Jill Duggar and Derick Dillard Engaged! - Part 2

[HereticHick]

I went back and looked at Josh's Instagram about his trip to Israel around Jan. 10. Its mysterious--gives no clues about why he was there, and all photos are of him alone--no one else, and no mention of anyone else. So perhaps Derick was there at the same time, or perhaps not.

So, did Derick buy the ring before they were officially "courting"? Or did they start officially courting when she flew to Katmandu [which, by the way, is what they should name their 1st kid. Kat for short!] :)

[veron1que]

Natural family planning is a thing used by fundies/fundie lites i know. The thought is that they are not actively trying to conceive, but if the lord willed it they would conceive again. Being quiverfull doesn't always mean baby hoarders. I have heard quiverfull moms express fear/concern about family size and then say it's a testament of their faith that they trust god in his plans. I have much more faith that the girls will practice natural family planning than be like their parents and aim for as many children as possible. I think most of the duggars will fall between 4 and 8 children. (Of those who marry).

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Where do you get that they are less into ATI's teachings? The girls' book is one long tribute to Gothard's teachings. Maybe they are trying to distance themsevles publically now to disassociate themselves from the scandal, but I don't think we've really seen anything that indicates that they are going to encourage their children to plan their families.

I do admit that their engagement announcement video was very sweet and made me tear up a little.

Jill has been seen dancing and with a woman at that, which is a huge no in ATI. They're definitely not grooming submissive girls. They're marrying their girls to non-ATI guys, and it's the guys who decide the religion under ATI rules. Jill's boy has facial hair, which is also another huge no. Mac was wearing a tunic and leggings. The parents are much less modest. They're actively seeking ways to get 20, not waiting for god to decide.

And just because they're less ATI than before doesn't mean they're going to completely undo all of their brainwashing in one go. Courtships have always been stressed as important, and the girls probably see it as being that important regardless of whether they're ATI or not. It may be less important (or not important at all) with the younger kids or the boys, though.

Also, you're assuming that a book written before any of them had known courting experience is going to determine all of their love lives.

[Earthshine]

I went back and looked at Josh's Instagram about his trip to Israel around Jan. 10. Its mysterious--gives no clues about why he was there, and all photos are of him alone--no one else, and no mention of anyone else. So perhaps Derick was there at the same time, or perhaps not.

So, did Derick buy the ring before they were officially "courting"? Or did they start officially courting when she flew to Katmandu [which, by the way, is what they should name their 1st kid. Kat for short!] :)

He bought the ring in Israel. And he went to Israel in January-according to what I've read.

[ladyaudley]

Holy moly, I don't check this place because I'm travelling for a day and it all blows up! ^^ Dill engaged, PT and Prissy pregnant..

Jill looks radiant. Good for her!

[Toothfairy]

Natural family planning is a thing used by fundies/fundie lites i know. The thought is that they are not actively trying to conceive, but if the lord willed it they would conceive again. Being quiverfull doesn't always mean baby hoarders. I have heard quiverfull moms express fear/concern about family size and then say it's a testament of their faith that they trust god in his plans. I have much more faith that the girls will practice natural family planning than be like their parents and aim for as many children as possible. I think most of the duggars will fall between 4 and 8 children. (Of those who marry).

Maybe some will decide they want to be childless.

[Toothfairy]

Jill has been seen dancing and with a woman at that, which is a huge no in ATI. They're definitely not grooming submissive girls. They're marrying their girls to non-ATI guys, and it's the guys who decide the religion under ATI rules. Jill's boy has facial hair, which is also another huge no. Mac was wearing a tunic and leggings. The parents are much less modest. They're actively seeking ways to get 20, not waiting for god to decide.

And just because they're less ATI than before doesn't mean they're going to completely undo all of their brainwashing in one go. Courtships have always been stressed as important, and the girls probably see it as being that important regardless of whether they're ATI or not. It may be less important (or not important at all) with the younger kids or the boys, though.

Also, you're assuming that a book written before any of them had known courting experience is going to determine all of their love lives.

I will admit I thought Jill drunk most of the Duggars Koolaid

[HereticHick]

We also cannot assume that the girls wrote what they REALLY think in their book.

[Edited because Satan made me type too fast.]

[nokidsmom]

Will also cannot assume that the girls wrote what they REALLY think in their book.

More like they wrote what their parents' think. They have all been emotionally blanket trained to parrot mom and dad's beliefs whether they realize it or not.

It's only a matter of time when the tell-all book with the real opinions comes out. J'parents will not be able to control 19 kids forever and at least one of them is bound to wake up and realize the mess they were raised in. It will not be a good day for the J'parents, methinks, when that book comes out.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Jill has grown on me over the years...at first I thought that she was the most brainwashed of the older girls, and not very bright, but she actually appears to be the most intelligent and independent of them, and seems like a nice person. She is the most enthusiastic of the girls, and although that has made her be seen as the most fundie, it has also helped her because it has driven her to want to succeed in life and want to be a midwife.

I wonder what Michelle and Jimbob are going to do to embarrass her in front of Derick.

"Hey Jill, come into our bedroom for a minute"

"AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

"Oh dear, you caught us humping like Viagra soaked bunnies! I didn't mean you to come in now...I meant later. We are having sweet fellowship right now, you should have knocked. Just so you know, you aren't allowed to do this"

Once all of the kids are courting, theyre probably going to invite over all the kids and their partners and then hump right on the dining room table right in front of them.

[louisa05]

We also cannot assume that the girls wrote what they REALLY think in their book.

[Edited because Satan made me type too fast.]

I'm not sure we can assume they wrote any of it at all.

[YPestis]

I posted about that. If someone else did, I missed it. I was never a fundy, but taught for six years in a private Christian school with kids who were seriously fundy, "radically" fundy lite, everything conceivably in between that and a few not so religious whose parents thought a small, private high school would offer a better environment and education.

Some of the most kool-aid drinking kids I taught there are not religious at all anymore.

Exhibit A: J was "on fire" for God. Her junior year, she began carrying around a copy of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" to encourage other students to ask her about it. She campaigned to ban students from coupling up for the homecoming and pseudo-prom "banquets" (no dancing). While she didn't entirely succeed, they did get rid of the $12 per person/$20 per couple pricing of tickets to help discourage dates. She was at her church the majority of time that she was not at school. She decided not to go to college so she could go to an intense spiritual training program in her Assembly of God church (called Master's Commission, google it, it is rather cult like). She cut herself off from her formerly Catholic father (parents were divorced) because he was not "saved". She felt bad for her mother who only had two children and thus wasted her true calling to "mother children in to the faith". She lectured me, her single female teacher age early 20s, about being too independent and needing a church or a man to submit to. She was the first kid to get up at chapel testimony time and explain to all the others that they were not holy enough. In short, she was absolutely obnoxious. Somehow, I loved this one anyway and saw potential in this one. If she could just find some balance, I thought. She had none.

Where is J today? The fun part of Facebook for me has been that I have been able to be in touch with some of these kids. J is married to a man she lived with for two years first. They do not attend church. She works part time at Whole Foods and is a crunchy, hippie liberal. They have one adorable child and she recently answered someone's question about having more by saying she thinks one is probably enough. She feels that she was obnoxious and misguided in high school and her early 20s. She regrets wasting the time when she could have pursued an education past high school.

Exhibit B: C was Mr. Perfect Christian. C sometimes raised his hand in class and quoted Bible verses as an argument about something (I was never sure what. It never made much sense). C once wrote an entire essay on a history test for me about how history didn't matter as all that really mattered is what we knew about Jesus and our relationship with him. C won the "Dove Award" (which several cynical teachers called the "Best Christian" award or the "Most Arrogant Kid" award--given to one boy and one girl in each class) four years in a row. C would have been the first up at testimony time in chapel but J always beat him to the microphone. C famously confronted his younger brother in the middle of lunch one day for flirting too much with girls while eating. His parents would talk at conferences about how amazing C was and how they feared what would become of his rebellious younger brother (we'll call him D), who was not rebellious at all by normal standards.

Where is C today? He is on the East Coast, last time I knew, working in fashion and living with his male partner. D, the rebel, meanwhile, is in the same city he grew up in, married to a good girl from high school, part of a "church plant" and has four kids.

Parents actually need to watch out most for the kids who guzzle their religious kool-aid.

Cool stories. It's interesting how kids end up after high school, isn't it? However, I don't hold much hope that the Duggar kids (or most of the other fundies we discuss here) will do a 180 like that. In fact, I'm pretty sure most will grow up to continue the fundie lifestyle in some form. That's what happens to most children....they grew up and adopt the lifestyle their parents raised them in. The rebels that change so drastically probably had something unhappy in their childhood AND they were self-aware enough to realize that and want to leave their lifestyle. I don't think the Duggar kids think their childhood unhappy. Their insular upbringing means they have few opportunities to observe other forms of happy families. I can see some of the older girls wanting smaller families (meaning fewer than 8 :lol: ) but to do a complete conversion to mainstream lifestyle? Nah. I would pay good money to watch that unfold!

[louisa05]

I find it hard to believe that all 19 of those kids will keep the extreme fundy lifestyle they were raised in. The odds are totally against that. And you missed a huge point--it was not the teenage rebels that left extremism. The rebels I can find have uniformly conformed to their parents' lifestyles. The super Christian kids I have found have all become more liberal than how they were raised in varying degrees.

[Georgiana]

Cool stories. It's interesting how kids end up after high school, isn't it? However, I don't hold much hope that the Duggar kids (or most of the other fundies we discuss here) will do a 180 like that. In fact, I'm pretty sure most will grow up to continue the fundie lifestyle in some form. That's what happens to most children....they grew up and adopt the lifestyle their parents raised them in. The rebels that change so drastically probably had something unhappy in their childhood AND they were self-aware enough to realize that and want to leave their lifestyle. I don't think the Duggar kids think their childhood unhappy. Their insular upbringing means they have few opportunities to observe other forms of happy families. I can see some of the older girls wanting smaller families (meaning fewer than 8 :lol: ) but to do a complete conversion to mainstream lifestyle? Nah. I would pay good money to watch that unfold!

You never know! For some kids, being uber religious is just a phase they go through when they're trying to "find themselves". Sort of like how my cousin is into Black Veil Brides, wears crazy make up (eyeliner all over, half her lips painted black), and thinks she's a real vampire. She's not, she's a human. And eventually, she'll get older and realize who you are isn't some gimmick, it's connecting with your inner self. She might keep the style, but realize there is a time and a place for the more extreme expressions of it. Some kids do this with religion instead. Some kids rebel, some kids try to please their parents more.

This is one of the few ways that the Duggar kids can try to find themselves, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if many eventually come out of it or find they don't actually believe everything their parents do. Right now, the only way to stand out is to be the "most religious", so I'm sure many of the kids are drawn to that as a way to feel special and unique.

[for_the_Kitties]

Good for them. I hope she is able to continue to peruse her midwifery, and maybe just maybe get qualifications from a real school or nursing program.

Speaking of totally off topic health stuff.. One of the kids in the skating class I teach sneezed directly in my face while I was tying his skates. Now my throat is scratchy. Is 8 hours enough time to incubate a cold or am I just being paranoid?

Zinc, Zinc, and more zinc. All of the zinc. Get some in tablet form and take it every 4-6 hours with food or water. 3 years of cold/flu season with this method and I have yet to get sick.

[for_the_Kitties]

I'm not sure we can assume they wrote any of it at all.

They had a ghostwriter - from what I recall.

[jerkit]

They had a ghostwriter - from what I recall.

That ghostwriter should be fired immediately.

My 13-year-old niece could've written a better book than that.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

They had a ghostwriter - from what I recall.

I assume from "that's an awful picture of us" *crowd of girls seeing the picture and agreeing* that they had very little to do with much of the book.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I'm on the fence about Ben and Jessa. On the one hand, they could really care about each other and want to go through with this, and any awkwardness could be attributed to Jessa simply not being comfortable in front of the cameras. On the other hand, she could just be latching onto him because she sees Ben as her way out of being a sister-mom to her siblings. She's shown in the past to be less than thrilled to be saddled with buddies.

Bottom line: I think the need to leave outweighs any feelings Jessa may have been for Ben, whether those feelings are loving or ambivalent. But she's chosen wrong if she thinks she's going to put the brakes on childbearing and child-rearing. I think he's determined to start popping babies out immediately, and at most, she's looking at a 1-year reprieve before the cycle begins again.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I'm on the fence about Ben and Jessa. On the one hand, they could really care about each other and want to go through with this, and any awkwardness could be attributed to Jessa simply not being comfortable in front of the cameras. On the other hand, she could just be latching onto him because she sees Ben as her way out of being a sister-mom to her siblings. She's shown in the past to be less than thrilled to be saddled with buddies.

Bottom line: I think the need to leave outweighs any feelings Jessa may have been for Ben, whether those feelings are loving or ambivalent. But she's chosen wrong if she thinks she's going to put the brakes on childbearing and child-rearing. I think he's determined to start popping babies out immediately, and at most, she's looking at a 1-year reprieve before the cycle begins again.

I doubt that she's just looking for a way out. She's admitted in a past season that JB has tried setting her and her sisters up with boys before and they were weirdos. If she was looking for a way out, she would have jumped on one of those boys.

Also remember that the episodes we've seen were early in the courtship. Of course she's going to be awkward. She's going from a background character to the spotlight, she's getting to know a boy with the idea of marrying him as opposed to just being friends, she isn't allowed to touch him except side hugs and always has people making sure of that, she's not allowed to even text him alone, etc. Jill at least had a few months of talking to Derick before they met, which gave her the ability to get to know him before adding the other parts of the equation in.

[Jessica]

Zinc, Zinc, and more zinc. All of the zinc. Get some in tablet form and take it every 4-6 hours with food or water. 3 years of cold/flu season with this method and I have yet to get sick.

That and cod liver oil.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

That and cod liver oil.

Gelatin (quality stuff like Hooiser Hills or Great Lakes, or better yet bone broth; not Knox or Jello) is really good for your immune system (and everything else in your body for that matter) and has all sorts of important vitamins and nutrients.

[FloraKitty35]

Well, Jill does follow Barack Obama on Twitter, Perhaps she is secretly a Democrat? :P

Jim Bob would disown her for that. :lol:

[Dandruff]

The suggestion that Jill and Derick will try to limit the amount of children they have is, frankly, laughable. Remember, to these people doing ANYTHING to prevent a pregnancy is an automatic ticket to Hell. Derick most likely doesn't have quite such extreme views but I doubt he'll be using condoms, something Jill would definitely NOT be okay with. The most he could hope for to limit their family size is figure out Jill's cycle and avoid the sexy times those few days a month. Not full proof, but better than nothing.

Basically, they're going to end up with a shitton of kids and I hope they start saving all the money they make from the show now so they don't end up like Anna's sister and brother-in-law in 10 years. Living in a camper tent, trying to be missionaries, 8 kids under 10 and another on the way. It could happen...

I also don't think they'll try to limit the number of children they have, and they may both want as many children as possible. Jill has never seemed to be overwhelmed by her buddy responsibilities anyway.

I don't know how much it costs to live in a place like Nepal as a missionary. I suspect that since Jill is a Duggar there could be many people and/or churches who would be willing to sponsor them, plus the TLC money. They may have no problem making ends meet as long as they're living in a relatively low-cost area.

[bekkah]

I'm excited for this pairing. To find someone to spend your life with is fantastic. Dill seems so happy and he just wants to be with her so bad. I think they love each other but I hope they don't have too many children.