Lanier steps down from YLCF

[silvia]

ylcf.org/2011/07/so-long-farewell

I feel like I might've seen this coming. This is pure speculation on my part, but Lanier doesn't seem like quite the same Ezzo-loving, courtship-advocating, legalistic breed of Christian as, say, Gretchen. She hasn't contributed much to the site for a while, either.

[hoipolloi]

Agree this isn't a huge surprise. She's had some long gaps in posting in the time she's been on the board so I've wondered if she'd already parted ways with YLCF.

She's always seemed so High Church, too, what with her elaborate Christmas festivities and so on, that I didn't quite see how she fit in with the rest of YLCF board, who -- to my heathen eyes -- seemed to be pretty Calvinist.

[bea]

Was she the last of the "old guard?" I think she was. The original crew was Gretchen (now mother of three, assisting husband in farming, and assisting in-laws in store), Natalie (going thru 2nd divorce, single mom to infant son, in paralegal school, writing several books and attending an Orthodox Church), and Lanier (running a bookstore and caring for a farm).

I guess life is more complicated than reading uplifting books and thinking pure thoughts, as it turns out.

[silvia]

I just started a topic on this below (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1567). Should we merge the threads?

[bea]

I would be happy to merge them.....I just don't know how! :doh:

[darkplumaged]

Lanier is, or should be, beyond the "encouraging young maidens" stage--excuse me, season--anyway. She looks young, but she's actually about 37. She hasn't had children, so I imagine that YLCF seems more irrelevant to her as time goes by.

[silvia]

Me neither! Maybe one of the mods can help?

[bea]

I think she was the last of the original YLCF blog crew, right? Gretchen started it, then Natalie took it over, then Ashleigh was around for about a year, and Lanier was the "official mentor and encourager" (WTF, guys, "encourager" isn't even a real word) during most of Natalie's time.

I'm not a huge fan of Lanier's overly-ornate flowery prose, but I"m kind of sorry to see her go. The new writers for YLCF aren't nearly as talented as the previous crowd.

[silvia]

Yes, I think Gretchen is the last of the old guard left. She'll probably stick with it for a while, since the whole site was basically her brainchild in the first place.

On a slightly different note, I find it interesting how the YLCF has been publishing lately about how 20-year-olds don't know nearly as much as they think they do (ylcf.org/2011/07/things-i-am-still-learning-that-i-wish-i-knew-at-20/), given that the site's original writers were a couple of firebrand SAHDs around that age, and that the site continues to espouse many of the same extreme ideals as it did at the outset. (This despite the fact that one of said firebrands [Natalie] has now gone through her second divorce and publicly renounced parent-led courtship and other ideals she once promoted.)

Just speculating, again, but I think the "Things I am still learning..." piece, though not by Gretchen, may reflect an important part of Gretchen's inner life. I get the sense that she may have private questions and doubts about the lifestyle YLCF promotes, but is reluctant to recant much of her previous writing and thereby confuse the young ladies her site aims to "encourage." As Bethany Patchin could tell you, it's rough being a teenage Christian wunderkind with an Internet soapbox and then growing into a more complex adult identity.

[bea]

That's part of why I find YLCF so fascinating and, frankly, troubling. The "brand" espouses these values and lifestyles covertly - hosting a courtship stories page, writing all these entries about how wonderful being at home is, etc. They don't seem to realize that they're endorsing these ideas to the many YLCF-girl wannabes.

It amazes me that while the YLCF "girls" - Gretchen and Natalie, most notably - have grown up and realized that life is a hell of a lot more complex than they'd thought, the site remains the same beacon of SAHD submissive bullshit that it always was.

Frankly, I don't read it much anymore. The current writing on the site is insipid and dull. I might have thought Gretchen, Natalie et al were glorifying a way of life that they weren't even living, but at least they could write.

[silvia]

The "brand" espouses these values and lifestyles covertly - hosting a courtship stories page, writing all these entries about how wonderful being at home is, etc. They don't seem to realize that they're endorsing these ideas to the many YLCF-girl wannabes.

I hadn't put my finger on it, but that's exactly right. Maybe the YLCF team members are telling themselves that they're not explicitly endorsing anything, just telling stories. Trouble is, those stories are so suffused with artificial rose-colored light that they essentially serve as recruiting tools into the SAHD/ patriarchal/ submissive wife/ parent-led courtship movement.

[onlyorganic]

I don't get that site at all. If modesty is so darn important, why is it okay to post a boastful story of how God answered your prayers and sent Bobby Joe to be your husband, thus confirming that the teenage jitters you felt upon seeing a cute guy were really God the Father pulling your heart in the right direction to be his helpmeet? It's like those people who say a miracle can be hot dog buns on sale, trying to prove how God is constantly smiling down on them... I think those courtship stories are pretentious and self-serving. It also sets an example to all those young girls that this is what they should strive to be...a godly wife, with a perfect virtuous courtship and marriage. Not everyone's life is cookie-cutter and some people are outside of the box. I think the courtship stories set expectations that can't always be realized. And maybe it's just me, but I read some of them and want to vomit... honestly, I feel some of them are just as trashy and lovesick as a forbidden Nicholas Sparks' novel. I think they could be glorifying God by doing things other than writing about how they saw each other and knew it was love at first sight... thus confirmed when the cows got out of the barn and the future couple had to round them up together with an escort... that was God showing his favor by giving them a glimpse of each others' hearts. /barf.

[Petals]

Frankly, I don't read it much anymore. The current writing on the site is insipid and dull. I might have thought Gretchen, Natalie et al were glorifying a way of life that they weren't even living, but at least they could write.

Agreed. Although I've abandoned the ideology that YLCF covertly endorses, I would probably still read them if the current writing wasn't so terrible. The good writers are moving on, as they should.

Just speculating, again, but I think the "Things I am still learning..." piece, though not by Gretchen, may reflect an important part of Gretchen's inner life. I get the sense that she may have private questions and doubts about the lifestyle YLCF promotes, but is reluctant to recant much of her previous writing and thereby confuse the young ladies her site aims to "encourage." As Bethany Patchin could tell you, it's rough being a teenage Christian wunderkind with an Internet soapbox and then growing into a more complex adult identity.

I get the feeling, too, that Gretchen, Natalie, and Lanier, and Ashley have moved onto a more complex view of the world, but are too afraid of the controversy that would inevitably ensue if they owned up on the site.

[silvia]

Well, Natalie has definitely moved on, lol. If you didn't catch the infamous dictionary-length "courtship stories" thread on the old board, check it out: http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/4343/Courtship-stories. Natalie jumps in to start answering questions around page 21, and there's a cameo appearance from Ashleigh at the end. :)

[Petals]

Well, Natalie has definitely moved on, lol. If you didn't catch the infamous dictionary-length "courtship stories" thread on the old board, check it out: http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/4343/Courtship-stories. Natalie jumps in to start answering questions around page 21, and there's a cameo appearance from Ashleigh at the end. :)

Yes, I caught that. However, neither Natalie nor any of the other YLCF-ers have addressed the changes in their ideologies on their respective websites, or anywhere other than free jinger. If they feel they were wrong, I wish they would inform their audience. Otherwise, it is misleading.

[bea]

I think it's misleading too. I mean, none of them owe the Strangers of the Internet an explanation, but when you've been covertly endorsing a certain way of life and a certain way of doing things and you've discovered that it doesn't work and, what's more, may lead to spectacular trouble......and you just drop out of sight? I think it's dishonest to say "Oh, well, my life is private" when you've been living your life publicly for so long and serving as an example to so many young women. I also think that claiming you don't endorse courtship when more than half your site is courtship stories is, at best, disingenuous.

Natalie uses a different name now - she was Nyquist, then Klein, then Nyquist again, then Ference, and now she's online under the name Natalie M. Jacobs. I understand that she wants to distance herself from her former life, but I find it kind of disquieting that she's taking on a whole other identity (single Orthodox mom in Chicago) without addressing the fact that previously, she was someone entirely different. I wonder what the "maidens" who followed her from YLCF to PursueTheBeauty think about it.

I've always been fascinated by the YLCF crowd, mostly because everything seemed SO perfect for them. Maybe because I was older than them by about ten years, I have to admit that I was waiting for real life to smack one or all of them in the face. I wanted to see what they'd do. Unfortunately, the ones who did have a stiff shot of real life have elected not to even mention it in passing on the site. Pity. I think there's a lot of "girls" who could benefit from one or all of the YLCF team members publicly saying that things don't always work out the way you plan them to, regardless of whether you do things the "right" way. Life is hard. Relationships are hard. Marriage, children, running a home, living a financially independent life, these are all really easy to do perfectly in your head. Doing them in reality is much harder. Some people fail at one or all of these things, and that's okay. It doesn't mean God loves you any less.

[silvia]

I agree -- it would be great if they could come clean, especially in forums where their former followers are likely to see their writing. I believe Natalie eventually may (apparently she's been working on a series called "When Courtship Is Not Best"), but it may take a while, since she's still recovering from all the horrible stuff that happened to her. I do think, though, that giving guidance to young women based on the invaluable lessons she's learned could be an important way she could help heal herself.

I doubt Ashleigh will come out guns blazing against any of what YLCF stands for any time in the near future, especially since she and Gretchen seem to be BFFs. And to be fair to Gretchen, her more recent blog entries on the Little Pink House site often allude to how difficult it is to raise children and run a home and how mommies need Jesus every second, etc. (She still seems to portray her husband as this idealized manly man, though, and her marriage as idyllic.)

[Shirley MacLaine]

This despite the fact that one of said firebrands [Natalie] has now gone through her second divorce and publicly renounced parent-led courtship and other ideals she once promoted.)

Ooh, does someone have a link for more info on this? Curiosity piqued.

[silvia]

Ooh, does someone have a link for more info on this? Curiosity piqued.

Check out the old courtship stories thread I linked above -- start around page 21. Natalie talks about what happened in her and James' marriage, which was her second (they were separated at the time of the thread, but now I believe divorce proceedings are underway). She also states unequivocally that she is no longer pro-courtship.

[bea]

The thing is, though, that she HASN'T publicly renounced it. She said on FJ, under a username that's not her real name, that she no longer believes in courtship. She's said on her non-YLCF blog that she was going to write something on courtship not being best, but has apparently abandoned blogging in favor of book proposals. Which is FINE, you know? She's been through a lot and she gets to decide what she wants to be public about. The thing for me, though, is that the YLCF crew's writings on courtship and submission, etc. were SO public - so why are the failures and pitfalls and heartbreak suddenly considered private issues?

Ashleigh is another one whose silence on the matter is a little troubling, for me. She went through a parent-led courtship to happily marry a seemingly really nice guy, and then her dad left her mom for the woman he was having an affair with and her parents went through a divorce and it seems to have rocked Ashleigh's world. Apparently Daddy did not, in fact, know best. Her mom keeps a blog of her own and seems happily remarried. But was this mentioned at all on YLCF? The fact that families that look perfect from the outside can often fall apart just as easily as the ones that look flawed? Not a word of it. Ashleigh's husband, a Marine, has done two tours of duty in the Middle East. She's had to be, essentially, a single mom for each deployment. Anything on YLCF about managing on your own? About budgeting, running a house, finances, what to do when your parents divorce? Nope.

The only one who seems to have actually had things turn out according to the script is Gretchen. And even then, she's had to deal with a husband in the hospital, three closely-spaced pregnancies, toxemia, morning sickness, money trouble, and other things that don't happen in the books. None of it got written about for YLCF, of course, only on her personal blog.

I just.....what the HELL, ladies? You can pen screeds about the wonders of courtship and marriage and children and being submissive to your parents, but you can't ever say that maybe it doesn't always work the way it's supposed to? I guess the theory is always public, but the practice? That's private.

[hoipolloi]

Excellent summary of the problems with YLCF, Bea. It's like a religious Ponzi scheme.

Hopefully, young women who are looking into the "virtues" YLCF peddles will use their Google skillz to find out a bit more.

[silvia]

Ashleigh is another one whose silence on the matter is a little troubling, for me. She went through a parent-led courtship to happily marry a seemingly really nice guy, and then her dad left her mom for the woman he was having an affair with and her parents went through a divorce and it seems to have rocked Ashleigh's world. Apparently Daddy did not, in fact, know best. Her mom keeps a blog of her own and seems happily remarried. But was this mentioned at all on YLCF? The fact that families that look perfect from the outside can often fall apart just as easily as the ones that look flawed? Not a word of it. Ashleigh's husband, a Marine, has done two tours of duty in the Middle East. She's had to be, essentially, a single mom for each deployment. Anything on YLCF about managing on your own? About budgeting, running a house, finances, what to do when your parents divorce? Nope.

I know Ashleigh and Gretchen have some differences of opinion in their religious outlook/ practice, and I can't help but wonder if that's why Ashleigh went "inactive" on YLCF for a while. Yeah, I think her thoughts on how to deal with deployment, divorce, and broken families would be very apropos for a younger audience and could add some substance to YLCF's current mix of pretty-on-the-surface stories. YLCF is always posting pieces about how to make the most of your singleness, etc., but the thing that might actually help pining single girls the most is reading stories that prove it's not worth it to make marriage or children an idol -- that these phases of life come with as many difficulties as any other. Ashleigh and any other writers up for more honesty could really bring that point home.

[Petals]

Fabulous writeup, bea. I agree completely.

[silvia]

Update: sounds like Ashleigh's officially stepped down from YLCF, too: ylcf.org/2011/08/looking-back-looking-forward/

[Guest Anonymous]

Update: sounds like Ashleigh's officially stepped down from YLCF, too: ylcf.org/2011/08/looking-back-looking-forward/

ah, I am so not surprised.