Zach Bates and Whitney engaged

[scc12]

For real. What if Whitney had lunch plans with friends? Study group? A paper due needing library research? As much "fun" as a whisk-away surprise trip is on the surface, it's almost sinister when you unpack it. It's like he and the family are already marking their territory

Oh yes,I thought they were doing so when it was announced Whitney had been 'convicted' to not wear pants anymore.

I also think they made good and sure she was agreeable to no birth control,staying home and other fundie aspects.There's no way they aren't going to control this whole marriage,imo.Or at least try.I do hope Zach breaks away from it,at least in some ways,for their sake.

[scc12]

This is a good point, really. While neither Zach or Chad are well off and who knows how they will manage to provide for their wives and the expected big families, both of them have probably been encouraged to save some money for courting and marriage. Probably not much but it's enough for them to splurge on the whole proposal thing; plus they probably are able to stretch the money a bit by finding deals, etc.

This is exactly what I thought when I saw both Chad/Erin's and Zach/Whit's proposal/engagement photos. These are the "fun" times right now but it's going to be a different story down the line.

That's what I think as well.They need to make it fun to rope them in at first,but several babies later,little sleep,lots of housework, cooking and caring for/homeschooling little ones is going to get tiring.Add to that they can't say NO to the patriarch. UH

[alysee]

Depending on her personality, it can also feel really good at first knowing you will never have to work again and that someone will be taking care of her. Unfortunately, what she forgets is to project herself 15 years from now with possibly 10 kids....one income isn't going to go that far with that many kids and everyone in your house, but especially your children will suffer because you are doing what a 2000 year old book written by men is telling you to do.

[Coconut Flan]

More completely men in the late 20th century interpreting the almost 2000 year old book to mean what they want as took selected phrases and sentences out of context, twisted their meaning, and added in whatever slant they chose so they could justify their patriarchal position.

[takers401]

Hmm, I don't know... I don't think it would bother me that much, especially for what seems like a short trip (2 days I think?). But then again I'm making the assumption that if someone were to plan that for me they would be considerate enough to creep around and find out my schedule, talk to friends, etc. to make sure I didn't have any big deadlines looming or plans and would be able to "afford" the absence. I'm also someone who does better most of the time self studying over going to lecture classes, anyway.

My now husband sort of did this when he proposed to me. We were on vacation in Washington, DC and were headed out to a day of touring Arlington Cemetery and other attractions when he ran back inside as he "forgot" something. He then came out with my luggage and we were off to the airport to fly to New York City (where we went to Phantom of the Opera - 6th row center!!!, Italian dinner afterwards, and proposal following with glow-in-the-dark "Marry Me" stars). I thought mine was one of the moment romantic proposals I've ever heard of so I don't see Whitney as being unhappy that her schedule was rearranged for a few days so she could get and extra special proposal of her own. Since he went to the trouble of arranging her absence I'm going to assume he also arranged for notes from a fellow classmate to cover what she missed.

[NellieBell]

I thought it was presumptuous to put it mildly and I would not have liked it. But, like others have already stated, I was raised to not allow the person with the penis to think for me. I also have to wonder what other reasons he may pull her out of class for. Mama Kelly needing an additional hand with Zach's brothers and sisiters? Gothard sending up the bat signal calling for emergency bible study? I think it belittles the importance of a college education, and they may have to depend on hers considering this is the Bates family (which I can normally tolerate better than the other Gothard Bots). I was lazy and didn't look at where she goes to school, but I know when I went (and am still going part time for the next degree), no one but myself would have been allowed to pull me out. I had to literally jump through hoops to take a test early and turn in a term paper when I wanted to go to England to be with my best friend and help with my god daughers when she had mm surgery. It was a major ordeal and left me very stressed with a ton of extra work on top of a full class load. I then returned home to a ton of new work.

[socalrules]

I think Zack probably gave Whitney the type of proposal he knew she would want. Some people like the over the top proposals. I am also sure she did not think it was a big deal that he got her the days off for the trip. Yes, it would bother the rest of us but most of us have jobs where its hard to even get a regular day off, are in control of our own lives and do not like others overstepping boundaries. I am sure she didn't see what he did as a form of control. As to school, she probably no longer cares because she knew they would get engaged soon and she won't be working once they are married. She knows what her future holds. We have to remember that the fundies don't see the world as we do. Their expections and ours are completely different. This is all up their alley.

On a side note, I thought Whitney was beautifully dressed in their engagement pics. I have never seen a Duggar woman look so put together and normally dressed.

[HereticHick]

I'd be seriously pissed if my now-husband "arranged" for me to leave work/school for 3 days, but on the other hand, the romantic side of me would be thrilled. Note that Kelly comments that they stayed with the family of Alyssa's beau, John Webster--son of Congressman Daniel Webster--while in Florida

PS I also thought that Whitney looked very nice--the Duggar gals, frankly, often try too hard with their accessories and their hair and their tanning products.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

IReallyAmHopewell wrote:

I think TLC OWES Zak a nice honeymoon at least for throwing him under the bus on his first "courtship"...... I'm sure the Duggars will be there for Erin and I imagine all the Duggar girls will be in it along with all the Bates girls--55 or so attendants or something like that! :lol:

The first courtship was aired on an NBC news show.

Here's where it was on the show:

7 131 "38 Kids & Counting!" October 18, 2011

The Duggars once again visit their friends, the Bates, for some fellowship and fun. In addition, the oldest Bates son, Zach, makes a very special request to his girlfriend Sarah, to begin a courtship.

[sleepygirl1]

Oh yes,I thought they were doing so when it was announced Whitney had been 'convicted' to not wear pants anymore.

I also think they made good and sure she was agreeable to no birth control,staying home and other fundie aspects.There's no way they aren't going to control this whole marriage,imo.Or at least try.I do hope Zach breaks away from it,at least in some ways,for their sake.

Idk, doesn't she have 11 other siblings? She may have always not wanted to use birth control. But I agree with the pants, that she was probably strongly encouraged not to wear pants anymore.

[Ridiculous]

Is there a link to the "Whitney won't wear pants" announcement? I must have missed that. Did they really make a big announcement? O.o

[Pretzel]

No. Kelly just stated that Whitney has been wearing skirts more often lately, but also that Zach told her he loved her no matter what she's wearing. The way he looks at her and how in love he appears, I suppose Kelly spoke the truth. I am actually thinking that Zach is kind of a nice guy with good intentions. It's not his fault his parents joined Gothard's wackadoodle club.

[RosyDaisy]

Yeah, I'd be pissed. No one has a right to arrange time off work or school (if I were still there) for me. That's presumptuous, at best. I wouldn't want to be taken on a trip without knowing I was going and I wouldn't want my boyfriend's parents so involved in my engagement - or life.

But, I was raised differently and taught to be an independent person from birth. I'd flip my shit if some guy pulled that with me.

I am not un romantic. I am simply not interested in even the thought of someone else - and his parents for fucks sake - deciding when I skip school/work, where I go, how my future is to be.

It's called preparing her to be a fundie wife. Her feelings don't matter. She just needs to shut up, smile, keep sweet, and obey.:roll:

It's as clear as day that ALL of these courtships are arranged. The only couple I see as being truly in love are Erin and Chad, and that was just a fluke.

[singsingsing]

I don't think Zach and Whitney's courtship was arranged. They clearly met on their own and decided on their own that they wanted to get married. The courtship was just a formality for them. Of course, Zach picked someone his parents thought was suitable so it's not like they met much resistance.

[marmalade]

Her body-language is .... interesting: She always has one hand at Zach´s arm / front as if to say "No buddy, don´t come closer!" Anybody else noticed this or am I a little bit... paranoid? :evil-eye:

That and the arched back as if to pull away. The girl has no profile to her face other than her nose; I thought of her when I saw the sihlouette (sp. too lazy to look up) lady doing Duggar profiles in the old On the Road With 16 Children special that I watched - not in its entirety, just the good stuff - last night.

eta: Kelly posted in the comments of one of the blog posts that after much prayer with HIS family, Whitney was "convicted" to wear skirts full-time. Seriously, this just boils down to peer pressure since Zach ain't moving off the reservation anytime soon, if ever.

[anjulibai]

Kelly wrote this in response to someone asking how Zach got over the hurt of his failed courtship to Sarah:

He rallied around friends and family through the hard times. John Duggar and Andy Leftwich were absolute God sent sources of encouragement.

So, it sounds like JD and Zach are pretty close. I know we've talked on this board about how Gil & Kelly and JB & Michelle don't seem to like each other, but perhaps their kids are okay with each other.

I wonder if JD has gone through a failed courtship himself. I remember there was a girl that was hanging out with the Duggars a lot a few years ago (Anna H....something?) and there was speculation on TWOP that she and JD might end up in a courtship. Perhaps JD has been rejected a time or two?

In any case, makes me hopeful for a JD/Michael(a) courtship eventually - I really think they are well suited to each other.

[RosyDaisy]

What do we "really" know about Whitney other than what has been told to us? If she's one of 11 kids and knew the Bates family, that tells me she most likely comes from a fundie or fundie-lite family (that wasn't on our radar). So, no, I don't believe for one second that Zach and Whitney were just two young adults who met and fell in love.... especially given the fact that she is now wearing skirts because she was "convicted" to do so after talking to Bates family. Sorry, ain't buying into that at all. If she wasn't fundie or fundie-lite and from a family they knew, no way in hell would she be welcomed into the family and Zach would have been disowned. And no way in hell would Kelly blog about it. They are just as bad as the other fundies we snark on, but have a knack for sugar coating it all.

[sunshine]

That and the arched back as if to pull away. The girl has no profile to her face other than her nose; I thought of her when I saw the sihlouette (sp. too lazy to look up) lady doing Duggar profiles in the old On the Road With 16 Children special that I watched - not in its entirety, just the good stuff - last night.

eta: Kelly posted in the comments of one of the blog posts that after much prayer with HIS family, Whitney was "convicted" to wear skirts full-time. Seriously, this just boils down to peer pressure since Zach ain't moving off the reservation anytime soon, if ever.

If JD was rejected in courtship, fundie parents will be hestiant to allow their daughter to pursue a relationship. Unless the attitude of failed relationship subside, JD best resort will be to take Zach's approach. Since Zach and JD talk, it is a possible route for him and to sway his parents.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

What do we "really" know about Whitney other than what has been told to us? If she's one of 11 kids and knew the Bates family, that tells me she most likely comes from a fundie or fundie-lite family (that wasn't on our radar). So, no, I don't believe for one second that Zach and Whitney were just two young adults who met and fell in love.... especially given the fact that she is now wearing skirts because she was "convicted" to do so after talking to Bates family. Sorry, ain't buying into that at all. If she wasn't fundie or fundie-lite and from a family they knew, no way in hell would she be welcomed into the family and Zach would have been disowned. And no way in hell would Kelly blog about it. They are just as bad as the other fundies we snark on, but have a knack for sugar coating it all.

But she is adopted, which may or may not be formally, I don't recall. Her adopted family are fundie because the dad is a baptist minister, but she came to them later on, I think early teens? Because there was some article about the dad that didnt mention her when they listed his children. And she can't be too fundie if she is going to a real college, working at Sonic, and wearing pants, makeup, and a decent hairstyle.

[Ms Lucy Fur]

What do we "really" know about Whitney other than what has been told to us? If she's one of 11 kids and knew the Bates family, that tells me she most likely comes from a fundie or fundie-lite family (that wasn't on our radar). So, no, I don't believe for one second that Zach and Whitney were just two young adults who met and fell in love.... especially given the fact that she is now wearing skirts because she was "convicted" to do so after talking to Bates family. Sorry, ain't buying into that at all. If she wasn't fundie or fundie-lite and from a family they knew, no way in hell would she be welcomed into the family and Zach would have been disowned. And no way in hell would Kelly blog about it. They are just as bad as the other fundies we snark on, but have a knack for sugar coating it all.

The story is that Whitney and Zach met at Sonic where she works during the time Zach's courtship with Sarah went kaput. I don't know how it would benefit any of them to make up that story.

[RosyDaisy]

The story is that Whitney and Zach met at Sonic where she works during the time Zach's courtship with Sarah went kaput. I don't know how it would benefit any of them to make up that story.

We are talking about the same family who hung portraits of Confederate leaders in their house and then took them down once they were called out on it. We are talking about the same family who had emaciated horses and rode them (that scene was cut before it re-aired). We are talking about the same family that "borrows" money from their son. So, I don't think it's hard to believe they, embellish, sugar coat, mislead, or deceive people. Their history proves that.

[singsingsing]

It makes no sense whatsoever for Kelly to lie that Zach met Whitney at Sonic and became friends with her. If anything, one would expect her to lie and say the opposite, that they met through family or at church and that all their contact was chaperoned. She gains nothing from spinning some random story about her son falling in love with a girl he met working at a fast food joint. Remember, they're not seeking OUR approval, they're seeking the approval of their fellow fundies/gothardites.

[nokidsmom]

It makes no sense whatsoever for Kelly to lie that Zach met Whitney at Sonic and became friends with her. If anything, one would expect her to lie and say the opposite, that they met through family or at church and that all their contact was chaperoned. She gains nothing from spinning some random story about her son falling in love with a girl he met working at a fast food joint. Remember, they're not seeking OUR approval, they're seeking the approval of their fellow fundies/gothardites.

Yep, exactly. If Kelly was truly worried about how Zach and Whitney met would go over with their fellow fundies, she would (or could) spin it differently. From what I can see, she's telling it straight.

As far as Whitney wearing skirts more, who knows. She might be doing it during this short engagement period where there's going to be plenty of family gatherings so that she might wear skirts just for the occasion (and not stand out), but I am sure she still wears pants while working at Sonic (and she was probably wearing pants when Zach met her, so obviously not a deal breaker for him). And I wouldn't be surprised if she wears pants while at home and this may continue after she gets married as well.

[singsingsing]

The drive to belong is strong, especially in the young and impressionable. Whitney probably finds the prospect of going skirts-only exciting right now, like she'll become part of the in-crowd. Whether the novelty wears off will remain to be seen.

[EmiGirl]

Yep, exactly. If Kelly was truly worried about how Zach and Whitney met would go over with their fellow fundies, she would (or could) spin it differently. From what I can see, she's telling it straight.

As far as Whitney wearing skirts more, who knows. She might be doing it during this short engagement period where there's going to be plenty of family gatherings so that she might wear skirts just for the occasion (and not stand out), but I am sure she still wears pants while working at Sonic (and she was probably wearing pants when Zach met her, so obviously not a deal breaker for him). And I wouldn't be surprised if she wears pants while at home and this may continue after she gets married as well.

I know that when I'm around my inlaws I watch how I dress much more closely than I normally would just because I don't want to offend them and if I ever go to church with them again I'll probably wear a skirt because I respect that's how their church is.