after jumping through all of Boobs many hoops? He is being fast-tracked to the altar and I'm sure he is at least as Kool-Aid guzzling as Jill. For once my optimism just isn't coming through :?

This tendency on FJ to believe that these fundie kids will somehow be better than their parents baffles the hell out of me. Sure, I have my own wishful thinking for some of the kids I like (or more accurately, the kids who's tv persona I like), but there is very little if any evidence that these kids aren't as fanatical as their parents. And Derick--who didn't grow up fundie but CHOSE to embrace it as an adult--is likely even crazier. Maybe it's my bias against missionaries, but I don't him or Jill becoming fundie lite, ever.

[Snarknado]

And so my hunt for a nice, orthodox jewish man begins... ;)

This quite literally made me laugh out loud.

[Tangy Bee]

This tendency on FJ to believe that these fundie kids will somehow be better than their parents baffles the hell out of me. Sure, I have my own wishful thinking for some of the kids I like (or more accurately, the kids who's tv persona I like), but there is very little if any evidence that these kids aren't as fanatical as their parents. And Derick--who didn't grow up fundie but CHOSE to embrace it as an adult--is likely even crazier. Maybe it's my bias against missionaries, but I don't him or Jill becoming fundie lite, ever.

No...what really "baffles" me is the fact that these people are famous enough to have an article about them in People mag for a week! :lol: Ever since Jill's engagement there have been interviews about the engagement and courtship. In fact People Mag was where I first found about Jill & Derick. There is an interview where Ben is talking about not being too young to accept what you want in life...or something. It's not a correct quote but it's close to what he said. I'm thinking he said that because folks have been concerned with his age. I also think Derick is "lucky" that JB became his prayer buddy. He probably had hopes and plans ALL the long that he might get to meet one of the daughters. If this is true...the plan worked. Derick CHOSE to embrace fundie so he could get Jill! He is doing what he's gotta do to get that band on her finger. Just my opinion.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

This tendency on FJ to believe that these fundie kids will somehow be better than their parents baffles the hell out of me. Sure, I have my own wishful thinking for some of the kids I like (or more accurately, the kids who's tv persona I like), but there is very little if any evidence that these kids aren't as fanatical as their parents. And Derick--who didn't grow up fundie but CHOSE to embrace it as an adult--is likely even crazier. Maybe it's my bias against missionaries, but I don't him or Jill becoming fundie lite, ever.

I don't think they'll completely abandon everything they've been taught, but these kids have seen first hand what growing up in that environment is like. Plus, as much as JB and Michelle have mocked other cultures, they've exposed their kids to so many different ways of living. Even if they still follow quiverful ideologies, these kids are already different than what their training wants them to be.

Even Josh, with all his offensive views, isn't the type of guy ATI wants him to be. Sure, there are a lot of similarities, but his life experiences have changed him. And Anna, who sucked down that koolaide, also isn't the same type of girl ATI wants her to be. Again, there are many similarities, but there are also differences. Just look how they've been changing their attitudes towards child rearing. Yes Anna wants as many as possible (or claims to at least), but Mac has hardly been dressed like girls should be, especially now that they're away from JB and Michelle. She's been seen in a tunic and leggings. Little girls aren't supposed to dress like that under ATI rules.

And, we can see just in how the 4 older girls behave, that the submissive training didn't work. The girls are strong, stubborn, and think for themselves. Those aren't qualities that JB and Michelle have said women should have. These girls aren't the type that will sit around for the man to make the decision, as their believes say they should be.

And, I really don't think we can gauge how they view family size limits based on what they tell the media. OF COURSE they will say they want as big of a family as god will give them. They're expected to say that, whether they believe it or not. It's part of the Duggar brand.

Even if they did mean it, that hardly means they're going to be going at it like rabbits every month of the year. To have as many as god will give you means that you don't stop a pregnancy that would have happened. But that doesn't mean you have to constantly try. Michelle and JB constantly tried because they're stupid and insane. But there are many quiverfulls who have 2-7 kids.

[Kira]

1. How is Josh not the guy ATI wants him to be?

2. Many fundie little girls dress like Mackenzie, including her aunts.

3. The 4 older girls may have their own thoughts, but JB and Michelle make the final decisions.

4. Many of those quivrfull families with 2-7 kids were also insane and tried for more kids

[Snarknado]

This tendency on FJ to believe that these fundie kids will somehow be better than their parents baffles the hell out of me. Sure, I have my own wishful thinking for some of the kids I like (or more accurately, the kids who's tv persona I like), but there is very little if any evidence that these kids aren't as fanatical as their parents. And Derick--who didn't grow up fundie but CHOSE to embrace it as an adult--is likely even crazier. Maybe it's my bias against missionaries, but I don't him or Jill becoming fundie lite, ever.

I agree. I think the chances of the youngest kids becoming fundie lite is much greater.

[Kira]

There really is so much wishful thinking on FJ. When Issac Botkin announced his engagement, out of nowhere there was quite a few post about him leaving and becoming less fundie. We were so sure that Erin would wait until she graduated before she got pregnant or that Melanie Maxwell would stop at three kids. And now Jill and Jessa are just saying they want big families to please their parents. I keep hearing "they raised their siblings, there's no way they'll have that many kids" despite the fact that other fundie adult children have done the same thing. it is not hard for me to believe that they actually believe the values their parents taught them.

[Snarknado]

There really is so much wishful thinking on FJ. When Issac Botkin announced his engagement, out of nowhere there was quite a few post about him leaving and becoming less fundie. We were so sure that Erin would wait until she graduated before she got pregnant or that Melanie Maxwell would stop at three kids. And now Jill and Jessa are just saying they want big families to please their parents. I keep hearing "they raised their siblings, there's no way they'll have that many kids" despite the fact that other fundie adult children have done the same thing. it is not hard for me to believe that they actually believe the values their parents taught them.

If any of them do leave it may not be until they are well into a marriage with several children.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

1. How is Josh not the guy ATI wants him to be?

2. Many fundie little girls dress like Mackenzie, including her aunts.

3. The 4 older girls may have their own thoughts, but JB and Michelle make the final decisions.

4. Many of those quivrfull families with 2-7 kids were also insane and tried for more kids

1. Josh speaks of homosexuality openly (when he's arguing against it, of course). In ATI, you're not allowed to speak of sexuality in general, and definitely not homosexuality. Gothard even repressed biblical descriptions of sexuality (such as the Song of Solomon) calling it a "disgrace to speak of such." Josh has a TV at home which has been seen playing in at least a couple episodes; under ATI's rules, you're not even allowed to watch a TV in your hotel room. Josh is not an early riser; many episodes talk about how before 10 am is early for him. Under ATI teachings, one must be an early riser. Josh, like many Duggar boys, wears denim, which is "of the devil" and a sign of rebellion according to ATI. Josh wears tshirts that don't have collars. Such tshirts are just as bad as jeans. You are to fast regularly (at least on Sundays) to be godly like Gothard, but I can almost guarantee fasting isn't in Josh's vocabulary. I would go on, but the wireless internet has decided to fail, and searching for things using my phone will more than likely cause this to refresh losing everything I've already typed.

2. "Fundie" is a very broad term. There are hundreds of factions of "fundies." Being "fundie" doesn't make you ATI. It's like one of those square to rectangle things. Furthermore, all of her aunts wear dresses or skirts (with some exceptions like snow pants or when the girls were first responders and wore pants; not sure if they stopped that after the episode where they had to sew skirts for the "job." In fact, I'm not sure that they continued being first responders after that.)

3. The older girls are only under JB's authority until they're married. Then, they are under their husbands authority. They are encouraged to seek their parents blessings after marriage, but the authority is no longer theirs.

4. Many people of many faiths want/try to have more children. I don't see the point in your argument.

[elsabee]

If any of them do leave it may not be until they are well into a marriage with several children.

We have to keep hope alive.

[Kira]

1. Josh speaks of homosexuality openly (when he's arguing against it, of course). In ATI, you're not allowed to speak of sexuality in general, and definitely not homosexuality. Gothard even repressed biblical descriptions of sexuality (such as the Song of Solomon) calling it a "disgrace to speak of such." Josh has a TV at home which has been seen playing in at least a couple episodes; under ATI's rules, you're not even allowed to watch a TV in your hotel room. Josh is not an early riser; many episodes talk about how before 10 am is early for him. Under ATI teachings, one must be an early riser. Josh, like many Duggar boys, wears denim, which is "of the devil" and a sign of rebellion according to ATI. Josh wears tshirts that don't have collars. Such tshirts are just as bad as jeans. You are to fast regularly (at least on Sundays) to be godly like Gothard, but I can almost guarantee fasting isn't in Josh's vocabulary. I would go on, but the wireless internet has decided to fail, and searching for things using my phone will more than likely cause this to refresh losing everything I've already typed.

2. "Fundie" is a very broad term. There are hundreds of factions of "fundies." Being "fundie" doesn't make you ATI. It's like one of those square to rectangle things. Furthermore, all of her aunts wear dresses or skirts (with some exceptions like snow pants or when the girls were first responders and wore pants; not sure if they stopped that after the episode where they had to sew skirts for the "job." In fact, I'm not sure that they continued being first responders after that.)

3. The older girls are only under JB's authority until they're married. Then, they are under their husbands authority. They are encouraged to seek their parents blessings after marriage, but the authority is no longer theirs.

4. Many people of many faiths want/try to have more children. I don't see the point in your argument.

1. While Gothard doesn't like descriptions of sex, Josh speaking out against homosexuality any gay marriage gets him +1000 ATI points. Gothard is happy that Josh is spreading his anti gay and anti choice messages.Kelly Bates and other ATI followers have spoken out about homosexuality. There is no rule against TV. Michelle and JB were told to get rid of the TV for the first year of their marriage, but they have a TV in their home. I've never heard them say jeans and t-shirts are bad.

2. I meant the little girls. I don't think they expect little children to be skirts only. I've seen other ATI followers dress their children the way Mac dresses.

3. If the 4 older girl were strong and stubborn and free thinking they would have to be under anyone's authority. There are not different types of fundies, but there are different types of Christians. Letting your daughter were pants or letting doesn't make you less fundie. You could go to Harvard, wear daisy dukes, and have only one child and still be fundie. I don't believe in fundie-lite.

4. I thought you were saying all of those families purposely limited the number of kids they have.

[Palimpsest]

We have to keep hope alive.

Seriously! I was deeply encouraged when John Shrader posted a link on Facebook to a very Fundie Christian site claiming that over 60% of today's Fundie offspring have renounced the LORD and followed Satan.

Horrors! For John that was terrible and needed prayers and interventions. For me, it was manna for the soul! I so wish I'd saved the link because John flounced and wiped his Facebook.

I'm still searching for it. I'll post if I can find it again.

[Toothfairy]

1. Josh speaks of homosexuality openly (when he's arguing against it, of course). In ATI, you're not allowed to speak of sexuality in general, and definitely not homosexuality. Gothard even repressed biblical descriptions of sexuality (such as the Song of Solomon) calling it a "disgrace to speak of such." Josh has a TV at home which has been seen playing in at least a couple episodes; under ATI's rules, you're not even allowed to watch a TV in your hotel room. Josh is not an early riser; many episodes talk about how before 10 am is early for him. Under ATI teachings, one must be an early riser. Josh, like many Duggar boys, wears denim, which is "of the devil" and a sign of rebellion according to ATI. Josh wears tshirts that don't have collars. Such tshirts are just as bad as jeans. You are to fast regularly (at least on Sundays) to be godly like Gothard, but I can almost guarantee fasting isn't in Josh's vocabulary. I would go on, but the wireless internet has decided to fail, and searching for things using my phone will more than likely cause this to refresh losing everything I've already typed.

2. "Fundie" is a very broad term. There are hundreds of factions of "fundies." Being "fundie" doesn't make you ATI. It's like one of those square to rectangle things. Furthermore, all of her aunts wear dresses or skirts (with some exceptions like snow pants or when the girls were first responders and wore pants; not sure if they stopped that after the episode where they had to sew skirts for the "job." In fact, I'm not sure that they continued being first responders after that.)

3. The older girls are only under JB's authority until they're married. Then, they are under their husbands authority. They are encouraged to seek their parents blessings after marriage, but the authority is no longer theirs.

4. Many people of many faiths want/try to have more children. I don't see the point in your argument.

How can you be a man of god and judge gay people :roll: josh is such a prick. So if he has to be at a job at 8pm that's too early? The real world doesn't work on Duggar time.

[Jilli]

Jill just posted her wedding website on Twitter: http://www.theknot.com/wedding/Jill-and-Derick

edit: It's not fully filled out yet by any means, but hey June 21 is their date!

[Katydid]

Jill just posted her wedding website on Twitter: http://www.theknot.com/wedding/Jill-and-Derick

edit: It's not fully filled out yet by any means, but hey June 21 is their date!

They really do make an attractive couple.

[16strong]

Oh wow. They are certainly not waiting to get married. I do Like many of the things on their registry, though. The red they've chosen is a much nicer color than Erin and Alyssa's candy colors. I also like the wood bowls and accents, too. It's stuff I would choose.

[Justme]

6/21 is only 2 months away. She won't be able to order a dress, she'll have to buy a sample. But, maybe TLC will hire a designer to make a custom one.

I wonder why so fast? Are they "that" Horney?!?

[Bubblewand]

Looking at the pics on their wedding website. There it is, the classic love-on-the-train-tracks pose. :roll: Who is suprised?

[singsingsing]

About three months from engagement to wedding is a pretty normal time frame for fundies.

[Feberin]

There really is so much wishful thinking on FJ. When Issac Botkin announced his engagement, out of nowhere there was quite a few post about him leaving and becoming less fundie. We were so sure that Erin would wait until she graduated before she got pregnant or that Melanie Maxwell would stop at three kids. And now Jill and Jessa are just saying they want big families to please their parents. I keep hearing "they raised their siblings, there's no way they'll have that many kids" despite the fact that other fundie adult children have done the same thing. it is not hard for me to believe that they actually believe the values their parents taught them.

I agree there is too much wishful thinking. While I understand wanting to have hope that the Duggar children aren't going to follow in their parents path I think so far all the children in relationship appear to be following in their parents footsteps. Every time Anna gets pregnant I feel like somebody says that one or two or three kids really isn't that many and they're sure there won't be another or they'll wait awhile. Although Anna (thankfully) doesn't seem to have Michelle's fertility it seems to me that she's definitely not intentionally waiting and spacing out children using some type of BC (including NFP). I don't see Jill who has always seemed the most fundie of the girls likely to abandon it all once she marries or to marry a man who isn't a fundie himself. He's a missionary so I don't think he's just putting on an act for Jim Bob. The only one I could currently see eventually saying enough is enough is Jessa since she's always seemed to have little patience with her siblings. But I don't think that will happen until she has a few of them since she's been raised to believe that is what she is supposed to do and her one purpose in life.

[Earthshine]

Does anyone know Jim Bob and Michelle's anniversary date? I am pretty sure this year is their thirtieth anniversary and that they got married during the summer. I wonder if they are corny enough to pick Jim Bob and Michelle's anniversary for their wedding day?

[singsingsing]

Does anyone know Jim Bob and Michelle's anniversary date? I am pretty sure this year is their thirtieth anniversary and that they got married during the summer. I wonder if they are corny enough to pick Jim Bob and Michelle's anniversary for their wedding day?

According to Wikipedia they were married on July 21st, 1984. So yes, this year is their 30th anniversary, but no, Jill and Derick won't share the date with them.

[Mama Mia]

I like that they picked a wide range of prices for their registry, including many under $20 items, and a few $10. I think that's much more thoughtful than some registeries where everything is $50-100 or more.

[Earthshine]

According to Wikipedia they were married on July 21st, 1984. So yes, this year is their 30th anniversary, but no, Jill and Derick won't share the date with them.

Good. I'm glad they are having their own day.