"Harry Potter and the Lavender Brigade" by Doug Phillips

[slickcat79]

I really hate Sirius/Remus.... HATE.

Remus/Tonks ftw. Because I always loved their relationship in the books.

I think I remember reading an interview with David Thewlis where he said that he thought Lupin was going to be gay, so he sort of played him that way in Prisoner of Azkaban. Then he later finds out that he's supposed to be married to a woman and having a kid :o

I could see Lupin as gay before I'd see Sirius. Unless he was a Brian Kinney kind of gay...mm, Gale Harold :drool:

[turquoise]

My fundie-lite neighbor wouldn't let her kids read Harry Potter. Witchcraft! Black magic!! Evil!!!

But the Lord of the Rings trilogy was fine. :roll:

I never figured out what the difference was. My guess is that she had read Tolkein as a kid but her pastor said HP was evil.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I think I remember reading an interview with David Thewlis where he said that he thought Lupin was going to be gay, so he sort of played him that way in Prisoner of Azkaban. Then he later finds out that he's supposed to be married to a woman and having a kid :o

I could see Lupin as gay before I'd see Sirius. Unless he was a Brian Kinney kind of gay...mm, Gale Harold :drool:

I'd rather it be Sirius who was gay than Lupin. It's just because he seems like he'd be a macho guy, athletic, have all the girls fawning over him. In other words, he doesn't seem gay. But that doesn't mean he couldn't have been...I've always wanted a fictional gay character that didn't seem gay at all, mostly because people tell me i don't seem gay all the time and i'm pretty much as gay as humanly possible. I never liked Remus/Sirius, mostly because Remus was so good with Tonks. But there was never any proof that Sirius wasn't gay, was there? No mention of any long term relationships anyways which would have ruled it out for me. Of course, unless JK Rowling confirms it we can never be sure.

I got into early registration at pottermore, so i'm hoping that reveals other characters to have been gay (particularly currently living ones), because statistically it's just impossible there wasn't more than Dumbledore.

[Soulhuntress]

o-L5eg26htA A moment of our Patron Saint

[MamaJunebug]

J.K. Rowling was asked about her Christian faith , this was sometime between books 3 & 4 IIRC. She said (paraphrased) “Not that it’s anybody’s business, but yes, I go to church, and oftener than just baptisms and weddings.â€

Think about it, Doug Phillips: The magic in HP is all fanciful, spells that have nothing to do with any magick that people try to practice, with one big exception: The arts taught by Professor Trelawney in Divinations class. Tea-leaves reading, crystal ball gazing, etc. All things that actual people actually do.

It’s always been my guess that JKR wrote dismissively of the magick that people practice, now, because she considers it unreal. Get it, Doug? The “real†magic in her books is real. The “unreal†magic of our day is unreal in her books.*

She’s on your side in that, you ninnyhammer!

About the same time as JKR answered that question, I was lurking on a Lutheran discussion group, and I had run afoul of a lady IRL who said HP books were of the devil. Someone asked the Lutheran pastors on the discussion board what they thought of HP. Most said they considered it pretty good fiction. One said he would prefer everybody read and study the Holy Bible instead of any other book … and IiRC the tumbleweeds rolled across the screen.

But then, none of those pastors had any merchandise to sell. “Pastor†Doug does.

~~~~~~~~~

* No offense meant to the FJ pagans.

[acutexenophobia]

As someone who is studying childhood development...umm. Shut the hell up, Doug. Yes, children can tell the difference between fantasy and reality. And they can do it at quite a young age. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Harry Potter. It's a series about growing up, having courage, standing up for what you know is right and above all, love.

[Deleted12]

Sirius has posters of muggle girls on the wall at Grimmauld Place, plus he checks out some girls during the "Snape's Worst Memory" scene (which is the best scene in the series, and I will hear no arguments to the contrary).

Signs point to straight.

[masagoroll]

I always pictured young Sirius (haven't seen the movies beyond the 3rd) as really freaking hot and very heterosexual. I can see him and James teaming up together to get girls... hmmm :) Food for thought!

I think young Sirius was definitely hot no matter what! ;)

I was not saying that I think Sirius IS meant to be gay in the books, just that I ship Remus/Sirius and think that would have been awesome! I approach things from a fan fiction mentality where anything is possible, haha.

Reading Doug's article is so weird for me, because he clearly wants people to read it and go "OMG! He's right! We wouldn't think any homosexuality is acceptable in a book, so WHY IS WITCHCRAFT OK?" Whereas I just think "Homosexuality IS okay...and the magic is imaginary! So what's the point of this?" You can just tell he wants people to read it and be desperately CONVICTED and GUILTY.

[tehgoobster]

Speaking of gay (or potentially gay) Harry Potter characters, Professor Sprout totally pings my gaydar.

[forever ago]

Sirius has posters of muggle girls on the wall at Grimmauld Place, plus he checks out some girls during the "Snape's Worst Memory" scene (which is the best scene in the series, and I will hear no arguments to the contrary).

Signs point to straight.

Personally I think he's bi. Given the sort of family he grew up in, it wouldn't surprise me if he suppressed the 'gay side' and played up the straight side (and regardless of his sexuality, putting up pictures of Muggle girls would have achieved the desired effect of pissing off his parents). i've heard a lot of fellow fans say that homosexuality is OK in the Wizarding World, but either I'm completely missing something or it really isn't, since the Wizarding world is 50-100 years behind the Muggle world and Rita Skeeter uses Dumbledore's gay crush against him. Since in a sense, yes, HP is a kid's series (and Harry isn't always all that observant) JKR may not have wanted to put that in. Or maybe she just felt no reason to put it in, or simply couldn't find a way to. There had to have been something going on between Sirius and James, though James was straight and probably clueless about Sirius' feelings. And it wouldn't surprise me if that was the reason Sirius ran away from home at 16 and went to live with James.

[VodouDoll]

I never thought the Tonks-Lupin marriage came off all that great. Lupin was dragged into it in front of all his friends and a sobbing Tonks, protesting all the way. After they were married, he deeply regretted it and tried to abandon her. He was happy that their son was born healthy, but beyond that it seemed to me like she was madly in love and he just wanted out. I liked that there were marriages in the book that weren't happily ever after. It was interesting to read about.

[Bellatrix]

I never thought the Tonks-Lupin marriage came off all that great. Lupin was dragged into it in front of all his friends and a sobbing Tonks, protesting all the way. After they were married, he deeply regretted it and tried to abandon her. He was happy that their son was born healthy, but beyond that it seemed to me like she was madly in love and he just wanted out. I liked that there were marriages in the book that weren't happily ever after. It was interesting to read about.

It was a terrible marriage, alas. Remus did not seem enthusiastic about Tonks. He was rather resistant and she seemed to come off as being too desperate to finally "have" him at (multiple) times. While Hermione also went to some extremes when it came to her chasing down Ron and getting him to open up about his feelings, there was evidence in J.K.'s writing of Ron's sincere interest for her.

The irony of it all is that they got together because of the whole Harry vs. Voldie situation and died together because of it too. It's the one couple better off killed in the books. I couldn't imagine them growing old happily together although I love characters when taken individually.

[MamaJunebug]

Speaking of gay (or potentially gay) Harry Potter characters, Professor Sprout totally pings my gaydar.

Do you suppose that's because the actress Miriam Margolyes is gay? :think: I was a little surprised to find that out, my first (and therefore most lasting) impression of her being in her role as Mrs. Beetle in Cold Comfort Farm. PS: Wow, that woman works! I just looked her up at imdb.com and she's one busy broad!

[forever ago]

It was a terrible marriage, alas. Remus did not seem enthusiastic about Tonks. He was rather resistant and she seemed to come off as being too desperate to finally "have" him at (multiple) times. While Hermione also went to some extremes when it came to her chasing down Ron and getting him to open up about his feelings, there was evidence in J.K.'s writing of Ron's sincere interest for her.

The irony of it all is that they got together because of the whole Harry vs. Voldie situation and died together because of it too. It's the one couple better off killed in the books. I couldn't imagine them growing old happily together although I love characters when taken individually.

Indeed.

Also what pissed me off was that Tonks went from being a strong, independent female Auror to someone who was weak, distraught, and needy because of unrequited love. She started to remind me of Bella in the Twilight books. It's hard for me to believe that HBP!Tonks is the same character as OOTP!Tonks. :doh: Sure, Hermione shed a few tears over Ron, but she had good reason to (or at least, we know she did). Ginny cries over Harry at one point but it doesn't stop her from being awesome. Tonks just completely lost her shit and it was very, very grating.

[tehgoobster]

Do you suppose that's because the actress Miriam Margolyes is gay? :think: I was a little surprised to find that out, my first (and therefore most lasting) impression of her being in her role as Mrs. Beetle in Cold Comfort Farm. PS: Wow, that woman works! I just looked her up at imdb.com and she's one busy broad!

I mostly got the feeling from the books. I had no idea that that actress is gay until just now when you told me. :lol:

[Bellatrix]

Also what pissed me off was that Tonks went from being a strong, independent female Auror to someone who was weak, distraught, and needy because of unrequited love. She started to remind me of Bella in the Twilight books. It's hard for me to believe that HBP!Tonks is the same character as OOTP!Tonks. :doh: Sure, Hermione shed a few tears over Ron, but she had good reason to (or at least, we know she did). Ginny cries over Harry at one point but it doesn't stop her from being awesome. Tonks just completely lost her shit and it was very, very grating.

Exactly, it was worse than the effects of love potion. And it's always the girl-falls-for-boy method in Rowling's writing too, unfortunately. Hermione lusting after Ron, Ginny falling hard for her brother's best friend, Tonks being consumed by her obsessive love for Remus. The only notable exception is obviously Snape loving Lily terribly. But then again, he did not get the object of his lust & desire whereas the girls did...

I was a bit saddened to see the character of Tonks go from ultimate coolness with a bubbly, cuckoo personality to depression over a man she fell for (à la Bella, indeed). She lost her spunk right back then. That's the downside to some of Rowling's writing: she seems to almost always associate adulthood, growing mature with taking the sadness felt over unrequited love to quite some extremes. Same goes for Albus loving Gellert too, by the way. I guess we can play literature psychanalyst and simply deduce that it stems from the situation she was in when she began writing the series: she was a young mother by herself. She tried to make up for it in her books. She tries to make the characters ultimately get together and start a family together, staying together no matter what. She didn't even split Remus and Tonks (she could have killed off Tonks without the readers imagining Remus could not have found happiness again being a single father, for example), they left together. Sigh...

[forever ago]

Exactly, it was worse than the effects of love potion. And it's always the girl-falls-for-boy method in Rowling's writing too, unfortunately. Hermione lusting after Ron, Ginny falling hard for her brother's best friend, Tonks being consumed by her obsessive love for Remus. The only notable exception is obviously Snape loving Lily terribly. But then again, he did not get the object of his lust & desire whereas the girls did...

I was a bit saddened to see the character of Tonks go from ultimate coolness with a bubbly, cuckoo personality to depression over a man she fell for (à la Bella, indeed). She lost her spunk right back then. That's the downside to some of Rowling's writing: she seems to almost always associate adulthood, growing mature with taking the sadness felt over unrequited love to quite some extremes. Same goes for Albus loving Gellert too, by the way. I guess we can play literature psychanalyst and simply deduce that it stems from the situation she was in when she began writing the series: she was a young mother by herself. She tried to make up for it in her books. She tries to make the characters ultimately get together and start a family together, staying together no matter what. She didn't even split Remus and Tonks (she could have killed off Tonks without the readers imagining Remus could not have found happiness again being a single father, for example), they left together. Sigh...

But Hermione and Ginny's behavior IMO can be somewhat excused by the fact that they're teenagers, and Ginny does get over her extreme shyness around Harry. It's coming out of her shell and getting to know her better that makes Harry notice her and stop thinking of her as Ron's little sister. As for Hermione, Ron does say and do some really terrible things to Hermione, who is less than apt socially to deal with her best friend and crush being an asshole. She's a bit of a stereotypical nerd- she throws herself into her studies with little concern for much else (except, obviously, things that do really matter), and is deeply insecure not just about her grades but about... herself and her place in the world (being Muggle-born most likely didn't help matters). So in a sense she does depend on Ron (and Harry) because they accept her for who she is, and when they're assholes to her it hurts her a LOT. On the other hand, she's a very strong, independent, brave, and intelligent person. I can forgive Hermione and Ginny's Bella-ish behavior for those reasons, because their characters don't get completely derailed.

Tonks though? there's no excuse. She does get some of her coolness back in DH but then we only see her like, twice. :doh:

[Guest Anonymous]

We're forgetting that other fun couple, Bellatrix LeStrange and Voldemort. The vibe I got from Bellatrix is that she would have been only too happy to jump Voldemort's bones. I think Voldemort was asexual, as he didn't seem to be respond to either sex.

[Shirley MacLaine]

I was always worried for the gay wizarding kids. The wizarding dating pool is so tiny anyway...

[tehgoobster]

We're forgetting that other fun couple, Bellatrix LeStrange and Voldemort. The vibe I got from Bellatrix is that she would have been only too happy to jump Voldemort's bones. I think Voldemort was asexual, as he didn't seem to be respond to either sex.

Yes! I definitely got that vibe, too! I think Voldemort was mostly interested in conquering the world, but I've often wondered if he sometimes used Bellatrix to take care of his "needs." I think she was far more interested in him than he was in her, but she seemed more than willing to be with him. Like you, I don't think he was particularly interested in sex, but I wouldn't be surprised if he took Bellatrix up on her "offer" once in a while.

I've noticed that there are a few subtextual adult themes in the books, especially the last three. For example, I think that Dumbledore's homosexuality was subtly implied. He was a bachelor who was often described as being flamboyant. Then, of course, there was his relationship with Grindelwald. Also, I've always been under the impression that Dumbledore's sister was raped. Of course, all of this would go right over the heads of her younger readers, which is what I'm sure she intended.

[Guest Anonymous]

I've noticed that there are a few subtextual adult themes in the books, especially the last three. For example, I think that Dumbledore's homosexuality was subtly implied. He was a bachelor who was often described as being flamboyant. Then, of course, there was his relationship with Grindelwald. Also, I've always been under the impression that Dumbledore's sister was raped. Of course, all of this would go right over the heads of her younger readers, which is what I'm sure she intended.

That was my impression too, and it would also explain why Ariana Dumbledore's father attacked and "maimed" the three Muggle boys so violently. I always thought "maimed" was a euphemism for "castrated" (and even in fiction, it served the little bastards right).

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes! I definitely got that vibe, too! I think Voldemort was mostly interested in conquering the world, but I've often wondered if he sometimes used Bellatrix to take care of his "needs." I think she was far more interested in him than he was in her, but she seemed more than willing to be with him. Like you, I don't think he was particularly interested in sex, but I wouldn't be surprised if he took Bellatrix up on her "offer" once in a while.

I've noticed that there are a few subtextual adult themes in the books, especially the last three. For example, I think that Dumbledore's homosexuality was subtly implied. He was a bachelor who was often described as being flamboyant. Then, of course, there was his relationship with Grindelwald. Also, I've always been under the impression that Dumbledore's sister was raped. Of course, all of this would go right over the heads of her younger readers, which is what I'm sure she intended.

The impression I got of Dumbledore and Grindelwald, was that even after all the years and disasters, they still harbored affection for each other right up to the moments of their respective deaths. When Voldemort was interrogating Gellert, he wasn't just trying to keep Voldemort from getting his hands on the Elder Wand. Even though Albus was responsible for his incarceration, Grindelwald still harbored enough affection for him not to want Voldemort desecrating his grave to get the wand. Later, when Harry met Dumbledore again, face to face, and told him of Grindelwald's death at the hands of Voldemort, Dumbledore wept at the news.

[sacrilicious]

It was a terrible marriage, alas. Remus did not seem enthusiastic about Tonks. He was rather resistant and she seemed to come off as being too desperate to finally "have" him at (multiple) times. While Hermione also went to some extremes when it came to her chasing down Ron and getting him to open up about his feelings, there was evidence in J.K.'s writing of Ron's sincere interest for her.

The irony of it all is that they got together because of the whole Harry vs. Voldie situation and died together because of it too. It's the one couple better off killed in the books. I couldn't imagine them growing old happily together although I love characters when taken individually.

I thought JKR made it pretty obvious that he did love Tonks just as much, but he wanted to avoid exposing her (and later Teddy) to the discrimination and poverty he faced as a werewolf. Remember how in PoA his clothes were always worn and patched because he couldn't keep a job due to the prejudice against werewolves? I think there were some self-esteem issues for him as well, in that he got worn down by all of the discrimination over the years and he didn't think he deserved Tonks. All along she tried to tell him that she didn't care, but he thought he was doing the right thing by her.

Going back to the OP, what an awful bit of satire. I remember years ago being in a Christian bookstore and flipping through a book about Harry Potter. One of the arguments they used to show how evil the books were was that they made fun of fat people, using Uncle Vernon and Dudley as examples. They also didn't like the fact that it "made fun" of people with long necks (Aunt Petunia.) At that point I hadn't even read the HP series but I thought it was a seriously lame argument.

[Linnea]

The impression I got of Dumbledore and Grindelwald, was that even after all the years and disasters, they still harbored affection for each other right up to the moments of their respective deaths.

Um, you're confusing Grindelwald with Olivander, the wandmaker. Dumbledore killed Grindelwald in 1945. Maybe there was something between Dumbledore and Olivander, though . . .

Back to the subject of Christians who disapprove of the HP series: I wonder how many of them ever even found out about the plot of the seventh book, where someone

sacrifices his life for his friends, dies, and comes back to life.

Hmmm, where have I heard a story like that before?

[Soulhuntress]

That was my impression too, and it would also explain why Ariana Dumbledore's father attacked and "maimed" the three Muggle boys so violently. I always thought "maimed" was a euphemism for "castrated" (and even in fiction, it served the little bastards right).

I wondered about that one too. It makes sense in a late Victorian world (or earlier) that rape would be hushed up and elicit an enraged response as well as her being unable to do magic.