Nebraska Catholics - Anti-Contraception Letter from Bishop

[Peas n carrots]

Louisa were your friends involved with Call To Action?

I think we could almost start a thread talking about how f'd up the Lincoln Diocese is. I'll put up my story of being asked to contribute tens of thousands of dollars for a new church!

[louisa05]

Louisa were your friends involved with Call To Action?

I think we could almost start a thread talking about how f'd up the Lincoln Diocese is. I'll put up my story of being asked to contribute tens of thousands of dollars for a new church!

No. They are too lazy to be involved in anything that takes work. That is truly not a lie.

Three of them are priest groupies, though. Not kidding. Single women who spend all their time being fangirls of priests. It is so bizarre. They are all involved in their parishes "ministries" to cook meals for the priests. (Our heretic priest in the Omaha Archdiocese would tell us to help him with his new plans to address hunger in our county instead of feeding him--since he has food). They attend ordinations and post pictures like the rest of us post concert photos. Pictures with the newly ordained are the best and all the other priest fangirls express jealousy if they didn't get one.

I think they would be a fascinating study for psychology. Sometimes, I sense that they are afraid of dealing with the messiness of relationships with available men, so crushing on priests seems safe. And in that diocese, priests are elevated so far above the people that there is some status in it for them if they can get in the inner circle.

[docmom]

I've been watching "Call the Midwife" on Netflix recently and just rewatched the episode where the desperate mother of 8 who's pregnant with number 9 nearly kills herself trying to abort. She's begging for contraception but as it wasn't yet available through the NHS and they couldn't afford it, she resorted to a back alley abortion. I know this is fiction, but it's based on historical reality. I remember talking to my grandmother (widowed with 5 children, youngest was 6 mos when her husband died) who became pregnant with her youngest while her husband was desperately ill. She managed, but told me that she herself had come close to having to make the same decision and didn't only because she realized that if she died her children would have no-one. She let us know how lucky we were to be able to control our family size.

Contraception saves women's lives, it betters the lives of the children they have and it prevents abortion by preventing unwanted pregnancies. You'd think that a "pro-life" organization would be all over it!

[louisa05]

I've been watching "Call the Midwife" on Netflix recently and just rewatched the episode where the desperate mother of 8 who's pregnant with number 9 nearly kills herself trying to abort. She's begging for contraception but as it wasn't yet available through the NHS and they couldn't afford it, she resorted to a back alley abortion. I know this is fiction, but it's based on historical reality. I remember talking to my grandmother (widowed with 5 children, youngest was 6 mos when her husband died) who became pregnant with her youngest while her husband was desperately ill. She managed, but told me that she herself had come close to having to make the same decision and didn't only because she realized that if she died her children would have no-one. She let us know how lucky we were to be able to control our family size.

Contraception saves women's lives, it betters the lives of the children they have and it prevents abortion by preventing unwanted pregnancies. You'd think that a "pro-life" organization would be all over it!

I think we may see, ever so slowly granted, a change in this matter within the Church in the next 20-30 years. If not sooner. It was not a cut and dried decision to ban contraception when Paul VI did it, as has already been noted in the thread. And having a Pope from Latin America where poverty is a lot more visible and widespread than in Western Europe is likely to put a different spin on the discussion when the synod on marriage and families meets in the fall. I think the bishops outside the West are much more aware that people are not using contraception out of selfishness but for precisely the opposite reason. In Lincoln, Nebraska, it is pretty damn easy to look around from your cold, marble Cathedral on Sheridan Boulevard surrounded by rather stately large old homes occupied by upper middle class people and think "they aren't having 14 children per couple because they are selfish!". Believe me, I went to the Cathedral school for 7th and 8th grade. This bishop has to stray far from his seat to see any poverty. It is not so easy to think that way, as the current Pope well knows, in the poorest streets of Latin America. And those bishops are gradually getting a bigger voice in the Church. I don't think that we will see the synod making an announcement all at once that we can all get a pill pack with no questions asked by the church. But I think that for the first time since Paul VI, it is going to be discussed frankly and honestly. And that is the necessary beginning.

The first principal I worked for in a Catholic school (or as I like to refer to him "the competent one") said for years that after JP II, we'd end up with a Latin American pope sooner rather than later and once we did, everyone had better hold on because there would be changes.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Interesting, Docmom. My grandmother had 6 kids and was pregnant with the 7th when my grandfather, a Methodist minister, was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. A close family friend who was a physician gave her a D & C in his office. This happened in the 40's. Grandfather died and the widow's pension was so tiny the oldest son had to quit high school to work full time. When the 6th child was old enough to go to school Grandmother went to work full time as well. I know she never regretted her abortion, nor did her children.

[O Latin]

The bolded made me laugh out loud. I'm no longer Catholic but went last Sunday to mass with my parents at their extremely large parish. Granted, it's a beach community but my girls were shocked at the number of people there (probably a quarter of 700+ people) in shorts and flip flops- our church tends to be dressier although there's certainly no dress code. The 80 year old Irish old-school priest at their church calls the 5:30 masses the "coppertone masses" because the whole church smells like suntan lotion. :lol:

I have one friend who is Catholic and one who is ex-Catholic and they were both appalled to hear that most people at my Methodist church wear jeans to the service, including *gasp* members of the choir (who wear ankle-length robes that cover 99% of whatever we're wearing anyway). Yet most of the people I see coming and going from the Catholic church down the street are also wearing jeans. :lol:

[louisa05]

I have one friend who is Catholic and one who is ex-Catholic and they were both appalled to hear that most people at my Methodist church wear jeans to the service, including *gasp* members of the choir (who wear ankle-length robes that cover 99% of whatever we're wearing anyway). Yet most of the people I see coming and going from the Catholic church down the street are also wearing jeans. :lol:

That's weird. Even Lincoln was that casual 25 years ago.

I will say that our associate pastor had a valid point last summer when he suggested that if you just did yard work in 90 degree weather in the clothes you are wearing to mass, perhaps you should have considered changing. My husband and I do tend to try to wear nice jeans and change out of t-shirts with messages on them. He does not wear his "Hamm's Beer" t-shirt to mass. I have seen a lot of people at my parish who could stand to make a bit of an effort to, you know, wear something clean. And one Saturday evening, a couple next to us was decked out head to toe for a Creighton basketball game. The clothing didn't bother us, but I really kind of thought the wife could have put the "Go Jays!" and the bird logo temporary tattoos on her cheeks after mass instead of before. :lol:

[Joan of Snarc]

Louisa05 has some of the best stories on here. I always enjoy hearing about the fucked-up fundie school she taught at, and now she's got some friends that are priest fangirls/groupies!

:lol:

Atheist-heathen me had no idea such a thing could even exist! Women volunteering to make three meals a day for priests so they don't have to lift a finger?

:pink-shock:

I do enjoy your stories, Louisa05, although I know some of them are painful memories, they are always interesting and relevant to the topics on here.

8-)

[O Latin]

That's weird. Even Lincoln was that casual 25 years ago.

Yes, I think their issue is more that ex-Catholic friend thinks I, and therefore my entire denomination by extension, don't take our religion seriously enough and the fact that we wear jeans to church is an example of this. Currently Catholic friend just likes to make fun of Protestants. I have seen what he wears to mass and it's along the lines of khakis and a polo, which, in my opinion, is only a fraction of a step more dressed up than jeans and a nice blouse anyway.

[Peas n carrots]

I think it depends on the church too. I went to a few services at St Peter (going on 10 years ago) and it was fairly casual. But also, a lot can change in 10 years.

It's interesting learning about the f'd up ins and outs of Lincoln Diocese. My family was never too involved, and the holy rollers we knew we thought they were weird.

[louisa05]

I think it depends on the church too. I went to a few services at St Peter (going on 10 years ago) and it was fairly casual. But also, a lot can change in 10 years.

It's interesting learning about the f'd up ins and outs of Lincoln Diocese. My family was never too involved, and the holy rollers we knew we thought they were weird.

I've been to St John's in the last five years and it was pretty casual. The Cathedral was not. The dress code was at St Theresa's. Don't know if it is still in effect as that priest has since moved on to another parish (or rather, "monsignor" as the diocese has made sure every single priest with over 20 yrs has that title now...I assume they are pissed as hell that Pope Francis has put an indefinite moratorium on granting that title as part of his quest to stop clericalism). I'm not sure how strictly enforced it is. I went to mass there five years ago wearing pants and got the side eye but was allowed to remain. I was, however, nearly refused communion because I held up my hands to receive it and they only give it on the tongue. The deacon stared at me like I was an alien for like ten seconds before giving it to me.

Another issue that upsets them is that most churches in the U.S. routinely use extraordinary ministers (lay people for those not familiar with Catholic terms) to give out communion. Lincoln refuses to allow that and only priests and deacons may do it. The last time I was at a mass there at a medium sized parish, it took four and half very long songs to get through communion due to only three people giving it and in most parishes there, people never get the option of receiving wine as it is simply not practical when there are only a few people available to distribute bread as it is. One high school friend told me how appalled she was by extraordinary ministers at her mother's parish in Omaha because not only were they lay people, half of them were women. This woman refused to receive communion in the hospital in Lincoln because a lay person brought it. She called her priest and demanded he or a deacon bring it. It is a Catholic hospital and lay people routinely bring communion to patients. But her priest told her she did the right thing to call them, so I wonder if there are issues between the hospital and some priests over that.

[Peas n carrots]

My mother had a stillborn baby, and wanted to do some kind of funeral mass. The monsignor at our parish flat out refused as the baby was not baptized and he had the nerve to give her the whole "baby is in limbo" mumbo jumbo. That made her feel great that her priest said her baby wasn't in heaven!

Sometime I'll have to have my mom send me her copy of the Southeast Nebraska Register, which is a lovely monthly publication put out by the diocese. My favorites are the movie revues...I swear the Church Lady reviews all the movies!

I'm surprised Abigail hasn't considered moving to Lincoln. Sounds like she would love the diocese!

[Marianne]

Pope Benedict said that some of what JPII taught was actually heretical. If Pope Benny thought that JPII was bad doctrinally, then he must have been really bad.

I'm atheist, but I loved Pope benedict. What does he say about JPII who was heretical ?

[SpeshulTaterTot]

I was at the pharmacy the other day picking up my birth control pills, and when I looked up, I saw my priest standing at the next counter. Oops. He said something about seeing me Saturday, which is confession day at my church, but he laughed when he said that. I haven't been to confession since I was 16, so...

As for dressing up for Mass, I never did that. Maybe for Easter when I feel like it and the weather is ok, but other than that, it's just my regular clothes. When I was in the States as an exchange student, my first host family was Methodist and shocked when I wanted to go to church in jeans. I had to buy a skirt just for church. They were super conservative, though.

[Sumeri]

Okay, quick question: the Lincoln diocese is NOT the Omaha diocese, am I right? I have been seriously considering an Omaha Catholic school for our daughter depending on what neighborhood we wind up in, but now I am afraid.

[Rebelwife]

Okay, quick question: the Lincoln diocese is NOT the Omaha diocese, am I right? I have been seriously considering an Omaha Catholic school for our daughter depending on what neighborhood we wind up in, but now I am afraid.

Obviously you'd want to check (should be on the schools website I would think) but the Archdiocese of Omaha is separate from the Diocese of Lincoln.

[louisa05]

Obviously you'd want to check (should be on the schools website I would think) but the Archdiocese of Omaha is separate from the Diocese of Lincoln.

There are three dioceses in Nebraska. The Diocese of Lincoln, The Archdiocese of Omaha, and The Diocese of Grand Island. The Platte River provides boundaries for one side of each. The entire Omaha metro area and most of the northeast part of the state is the Archdiocese of Omaha.

Omaha is a different world than Lincoln. Most of the Catholic high schools in Omaha are excellent. I taught in the worst high school in the Archdiocese but it is not in the city. I am pretty familiar with the schools, so PM me if you have questions.

[Peas n carrots]

I know plenty of people who live in Lincoln but go to Omaha churches. My BFF lives in Lincoln, but married in Omaha because the Archdiocese is far more sane.

I think BFF was also looking for the gayest priest she could find...and my was the one she found FABULOUS. My DH wore his dress kilt to the wedding, and Father Fabulous asked DH to twirl around a few times...those being FF's actual words.

[louisa05]

I know plenty of people who live in Lincoln but go to Omaha churches. My BFF lives in Lincoln, but married in Omaha because the Archdiocese is far more sane.

I think BFF was also looking for the gayest priest she could find...and my was the one she found FABULOUS. My DH wore his dress kilt to the wedding, and Father Fabulous asked DH to twirl around a few times...those being FF's actual words.

You must tell me who it was if you know his name. PM please! I have a few candidates in my head. One did a retreat for our school staff and talked about designer shoes for awhile.

Omaha is much different than Lincoln. It is sane. And our new Archbishop is pleasant and welcoming. I heard him on the radio the other day talking about modesty and why we are all responsible for our own thoughts and our own responses to other people--that it is a cheap out, basically, to blame them.

We won't talk about his predecessor. Let's just say that he is lucky he raised his $300,000+ for his retirement home before Pope Francis, because it may not have gone over well after. (That is a pricey home, particularly for one person, in Omaha).

[VixenToast]

Okay, quick question: the Lincoln diocese is NOT the Omaha diocese, am I right? I have been seriously considering an Omaha Catholic school for our daughter depending on what neighborhood we wind up in, but now I am afraid.

Naw man, us Omahan heretics aren't that fucking crazy (as far as I know lol). I haven't heard any crazy stories except from Lincoln.

Ermmm, I think St Cecilia's, Holy Name, (and I think St Thomas More as well) All have elementary. I'm sure there is more lol. I know Marian is for high school girls, who for prom and such link up with Creighton Prep (stupid catholic boys with nasty pimples and intelligent brains)

I ought to ask my gay photog friend. He always has awesome catholic stories after taking school pics at the parochial schools. Like the nuns who won't look at him, or the mysteriously ominous black cat, tool priests who are rude.

Meh, I took pics at some Lincoln Vietnamese convent preschool. Now THOSE nuns were flippin awesome! It must be the white people who are the pious freaks. Those Sisters were the definition of Christian hospitality (they fed me traditional Vietnamese noodle soup AND mashed banana cake pudding thing... Schools generally are pricks that don't understand that photogs need a lunch break during a 10 hr day, let alone being kind enough to feed them)

[louisa05]

Naw man, us Omahan heretics aren't that fucking crazy (as far as I know lol). I haven't heard any crazy stories except from Lincoln.

Ermmm, I think St Cecilia's, Holy Name, (and I think St Thomas More as well) All have elementary. I'm sure there is more lol. I know Marian is for high school girls, who for prom and such link up with Creighton Prep (stupid catholic boys with nasty pimples and intelligent brains)

I ought to ask my gay photog friend. He always has awesome catholic stories after taking school pics at the parochial schools. Like the nuns who won't look at him, or the mysteriously ominous black cat, tool priests who are rude.

Meh, I took pics at some Lincoln Vietnamese convent preschool. Now THOSE nuns were flippin awesome! It must be the white people who are the pious freaks. Those Sisters were the definition of Christian hospitality (they fed me traditional Vietnamese noodle soup AND mashed banana cake pudding thing... Schools generally are pricks that don't understand that photogs need a lunch break during a 10 hr day, let alone being kind enough to feed them)

The funny thing about Lincoln is that for all the yammering about piety and fan girling the priests and never touching a consecrated host...their masses, in my experience, are noisy, a bit chaotic, and not nearly as "pious" (I hate that word) as in Omaha parishes. Our priests do not have to be careful of tripping over parishioners who are running for the exit during the processionals, for example. And that seems to happen in every Lincoln parish I've been to mass at.

Sumeri--I should be clear about my knowledge of the schools--teachers in the Metro area had conferences and workshops together and the whole Archdiocese adheres to the same curriculum standards. I can tell you a lot of first hand info about the Omaha schools from working in a Metro Area Catholic school.

[Peas n carrots]

You must tell me who it was if you know his name. PM please! I have a few candidates in my head. One did a retreat for our school staff and talked about designer shoes for awhile.

Omaha is much different than Lincoln. It is sane. And our new Archbishop is pleasant and welcoming. I heard him on the radio the other day talking about modesty and why we are all responsible for our own thoughts and our own responses to other people--that it is a cheap out, basically, to blame them.

We won't talk about his predecessor. Let's just say that he is lucky he raised his $300,000+ for his retirement home before Pope Francis, because it may not have gone over well after. (That is a pricey home, particularly for one person, in Omaha).

Father Fabulous was at a church in west Omaha named after a Czech saint ;) I checked the website and he doesn't seem to be there anymore...my friend was married there 5 years ago, so he's likely moved on. I'll have to ask her his name.

[Chiara607]

My people!

I moved to Lincoln after graduating from university, and one of the hardest parts about the move was going from a community where I was supported and actually allowed to participate to...here. I miss being a Eucharistic minister so much, and I think that's a large part of why I've stopped attending Mass on a regular basis.

("Home Church," for the record: Blessed Sacrament.)

Also, thoughts on Bruskewitz's recent comments on yoga being un-Catholic or something equally ridiculous?