Parental Notification Bill

[BelieveinScience]

Does anyone know anything about this bill that was passed in Montana? I can't find anything on its specifics that's not biased or not ina complex legal jargon.

The basic I've gathered is that now parents are notified by doctors 48hrs if a minor 16 and under wants an abortion.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/11/07/mont ... -abortion/

LR-120 would require an abortion practitioner to notify a parent of a girl younger than age 16 before performing an abortion.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2 ... bortions-0

The notification must be done 48 hours before an abortion is performed, or the physician will be fined $500 and receive a six month jail sentence.

In a statement, Nancy Northup, president and CEO at the Center for Reproductive Rights, said:

“This new law is not only clearly unconstitutional under Montana’s state constitution, it will no doubt put the state’s most vulnerable young women—who are already faced with difficult or even dangerous circumstances—at even greater risk.

Those who are 16 or older will not be required to notify their parents. Anti-choice advocates in Montana attempted to pass a similar bill in 1995 that actually required a higher bar—parental consent for all minors seeking abortion—but this was struck down as unconstitutional. By limiting the age to 16 years of age and younger, anti-choice politicians hope the bill would pass a court challenge.

According to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention in 2008 only 43 girls under the age of 16 received abortions in Montana, the most recent data available

[NotALoserLikeYou]

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/mo ... rtion-law/

Notice will not be required, however, if there is a medical emergency, if notice is waived by a youth in court in a sealed proceeding or if it is waived by the parent or guardian.

Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/mo ... z2BaB4t6CP

[Minerva]

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/montana-passes-parental-notification-abortion-law/

That's pretty typical of parental consent laws. They still suck, of course. I hope it gets challenged - imagine having to plead your case to a judge in order to have a simple medical procedure.

[BelieveinScience]

I really don't like this bill. I don't like that the parents get notified it just seems so so wrong for minors who have abusive parents.

[roddma]

I really don't like this bill. I don't like that the parents get notified it just seems so so wrong for minors who have abusive parents.

I don't know of any surgical procedures on minors done without parents or guardian consent. You never know what may happen. They could bleed to death or have serious side-effects without anyone knowing what happened.

However, you are right in cases of abuse. There is always a possibility of incest, rape, or statutory rape cases. Maybe instead of requiring only parents, a close relative can be notified or another trusted adult.

[roddma]

But I don't think this has nothing to do with choice but age of consent laws. Here in Tennnesse 12 and under can not consent to sex. We had a case with my neighbor that made headlines. She was fooling with three guys 4 or more years older and became pregnant which is child and statutory rape charges regardless if she consented. They aborted. If there were no consent laws or DNA, I believe these thugs would have gotten away with it.

[Rosa]

I wish Harriet J hadn't scrubbed her blog (iirc she did it for job reasons - she works in a social work or law field and had to worry about confidentiality & professionalism issues after a promotion). But she had an AWESOME post about parental notification and what the fuck was wrong with it.

Starting with, yes: abusive parents. But also just that any girl who doesn't want to tell her parents probably has a really good reason, and the workaround process where it exists is so complex and time-consuming (how about having to track down an absent/disappeared parent? Who may be in another country?) that combined with other limits on abortion (# of weeks, cost) it basically makes abortion impossible without parental support - not just passive noninterference, but active consent.

[Sunnichick31]

From the Billings news (pre-election)

ktvq.com/mobile/news/montana-campaign-issues-lr-120-underage-abortions/

I can see the point about how a teenager needs parental permission for an ear piercing, so why not a surgery, but I also see the point about abusive parents and bad situations. Not sure where I stand on this.

As seen on the ballot- (from the Bozeman Daily Chronicle)

bozemandailychronicle.com/news/elections/2012/electionstats/race_b93f38b2-1325-11e2-bb6a-0019bb2963f4.html

Ill try to look for better articles later, I'm tired and want to get to bed! Ill try to talk to my friends back home too and see what they think of it. Most are in the middle, maybe slightly liberal, so there won't be any interesting opinions lol.

ETA- everything says that notice is required, does that mean the parent has to consent, or just that they need to know about it?

[dairyfreelife]

I don't know of any surgical procedures on minors done without parents or guardian consent. You never know what may happen. They could bleed to death or have serious side-effects without anyone knowing what happened.

However, you are right in cases of abuse. There is always a possibility of incest, rape, or statutory rape cases. Maybe instead of requiring only parents, a close relative can be notified or another trusted adult.

I think is tough. It can be a problem with abusive cases and scared teens, but yet I personally would not like the idea of surgery performed on my minor child without my consent. But then again, if I had a teenage daughter who wanted an abortion, I would allow it. Not every parent would I know. In my state, anyone under 14 cannot legally consent to sex and anyone under 16 with someone over 18 is considered statutory rape. So I'm sort of in-between on this issue. In some ways I feel it's like any procedure and having surgery performed on a child without a parents' knowledge makes me uneasy when I think of myself and if I had a child. In other ways I can see where this is touchy because sex in teenagers and teenage pregnancy is taboo and I know I would not have wanted to admit I was pregnant as a teenager to my parents, but my parents were very conservative and had a tendency to react before even trying to be a little understanding. Though I know my father would have gladly consented to an abortion, so I'm not sure how I would have dealt with such a situation. I never really thought about it since it wasn't an issue, so I was lucky there. There's a lot of problems to consent in these cases and if it's a rape/incest in the family situation, trying to get an abortion as a minor needing parent consent when maybe a parent is an abuser or wants to cover up the abuse makes it very difficult for obvious reasons.

[kb2]

In a lot of states, teenagers and sexual health are treated separately when it comes to consent and informing parents. Parents aren't always required to be notified when a teen needs treatment for an STD, for instance. And a pregnant teen girl gives consent for all procedures that occur during her pregnancy, like for a C-section. Then she will be the one (or also a teen father) to give consent for treatment of the baby, even if she remains underage and her parents need to give consent for her to receive non-pregnancy related medical care. So to require parents to be informed of an abortion--when there is no requirement of their being informed of a birth or miscarriage--can be seen as incongruous.

[Rosa]

well, and you don't need consent of BOTH parents for most things, right? Some parental consent laws require both, and that is an issue for lots and lots of kids, especially for something as time-sensitive as abortion.

There's an underlying assumption that pregnancy/parenthood make you a de facto adult, the way marriage does legally in a lot of ways. Age of consent laws can prevent marriages, but not pregnancies, so it's more complicated. But if an underage girl has a baby, she is going to be a pregnant far into her majority.

[Trynn]

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue either. One thing that comes to mind, however, is that, if I was a young teen, pregnant, scared of my parents (in my case I'm imagining religious parents) and I couldn't get an abortion without their consent, and I know they would not only not give it, but also publicize to their church and to everybody I know that I was a "slut who got pregnant" and publicly humiliating me for the rest of my life, you bet your ass that I would FIND a way to abort the baby myself, and that could be a helluva lot more dangerous than just getting an abortion in the first place.

[Deleted03]

I think parents should not have to give consent or be notified of abortion procedures. Either you have a good relationship with your kid and you trust your child to come to you, or you don't. If your does not feel like it can come to you for that kind of thing, well to a certain extent it's too bad for you. Work on a better relationship. Teenagers can make decisions about their sexual health and I don't think their parents should be notified.

Question: if a doctor treats an 11 yo for pregnancy... isn't there a mandatory report to authorities that there is under age of consent sex? I'd imagine that most doctors would find ways and work hard at providing help to that person.

[Maggie Mae]

I prefer the Parental Notification to Parental Consent, Because a child's belief system should be kept separate from their parents. We have a parental notification/consent bill under judicial review in my state, and the last I heard the judge ruled it constitutional but removed all incentive to actually follow it, as in there are no penalties for non-compliance.

It's hard for me to reconcile the idea of the 13 year old being forced to give birth and keep the baby because the parents feel they have some sort of right with the idea that a 13 year old could, under the same law, choose to keep it because baby. I mean, I imagine if my (hypothetical) 13 year old was pregnant I'd try to make her have the procedure, regardless of her belief system, because she's thirteen and wouldn't have the background that I have in matters of pregnancy. But I wouldn't want my kid to have to go through that alone. And I fully understand that in abuse situations or parental abandonment, things are going to be different. And I don't know how to reconcile the often cited example of how schools can not hand out over the counter medication but apparently girls can go have surgery. There are no other medical procedures other than life-saving ones that can be done on a minor without parental permission.

[Minerva]

I've always been of the opinion that children's safety comes before parental rights. Parental notification laws have been shown to cause teenage girls to self-abort, which is dangerous and can be deadly.

You want to be aware of your daughter's medical info? Build a good relationship with her and hope for the best, because your right to know is NOT more important than teenagers' right to safety. Besides, if she doesn't want you to know, a parental notification law won't help you, it'll only make the process more traumatic as she pleads her case to a judge.

I also think parental rights are irrelevant to parental consent laws. You don't have the right to stop your daughter from having an abortion, so your permission is unnecessary. You may have the right to know if she's having an abortion, but her and her peers' right to safety has to come first.

[2xx1xy1JD]

These laws are dangerous.

You have no idea what is going on in these homes. I think it's a safe bet, though, that girls who have been abused or exposed to abuse, who have parents who did not provide them with proper sex education, and/or parents with whom they do not have a good relationship will be over-represented among pregnant teens under 16.

It's an age when parent-child conflict tends to be high, and when teens tend to react emotionally, and when they are risk-takers. If a teen is thinking, "OMG my mom/dad will kill me if they find out I got pregnant", they are more likely to do something insanely stupid, like taking pills or trying to injure themselves or trying to self-abort.

There are ways around concerns. You can have rules that the products of conception be handed over to police for DNA testing, or that medical records be obtained prior to surgery to make sure that there is no pre-existing medical condition that could cause complications.

[valsa]

I don't think that parents should have to be notified or give consent for a minor to get an abortion.

If the girl has the baby (almost certainly requiring medical treatment), she isn't required to give notice or get consent from her parents to do so. If she makes an adoption plan for the child, she doesn't have to notify or be given consent by her parents for that either. Why should abortion be different?

I would like to see there be advocates for minor girls getting abortions, but only to assess how the pregnancy came about (rape, incest, etc) and to see if problems with birth control and other protection (lack of information about them, lack of access, pressure from sexual partner not to use it, etc) can be worked out to prevent not only future pregnancy but also STDs. However, I would hope the medical professionals involved with performing the abortion would cover at least some of that with the girl.

[nolongerIFBx]

It's hard for me to reconcile the idea of the 13 year old being forced to give birth and keep the baby because the parents feel they have some sort of right with the idea that a 13 year old could, under the same law, choose to keep it because baby. I mean, I imagine if my (hypothetical) 13 year old was pregnant I'd try to make her have the procedure, regardless of her belief system, because she's thirteen and wouldn't have the background that I have in matters of pregnancy.

But that is forcing your belief on her just as much as the parent who refusees to allow the 13 year old to have an abortion. If it is her choice, it's her choice regardless of your opinion of her ability to make the right choice.

[Maggie Mae]

But that is forcing your belief on her just as much as the parent who refuses to allow the 13 year old to have an abortion. If it is her choice, it's her choice regardless of your opinion of her ability to make the right choice.

Hence, my inability to come up with anything more substantial then "i don't know."

[BravaAmica]

I don't know of any surgical procedures on minors done without parents or guardian consent. You never know what may happen. They could bleed to death or have serious side-effects without anyone knowing what happened.

However, you are right in cases of abuse. There is always a possibility of incest, rape, or statutory rape cases. Maybe instead of requiring only parents, a close relative can be notified or another trusted adult.

Well, if that's the case, inform the parents after the abortion. Wouldn't that protect the girl's right to choose an abortion in addition to keeping parents informed about any medical prodecures?

[Minerva]

Well, if that's the case, inform the parents after the abortion. Wouldn't that protect the girl's right to choose an abortion in addition to keeping parents informed about any medical prodecures?

The problem with parental notification laws is that girls who don't feel safe with their parents knowing will either get a judicial bypass or have an unsafe abortion. Telling the parents after as opposed to before the procedure won't make those girls any safer, and therefore won't stop them from seeking bypasses or unsafe abortions. It'll keep parents from physically stopping their daughters from having the abortion, but that's it.

2xx1xy1JD named a couple ways of checking on girls' safety without involving their parents. A bit of creative thinking is all it takes to see that the fears parental notification laws rely on aren't necessary.

The fact is that parental notification laws aren't about keeping girls safe - they're no better than alternatives such as 2xx1xy1JD's in the best of cases, and in the worst of cases they actively endanger girls. These laws are part of a wider anti-abortion strategy that has the goal of making abortion less and less accessible. Anti-choice groups will admit to that.

[Trynn]

Well, if that's the case, inform the parents after the abortion. Wouldn't that protect the girl's right to choose an abortion in addition to keeping parents informed about any medical prodecures?

That would almost be worse. Then the parents could tell the whole church and everyone in the girl's sphere of influence that "my daughter is not only a slut, she's a MURDERER!!!!!!!!"

It could devastate someone.

[Rosa]

Or they will have babies in secret and dump them in the trash. This is not unheard of, and it's almost always because the girl was afraid to tell anyone.

[emmiedahl]

I have said before that I have mixed feelings. And I still do. I cannot imagine my child being afraid to tell me something like this, but teenagers are strange people sometimes and hesitant to admit mistakes.

I would rather my daughter get an abortion without my knowledge than try to have an unsafe and illegal one. I would rather she get an abortion without my knowledge than hide the pregnancy and live in denial until it is so late in the pregnancy that her options are restricted. I would rather she get an abortion without my knowledge than secretly give birth and abandon the baby in an unsafe location. So, as much as I would like to be informed about her general health and be there to support her, if that was not an option in her POV then an abortion should still be an option.

This is why I keep condoms and a morning after pill in the teenager's bathroom and replenish as needed without comment. Heaven forbid that my child be faced with this type of situation.