women need advanced degrees in homemaking

[salex]

When I was a kid I used to like to look at my great grandfather's university yearbooks from 1910-1914. Each student had their photo, with their name and degree under it. Many of the women were listed as being "Household Science" majors, which I assumed was like a finishing school type degree. Back in those days to attend university you usually came from wealthy families, and I gathered that this degree course taught women about managing a household staff, event planning, etiquette and probably a little bit of cooking a sewing. However, I'm guessing this was more of a MRS course and the social side of university life was perhaps more important to them than their education.

However, there were a number - nowhere near as many as the HHS or Lit majors - who were science/math majors. And even in 1910 the university had some sports options for women, such as basketball and tennis. It seems that even back in the Edwardian era women of the upper class weren't quite as limited as fundies would like to believe.

Was this a land grant college? Those often had a special focus on ag and home ec as a way to improve life for people in general... (the county extension service "took the university to the people by taking best practices in ag and home making to rural areas.) This spawned clubs for men and women and the 4-H club (which, had the bloggers here been members as kids, would have offered all the courses they think they need, as well as many others so they could concentrate on things more advanced than sewing on a button in their mid 30s.)

Cornell's page rmc.library.cornell.edu/homeEc/masterlabel.html

says

Throughout the first half of the twentieth century, collegiate programs prepared thousands of women for public school teaching but many also had careers in the extension service, state and federal governments, industry, hospitals, restaurants and hotels.

So, back then, it was a way to launch into more than just homemaking. It appears it was later that they added the "how to dress" and "morality clauses" to the curriculum. .viu.ca/homeroom/content/topics/programs/Homecon.htm

Both sites describe early home ec as "progressive." which is interesting.

My grandmother got a degree in Chemistry around 1910. She married and had kids, but every woman born in my family since my grandmother went to college. Uber thanks to my great grandmother who pushed in this direction. Hooray for their "100 year plan" it has worked out well for the women in my family.

[August]

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm putting down homemaking or SAHM. I dislike how society tries to play up the difficulties of day to day living. Cooking, cleaning and childcare care can be chores. They can be monotonous and tiring. But then, work can as well. How about we appreciate the contribution to life that each spouse brings? The prattling about advanced homemaking degrees seems to just sugarcoat the reality that homemaking is underappreciated and tedious to most people and that when we force people to take up homemaking, it creates unhappy people. The more they play up homemaking, the less likely I'm to believe it will bring universal happiness to women.

SAHM is hard precisely because it is boring and monotonous. That's why these women are trying to claim it's rocket science. They're unhappy and bored and when they look at a woman who has choices in life they are jealous, so they try and build themselves up in comparison. It's like people who regret having children so they try and convince other people to have kids too. If you're secure and confident you don't need to mess with other people.

I'm still not sure what they think the homes of people without advanced homemaking degrees (which they don't have either) look like. Maybe disposable underwear? Pizza every night?

[linnea27]

SAHM is hard precisely because it is boring and monotonous. That's why these women are trying to claim it's rocket science. They're unhappy and bored and when they look at a woman who has choices in life they are jealous, so they try and build themselves up in comparison. It's like people who regret having children so they try and convince other people to have kids too. If you're secure and confident you don't need to mess with other people.

I'm still not sure what they think the homes of people without advanced homemaking degrees (which they don't have either) look like. Maybe disposable underwear? Pizza every night?

The thing that struck me about this post is that Jacinda often posts that she needed a reminder of how important being a SAHM is, she needed to read someone else's "inspirational post" on motherhood, burst into tears while looking at her laundry pile or dish pile, etc etc. She hasn't made much secret of the fact that she finds parenting three young kids exhausting and sometimes frustrating, and that's because raising three young kids is, well, exhausting and sometimes frustrating. But she had the upbringing she says other exhausted and frustrated moms who write to her missed out on. She was raised by a Christian SAHM, was homeschooled, went the courtship route, and had a bunch of siblings. If even with that 'ideal' upbringing she is frustrated and exhausted, I am not sure why she is patting herself on the back when she reads these so-called letters from women who blame their frustration on FEMINISM!!!1!!1.

[treehugger]

Just read the actual blog post.

Obviously, I found the tone obnoxious since I don't believe in submission, don't think that grown women need to be under their father's "protection" and don't think that household management is just for girls.

Patriarchal crap aside, though, I can see some reason to say that effective household management takes some education and skill.

Imagine that there was an job posting for one or two people to run a residential facility for children. The job description includes:

- managing the budget for the facility

- writing and implementing policies and procedures

- develop a mission statement, articulate core values and develop a strategy for implementing them throughout the programming

- ensuring that health and safety standards are maintained

- planning and preparing all meals, meeting nutritional standards

- doing daily programming

- teaching basic life skills

- implementing effective behavior management techniques for children, using positive parenting strategies and keeping current with the latest research on various methods

- ensure that children meet developmental milestones. Identify any concerns and arrange for assessment and services if needed.

- ensure that children form proper attachments to caregivers

- coordinating with other service providers, including health care professionals, teachers, etc. This includes choosing the best service providers, liaising with them, monitoring the progress of each child, doing any follow-up work at home, and attending meetings

- identify any problems or special needs, and arrange for any extra services needed and do any necessary modifications

- providing appropriate infant stimulation and early childhood education

- providing tutoring and homework assistance for older children

- promote literacy

- manage all IT services and computer literacy

- providing guidance and counseling to the children

- set up a management structure that utilizes a cooperative model, being sure to role model respectful non-hierarchal communication and conflict-resolution techniques for the children

- provide safe transportation

To do that job well, you'd certainly need plenty of advanced skills - whether or not the children were your own.

It absolutely takes education and skill. I agree with everything you've said 2xx1xyJD. In a sense, I even understand what Jacinda is saying the article. But I also agree with what YPestis wrote. Most of the skills Jacinda mentions are LIFE skills. And, some people don't even really need to try to learn those skills. Some people are amazing cooks, and some people have amazing organizational skill, and some people are incredible with money, and some are great at time management. And, I would argue that most adults (unlike so many of Jacinda's straw women ;) ) to some degree have worked on those skills, and are able to use them. The skills you mentioned are fantastic skills for any mom to have SAHM or not. But the fact is, being homeschooled and trained as a SAHM does not guarantee that the person will have those skills. In fact, I would argue that in come cases, having a higher education (think teaching, nursing, psychology, etc...) would help, especially with the skills you mentioned. But, a person can have a degree in anything she wants, and still be able to learn and use those skills as a parent. To put people in tiny little boxes, like Jacinda constantly does, irritates the ever-loving crap out of me.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Oh, I agree that you don't need a SOTDRT diploma in advanced homemaking!

My point was just that running a household and raising children is not a mindless task, if you do it right. It draws on many skills, many of which would be used and valued in other careers.

[JesusFightClub]

I don't think it's mindless but a lot of the stuff is common sense in a way that academic disciplines aren't. I had to learn research skills, I didn't have to learn to prevent my small nieces from eating random stuff they found or need a course of study to discover that leaving dirty dishes out attracts flies.

My mum is not a lawyer but for her job she had to memorise a lot of case law to pass exams. She had a big box of cards, each with the name of the case and salient points about it and when I was little I remember my dad testing her by picking up a card and saying the name of the case, she had to say back what it was about and what point it proved. He didn't have to hoick out a card and say "When ironing my shirts, love, how do you make the collars stay pointy?"or "When you make me an omlet, how many eggs and when do you add the tomatoes, beginning, middle or end?"

Homemaking just isn't academe, which doesn't make it rubbish, just different.

[salsa]

*sigh* poor little me, so helpless with my Master's Degree from a selective university. I don't know how to clean a toilet or cook a proper meal. *sigh* I *gasp* teach men! My poor little children never had a decent snack; all I knew how to do was give them fruit or peanut butter on celery or graham crackers. They never got whipped with a plumbing line; they simply were taught to respect others and themselves. My poor family! Imagine if I knew how to do more than throw laundry into a machine, add an appropriate amount of soap, and turn it on; their clothes would be so much cleaner! What would my floors look like if I knew how to do more than mop and vacuum? oh, pray for us; we are so lost and hopeless.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I don't think it's mindless but a lot of the stuff is common sense in a way that academic disciplines aren't. I had to learn research skills, I didn't have to learn to prevent my small nieces from eating random stuff they found or need a course of study to discover that leaving dirty dishes out attracts flies.

My mum is not a lawyer but for her job she had to memorise a lot of case law to pass exams. She had a big box of cards, each with the name of the case and salient points about it and when I was little I remember my dad testing her by picking up a card and saying the name of the case, she had to say back what it was about and what point it proved. He didn't have to hoick out a card and say "When ironing my shirts, love, how do you make the collars stay pointy?"or "When you make me an omlet, how many eggs and when do you add the tomatoes, beginning, middle or end?"

Homemaking just isn't academe, which doesn't make it rubbish, just different.

I get your point, I really do, but I'm having a little chuckle here because of my own family's quirks.

I was paranoid about babies choking because of professional experiences that my sister and I had. She worked in a rehab center with a boy who was in a chronic vegetative state after choking on a grape, while I had a big case where a baby choked to death on a screw she found on the floor. The paranoia was made worse by the fact that my husband - very highly educated but lacking visual/spatial and organizational skills - was constantly dropping small change.

Of course, not to solely make fun on my husband, I was also a bit clueless about household management. More than once, I'd be rushing around trying to get to my job at the child protection agency on Monday morning, only to discover that the baby's bottle had been sitting in her daycare bag since Friday and resembled a science experiment.

As for ironing and eggs? I don't actually use an iron, so I have no idea. At some point, I figured out that onions and mushroom taste better if you saute them before adding the eggs, but my husband still adds them at random.

I guess we're a bunch of nerds. Practical common sense doesn't come that easily to us (otherwise we'd know not to mix plastic and ovens). Legal and medical questions are much easier.

[louisa05]

I get your point, I really do, but I'm having a little chuckle here because of my own family's quirks.

I was paranoid about babies choking because of professional experiences that my sister and I had. She worked in a rehab center with a boy who was in a chronic vegetative state after choking on a grape, while I had a big case where a baby choked to death on a screw she found on the floor. The paranoia was made worse by the fact that my husband - very highly educated but lacking visual/spatial and organizational skills - was constantly dropping small change.

Of course, not to solely make fun on my husband, I was also a bit clueless about household management. More than once, I'd be rushing around trying to get to my job at the child protection agency on Monday morning, only to discover that the baby's bottle had been sitting in her daycare bag since Friday and resembled a science experiment.

As for ironing and eggs? I don't actually use an iron, so I have no idea. At some point, I figured out that onions and mushroom taste better if you saute them before adding the eggs, but my husband still adds them at random.

I guess we're a bunch of nerds. Practical common sense doesn't come that easily to us (otherwise we'd know not to mix plastic and ovens). Legal and medical questions are much easier.

I once witnessed my sister-in-law trying to make chicken noodle soup. After concluding that it tasted too bland, she decided to add some milk.

Really, seriously, good cooking is not common sense. Again, that doesn't mean you need an advanced degree. But the notion that people have these skills as a matter of common sense is likely coming from those who grew up learning these tasks from parents in a gradual and natural way.

[browngrl]

I don't much like housework. I do appreciate a clean, well organized home but I'd rather read a good book than clean. However, like it or not housework is a basic fact of life for everyone who isn't rich enough or lucky enough to have someone else do all the grunt work. So unless you want to live in squalor and disarray - you have to learn to do some things. Luckily the basics are pretty easy to acquire and certainly don't require a degree or any special skill. However I see that for people who love this sort of thing - it can be a career. I have no problem with anyone (man or woman) who wants to make a career of being a homemaker (in fact I like to be friends with such people as they generally are excellent hosts) and I see all the women I know who have chosen to be SAHM have no problem with me not wanting to be a homemaker. I think we are all comfortable with the choices of others because we ourselves had options and choices. Fundies like Jacinda seem to harp on the work at home/work outside the home or college/no college debate because they need to validate themselves. I don't get the feeling that Jacinda enjoys her days very much but this dissatisfaction does not have a place in her religion so she has to convince herself that she is happy. Hence these diatribes against women who don't stay at home.

[salex]

I would again recommend that the people who want their children to know the ins and outs of homemaking (an myriad other skills from dog training to photography to goat, rabbit, chicken, livestock raising to gardening and crops) should put them in 4-H at a young age.

However, for those who want advanced degrees in homemaking... and not the home economics arena that may include hotel and restaurant management, etc, there are options available. Butler/ home manager schools. Starkey International is one that has been around for a while (I actually have their book called "Setting Household Standards" which is very similar to Flylady, except that it assumes household help--ie, the butler/household manager likely hires cleaners to do the heavy lifting.

But, the multi week course that would amount to an advanced degree in homemaking is available here .starkeyintl.com/curricula/certification-programs.html and their course description is available here .starkeyintl.com/images/forms/8wkcurriculum.pdf

I have no idea of the fundies have a distance learning class like this for their daughters, but I"m surpised they haven't, if they don't. Is this like their finishing school?

Now, I will take a moment of silence to mourn the life I had going before it was killed by a narcissistic brother in lawfell apart/got delayed. And remember-- never go into business with relatives... amen.

[starfish]

I don't do it for snacks so much, but I am constantly googling "healthy toddler dinners" and things like that. Trying to get out of a rut, or come up with a unique way to make something, anything to get them to eat whatever I make for their dinner. I love hearing what other people serve and what other toddlers like to eat willingly.

I hope you don't go weeping to your local fundie friends about your obvious ineptitude. They would be all "I told you that medical degree was incompatible with discovering healthy toddler meals! You can be a doctor/scientistic/lawyer or provide healthy toddler meals but you can't do both because...scripture! "

[August]

I once witnessed my sister-in-law trying to make chicken noodle soup. After concluding that it tasted too bland, she decided to add some milk.

Really, seriously, good cooking is not common sense. Again, that doesn't mean you need an advanced degree. But the notion that people have these skills as a matter of common sense is likely coming from those who grew up learning these tasks from parents in a gradual and natural way.

The skills I learned during my advanced degree in academics were what I used to transition from "can feed self" to an adaptable cook. Research, problem solving, synthesising ideas, etc are very very useful skills. Good cooking may not be common sense, but it IS science.