J.Maxwell rents home to parents?

[theologygeek]

It's funny how different perspectives can be. When my mother got engaged at 19 in the early 80s my grandfather thought it was a horrible idea for her to get married so young and told her that she and my dad should just live together for a while.

My mother is the total opposite now. She went from not wanting me to move out until marriage, to trying to make me live with a man. She's in her 70's now and her jolly seniors club corrupted her. All her senior friends are shacking up because they don't want to lose their benefits. She's bold now. She says "Just live with a man. Everybody's doing it, you know."

[freejugar]

Don't they cut their own hair? I always imagined them like the type that would

Anyway, Mary probably decided to pluck it herself

[Patsy]

Hey, my memory is just like how these families treat their children, from blanket training to sister daughter slaves, it's infallibly wrong! ;-)

I don't know where I got the eyebrow thing from, maybe it was a comment? Or hell, maybe it was a talk on another site that merged into my memory as actually happening. Regardless, these are the things I think about when I see her, and definitely not the image they want to project.

I could have SWORN something happened on 18 Kids, but when I went back and watched it happened slightly differently. I was SO SURE I had seen it, though.

[MamaJunebug]

At every turn he shows us his superior conversation skills! I can't imagine why we all aren't flocking to his feet for more enlightenment!!

Well, *we* aren't, but you never know - book sales might be through the roof. Geez, I hope not.

What I take away from his snippy, terse replies is the tried-and-true rule of Stevhovah and all other cult leaders: "Do as I say, not as I do."

Mary's eyebrow/s: I want to say that about 2 years ago, she went from caterpillars (tm Carmindy on What Not To Wear) to well-groomed brows, and that the change happened right about the time all the gals got their hair shaped up, although only slightly. It was during this board's yuku days, I'm positive about that much. Because I remember we discussed it, and were happy for the girl, but I also don't remember it ever having been discussed by the Maxhellions.

ETA: Did I read that "Haley's" post about Neighbours was scrubbed from the Maxblog? Hooo! Proof positive that Steve - or one of his acolytes - reads here. Love it. L.o.v.e. it!!!!!

[Curious]

I haven't read all the comments yet, so if someone has covered this already, I apologize.

I thought both as a child and later as a parent, the one of the main jobs of parents was to raise your kids with values and if you did your job right, when you sent them out into the world you could TRUST that they would do the right thing. Granted there would be some mistakes along the way, but on the BIG THINGS™, why do they have absolutely NO trust in their kids. Why do they fear that the very second their kids hear an opposing opinion they will jump ship and flee. Why do they think their kids will do the wrong thing when faced with temptation, if they have raised them right and with strong faith and values? People, all people, are faced with temptations virtually every day. Most of us make the right choices the great majority of the time. Even people who have shitty childhoods are able to make the right choices the majority of the time. Of course, no one is perfect and we all make mistakes, but that is part of life and you (hopefully) learn from it and move on to do better next time. There are consequences for those that continue to make poor choices, but those people tend to be the minority of the population.

If you can't trust your adult children to live alone or go to the store alone, how can you trust them to be married? How can you trust them to raise their kids properly? How can you trust them to make financial decisions? If you've never been allowed to make a mistake, how can you learn to do the right thing? It's just another area where they do their children such a huge disservice and quite frankly, it's also insulting to their children and doesn't speak very well to their parenting model. Why would I want to follow their advice if they are raising children that they can't trust?

[WonderingInWA]

I haven't read all the comments yet, so if someone has covered this already, I apologize.

I thought both as a child and later as a parent, the one of the main jobs of parents was to raise your kids with values and if you did your job right, when you sent them out into the world you could TRUST that they would do the right thing. Granted there would be some mistakes along the way, but on the BIG THINGS™, why do they have absolutely NO trust in their kids. Why do they fear that the very second their kids hear an opposing opinion they will jump ship and flee. Why do they think their kids will do the wrong thing when faced with temptation, if they have raised them right and with strong faith and values? People, all people, are faced with temptations virtually every day. Most of us make the right choices the great majority of the time. Even people who have shitty childhoods are able to make the right choices the majority of the time. Of course, no one is perfect and we all make mistakes, but that is part of life and you (hopefully) learn from it and move on to do better next time. There are consequences for those that continue to make poor choices, but those people tend to be the minority of the population.

If you can't trust your adult children to live alone or go to the store alone, how can you trust them to be married? How can you trust them to raise their kids properly? How can you trust them to make financial decisions? If you've never been allowed to make a mistake, how can you learn to do the right thing? It's just another area where they do their children such a huge disservice and quite frankly, it's also insulting to their children and doesn't speak very well to their parenting model. Why would I want to follow their advice if they are raising children that they can't trust?

I hope you will try to post this to the Maxwell blog. Obviously, they will never let it through, but Stevie has got to read your words. You have nailed spot on, and especially with regards to his particular regard to over-controlled parenting. Thank you for your thoughtful process and putting what you did in words! :)

[uber frau]

Steve is on record as saying that he loves his children more than he trusts them. That means that he is not concerned about creating healthy and functional adults but rather about ensuring his progeny go to heaven when they die.

The schtick about raising waging earning adults is far more about keeping up an image to convince the buying public they're not completely bonkers than it is about wanting their children to be independent and productive members of society. (and keeping the 'children' so busy they don't have time to think is always a bonus).

[theologygeek]

I thought both as a child and later as a parent, the one of the main jobs of parents was to raise your kids with values and if you did your job right, when you sent them out into the world you could TRUST that they would do the right thing.

Joseph can't move out until he is married. It doesn't look right for business. The Maxwells can't market themselves as a close knit family with the children being best friends if one of the children wants to leave and be on his own. It's the same with any business. You probably wouldn't go to a dentist with bad teeth. If the Maxwells don't play the part, they'll lose customers. If they lose customers, they don't eat. Don't forget, this is how the whole family makes their money, not just Steve and Teri. They all have to play the part to keep their scam going.

[NellieBell]

Okay, I'll just admit I was lurking, once again, on their sleep inducing blog. I had insomnia last night and Mr. Nelliebell refused to go buy me liquor. Asshole. :lol: Anyway, I agree with whomever said that Steve is looking a bit rounder these days. The song "roll out the barrel" kept running through my mind while admiring the latest pictures of Stevie. It indeed does look like he's been hitting the animal crackers pretty hard, or the Cracker Barrel. Does he have a hidden stash at Joseph's? Either way, you're looking rather jolly Stevie. Best get up at 4:30 a.m. and start your cardio training a half hour earlier than the norm and quit wasting time deleting comments. You won't burn calories sitting in the your chair in a paranoid state, while those scary eyes scan new comments attempting to decipher who's a true Christian and which one of us is fucking with you on that particular day. Plus, you wouldn't want your true cult followers to believe you're growing a paunch and that pitiful beard to play Idol Santa for your Reversals and grandchildren. It would KILL Rebecca Eleventy.

Oh and for the record, I'm not marathon ready myself but I don't have a blog touting my super speshul relationship with the Savior while simultaneously mewing on and on about my family's healthy eating, iconic hikes, and early morning family exercise sessions.

[johnhugh]

Stevie has deleted Kylie's post, so that's the end of Kylie M posting on the Maxwell blog, least it was up for a few days, so either he has been reading here or one of their sheep has been secretly watching the BEAST. :naughty:

Hi Stevie!!! :penguin-no: I will be back!

[BullyJBG]

Interesting; the responses to the naysayers. Probably other comments that mention Elizabeth were rejected too. We can't deny she exists, and existed in their family, even if they want to try.

We'll see what they answer next. About Sarah and what their thoughts are on how equipped for life she'll be after their deaths if she never marries? On Anna? On Mary and why she REALLY isn't as ready for graduation as we thought she was? I'm not COMPLETELY against single adults living with their parents until they marry/parents die. No choice is perfect; there are advantages and disadvantages to both. There is NO absolute proof that Jesus stayed living with Mary and his siblings until His death. And He certainly was no stay-at-home son! We can assume that Lazarus, Mary and Martha all lived together after their parents' deaths, and they must've done SOME work in order to support Jesus in His travels. I have NEVER found there to be an absolute in the Bible about single adults' living arrangements. But I DO believe that single adults, wherever they live, should not spend ALL their time with their families; they need to be doing jobs, or preparing to. Using the gifts God gives to each one. Parents' jobs are to encourage them in it, and to make their OWN decisions.

Okay, enough of that. I hope Steve at least takes this into account if he DOES read here.

[sparkles]

My comment wasn't posted. No surprise here, as they never are because I'm usually questioning something. Same in this case.

“Since Joseph owns his own home, why can’t he live in it? He doesn’t have a wife and kids to support, so his expenses would be low.â€

I'm curious why you would consider the above comment to be 1. from a "naysayer" and 2. to have an agenda. It seems like a perfectly logical question to me, one that might be asked of any homeowner--young or old, male or female, Christian or non-Christian--who has chosen not to live in his or her home or to use it for income purposes, either for the interim or as a long-term investment. Your leap from considering a simple question from a blog reader to equating it with "naysayers with agendas" seems to be a big one, and an unfounded one as well. You could easily have addressed this question (which may even have come from one of your fellow believers) without automatically putting both the question and the questioner in a negative light.

[WonderingInWA]

My comment wasn't posted. No surprise here, as they never are because I'm usually questioning something. Same in this case.

I challenge you, Stevie, to address this post! Even if you reject it on your blog, you can't deny that you've seen it. See, we're all onto you that way. So, address it.

[anjulibai]

I think to Stevehovah, anything that isn't totally laudatory is naysaying, even simple, neutral comments.

[CanadianMom]

The Maxwell blog is full of bad grammar, but Joseph's post was horrible. I really feel for his future "young lady". I would hate to have a husband who thinks he is smart, but cannot back it up with his words.

[Marian the Librarian]

Bumping to report that the examination of naysayery continues apace. The most recent comment, and Stevehovah's response:

Lisa B on October 14, 2013 at 9:35 am said:

I love Joseph’s response! One thing that might be helpful when receiving comments or questions from others, is to understand that they aren’t always meant to be critical. The responsible way to be, according to the world, is to gain independence as soon as possible. Often, children who remain at home for many years after the age of adulthood, are viewed as lazy or not really wanting to grow up. That is obviously not the case with you, and many other families. But, your family’s work ethic is not common either. We really are a society that makes sure we get our leisure time, and then some.

Taking time to share your experiences, as you do in your blog, and answering what really may just be curiosity, in a kind and constructive way is one of the many ways you are helping others see that there is another life-view. I sometimes have misconceptions about other churches and choices that others are making, and I appreciate it when a person is willing to help me out with that – just as I appreciate it when someone comes to me with questions about choices that I make, instead of assuming, or asking someone else who doesn’t really know my situation or beliefs.

>>>>>>

Thank you. Over time, it becomes obvious to us who are the naysayers and who really are asking questions with the intent on learning and understanding. We try to be patient and understanding with all.

[sparkles]

Bumping to report that the examination of naysayery continues apace. The most recent comment, and Stevehovah's response:

My, how big of you, Steve. We mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging morons are forever in your debt.

[Justme]

I don't understand why they are so sensitive as to what other people think of them. They have to know that their lifestyle is rather "unique" in todays society. When they make their lifestyle public and try to earn a living off it, people are going to raise questions. I doubt very much they'd agree with my lifestyle and I could care less. I'm sure they snark on "us" as much as we snark on them.

I also think they "we" are just a small part of those that question their lifestyle and publications. I knew about them years before I found FJ. (Googling to see if anyone else thought they were as odd as I did brought me here.) I wonder if anyone has ever tried to return their purchase materials. I wonder what they would do. Would they cheerfully refund their money and say "I'm sorry it wasn't helpful." My guess is they scratch their heads as to how anyone couldn't think there stuff was so wonderful and tell them, sorry, you've already read xxx, so no refunds.

JMHO, but I think that their revenue stream is drying up. They don't have as many conferences, not as many people attend their conferences, they don't sell as much stuff. It's just a downward spiral and is forcing them to re-evaluate their "products".

[Coconut Flan]

Do you think that's a good sign that their end of the spectrum isn't drawing a lot of new recruits?

[kpmom]

Here's a comment that I liked. Steve's response was...odd;

Patti on October 11, 2013 at 11:29 pm said:

"This lifestyle may work for you and it is nice of you to explain, but those of us who chose a college education, a career and independent living are no less Godly, no less Christian and no lower in the Lord’s eyes than those of you who didn’t. I hope this is not what you are implying. I do hope you respect other people’s lifestyle choices as you expect others to respect yours.

>>>>>>>>>

Each will each stand before the Lord at the judgement to account for the life they lived and the choices they have made. We don’t judge anyone. There was no implication or judgement in the post. I think you will see over time how few people really have freedom and peace in the choices they make. Therefore, they tend to get upset easily if someone chooses something different than they did.

When we go to a restaurant, we are not troubled if everyone else orders something different than we do, even if we think we are ordering the very best on the menu. Then why might some be troubled if we make different choices than they do in life?

Have a great day Patti and pursue the Lord Jesus with your whole heart."

I don't think anyone is "troubled" about the choices Steve and Teri make. If we are troubled at all, it's because we believe Steve and Teri's choices are foisted upon the children.

And where does Steve get off claiming he doesn't judge, when Joseph said right in his post that he lives at home because, " My desire is to live a life pleasing to Jesus and a life that is in obedience to His Holy Bible. I hope this makes it understandable and clear as to why I am choosing to live with my family until I am married."

Sure sounds to me like they believe anybody who doesn't live at home 'til marriage is not in obedience.

[ncb]

I don't understand why they are so sensitive as to what other people think of them. They have to know that their lifestyle is rather "unique" in todays society. When they make their lifestyle public and try to earn a living off it, people are going to raise questions. I doubt very much they'd agree with my lifestyle and I could care less. I'm sure they snark on "us" as much as we snark on them.

I also think they "we" are just a small part of those that question their lifestyle and publications. I knew about them years before I found FJ. (Googling to see if anyone else thought they were as odd as I did brought me here.) I wonder if anyone has ever tried to return their purchase materials. I wonder what they would do. Would they cheerfully refund their money and say "I'm sorry it wasn't helpful." My guess is they scratch their heads as to how anyone couldn't think there stuff was so wonderful and tell them, sorry, you've already read xxx, so no refunds.

JMHO, but I think that their revenue stream is drying up. They don't have as many conferences, not as many people attend their conferences, they don't sell as much stuff. It's just a downward spiral and is forcing them to re-evaluate their "products".

It is also "forcing" them to use their son's unoccupied home to write a book so they can then write off the property taxes, utilities etc. as a work expense.

[sparkles]

Steve is a fucking liar who lies. If he didn't judge or think everyone who doesn't follow the path he chose is heading for eternity in hell then he wouldn't be asking servers and Costco cashiers where they thought they were going when the die. They wouldn't go on and on about the necessity for keeping your children locked away from the world. His children wouldn't talk about how sad that the unbelievers haven't accepted Jesus. They wouldn't spend New Year's Eve crying and praying and praying and crying and probably flagellating themselves for all we know, as they take on the sins of the world. They wouldn't lock themselves in a dark house on Halloween because heaven forbid a little kid should show up on their doorstep dressed as an evil, wicked Disney princess.

Who the fuck do you think you're fooling, Steve? You judge as easily as you breathe.

[thoughtful]

Each will each stand before the Lord at the judgement to account for the life they lived and the choices they have made. We don’t judge anyone. There was no implication or judgement in the post.

Man, my sides hurt now.

I think you will see over time how few people really have freedom and peace in the choices they make. Therefore, they tend to get upset easily if someone chooses something different than they did.

Oh, and that's not judgy or defensive at all, eh, Steve?

Enjoying my peace and freedom here -- more than your poor children will ever know.

[nelliebelle1197]

Okay, I'll just admit I was lurking, once again, on their sleep inducing blog. I had insomnia last night and Mr. Nelliebell refused to go buy me liquor. Asshole. :lol: Anyway, I agree with whomever said that Steve is looking a bit rounder these days. The song "roll out the barrel" kept running through my mind while admiring the latest pictures of Stevie. It indeed does look like he's been hitting the animal crackers pretty hard, or the Cracker Barrel. Does he have a hidden stash at Joseph's? Either way, you're looking rather jolly Stevie. Best get up at 4:30 a.m. and start your cardio training a half hour earlier than the norm and quit wasting time deleting comments. You won't burn calories sitting in the your chair in a paranoid state, while those scary eyes scan new comments attempting to decipher who's a true Christian and which one of us is fucking with you on that particular day. Plus, you wouldn't want your true cult followers to believe you're growing a paunch and that pitiful beard to play Idol Santa for your Reversals and grandchildren. It would KILL Rebecca Eleventy.

Oh and for the record, I'm not marathon ready myself but I don't have a blog touting my super speshul relationship with the Savior while simultaneously mewing on and on about my family's healthy eating, iconic hikes, and early morning family exercise sessions.

Nelliebell, I will buy you liquor.

[treemom]

I can't be the only one who remembers some asshattish post about Catholics they eventually scrubbed. Sarah had taken a picture of a picturesque Catholic Church and had lovely commentary.

Plus, yeah I judge them, as stevoah knows. Because the peddle something that says they save and protect their kids from heartache and keep them pure. They imply that I was less whole for my spouse because I dated (although I married at a respectable in the fundy world age of 19) and yet they have two broken courtships and one broken engagement. (And were Chris's engagements? I can't remember). That is more than I have times 3. And I dated and wasn't whole and pure.

They judge. And they don't judge by anything they can observe, they judge by what they assume.