New NG series: "Polygamy USA."

[countressrascal]

Regarding what Hyrum does for a living now that he left the missionay program and has a new wife- at the present time he is working for the CP Construction company. He is trying to get on with the a ND company that many of the men are working for now. They leave the community for 3-4 weeks at a time work in the oil fields then come home for two weeks. They make very good money. Have not seen Ezra around for about a month so I think that he finally got on with the company. Arthur is paid by the community to run the missionary program, prior to his health issues he ran the CP Construction Company, his oldest son from his first wife is running it now.

On another note not everyone in CP are happy about the TV show, that is why I don't ask the ones that work for us anything about the people that are in the TV show. Out of 65 employees 21 live in CP. They keep teasing the Count about joining the community his comment is "I have hard time taking care of one wife why would I want anymore, you are only asking for more trouble"

[countressrascal]

Wow. Thank you so much for answering my questions! Although you might want to go back and bold your answers because at first glance it just looks like you are quoting.

I'm sure that is nice for the old ladies, not much of a life for the young widow. :(

I figured that having read several of the recent books on the FLDS, but I had hoped it had changed. Can the women not sue for custody? This has to be a large part of why the women stay sweet.

So no chance of moving out of their parent's house or saving up to buy their own home.

The good news is that they have figured out it is better for the women to be educated-- especially considering that more of the wives have to work now. It is amazing how deep the indoctrination goes if the women can go off to college and yet still prefer to come back home to a life as a plural wife.

I bolded the answers to the questions-thanks for letting me know that I did not do it the first time. Sorry about that.

Regarding the missionaries and money once they get married. If they serve for the year and are in good standing, CP will give them a lot to build thier first home on and help them do it. Hyrum got his Mother's house, which is very nice, that is one reason he got married so fast. Majority of them wait about 3 months, that is enough time to get the house ready to move in, they also have a number of starter houses for them to move into. Since there is no private ownership of the land, they all lease it from the church, house can reassigned as families get larger.

At the present time there are two custody cases going on, nothing to do with CP, they are CO City ones. We will have to wait to see how they work out.

[Chicken bones]

Just catching up on episodes...what a total asshole Cawley is for telling his wife to go back to work, during her birthday/yearly date!

I admit, the flat affect most of the more old-school CPs have is a little disturbing.

[Chicken bones]

Also, why does Arthur's house look like a rundown motel? Get those mission boys to paint it, Artie!

[Katiedarling]

Anyone know if this show has been renewed for another season on NatGeo? I can't get enough of it. It's miles better than those Sister Wives yokels on TLC. These folks actually seem to practice their faith beyond the polygamous lifestyle unlike Kody Brown and the Kodettes. For someone who has studied all aspects of Mormonism from the Joseph Smith advent up through the present Monson era- this show is like Christmas for me!

[ADoyle90815]

Anyone know if this show has been renewed for another season on NatGeo? I can't get enough of it. It's miles better than those Sister Wives yokels on TLC. These folks actually seem to practice their faith beyond the polygamous lifestyle unlike Kody Brown and the Kodettes. For someone who has studied all aspects of Mormonism from the Joseph Smith advent up through the present Monson era- this show is like Christmas for me!

I'm also one who is hoping this has been renewed for another season, as it's a far better show than Sister Wives on TLC. For me, the FLDS and other polygamist groups were my gateway fundies.

[Feberin]

I also find the show very different and far better then Sister Wives.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I got to thinking about money. First, who controls the community assets? Since all polygamists are excommunicated I don't imagine any of the tithing monies go to SLC, so it must stay in the community and it must be controlled by the Brethern. I have no doubt the money is used to buy land and build houses but there must be more to it than that. Why would some families live in virtual mansions and others live in shacks? Cawley can't be making that much money but his house is quite beautiful whereas Arthur's is run down. It just makes me wonder if they are given a house but then upgrading and upkeep are dependent on other factors.

Also it seems strange to me that after 20 years of tithe money coming in they still don't have enough to build a temple. Either they plan one hell of a fabulous marble and gold structure or else the money is going somewhere else. Why not build a little meeting house in the interim? Maybe this is where the NatGeo money is going to go.

Hyrum's wedding was in someone's house, but I remember the Cawley daughter's baptism. That was in a temple, right? Anybody remember what they said about that?

It strikes me that the community purse is controlled by a very few and probably no one questions where it is used. That is a situation ripe for abuse leading to a few families having all the goodies and other families out on the fringes which is exactly what happened with Short Creek. The Attorney General of Utah froze the UEP and is now in the process of distributing all of the assets.

The second thing that I was thinking about was the oil jobs that the young men are taking out of state. I can see the attraction of having good paying jobs that someone with little education can get, but no doubt these men are paying a very high price physically. These aren't the kind of jobs a man can do into his fifties yet as we have seen 50 year old men in this community still have young wives and lots of young children. Imagine Ezra 20 years down the road with three wives and 18 kids and no longer able to do manual labor because of a bad back and busted knees. Then what?

[lizziesmom]

The second thing that I was thinking about was the oil jobs that the young men are taking out of state. I can see the attraction of having good paying jobs that someone with little education can get, but no doubt these men are paying a very high price physically. These aren't the kind of jobs a man can do into his fifties yet as we have seen 50 year old men in this community still have young wives and lots of young children. Imagine Ezra 20 years down the road with three wives and 18 kids and no longer able to do manual labor because of a bad back and busted knees. Then what?

Ezra's wives all better plan on working too.

[Katiedarling]

I got to thinking about money. First, who controls the community assets? Since all polygamists are excommunicated I don't imagine any of the tithing monies go to SLC, so it must stay in the community and it must be controlled by the Brethern. I have no doubt the money is used to buy land and build houses but there must be more to it than that. Why would some families live in virtual mansions and others live in shacks? Cawley can't be making that much money but his house is quite beautiful whereas Arthur's is run down. It just makes me wonder if they are given a house but then upgrading and upkeep are dependent on other factors.

Also it seems strange to me that after 20 years of tithe money coming in they still don't have enough to build a temple. Either they plan one hell of a fabulous marble and gold structure or else the money is going somewhere else. Why not build a little meeting house in the interim? Maybe this is where the NatGeo money is going to go.

Hyrum's wedding was in someone's house, but I remember the Cawley daughter's baptism. That was in a temple, right? Anybody remember what they said about that?

It strikes me that the community purse is controlled by a very few and probably no one questions where it is used. That is a situation ripe for abuse leading to a few families having all the goodies and other families out on the fringes which is exactly what happened with Short Creek. The Attorney General of Utah froze the UEP and is now in the process of distributing all of the assets.

The second thing that I was thinking about was the oil jobs that the young men are taking out of state. I can see the attraction of having good paying jobs that someone with little education can get, but no doubt these men are paying a very high price physically. These aren't the kind of jobs a man can do into his fifties yet as we have seen 50 year old men in this community still have young wives and lots of young children. Imagine Ezra 20 years down the road with three wives and 18 kids and no longer able to do manual labor because of a bad back and busted knees. Then what?

The baptism took place in their meetinghouse. They've shown a lot of scenes in the meetinghouse- they are the scenes that show the 12 men in suits sitting up front with their faces blurred out. I can't speak to the specifics of the CP group's lack of a temple, but I do know that historically the polygamist LDS offshoot groups haven't placed a premium on having a temples due to a number of factors. A major one is up until the last 20 years, they were pursued more heavily by law enforcement and as a result the majority of their marriages happened in private homes and motels. Many of the polygamous marriages in Utah involve a single wife living with her children separately from other wives and children. They blend into society as single wives and mothers and even attend church as mainstream Mormons. Their husbands come and visit them occasionally. The polygamous compound life was more common in Mexico until the rise of Short Creek and the push for decriminalization. This has all played a big factor in a lack of temples for the polygamous groups. I imagine as they become more acceptable and less vulnerable to prosecution we will see more temple construction.

As far as the assets go- I thought the CP group allowed for the owning of one's own home, which was one major departure from the FLDS group they broke from. I was also under the impression that they didn't live the United Order in the same way that the FLDS did, which is why you saw a larger disparity in wealth among the CP group?

[lizzielouwho]

The baptism took place in their meetinghouse. They've shown a lot of scenes in the meetinghouse- they are the scenes that show the 12 men in suits sitting up front with their faces blurred out. I can't speak to the specifics of the CP group's lack of a temple, but I do know that historically the polygamist LDS offshoot groups haven't placed a premium on having a temples due to a number of factors. A major one is up until the last 20 years, they were pursued more heavily by law enforcement and as a result the majority of their marriages happened in private homes and motels. Many of the polygamous marriages in Utah involve a single wife living with her children separately from other wives and children. They blend into society as single wives and mothers and even attend church as mainstream Mormons. Their husbands come and visit them occasionally. The polygamous compound life was more common in Mexico until the rise of Short Creek and the push for decriminalization. This has all played a big factor in a lack of temples for the polygamous groups. I imagine as they become more acceptable and less vulnerable to prosecution we will see more temple construction.

As far as the assets go- I thought the CP group allowed for the owning of one's own home, which was one major departure from the FLDS group they broke from. I was also under the impression that they didn't live the United Order in the same way that the FLDS did, which is why you saw a larger disparity in wealth among the CP group?

I think you may be right about them owning their own homes. I looked at the tax records and there are different names on the houses. Although the plots of land have recurring names.

[lizzielouwho]

[ Cawley can't be making that much money but his house is quite beautiful whereas Arthur's is run down. It just makes me wonder if they are given a house but then upgrading and upkeep are dependent on other factors.

I wonder if it has something to do with Arther being a founding member. Maybe his house was built at the beginning when the people of the group may have put the money they had into purchasing the land and he just never rebuilt or moved. I do think they are getting the houses built at cost likely by the missionaries. When I lived out west the FLDS, both groups, were heavily involved in home construction. My husband was also involved in construction out there at the time and he knew who they were.

Also Cawley is a teacher or head of the technology department at the school. He may be getting paid more that Arther is as the leader of the missionaries.

[patsymae]

Cawley said that if he had to pay for what his first wife does, it would cost $60,000 a year, which is more than he makes.

[countressrascal]

I think you may be right about them owning their own homes. I looked at the tax records and there are different names on the houses. Although the plots of land have recurring names.

All the money stays in CP, since they are not part of the mainstream Mormon Church. They have built a large meeting house, which they have added on to a number of times, keep buying more land plus improvements on the lots ie: sewers, streets, and other ultities. That is one reason they have not bulid the Temple yet, also they have not been told to by whoever give them signs.

Individuals do not own the land the house sits on, they lease it from the Church for XX amount for a length of time. Members build their own houses which are in their names, however they can not sell them without approval from the Brethen. I can not speak to the condition of Arthur's house and why he had not upgraded since they moved there, everyone else did. There are about 7 or 8 of the orginal structures in CP, in the begining they used manufactured homes, they would just move in another modual as the family grew. As the members got more money they started building nice houses which was about 10-12 years ago. Maybe he just doesn't see a need to?

Regarding the management of the moneys-they have a professional corp set up seperate from the Brethen to manage their assets. CEO & CFO have MBA's their own corp attonery etc just like anyother corp, except they are all members and male. It does report directly to the Brethen.

[divadivine]

I forgot about being able to watch the previous episodes on Polygamy USA on "OnDemand." How silly of me! Anyhow, I'm watching from the beginning. Rose Marie did graduate high school and does have a job to help contribute money to the family. And, the women cannot get married until they are 18- because that is the law of the community.

The more I watch, the creepier Michael appears to me. He is just strange. He is so worried about getting Rose Marie married off, too. Probably because it would be one less mouth to feed, but he would also lose her monetary contribution to the family.

I didn't realize Hyrum's mother had died. Or that Hyrum is related to Arthur. I'm getting all caught up!

[patsymae]

This is fascinating, countess.

I'm curious, in lieu of what Michael's wife said, how they deal with taxes. Does he pay child support to the other mothers? Where I live, I think you have to pay it to the court and then the court passes it on. If a nonlegal wife works, is she taxed as a single head of household? Can he claim all of the children as dependents? Also, what about insurance? I'm thinking either they have their own kind of system, like the Amish do. If not, can they put all their children on their insurance policies, or just those of the legal wife?

[freethemall]

I finally just watched the first episode and a few clips from others, and this is after finishing book of Irene Spencer's books last week, Shattered Dreams and Cult Insanity. In light of that, it does kind of feel like this show is glorifying polygamy a little bit, especially with Isiaiah's family, living in that nice house and with nice clothes and going out to a nice meal. I know they mention financial problems, but then how do they like that when most polygamists live in poverty? Also, I think I saw one of his wives drinking wine, which surprised me. And the scene where they go out to eat and ask for a Mexican wife and Chinese wife is ridiculous, it doesn't show the reality of how much painful jealousy there is in that lifestyle. While the Brown "Sister Wives" irritate all of us, at least we see that there is a lot of tension there.

[darareaksmey]

I finally just watched the first episode and a few clips from others, and this is after finishing book of Irene Spencer's books last week, Shattered Dreams and Cult Insanity. In light of that, it does kind of feel like this show is glorifying polygamy a little bit, especially with Isiaiah's family, living in that nice house and with nice clothes and going out to a nice meal. I know they mention financial problems, but then how do they like that when most polygamists live in poverty? Also, I think I saw one of his wives drinking wine, which surprised me. And the scene where they go out to eat and ask for a Mexican wife and Chinese wife is ridiculous, it doesn't show the reality of how much painful jealousy there is in that lifestyle. While the Brown "Sister Wives" irritate all of us, at least we see that there is a lot of tension there.

I'm thinking we have not yet begun to see the tension that we will see in this series, if it goes on awhile. Marlene and Becca, the youngest multi-wives so far, seem to be gritting their teeth somewhat to look nice for the show. And I think the real tensions will surface when someone super-young like Kellie finds it's time to welcome a new woman to the fold. She's been raised that way, she saw her mom deal with it, she believes it's necessary for the sake of everyone's soul...but suddenly it's happening to her.

[countressrascal]

This is fascinating, countess.

I'm curious, in lieu of what Michael's wife said, how they deal with taxes. Does he pay child support to the other mothers? Where I live, I think you have to pay it to the court and then the court passes it on. If a nonlegal wife works, is she taxed as a single head of household? Can he claim all of the children as dependents? Also, what about insurance? I'm thinking either they have their own kind of system, like the Amish do. If not, can they put all their children on their insurance policies, or just those of the legal wife?

Nonlegal wives are taxed "Single Head of Household", majority of the 2nd onward wives and children are on state insurance unless they work for a company that offers medical insurance. Also as a "Single Head of Household" they also quailify for food stamps and earned tax credit. They take whatever fedreral aid they can to support their lifestyle. It is called "Bleeding the Beast" CP does not abuse the system like CO City does.

I can not answer the question regarding child support.

[mrs]

OH, wow. The TWOP "Polygamy, USA" thread just blow my mind.

BeHonest writes,

The whole community is made up of cliques and family alliances.

Hyrum's dad is a church leader, his mother is Arthur's sister. So Hyrum is connected on both sides.

Hyrum's last name is Timpson as was Beca "Thompsons" before she got married.

Hyrum's dad and Beca's dad are brothers.

Hyrum and Beca dated for a while, got caught doing "physical things" and were re-baptized.

Then Beca was "inspired" to marry Isaiah.

Or in other words after being re-baptized and getting caught, turned herself in and was placed probably out of emberassment and a lot of pressure from her family.

Source:forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3218471-polygamy-usa/page-9

I think Becca and Hyrum would have made a better couple, then Hyrum and Kelli.

[Cora Persephona]

OH, wow. The TWOP "Polygamy, USA" thread just blow my mind.

BeHonest writes,

Source:forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/3218471-polygamy-usa/page-9

I think Becca and Hyrum would have made a better couple, then Hyrum and Kelli.

Makes me wonder why she wasn't "inspired" to marry Hyrum in the first place. Do we know anything about the number of marriages between relatives in this community?

[mrs]

Makes me wonder why she wasn't "inspired" to marry Hyrum in the first place. Do we know anything about the number of marriages between relatives in this community?

The commenter "BeHonest" on the TWOP board claims to be related to FLDS and the families featured on the show. She has also, commented about the family ties within the community.

[Cora Persephona]

The commenter "BeHonest" on the TWOP board claims to be related to FLDS and the families featured on the show. She has also, commented about the family ties within the community.

Yes, I was just reading the link. It seems intermarriage doesn't bother them and how could it considering that they isolate themselves. From this point of view I can't fault Becca for marrying into "new" blood.

[laura oz]

Dang, I was checking this thread to see if BeHonest had come here yet. I have oodles of questions, but only lurk at TWOP.

[Katiedarling]

Dang, I was checking this thread to see if BeHonest had come here yet. I have oodles of questions, but only lurk at TWOP.

Me too! I really want to hear more!