Western Conservatory: The Botkins get a facelift

[Marian the Librarian]

^ Olive Plant, you are awesome. Just read your comment and her reply. So:

1. He was unaware he was on the advisory board, until today

2. He is not a homeschooling father of 5

3. He is not into patriarchy

4. After today he will no longer be featured on that website. . . . .

This Botkin niece has very politely said 'they are full of shit'

Un-fucking-believable. So Geoff was faking his brother's membership on Western Conservatory's "advisory board" without said brother's knowledge or consent.

Another lying liar who lies. This, folks, is the same man who just got himself and Scotty Brown into a heap of trouble by labeling Christian rappers "disobedient cowards." Irony, much??

[YPestis]

I think they are a talented family, despite their inflated titles and pretensions. And yet, I often wonder how a family who so eschew worldly education would embrace so many titles and intellectual trappings? I guess that's a common fundie problem. They want to separate themselves from the secular, heathen world, as if they are superior to the rest of us. And yet, when it comes to showing themselves off to other fundies, they bring out the certificates and inflated titles as if to prove that they are worthy of the same respect real academic degrees and worldly achievements bring.

The family also gives the appearance of being comfortably off....is business that good? I'm always surprised how much money is in the fundie book circuit.

I haven't paid much attention to the Botkins lately, it seems they popped out two more grandchildren since the last time I checked in. I guess Geoffrey Botkins is finally getting his multi-generational family. Too bad his daughters will probably never have their own children. I just think it's so sad that these beautiful, talented girls will either have set aside their talent to be mothers or continue on in their present state, never having families of their own. Only fundies would forced girls to choose between utilizing their talents or having a family. The rest of society have figured out a way to allow women to do both.....

[ladyamylynn]

Right I'm imagining designers of tithe bridges instead of toll bridges...

Honestly, I have no idea whatsoever what this means. Does he like reading those topics on Wikipedia?

"Engineer..." what a crock of shit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation ... ngineering

STFU, child.

[Iokaste]

I haven't read much about the Botkins, the daddy-worshipping by adult women and overly sweetness does nothing good for my faith in humanity, so wasn't aware they had founded a "condervartory" and after reading the "About Western Conservatory" I'm still not sure what they do there, but this was just too funny:

"Western Conservatory of the Arts and Sciences was founded early in the 21st Century", seriously?!

Not just "we founded this as a family" or "W.C. was set up a few years ago"? I will give them this: they all hold advanced degrees in pompousness :D

[salex]

Jesus Christ. Who is writing the blips on each family member? They are trying so hard to sound intelligent, that each of the paragraphs are just nonsensical walls of texts.

That would be Elizabeth --"chief writer".

[salex]

He probably has thought of a cool lego project. Groundbreaking actually.

And why Christian engineers specifically?

Obviously, Christian Engineers would be incredibly helpful and more efficient.... for example, imagine how much more cost effective to have a Christian Civil Engineer. Instead of weeks with bulldozers and trucks and evil union labor, he would just have to say to the mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move.. They could be Matthew 17:20 Engineers, like the women are Titus 2 or Proverbs women.

I have an in-law who has spent the last 30 years exploring alternative energy, invention, agriculture, music, electronics, and alternative medicine. This translates to a man in his 50s who has a garden fence that is unfinished after 5 years, so no garden because of the deer and squirrels, is sure there is a conspiracy to keep us from having cheap energy, has downloaded thousands and thousands of songs from the internet, buys a lot of broken computer stuff to cobble together and spends more on supplements each month than he spends on his mortgage--no actual job, but his wife has a good income.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Isaac:

He’s been a successful filmmaker, animator, and political consultant at various times, but he’s currently serving in the Western Conservatory departments of Quality Control, Reality Check, Graphic Design, and Layout. He’s the producer of the “Navigating History: Egypt†worldview and history series, author of Outside Hollywood, and blogs at Outside-Hollywood.com. On the side, he’s a passionate student of invention and technology and and how they can be used to glorify God. He’s also on the volunteer fire-rescue squad.

While the idea of serving in the Department of Reality Check gave me pause, it was the " passionate student of invention and technology and and how they can be used to glorify God" that really got my mind spinning. So many avenues to explore, so many opportunities for snarking. I can just imagine him in his workshop, staring at some cobbled together contraption of metal and plastic and musing how this brand new invention could be used to glorify God: A weasel skinner that can illuminate your Bible at night! A hand-cranked food dehydrator that will give you food for sustenance on your pilgrimage to walk in Jesus' footsteps. A water purifier/baseball cap with Bible verses on the bill. Oh the mighty works that must pour out of his feverish brain.

[ThatSnark]

I asked a question and just got a reply: http://kbotkin.com/2013/11/30/psychopat ... mment-2589

So it sounds like he was unaware that he was on this "advisory board" and probably did not write the bio. I had a feeling!! From what I know of their family dynamics, it seemed really weird that he would actually be doing stuff with Western Conservatory.

So maybe they did mean progressive that way? Also, are all the board memebers unaware that they are board members? Also, the line about "alternative energy" makes me wonder if Noah, the supposed expert on alternative energy is trying to steal some idea of his "progressive" uncle.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks for clearing this up pronto! Silly Botkins-- but just the Geoff branch. The Gregory branch seems pretty awesome.

[slickcat79]

I haven't paid much attention to the Botkins lately, it seems they popped out two more grandchildren since the last time I checked in. I guess Geoffrey Botkins is finally getting his multi-generational family.

Did we know that Ben and Audri had a second baby? I think I missed that. And why no picture?

I remember when David's baby was born, because he was lecturing the masses about "raising men" with about 2 months experience having a son :roll:

[Jezebel]

I have an in-law who has spent the last 30 years exploring alternative energy, invention, agriculture, music, electronics, and alternative medicine. This translates to a man in his 50s who has a garden fence that is unfinished after 5 years, so no garden because of the deer and squirrels, is sure there is a conspiracy to keep us from having cheap energy, has downloaded thousands and thousands of songs from the internet, buys a lot of broken computer stuff to cobble together and spends more on supplements each month than he spends on his mortgage--no actual job, but his wife has a good income.

:lol:

I've known plenty of similarly unimpressive polymaths.

Hell, I could count myself in the ranks! I've explored alternative energy (nope, solar isn't cost-effective on my house, yet). I've used my inventive ingenuity to solve numerous problems of great importance (such as creating a supersized catbox that even my huge, brainless kitty who forgets to squat can't overshoot). Agriculture? I've read a bunch of books on urban farming and keeping backyard poultry, and I did grow tomatoes last summer (before the rats got them)! Music? I read a biography of Beethoven, am learning to play the ukulele, and follow Lady Gaga on Facebook. Electronics? I have a big pile of old stereo and computer equipment that needs to go to the recyclers or Goodwill, because I've bought new stuff after thoroughly researching my options. Alternative medicine? I made some major dietary changes to address health issues when I didn't like the conventional treatment options, and they worked!

We could play this game endlessly. I could go on about my contributions to the fine arts, fashion and jewelry design, animal welfare, nutrition, philanthropy, and business. After all, I'm good at drawing, I sewed a few garments this year and made a bunch of beaded earrings for a fundraiser. I volunteer with an animal rescue, and donate money to them and similar groups. And I've been successfully self-employed for over just 15 years, now.

We got into a discussion of narcissism toward the end of the third VF-is-dead thread, and this sort of thing is classic narcissistic self-inflation. My father, a classic narc, used to do it all the time, pretending at expertise in areas where he had no real training, much less genuine accomplishments.

I didn't finally identify my father's narcissism until about three years ago. He finally acted out in a way that was so terrible, I couldn't make excuses for his behavior anymore. Despite all his considerable charm, he fit all the criteria for NPD, and once I understood the disorder I felt free--he was the sick and crazy one, not me.

But once I recognized his narcissism, I started seeing it everywhere. The lack of empathy, the manipulativeness, the feelings of exemption, the grandiosity, the need for attention--I saw it in so many people. And where I've seen it most flagrantly is 1) in politics, and 2) among the fundies discussed here. If I pointed out NPD or narcissistic sociopathy every time I saw them here, that's pretty much all I'd end up talking about. It's that rampant among these fundie bloggers. And the Botkins are an outstanding example of how it can run in families.

[Olive Plant]

Un-fucking-believable. So Geoff was faking his brother's membership on Western Conservatory's "advisory board" without said brother's knowledge or consent.

Another lying liar who lies. This, folks, is the same man who just got himself and Scotty Brown into a heap of trouble by labeling Christian rappers "disobedient cowards." Irony, much??

"Disobedient coward" is just someone who isn't as into my viewpoints as I am. It has nothing to do with actual morality. (If you're Geoff) The whole thing makes me wonder if these patriarch types believe in "taking dominion" of silly things like facts and citations. Who cares what the truth is! Or who came up with an idea! Take dominion! Say whatever sounds best for the glory of ME!

[formergothardite]

Working at the Department of Reality Checks sounds rather fun.

[Hane]

I haven't read much about the Botkins, the daddy-worshipping by adult women and overly sweetness does nothing good for my faith in humanity, so wasn't aware they had founded a "condervartory" and after reading the "About Western Conservatory" I'm still not sure what they do there, but this was just too funny:

"Western Conservatory of the Arts and Sciences was founded early in the 21st Century", seriously?!

Not just "we founded this as a family" or "W.C. was set up a few years ago"? I will give them this: they all hold advanced degrees in pompousness :D

As I commented back in the Yuku days, I followed the URL only to discover that Western Conservatory is nothing but a web site for ecommerce! Oh, the humanity! Soylent Green is people!

[thoughtful]

As I commented back in the Yuku days, I followed the URL only to discover that Western Conservatory is nothing but a web site for ecommerce! Oh, the humanity! Soylent Green is people!

:lol:

I figured they had a small greenhouse on the west-facing side of their house.

[IceTwinkie]

Working at the Department of Reality Checks sounds rather fun.

I could do that job. I imagine that I would spend my day walking around doing variations of this,

0x-fkSYDtUY

[Marian the Librarian]

Un-fucking-believable. So Geoff was faking his brother's membership on Western Conservatory's "advisory board" without said brother's knowledge or consent.

Another lying liar who lies. This, folks, is the same man who just got himself and Scotty Brown into a heap of trouble by labeling Christian rappers "disobedient cowards." Irony, much??

Well, I've just checked Western Conservatory's website, and what do you know, the Board membership has had a facelift, too. Looks like Geoff's brother Gregory has been in touch:

ISAAC BOTKIN

Conservatory president Isaac Botkin is the eldest son of Geoffrey Botkin and has served most recently as a director of First Pacific Media. He is a popular lecturer at the San Antonio Christian Film Academy, having spent more than a decade as an acclaimed special effects supervisor and studio manager.

His first major graphics project was in 1995 with the US Naval Office of Undersea Warfare, where he worked in cooperation with scientists from the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory. While co-producing a number of documentaries, he served as an instructor in 2-D and 3-D animation and digital editing at Deerwood Studios. In 1999 he served in an advisory capacity at the Family Television Network of New Zealand, and for University-level media courses at Lifeway College, where he was involved in advanced training of photojournalists, high-end graphic design and live news production.

In 2000 he was a supervising animator at the largest television animation studio in New Zealand, helping to design and build one of the most advanced studios in the southern hemisphere. He then assisted in recruiting talented animators from Russia, Japan, France, Canada, Argentina, England, with whom he worked on an internationally televised children's program. It was in this position he met co-production colleagues in New Zealand's highly successful independent film industry.

In 2001 he served as the senior design executive for a conglomerate whose holdings included broadcast television, newspaper and internet companies. In this capacity he worked in a managerial capacity in literally every area of media and IT technology. Isaac's experience and reputation have allowed him to correspond as a colleague or peer with the leading technicians and artists in film. Isaac is the author of the book Outside Hollywood, which discusses the future of independent film industries.

DON HART

Advisor Don Hart is a devoted husband, father, attorney, and pastor. Don's efforts as a church leader and attorney are directed toward encouraging and promoting the return of the church and the Christian family to their biblical foundations. Don lives in Austin, Texas, where he and his wife D'Ann home educate their six children.

MATTHEW CLARK

Dr. Matthew T. Clark graduated from the University of Georgia in 1991 with a B.S. in Biochemistry. He then graduated from the Medical College of Georgia in 1995, where he was elected to the medical honor society, AOA. He then went on to serve as a medical officer and flight surgeon in the United States Navy, leaving the Navy in 2003 with the rank of Lieutenant Commander. While in the Navy, he completed an internship in Family Medicine in 1996 and a residency in Aerospace Medicine in 1999. He also earned his Master in Public Health degree from the Harvard School of Public Health in 1998. Dr. Clark moved to North Augusta in 2003 to complete pediatrics training at the Medical College of Georgia. He finished this training in 2006 and is Board Certified by the American Board of Pediatrics.

After completing his pediatric residency, Dr. Clark stayed at the Medical College of Georgia to complete a fellowship in pediatric and adult allergy, asthma and immunology. He finished this training in 2008 and is Board Certified with the American Board of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. He is a member of the American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology. He is the founder and owner of Covenant Family Allergy in North Augusta, SC. Matt, his wife Katherine, and their seven children, delight in the Lord’s mercy and goodness toward them and strive to live every moment “by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.†Matt is a church leader and teacher and a dominion man devoted to the work of reformation so badly needed in today’s family, church, civil government and private enterprise.

JAMES VERNIER

James H. Vernier, MD is a board certified anesthesiologist, licensed to practice medicine in 3 states, and has also spent time practicing in the rural mountain regions of Mexico on numerous short-term mission trips over the past two decades. Dr. Vernier has had a strong interest in the origins of the political and religious freedoms for which our forefathers sacrificed dearly, and the rapidity at which these freedoms are being eroded in our nation.

Now residing in middle Tennessee, Dr. Vernier, with his family, continues to explore and pursue the work to be done in rebuilding the foundation of law through introducing individuals and families to a right relationship with their Creator. This involves a recognition that God is the source of all law, and that obedience to His revealed will and its application in all areas of our culture, is the only solution to the problems that we face today. Areas to be addressed include family life, bioethics, media, film and music. Dr. Vernier and his wife, Gari, are the grateful parents of 6 home-educated children.

GEOFFREY BOTKIN

Geoffrey Botkin, veteran traveler, lecturer, filmmaker, and father of seven, serves as a senior consultant and board member for the conservatory. More about Geoffrey Botkin:

Geoffrey Botkin is a husband, father and grandfather who takes great delight in his family. He and his family work together to articulate misplaced truths and lessons about family dynamics and the strength of the family institution. Through the Western Conservatory of the Arts and Sciences he publishes materials primarily for leaders in the United States, Europe and Africa.

Works in progress include a documentary on the role families can play in the development of civil society

[Jezebel]

Well, I've just checked Western Conservatory's website, and what do you know, the Board membership has had a facelift, too. Looks like Geoff's brother Gregory has been in touch:

[...]

My god, Geoffrey Botkin is an appalling human being. And a lying liar who lies. Holy cow; he's got a lot of nerve and absolutely zero scruples, and it looks like he's infected his children with it, too.

This would all be hilarious, were it not for the fact that there are people out there who take anything Geoff Botkin or his daughters say seriously, and who can be fooled into thinking that Isaac Botkin is actually a somebody who merits such a long and detailed bio.

Unreal, man. Just fucking unreal.

[slickcat79]

He and his family work together to articulate misplaced truths and lessons about family dynamics and the strength of the family institution.

Uhh...like the "misplaced truth" that your brother is on your Board when he's actually not? :evil-eye:

[ThatSnark]

Uhh...like the "misplaced truth" that your brother is on your Board when he's actually not? :evil-eye:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Exactly! Katie notified him that the truth was not on this website, so they did indeed work together to correct the untruth, showing that their family dynamics are healthy. Way to spin it there, Geoff!

[Becoming_Me]

Isaac's bio is just...wow. Oh, the hyperbole! Imagine if Elizabeth ever decided to write a biography of someone in her family. If someone on FJ had to read and recap for the rest of us I am going on the record as putting my finger on my nose and saying "not it!"

[starfish]

Dr. Verner is Audri's dad, right? He needs to stick with medicine and lay off all this biblical foundation mumbo-jumbo. He sounds messed up.

I do like it that FJ called them out on their lies. We should probably monitor their site to ensure they don't make one of us a board member.

[danvillebelle]

Elizabeth the chief writer misspelled "tornadoes" on David's bio. :nenner:

ETA: sorry if someone already said that, I haven't read the whole thread and just went to read the flowery bios.

[Arete]

How has G. Botkin been able to avoid scrutiny until this last week's rapper comments?

The man is a wanker of the highest order. I know there is not a lot of doctrinal unity across Christian denominations, but almost any flavor of Christian from the most liberal to the most conservative would recognize his multigenerational faithfulness initiative as unbiblical and heretical. No, those words are not being thrown out for effect. You cannot read the Gospels (as divergent from each other as they can be), or the Epistles and get the idea that God allows man to control history through reproduction. You can't. I dare Botkin to give any New Testament scriptural references for plotting to take over the governments of the world (his descendent was to become the PM of New Zealand according to GB's plan). Nowhere in the teachings of Jesus or Paul can you pull out a doctrine that says a woman's salvation is based on her faithfulness to her husband or father. Everyone, man or woman, works out their own salvation with God. Yet here is the extremely creepy Botkin and his extremely creepy daughters putting out multimedia presentations peddling this poison.

What Botkin sells is nothing more that The White Man's Burden. That's it. You don't need to be a Biblical scholar or a braintrust or even a particularly devout Christian to recognize his Master Race bullshit. He didn't need to make his comments about rap music for people to recognize him as a megalomaniac racist. The relationship he encourages fathers and daughters to have is just not normal. It is vile and gross and I still can't reconcile why it does not skeeve more VF followers out. You can practically see and can definitely read the evil that oozes out of Botkin's pores, but it looks like he is going to slither away, shed some skin, and go back to devouring the church mice.

I need a bath.

[danvillebelle]

How has G. Botkin been able to avoid scrutiny until this last week's rapper comments?

The man is a wanker of the highest order. I know there is not a lot of doctrinal unity across Christian denominations, but almost any flavor of Christian from the most liberal to the most conservative would recognize his multigenerational faithfulness initiative as unbiblical and heretical. No, those words are not being thrown out for effect. You cannot read the Gospels (as divergent from each other as they can be), or the Epistles and get the idea that God allows man to control history through reproduction. You can't. I dare Botkin to give any New Testament scriptural references for plotting to take over the governments of the world (his descendent was to become the PM of New Zealand according to GB's plan). Nowhere in the teachings of Jesus or Paul can you pull out a doctrine that says a woman's salvation is based on her faithfulness to her husband or father. Everyone, man or woman, works out their own salvation with God. Yet here is the extremely creepy Botkin and his extremely creepy daughters putting out multimedia presentations peddling this poison.

What Botkin sells is nothing more that The White Man's Burden. That's it. You don't need to be a Biblical scholar or a braintrust or even a particularly devout Christian to recognize his Master Race bullshit. He didn't need to make his comments about rap music for people to recognize him as a megalomaniac racist. The relationship he encourages fathers and daughters to have is just not normal. It is vile and gross and I still can't reconcile why it does not skeeve more VF followers out. You can practically see and can definitely read the evil that oozes out of Botkin's pores, but it looks like he is going to slither away, shed some skin, and go back to devouring the church mice.

I need a bath.

Preach it, sister!

[Marian the Librarian]

How has G. Botkin been able to avoid scrutiny until this last week's rapper comments?

The man is a wanker of the highest order. I know there is not a lot of doctrinal unity across Christian denominations, but almost any flavor of Christian from the most liberal to the most conservative would recognize his multigenerational faithfulness initiative as unbiblical and heretical. No, those words are not being thrown out for effect. You cannot read the Gospels (as divergent from each other as they can be), or the Epistles and get the idea that God allows man to control history through reproduction. You can't. I dare Botkin to give any New Testament scriptural references for plotting to take over the governments of the world (his descendent was to become the PM of New Zealand according to GB's plan). Nowhere in the teachings of Jesus or Paul can you pull out a doctrine that says a woman's salvation is based on her faithfulness to her husband or father. Everyone, man or woman, works out their own salvation with God. Yet here is the extremely creepy Botkin and his extremely creepy daughters putting out multimedia presentations peddling this poison.

What Botkin sells is nothing more that The White Man's Burden. That's it. You don't need to be a Biblical scholar or a braintrust or even a particularly devout Christian to recognize his Master Race bullshit. He didn't need to make his comments about rap music for people to recognize him as a megalomaniac racist. The relationship he encourages fathers and daughters to have is just not normal. It is vile and gross and I still can't reconcile why it does not skeeve more VF followers out. You can practically see and can definitely read the evil that oozes out of Botkin's pores, but it looks like he is going to slither away, shed some skin, and go back to devouring the church mice.

I need a bath.

THANK you. The Botkins have skeeved me out ever since I discovered a copy of "Return of the Daughters." In a public library where I was working, no less. I think it's time for maximum exposure - in the "sunshine is the best disinfectant" sense.