Rant of Rage: People Can't be Racist Against Whites

[lilwriter85]

I read an interview several years ago that Liz Murray gave. Liz a well known motivational speaker. She was homeless as a teenager in NYC and she later attended Harvard. She talked about in incident that happened when she was or 10 or 11i n which she was placed in a group home that was predominately black. She was bullied for a being white several times.

[theologygeek]

Mine did- during both WWI and WWII German speaking Americans were highly discrimnated against. I don't know what my great grandmother (a Dunker) went through, but one of my college profs, also an Anabaptist, said that they had firebombs thrown through their church windows and were called names. It's why very few Anabaptist groups still speak German as their main language. Because many Anabaptist churches were associated with German speaking people, they were also discriminated against.

Also, as others have said, white Muslims face discrimination.

And I have been selling stuff all day, so I haven't had time to keep up with this thread.

The Germans had it worse than the Italians. They were hated.

[MyNameIsJonas]

The OP asked how many times whites were denied jobs. Not only were they denied jobs, but they are still denied admission to some schools.

That isn't racism. The school did not deny the child because they said that they think black kids are smarter and better and they like them more. The government has tried to patch up the gaping wound of institutionalized racism with the bandage of affirmative action. They're not denying a white child based on how they feel about him, but based on the fact that he started the video game of life with 5 lives and the black kids in his neighborhood only started out with two. It isn't fair, but neither is the black kid's lot in life. It's the system's failed response to the problem they created.

[theologygeek]

That isn't racism. The school did not deny the child because they said that they think black kids are smarter and better and they like them more. The government has tried to patch up the gaping wound of institutionalized racism with the bandage of affirmative action. They're not denying a white child based on how they feel about him, but based on the fact that he started the video game of life with 5 lives and the black kids in his neighborhood only started out with two. It isn't fair, but neither is the black kid's lot in life. It's the system's failed response to the problem they created.

She asked how many whites were denied jobs because of their skin color. My friend's son was denied education because of his skin color. She did not ask how many were denied jobs because of how people felt about them, although the Italians were denied jobs because people did not like them when they first came here.

[MyNameIsJonas]

If you are born white in America, (like being born straight, male, or able-bodied) you get bonus points. That's it. But programs that choose minorities first are not racist. This explains better than I ever could: http://www.agjohnson.us/glad/is-affirma ... on-racist/

Are you suffering prejudice and discrimination today because of your Italian heritage?

[Anxious Girl]

Again, I apologize for not realizing there was such a thing as individual racism. I should have explained that my original purpose of my rant was supposed to be that I'm tired of people who say that America is past institutional racism completely.

[theologygeek]

If you are born white in America, (like being born straight, male, or able-bodied) you get bonus points. That's it. But programs that choose minorities first are not racist. This explains better than I ever could: http://www.agjohnson.us/glad/is-affirma ... on-racist/

Are you suffering prejudice and discrimination today because of your Italian heritage?

I was told to get my white ass out of New Orleans. LOL Gotta laugh. Just gotta laugh at the nuts of the world, and they come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and religious beliefs.

[marmalade]

If you are born white in America, (like being born straight, male, or able-bodied) you get bonus points. That's it. But programs that choose minorities first are not racist. This explains better than I ever could: http://www.agjohnson.us/glad/is-affirma ... on-racist/

Are you suffering prejudice and discrimination today because of your Italian heritage?

I'm glad you are here to force a real dialogue. This is so timely for me as a white woman who will eventually work in schools where I will be the minority. I've heard black kids talk on the bus about their white teachers and it isn't pretty. The problem probably stems from the teacher being colorblind rather than openly acknowledge that yes, there are people of different races and cultures in a classroom. I hope to foster a space where students can talk about their differences; that's really the only way people can gain true understanding. Ignoring it only entrenches "white privilege" that much deeper into a child's psyche, regardless of the white teacher's roots (which could have been redneck, white trash).

It's all about perception of power and white, primarily Western European males are at the top of the hierarchy. I'd rather have a debate about racism than ignore its existence any day of the week.

[SealFan1963]

I have a friend who is a nurse, she is white. She can't get a job because they give jobs to brown people first, to fufill quotas, even though she might be better qualified for the position. It might not be racism, but it's race based and it really really sucks.

This is very common in the medical field. They have to make those quotas, especially if they are a not-for-profit hospital and want to keep their government funding.

[urban teacher]

1) Having followed this thread from the beginning, I want to thank anxious girl for starting it. It has made me think as well as causing my blood pressure to rise at certain points.

2) To marmalade, I am an Arab American who works mostly with kids of color. Respect is key and listening. I've learned if they think I am wrong about how I treated them, I probably am wrong.

3) I think people are using classism in a way that equals racism which bothers me. While it's true that in America, class issues aren't supposed to exist, they do and are hurtful. And it no way equates the fact America was built on racism. Also, in the case of New Orleans, the television did not show poor whites being left to die in Katrina nor shot on the bridge as they tried to leave.

4) Also, I will not have to have the talk with my white godson about police like I would need to with my kids.

[BlondeAgent007]

Every new ethnic group in the US is discriminated against. My grandfather changed his Polish last name because he couldn't find work. Poles were considered poor, uneducated, heathen polytheistic catholics who couldn't stop having so many damn kids. My grandfather was very ashamed to be Polish. Even though he and my Grandmother both spoke fluent Polish, he refused to let my Grandmother teach any of her children Polish. he didn't want anyone to know they had any relation to the country. It made my grandmother cry numerous times. My mom gets teary eyed when she sees my siblings and I buying Polish T-shirts for Dyngus Day. She says her mother would be so happy to know we were proud of our Polish heritage.

It may not be happening anymore, but don't pretend white people have never had discrimination. Maybe not if you're from England, but probably everywhere else.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Thing is though - when those European immigrants were discriminated against, they were not being discriminated against AS white people, they were defined as NON-white people and discriminated against as NON-white people, BY white people.

Saying "my ancestors were discriminated against" doesn't mean that "white people" (quotes definitely needed) were discriminated against. The definition of who is white continually changes. YOU might be "white" now, but odds are your ancestors weren't.

Of course, some groups never make the transition because they look that different, but even among groups that look very different you still can get "honorary white" status almost, depending on some socioeconomic factors and "model minority" business and various other crap. And yes, people with that status can look down on others because it's a sort of privilege too.

Then, when it comes to "white privilege" in 2012, it's all about, do you pass for "white" NOW? Not what your ancestors were judged as, but you, now, in 2012, do you "pass" as "generic American" lookswise unless you say something different? For some "formerly discriminated against" European groups they probably do, for others maybe not (though odds are the problem is people - wrongly - think they're either Hispanic or MIddle Eastern because they're too "swarthy").

(This is of course a different axis from poverty or class, there are certainly markers there that will "give you away" and get you discriminated against but theoretically, if you wore all the right clothes and stood still, you could pass as a member of the elite. Very non-white people don't have that luxury.)

Also of course in any country the favored group will differ, usually my main beef when it comes to these discussions is people assuming that the hierarchy is the US hierarchy and groups that Americans lump together surely have some group identification all over the world, which is very much not the case.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Somehow the CSS died and the post was made twice, something burped on the back end.

[theologygeek]

3) I think people are using classism in a way that equals racism which bothers me. While it's true that in America, class issues aren't supposed to exist, they do and are hurtful. And it no way equates the fact America was built on racism. Also, in the case of New Orleans, the television did not show poor whites being left to die in Katrina nor shot on the bridge as they tried to leave..

Don't make excuses. It is just as wrong for someone to tell me to take my white ass back where it came from as it would be for me to tell someone to take her black ass back to where it came from. There is no excuse for either.

[theologygeek]

Thing is though - when those European immigrants were discriminated against, they were not being discriminated against AS white people, they were defined as NON-white people and discriminated against as NON-white people, BY white people..

I don't know how old you are or what part of the country you come from, but that is not true at all. 22 million immigrants came here through Ellis Island in New York. Many migrated to the Northeast. The only "whites" (by your definition) were the Yankees, and they didn't bother anyone. My great uncle wanted to be a firefighter. He was not hired because the Irish chief told him he did not like Italians. The poor Germans were tormented to the point of violence at times. No, it was not "by white people" by any means.

[theologygeek]

Every new ethnic group in the US is discriminated against. My grandfather changed his Polish last name because he couldn't find work. Poles were considered poor, uneducated, heathen polytheistic catholics who couldn't stop having so many damn kids. My grandfather was very ashamed to be Polish. Even though he and my Grandmother both spoke fluent Polish, he refused to let my Grandmother teach any of her children Polish. he didn't want anyone to know they had any relation to the country. It made my grandmother cry numerous times. My mom gets teary eyed when she sees my siblings and I buying Polish T-shirts for Dyngus Day. She says her mother would be so happy to know we were proud of our Polish heritage.

It may not be happening anymore, but don't pretend white people have never had discrimination. Maybe not if you're from England, but probably everywhere else.

I forgot about the Polish. No one liked them either. I think that some here are too young to have immigrant grandparents and hear the stories of what they went through.

[theologygeek]

My grandfather changed his Polish last name because he couldn't find work.

My father's friend's father (Polish) changed his last name to McDaniel.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I don't know how old you are or what part of the country you come from, but that is not true at all. 22 million immigrants came here through Ellis Island in New York. Many migrated to the Northeast. The only "whites" were the Yankees, and they didn't bother anyone. My great uncle wanted to be a firefighter. He was not hired because the Irish chief told him he did not like Italians. The poor Germans were tormented to the point of violence at times. No, it was not "by white people" by any means.

Me? I'm middle-aged and from a place where no one cares about white people and no one is Christian either.

Most of the discrimination I had read of the US against Italian people was against them because they are not white, they are not northern European, they are foreign. Perhaps other also discriminated against groups also got into it, but the idea that somehow it was only other newly arrived groups and not the "WASP" already-there-from-long-time people doing it doesn't match what I heard in (US) history classes. But yeah, I only learned it second hand. But what, you say it's only the Irish or other immigrant groups doing this?

Germans at least in Illinois similarly, they were freshly arrived and so "other" (and involved in scary labor movements spreading their scary messages in a foreign language) but the point being, they were Othered.

Whereas, the whole "but white people have racism too in the US in 2012" meme is not about that at all, it's implying that minorities are being racist against white people, viewing those white people as the majority, not viewing them as foreigners. The dynamic is different. That's all I'm getting at.

And the question still stands, are you implying that Italian-American people of Nth generation who speak perfect English (and probably ONLY English) are being actively discriminated against in the US today, that people would not consider them mainstream default Americans when they go into a store, when they try to get a loan? Because I find that hard to believe, and THAT is really where the argument started, about people experiencing racism today in 2012.

...which brings us back to the college clubs too, because being an immigrant (or expat) from country X is very much not the same thing as being an "X-ancestry American" and very often they don't mix all that much.

[BlueChair]

I was told to get my white ass out of New Orleans. LOL Gotta laugh. Just gotta laugh at the nuts of the world, and they come in all shapes, sizes, colors, and religious beliefs.

She asks if you are suffering prejudice and discrimination today because of your Italian heritage and that's your response? So I guess the answer is no then. And I seriously hope you are not equating a one-time racial slur to a lifetime of being subjected to institutionalized racism.

And I am so over the "Being XYZ European American in the past was soooo terrible!!1!" argument. I am also descended from many of those immigrant groups. It was terrible for them when they arrived and sometimes for a few generations afterwards and that is inexcusable. It does not, however, compare to the now centuries of prejudice and discrimination POC have faced in this country. Your white European group of origin was eventually absorbed into the general white community. They're fine now. You're fine now. Your children and grandchildren and great grandchildren will not suffer for being German or Italian or Irish American. These groups achieve higher education, get jobs, and get arrested and go to prison at the same rates as the rest of white America. Nobody can look at them and based on their obvious German or Italian or Swedish or Hungarian heritage will follow them through a store or think twice about hiring them for a position.

In short, I think it is really, really disingenuous to bring up these kinds of arguments when talking about the challenges and discrimination faced by POC and the realities of long-term institutionalized racism. It is not the same.

[justlurking]

In short, I think it is really, really disingenuous to bring up these kinds of arguments when talking about the challenges and discrimination faced by POC and the realities of long-term institutionalized racism. It is not the same.

ITA.

ETA a link to a Tim Wise article that articulately expresses the sentiment:

www.timwise.org/2008/01/when-blacks-att ... al-racism/

[BlondeAgent007]

The only difference today is that people are migrating from non-European countries, but the US has always been afraid that a new culture will take over. I think that's why people freak out about making Spanish a second national language. Why is it bad for people to know two languages? How is that a bad thing?

I still wish I knew Polish. I only know a few words. My grandfather died when my mom was 13, but my Papa (step grandparent, only grandpa i remember for more than a flash and is still alive) did speak it. He and my grandmother used to argue in Polish so that us kids wouldn't understand. I only know a few words which I can't even spell to put here.

[BlondeAgent007]

do not put "formerly discriminated" in quotes. It is demeaning. My ancestors may not have faced the level of discrimination you did, but it was enough to change their names and try to forget their culture, much like you.

[BlueChair]

The only difference today is that people are migrating from non-European countries, but the US has always been afraid that a new culture will take over. I think that's why people freak out about making Spanish a second national language. Why is it bad for people to know two languages? How is that a bad thing?

I still wish I knew Polish. I only know a few words. My grandfather died when my mom was 13, but my Papa (step grandparent, only grandpa i remember for more than a flash and is still alive) did speak it. He and my grandmother used to argue in Polish so that us kids wouldn't understand. I only know a few words which I can't even spell to put here.

Are you joking? Never mind the hundreds of years of African migrants (via slave ship and otherwise), the Asian migrants to the Pacific coast, and countless other examples of our very diverse history of immigration. I guess the history you learned has been whitewashed in a very literal sense.

[BlueChair]

ITA.

ETA a link to a Tim Wise article that articulately expresses the sentiment:

http://www.timwise.org/2008/01/when-bla ... al-racism/

I love Tim Wise! His book White Like Me is one I highly recommend.

[MyNameIsJonas]

I love Tim Wise! His book White Like Me is one I highly recommend.

I like him too. His work is a really good starting point for anyone interested. Some of the responses here.... I just have to chuckle.. Again, racismschool.tumblr is another great source that pretty much explains all the "what about me?" Arguments.