Nebraska Catholics - Anti-Contraception Letter from Bishop

[Peas n carrots]

Like locusts, every 17 years (give or take a few years) the Bishop of the Lincoln Diocese likes to emerge from his cocoon and make a statement about contraception. I grew up in this tepid pool of conservative Catholicism where they still do not allow young women to be alter servers or let women have any kind of meaningful role in the church other than a musician. At any rate, here is the latest edict that came from Bishop Conley, telling all us childless we are selfish heathens and that birth control is of teh debil. Thankfully, I had parents that took almost none of it seriously and influenced me in that way as well.

http://journalstar.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/bishop-issues-new-letter-to-catholics-concerning-contraception/article_0645117f-5064-5d63-acf6-a23c56abd74c.html?mode=comments

I will spare you the wall of text that makes the vein in my temple throb while reading this, but I will provide a few Lori Alexander-esque tidbits from Bishop Conley:

In my priesthood, I have stood in front of abortion clinics to offer help to women experiencing unwanted pregnancies; I have prayed with the neglected elderly; and I have buried young victims of violence. I have seen the isolation, the injustice, and the sadness that comes from a world short on love. Mother Teresa believed, as do I, that much of the world’s unhappiness and injustice begins with a disregard for the miracle of life created in the womb of mothers. Today, our culture rejects love when it rejects the gift of new life, through the use of contraception

^All us contraception using women are apparently unable to really love.

As Bishop of Lincoln, I repeat the words of Bishop Flavin. Dear married men and women: I exhort you to reject the use of contraception in your marriage. I challenge you to be open to God’s loving plan for your life. I invite you to share in the gift of God’s live-­â€giving love. I fervently believe that in God’s plan, you will rediscover real love for your spouse, your children, for God, and for the Church. I know that in this openness to life, you will find the rich adventure for which you were made.

^Once again, us people who don't have children possibly cannot know what real love is.

Our culture often teaches us that children are more a burden than a gift—that families impede our freedom and diminish our finances. We live in a world where large families are the objects of spectacle and derision, instead of the ordinary consequence of a loving marriage entrusted to God’s providence. But children should not be feared as a threat or a burden, but rather seen as a sign of hope for the future.

^Bishop Conley: Duggar Leghumper

In 1995, Blessed John Paul II wrote that our culture suffers from a “hedonistic mentality unwilling to accept responsibility in matters of sexuality, and… a self-­â€centered concept of freedom, which regards procreation as an obstacle to personal fulfilment. †Generous, life-­†giving spousal love is the antitode to hedonism and immaturity: parents gladly give up frivolous pursuits and selfishness for the intensely more meaningful work of loving and educating their children.

^Thanks Bishop Conley for reinforcing the belief that people without children are inherently selfish. I would love to hear him say that to someone with fertility issues.

In the Diocese of Lincoln, I am grateful for the example of hundreds of families who have opened themselves freely and generously to children. Some have been given large families, and some have not. And of course, a few suffer the very difficult, hidden cross of infertility or low fertility. The mystery of God’s plan for our lives is incomprehensible. But the joy of these families, whether or not they bear many children, disproves the claims of the contraceptive mentality.

^Looks like those infertile folks were an after thought. It's like the Bishop is saying "oh, well that sucks you selfish asshole."

Of course, there are some true and legitimate reasons why, at certain times, families may discern that more children would become a serious burden to them. For families with serious mental, physical, or emotional health problems, or who are experiencing dire financial troubles, bearing children might best be delayed. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that couples must have “just†reasons to delay childbearing. For couples facing difficulties of various kinds, the Church recommends Natural Family Planning: a method for making choices about engaging in fruitful sexual relations.

^"Well, I suppose if you really just can't pop out babies right now you can use NFP." :roll:

Natural Family Planning is a reliable and trustworthy way to regulate fertility, is easy to learn, and can be a source of unity for couples. To be sure, using NFP requires sacrifice and patience, but sacrifice and patience are not obstacles to love, they are a part of love itself. Used correctly, NFP forms gentle, generous husbands, and selfless, patient wives. It can become a school of virtuous and holy love.

Those who confine sexual intimacy to the infertile times of the month are not engaging in contraceptive practices. They do not attempt to make a potentially fertile act infertile. They sacrificially abstain during the fertile time precisely because they respect fertility; they do not want to violate it; they do not want to treat the gift of fertility as a burden.

In some relatively rare instances, Natural Family Planning is used by couples with a contraceptive mentality. Too often couples can choose to abstain from fertility by default, or out of fear of the consequences of new life. I encourage all couples who use Natural Family Planning to be very open with each other concerning the reasons they think it right to limit their family size, to take their thoughts to God, and to pray for his guidance. Do we let fear, anxiety, or worry determine

the size of our families? Do we entrust ourselves to the Lord, whose generosity provides for all of our needs?

^Is it just me or are there some serious mental gymnastics going on here? So NFP isn't really contraception because there is still a good chance you could get pregnant? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of trying NOT to get pregnant? Then, he goes onto point out you can use NFP to try to GET pregnant. You can pray to sky daddy and all about your concerns, but the Lincoln Diocese encourages you to ignore all your instincts and just get knocked up!

I would like to address in a special way Catholic physicians, pharmacists and other healthcare professionals. The noble aim of your profession is to aid men and women as they live according to God’s perfect plan. Bishop Flavin wrote that, as professionals, “you are in a position to be God’s instruments in manifesting his truth, and his love.â€6

No Catholic healthcare provider, in good conscience, should engage in the practice of medicine by undermining the gift of fertility. There is no legitimate medical reason to aid in the acts of contraception or sterilization. No Catholic physician can honestly argue otherwise.

Healthcare is the art of healing. Contraception and sterilization may never be considered healthcare. Contraception and sterilization denigrate and degrade the body’s very purpose. Fertility is an ordinary function of health and human flourishing; and an extraordinary participation in God’s creative love. Contraception and sterilization stifle the natural and the supernatural processes of marriage, and cause grave harm. They treat fertility as though it were a terrible inconvenience, or even a physical defect that needs to be treated.

^Healthcare workers: Ignore your employers and your contracts and deny women what they are legally entitled to have!

Contraception is generally regarded by the medical community as the ordinary standard of care for women. The Church’s teachings are often regarded as being opposed to the health and well-­â€being of women. But apart from the moral and spiritual dangers of contraception, there are also grave physical risks to the use of most chemical contraceptives. Current medical literature overwhelmingly confirms that contraception puts women at risk for serious health problems, which doctors should consider very carefully.

^A-hole is trying to undermind all evidence of the benefits contraception may have. Bishop Conley please go into more detail of what serious health problems can occur - then we can talk about the potential dangers of pregnancy, childbirth and child rearing both physicall and emotionally on women.

Some women have health conditions that are better endured when treated by hormonal contraceptives. But the effects of contraception often mask the underlying conditions that endanger women’s health. Today, there are safe, natural means of correcting hormonal imbalances, and solving the conditions that are often treated by contraception.

^Tell me more about these safe, natural means of correcting hormonal imbalances! :o Oh wait, you don't.

Tragically, a majority of people in our culture and even in our Church, have used contraception. Much of the responsibility for that lies in the fact that too few have ever been exposed to clear and consistent teaching on the subject. But the natural consequences of our culture’s contraceptive mentality are clear. Mother Teresa reflected that “once living love is destroyed by contraception, abortion follows very easily.†She was right. Cultural attitudes that reject the gift of life lead very easily to social acceptance for abortion, for no-­â€fault divorce, and for fatherless families. For fifty years, America has accepted the use of contraception, and the consequences have been dire.

^I've NEVER heard of the RCC's stand on contraception! That is news to me :roll: All those no-fault divorces and fatherless families are all women's fault for using birth control!

If you have used or prescribed contraception, dear brothers and sisters, the merciful love of God awaits. Healing is possible—in the sacrament of penance. If you have used or supported contraception, I pray that you will stop, and that you will avail yourself of God’s tender mercy by making a good heartfelt confession.

Yeah I'm going to get on that one right now. (btw...I imagine this paragraph being read by the Church Lady from SNL....REPENT! :twisted: )

Today, openness to children is rarely celebrated, rarely understood, and rarely supported. To many, the Church’s teachings on life seem oppressive or old-­â€fashioned. Many believe that the Church asks too great a sacrifice.

^You wouldn't know by all those TLC shows devoted to mega families or from all the states removing women's right to choice!

But sacrifice is the language of love. And in sacrifice, we speak the language of God himself. I am calling you, dear brothers and sisters, to encounter Christ in your love for one another. I am calling you to rich and abundant family life. I am calling you to rejoice in the love, and the sacrifice, for which you were made. I am calling your family to share in the creative, active love of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I pray that in true sacrifice, each of you will know perfect joy.

Through the intercession of Our Lady of the Annunciation, the Holy Family, and in the love of Jesus Christ, James Conley.

^Please listen to me, Yours Truly as a white, elderly and celibate male.

[mockingbird]

How did I know this was going to be from Lincoln? LOL

ETA: I can't stop laughing at your locust description.

[louisa05]

Ugh...this is why even though my husband is about to be unemployed and we should be flexible, we have the diocesean boundaries firmly in mind as he looks for a new job. We will not live there. Fortunately, it is pretty simple to know how to avoid it--we cannot cross the Platte. That is how the boundaries are set between Lincoln & Omaha.

This mindset that you can determine someone's choices in the matter of having children based on the number they have is so ridiculous. My very short lived teaching assistant for religious ed informed me that one student's family was just so much better than the other kids' families because she is the oldest of eight children and "you know there is no contracepting there". I bit my tongue and did not say that we don't know that the one who as in only child has parents using contraception, but perhaps they just did not conceive easily. It is so ridiculous. Fortunately, that woman decided that teaching middle schoolers is not for her in a mere three weeks and I no longer have to deal with her.

[Georgiana]

Catholic ProTip: If a priest calls upon the legacy of, quotes, or even mentions JPII, there's a 99% chance what he's saying is total bullshit.

JPII was a beloved by many but highly conservative and in some ways nearly medieval Pope. I'll spare you the essay. Suffice to say that his legacy is often used to justify highly conservative and sometimes actually medieval ideas. You know, because it's often hard to use actual logic to do so.

[Luvmyskinnyjeanz]

Since we have been living in sin for 17 yrs and have 2 kids ( although I will only admit they're mine when they are behaving, otherwise they're his and I don't know any of them haha) wonder if I can use birth control? Hang on we're not catholic so ' FUCK YOU BISHOP YOU CAN SUCK MY DICK'

Birth control buddies for Eva...

[Arete]

Someone needs to tell the bishop that the contraceptive ship for American Catholics has already sailed and circumnavigated the globe.

Too late. They like it. They REALLY like it.

[DGayle]

How is it a loving and good thing to have kids when you can't afford to feed them? No, singing another kid up for foods stamps doesn't count as affording to feed them. I'm appalled that there are people who think that's a perfectly fine way to live because "poor people should get to have kids too." If you can't afford to support them, it's cruel to bring them into poverty on purpose just for the warm-fuzzies of thinking God'a happy with you. The loving thing is to focus on the kids you have, or forgo them. Some of the biggest big-hearted people I know opted not to have kids, despite a desperate want, because they were worried about family medical issues or mental illness passing down, and they didn't want a child to have to live with the challenges just so they could become parents. Some of the people I know who most want kids are not having them because they want to get their situations stable before bringing kids into it. One of them announced yesterday that she knows her biological clock is about to run out, but that not having kids she couldn't afford was the right thing for the kids that didn't have to grow up in poverty.

I want one of those dumbfucks who say kids equal love to explain how the people I mentioned above aren't loving when it seems to me that sacrifice for the sake of not inflicting suffering is one of the most loving things someone can do.

This doesn't even touch on the people who are infertile, or who can't for reasons like being a nun. Why isn't that bishop encouraging nuns to get pregnant with left-over IVF embryos since every cell is sacred, and that way they can guarantee kids will be raised literally inside the church?

[rezski44]

Someone needs to tell the bishop that the contraceptive ship for American Catholics has already sailed and circumnavigated the globe.

Look around in any Catholic mass and you will see very few families with more than 2 kids. nuff said...

[Peas n carrots]

The letter from Bishop Flavin to the Lincoln Diocese in 1991 was a fun read too. He came down harder on the Catholic healthcare workers who dispensed BC. The tone is very different...I feel like the latest letter almost has an Evangelical Christian tone to it rather than conservative Catholic.

In Obedience to Christ: A Pastoral Letter To Catholic Couples and Physicians on the Issue of Contraception

As a bishop of the Catholic Church and as a successor to the Apostles, my first duty is to teach "the Catholic faith that comes to us from the Apostles." As bishop of the diocese of Lincoln, my responsibility to you and to God is, in the words of St. Paul to Timothy, "To preach the word, to stay with this task whether convenient or inconvenient; correcting, reproving, appealing; constantly teaching and never losing patience" (2 Tim. 4:2).

Today we live in what could be accurately called "a contraceptive culture." The use of contraception is widely practiced. Even some Catholic couples use this method to prevent conception and some Catholic physicians do not hesitate to recommend the use of this means of birth control and even to prescribe contraceptives. That I may not fail in my duty to God and to you, I am compelled to write this pastoral letter to you, the Catholic couples and Catholic physicians of the diocese of Lincoln, and to remind you that birth prevention by any artificial means is gravely contrary to the teaching of God and His Church, of which you are members.

To have certitude of faith in regard to use of marriage, and indeed in regard to all teachings of the Catholic Church, we must understand the nature of the Church. Our Blessed Lord, the Incarnate Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, came to earth almost twenty centuries ago not only to redeem us by His passion, death and resurrection, but also to teach us how we must live our lives in order to spend eternity with Him in heaven.

Before He ascended into Heaven, he founded His Church as the means through which he would remain with us until the end of time, and through which He would continue to teach and guide and sanctify mankind until the end of the world. He chose Peter as the visible head of His Church. To Peter He said, "You are 'Rock' and on this rock I will build My Church" (Mt. 16:18). To Peter He, the Good Shepherd, entrusted His flock: "Feed My sheep" (Jn. 21:17). To Peter and the other Apostles He gave the mandate: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations... and teach them to observe all the commands I gave you. And know that I am with you always to the end of time" (Mt. 28:8-20).

Christ, Who cannot be deceived and cannot deceive us because He is God, is still in the world today as He promised, teaching us through His Church what we must believe and how we must live; and the voice of His Church is the successor of Peter, now Pope John Paul II. This is our Catholic faith: We believe that when Pope John Paul II teaches in matters of faith and morals, the Church teaches; and when the Church teaches, Christ the God-man teaches.

Therefore, we who have been blessed by God with the gift of the Catholic faith can have no doubt about the immorality of contraception. The Catholic Church clearly teaches that the use of contraception in all its forms, including direct sterilization, is gravely immoral, is intrinsically evil, is contrary to the law of nature and nature's God. This is and always has been the uninterrupted teaching of the Catholic Church from the beginning.

The ban on contraception is not a disciplinary law of the Church, like abstinence of Friday, which the Church can enact and which the Church can dispense for good reasons. Rather, it is a divine law which the Church cannot change any more than it can change the law of God forbidding murder. Contraception is wrong, not because the Church says it is wrong (it was wrong before Christ established the Church); it is wrong because God Himself, through the revelation of His Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, has declared it to be wrong. Because contraception is intrinsically evil, it may never be practiced for any reason, no matter how good and urgent. A good end never justifies the use of an evil means.

Catholic physicians and others who prescribe contraceptives or recommend their use are cooperators with those who use them. Such cooperation is gravely sinful. The same is true for physicians who advise contraceptive sterilization, or perform this procedure or refer a person to another physician for this purpose. In doing so they, too, commit grave sin.

It should be obvious that Catholics who practice birth control and those who cooperate with them in their immoral actions may not receive Holy Communion without committing sacrilege. Only the worthy reception of the Sacrament of Penance, which requires genuine sorrow for sin and the sincere intention to discontinue the sinful practice, will bring God's forgiveness, restore grace to the soul and make one worthy to receive Our Lord in Holy Communion.

Four years ago, Pope John Paul II, in his address to the bishops of the United States gathered in Los Angeles, very pointedly declared: "It has also been noted that there is a tendency on the part of some Catholics to be selective in their adherence to the Church's moral teachings. It is sometimes claimed that dissent from the Magisterium is totally compatible with being a 'good Catholic' and poses no obstacle to the reception of the Sacraments. This is a grave error...."

While contraception is always immoral, there is a morally acceptable way by which married couples may space the births of their children. For good and sufficient reasons, spouses may regulate births by abstaining from the marital act during the wife's easily identified fertile periods. This practice is known as Natural Family Planning. Recent scientific research has so refined the methods of Natural Family Planning that today, couples may. space their children in ways that are altogether reliable, medically safe, and morally acceptable.

Across our diocese, eight Natural Family Planning centers for teaching our Catholic couples have been established; and plans are underway for establishing additional centers. Trained teachers staff each of these centers. Our diocesan newspaper, The Southern Nebraska Register, regularly carries a list of the NFP in our diocese together with telephone numbers and time schedules.

Dear Catholic spouses, there can be no true happiness in your lives unless God is very much a part of your marriage covenant. To expect to find happiness in sin is to look for good in evil. Sin is a bane to married life, as it is to all life. Like a cancer, it destroys everything that is good and joyful in your marriage relationship. On the other hand, to keep God in Your married life, to trust in His and love and to obey His laws in the use of the marriage privilege will merit His special graces for you during the difficult times in married life, will deepen your love for each other and will bring to you that inner peace of mind and heart which is the reward of a good conscience. You will find the desire and the strength to follow God's law through the frequent and worthy reception of Holy Communion, the regular reception of the Sacrament of Penance and daily prayer.

Dear Catholic physicians, by reason of your baptism and confirmation you are called by God to witness to the Catholic faith which you profess. As members of a noble profession, you are in a position to be God's instruments in manifesting His truth and His love. This you can do by dissuading your patients from the practice of sinful contraception and by introducing to them the moral methods of Natural Family Planning. Then you will be the object of God's promise: "The person who brings a sinner back from his way will save his soul from death and cancel a multitude of sins" (Jas. 5:20). Thus, you will contribute to the spiritual welfare of your patients; and, like the Divine Physician, you will care for the whole person, body and soul.

It is my fervent prayer that Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception, the patroness of the diocese of Lincoln, through Her powerful intercession obtain for all God's people in our diocese, especially our Catholic spouses and our Catholic physicians, the grace to accept all the doctrines which God teaches us through His Church and to live them. For it is only in obedience to the divine will that a human heart may experience the peace of union with God, both in this life and in eternity.

-- Glennon P. Flavin is bishop of the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska; Oct. 11, 1991

[VixenToast]

"Bloody Catholics, filling the bloody world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed."

"Harry, I want you to sell me a condom. In fact today I think I'll have a French tickler, for I AM a Protestant."

My cousin and I first watched this film together. And we dislike the catholic religion almost equally. It was our fave snark as Nebraskans.

I am from Omaha while she is from Lincoln and our Granny was quite the Catholic. My mom is 7 of 9, while my cousin's Grandma is #2. All but one are self-proclaimed "recovering Catholics" :) including one haight-ashbury hippie, one who had a kid out of wedlock, one a lesbian, many alcoholics. Needless to say, my family became disenchanted by Lincoln-style Catholicism.

This guy is a tool too. Meh. As a Nebraskan on the pill, I'm irritated. I have a 3 year old boy, and I don't need any more babies right now. Trust me, I want more. But to sit there and pontificate to me that since I'm using contraception I am incapable of loving? I love my boy to bits and pieces, but he is all I can't even afford. And even if I DO get pregnant, I think THAT is something that was meant to be. Jesus, Bishop Cuntly, my use of contraceptives doesn't make me want abortion parties. Go screw yourself, you backwards dogmatic pig.

Rant over. To end with, I asked my mom if she'd heard what the bishop wrote. She replied, "Lincoln is one of the strictest dioceses. But lemme guess, something about women?" Lol

[Hane]

I own a book titled "Why You Can Dissent and Still Be a Catholic." I bought it, of all places, at a Catholic retreat.

One section deals with Pope Paul VI and his conferences on the study of family planning in the Church. Some of the expert participants were married laypeople who used NFP. Several of them attested to the fact that NFP put a strain on their marriages, and these were super-duper devout Catholics. Paul had been leaning a bit toward approval of artificial contraception, but caved into pressure from the conservative hierarchy.

[PennySycamore]

Catholic ProTip: If a priest calls upon the legacy of, quotes, or even mentions JPII, there's a 99% chance what he's saying is total bullshit.

JPII was a beloved by many but highly conservative and in some ways nearly medieval Pope. I'll spare you the essay. Suffice to say that his legacy is often used to justify highly conservative and sometimes actually medieval ideas. You know, because it's often hard to use actual logic to do so.

Pope Benedict said that some of what JPII taught was actually heretical. If Pope Benny thought that JPII was bad doctrinally, then he must have been really bad.

[Peas n carrots]

I own a book titled "Why You Can Dissent and Still Be a Catholic." I bought it, of all places, at a Catholic retreat.

One section deals with Pope Paul VI and his conferences on the study of family planning in the Church. Some of the expert participants were married laypeople who used NFP. Several of them attested to the fact that NFP put a strain on their marriages, and these were super-duper devout Catholics. Paul had been leaning a bit toward approval of artificial contraception, but caved into pressure from the conservative hierarchy.

If NFP works for a couple, then they should go for it! I'm also all for women being familiar with their cycles...but bloody hell I could never predict mine at all. Sometimes it would be 40 days between cycles, and sometimes 25.

I do have a question...is pulling out considered a grave sin by the Catholic Church?

[RachelB]

I know that I, for one, am much more loving when I am not concerned that I am going to be forced to be responsible for the care and feeding of another human being for 18 years.

[DGayle]

I do have a question...is pulling out considered a grave sin by the Catholic Church?

Every sperm is sacred. Pulling out is a sin.

[Mama Mia]

How is it a loving and good thing to have kids when you can't afford to feed them? No, singing another kid up for foods stamps doesn't count as affording to feed them. I'm appalled that there are people who think that's a perfectly fine way to live because "poor people should get to have kids too." If you can't afford to support them, it's cruel to bring them into poverty on purpose just for the warm-fuzzies of thinking God'a happy with you. The loving thing is to focus on the kids you have, or forgo them. Some of the biggest big-hearted people I know opted not to have kids, despite a desperate want, because they were worried about family medical issues or mental illness passing down, and they didn't want a child to have to live with the challenges just so they could become parents. Some of the people I know who most want kids are not having them because they want to get their situations stable before bringing kids into it. One of them announced yesterday that she knows her biological clock is about to run out, but that not having kids she couldn't afford was the right thing for the kids that didn't have to grow up in poverty.

I want one of those dumbfucks who say kids equal love to explain how the people I mentioned above aren't loving when it seems to me that sacrifice for the sake of not inflicting suffering is one of the most loving things someone can do.

This doesn't even touch on the people who are infertile, or who can't for reasons like being a nun. Why isn't that bishop encouraging nuns to get pregnant with left-over IVF embryos since every cell is sacred, and that way they can guarantee kids will be raised literally inside the church?

Um...yeah, poor people DO actually deserve to have children. It would be a very bleak world if only people who had obtained at least middle class status had children. A large number of jobs that are necessary to the smooth functioning of society do not pay middle class wages. Should all the people who work in these lower-paying but necessary jobs just remain childless? Maybe you could cut down on the possibility of these undesirables breeding by just sterilizing anyone who isn't on a professional level career path? Social supports like food stamps and subsidized housing are meant to bridge the gap so that people who aren't earning middle class wages can still have normal lives- and normal lives often involve having children. I'm more than happy to have my taxes go towards keeping kids fed for the mom who works in the school cafeteria, or the dad who works in the fields.

[Tdoc72]

My mom had c-sections in '72, '76, divorced then remarried and had 2 more in '82 & '83. After my last brother was born, the doctor told my parents that she shouldn't have anymore due to scarring (her scars are like this: #) and high risk of rupture. He recommended tubal ligation since NFP hadn't helped them w/13-month apart brothers. (She likes to joke that they had too much rhythm. Gross!) Not sure if they consulted a priest, but my uber-Catholic stepfather said that it was not a sin since it was medically necessary. My mom later said that she was glad because she would've either been dead or had a bazillion children.

My grandmother had 14 kids. My grandfather passed away when the youngest was 6 and only 2 were adults. She went to the Catholic Church for help because they were very poor & she couldn't feed them. The church could do little. She was angry for the rest of her life that the church wanted Catholics to have lots of kids but wouldn't help when she needed it. She was estranged from the church until just before her death.

[Peas n carrots]

The other part that gets my goat is that the previous Bishop of the diocese had repeatedly refused to take part in an audit of priest sex abuse. The only one in the US not to participate - http://journalstar.com/news/local/bishops-turn-away-group-critical-of-lincoln-diocese/article_d100190d-baf8-5858-ac97-227e3f11db06.html

To my very jaded POV, the message is to keep having those children for the RCC...we're going to need them for the pedophile priests we are potentially harboring!

[Marianne]

Every sperm is sacreeeeeeeeed.

Every sperm is greaeeeeeeeeet.

If a sperm is wasteeeeeeeeeeed,

God gets quite iraaaaaaaaaaaaaaate.

*chorus*

[Cannelle]

Yeah. Says the man with NO uterus, NO wife, and NO children. Not buying anything he's selling. Pass the birth control.

[louisa05]

The other part that gets my goat is that the previous Bishop of the diocese had repeatedly refused to take part in an audit of priest sex abuse. The only one in the US not to participate - http://journalstar.com/news/local/bishops-turn-away-group-critical-of-lincoln-diocese/article_d100190d-baf8-5858-ac97-227e3f11db06.html

To my very jaded POV, the message is to keep having those children for the RCC...we're going to need them for the pedophile priests we are potentially harboring!

He also had a victim hauled into court for criticizing that decision. He even filed a restraining order because the man was writing letters to the editor and letters to the Chancery. Having a restraining order violated the man's probation (from unrelated issue) and nearly landed him in jail and Bruskewitcz didn't give a damn that he caused that. As I understand it, Lincoln is still not doing annual audits. They also are not doing any training for awareness or prevention of their paid or volunteer staff that works with children and they are not conducting background checks on people working with children. Every other diocese in the United States is doing all of those things as a matter of routine. If you are a volunteer janitor in your parish, you have to do the training and the background check because you might be on the grounds when kids are there.

[Rebelwife]

He also had a victim hauled into court for criticizing that decision. He even filed a restraining order because the man was writing letters to the editor and letters to the Chancery. Having a restraining order violated the man's probation (from unrelated issue) and nearly landed him in jail and Bruskewitcz didn't give a damn that he caused that. As I understand it, Lincoln is still not doing annual audits. They also are not doing any training for awareness or prevention of their paid or volunteer staff that works with children and they are not conducting background checks on people working with children. Every other diocese in the United States is doing all of those things as a matter of routine. If you are a volunteer janitor in your parish, you have to do the training and the background check because you might be on the grounds when kids are there.

:pink-shock: To the bolded. I can't even imagine a diocese making that decision in this litigious day and age. Our mainline Protestant denomination is hard core about this. If you work in a lay leadership position you must take a class geared towards adults and spiritual abuse and if you volunteer with children in any capacity at all, not just leadership, you must take a class geared toward that. You also have to be recertified every 5 years. There is also a policy of two adults with any group of children (it's not hardcore, one adult can be alone in a classroom while the second adult takes a child to the bathroom, to their parents, etc., but there has to be at least two adults "in charge" of a group). Finally, any rooms or offices in our church where people might meet privately with a staff member have glass in the doors - even the Rector's office although he does have a seating area that is off to the side of the door for moderate privacy.

I am just amazed that they're willing to risk their bank accounts if nothing else.

[louisa05]

:pink-shock: To the bolded. I can't even imagine a diocese making that decision in this litigious day and age. Our mainline Protestant denomination is hard core about this. If you work in a lay leadership position you must take a class geared towards adults and spiritual abuse and if you volunteer with children in any capacity at all, not just leadership, you must take a class geared toward that. You also have to be recertified every 5 years. There is also a policy of two adults with any group of children (it's not hardcore, one adult can be alone in a classroom while the second adult takes a child to the bathroom, to their parents, etc., but there has to be at least two adults "in charge" of a group). Finally, any rooms or offices in our church where people might meet privately with a staff member have glass in the doors - even the Rector's office although he does have a seating area that is off to the side of the door for moderate privacy.

I am just amazed that they're willing to risk their bank accounts if nothing else.

Those are the rules for EVERY OTHER DIOCESE in the country as well. Certification requirements can differ. In my archdiocese (next door to Lincoln) paid staff has to be recertified every three years; volunteers every five years. Priests go to a two day seminar once a year which addresses the issue for them on a personal level as well as makes them go through their parish policy to make sure everything is up to date. There is also a curriculum used in Catholic schools and religious ed programs to equip kids to take care of themselves, to know how to report abuse, to recognize groomers, etc...It is very good and very age appropriate all the way through.

In my parish, for reasons we were not told, an assistant religious ed teacher recently lost his certification. If something happens and you lose it, you are out. We do have some teachers in our program teaching without a second adult--I am one of them. We are instructed to follow the rules used in schools in that case. I never close the door, for example.

I graduated from the largest Catholic high school in the Lincoln Diocese. I hate what it has become. My friends there have become insufferable and self-righteous. One of them told me that the life difficulties my husband and I have been going through are our own fault because we are "bad Catholics". On the other side of that, school was not like that when I was there. There was bad blood between the bishop and the school's superintendent. The school was a place where we were taught about love, human dignity, and social justice. Which is why the bishop (Flavin, mentioned in the letter) and the priest who was the superintendent were in conflict. The next bishop (Bruskewitz) got that superintendent pushed out and "loaned him out" as a priest to another diocese for almost his entire tenure. Clearly, Bruskewitz's replacement is not going to do anything to change the place. A friend of mine calls them "Shi'ite Catholics". The sex abuse victim I know called Bruskewitz "ayatollah" instead of "bishop". I call them "fundy Catholics" (which resulted in someone online explaining to me that Catholics and Fundamentalists have different theology... :angry-banghead: ). My former friends there bow down to everything the bishop says. Priests are treated like gods (much self-righteousness ensued at a dinner party when I revealed that my parish does not have an organized system to provide three meals a day to our priest--since he is a fully grown human capable of feeding himself--these churches actually have volunteers showing up to cook breakfast lest a priest lift a finger to care for himself and we are heretics for not doing that). One commutes to the Omaha area to work and won't move (she is single and easily could) because we aren't good enough Catholics. They are currently extremely unhappy with the pope as he is not Catholic enough for them. I know of a parish with a dress code for mass (skirts past the knee for women, no jeans, no shorts, no t-shirts or sleeveless shirts or dresses--I think only about 10% of my parish would not be kicked out of mass). When I converted, one of the people I know in Lincoln told me that "the great thing about being Catholic is you always have a priest to tell you what to think or do!" That is actually contrary to the teachings of the Church and to what we were taught in Catholic high school.

I could keep going. I'll shut up now.

[Rebelwife]

The bolded made me laugh out loud. I'm no longer Catholic but went last Sunday to mass with my parents at their extremely large parish. Granted, it's a beach community but my girls were shocked at the number of people there (probably a quarter of 700+ people) in shorts and flip flops- our church tends to be dressier although there's certainly no dress code. The 80 year old Irish old-school priest at their church calls the 5:30 masses the "coppertone masses" because the whole church smells like suntan lotion. :lol:

[louisa05]

The bolded made me laugh out loud. I'm no longer Catholic but went last Sunday to mass with my parents at their extremely large parish. Granted, it's a beach community but my girls were shocked at the number of people there (probably a quarter of 700+ people) in shorts and flip flops- our church tends to be dressier although there's certainly no dress code. The 80 year old Irish old-school priest at their church calls the 5:30 masses the "coppertone masses" because the whole church smells like suntan lotion. :lol:

I dress up for mass on Easter. That is it. Christmas is too cold. I told this woman that my husband and I nearly always wear jeans or shorts (depending on the season--and I might have on a casual skirt sometimes in the summer--if we go Saturday evening and have been or are on our way somewhere else). She actually pulled out the explanation I spent years hearing from fundagelicals--if you dress up for (fill in the blank) and don't dress up for church, you love whatever is in the blank more than God. I don't think so. The trouble is that if we go back to Jesus, he was traveling around the desert in a pack of dudes, walking everywhere, and having been raised by a working family in a small town on top of that--no one was dressed up for the Last Supper. Fishermen and carpenters and itinerant rabbis didn't own fancy clothes. And considering that this woman had to go buy skirts for church when this edict came down in her parish...she probably was not the only one. I don't think we should do anything to make it difficult or costly for people to be able to come to church. Of course, this woman also immediately posted her disappointment in Pope Francis's attire when he came out on the balcony. We need fancy clothes to go to mass and a pope with an ermine cape to be holy, in her head, anyway.