Rant of Rage: People Can't be Racist Against Whites

[Anxious Girl]

I have been pissed the past few days and need to let it out. There is no such thing as "white racism". To the people who say they were the only white kid in their neighborhood and were picked on because they were white, that's not the case. The minorities were attacking your privilege, not you. If you wonder why, then read on. How many times have white people been denied jobs because of their skin color, or of they weren't qualified enough?

How many times have whites been denied jobs and have had to have been checked in public places for their religious head coverings? How many times in history were whites held in slavery, and the excuse by plantation owners was it's ok because they were the inferior race? How many times have white people been told to deal with the great freedom they have because according to black people, POC have created most of the world's inventions, and discovered new discoveries? How many white people's whose ancestors were white were forced to change their religion, hide their language or barely speak it, had to create a civil rights' movement for their rights? How many white people have been arrested in a crime even if they were innocent? Is the government made up of mostly black people who're trying to deny white people their rights because they're afraid of losing even an iota of their influence and power?

Who set up imperialized empires that exploited white people through powers by force of expansion and weapons? Who commited the genocides against the native whites and took their land for themselves? Do black business men have control of most of the worlds' governments and major coorperations? (sp?) If you answered no to most of these questions, then SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP. There's no such thing as white racism, you special little snowflakes. * I just had to get this off my chest :oops: *

[MandyLaLa]

But black people have the BET (Black Entertainment Television) Channel and that's just totally reverse racism against whites! Imagine if there was a White Entertainment Television :eusa-violin: :angry-cussingblack:

[Arete]

Didn't we review institutionalized vs individual racism? No, a 10 year old AA boy jumping a white boy and yelling "honky" is not attacking the 10 year old white boy's priviledge. He's attacking him for his skin color, that is racism, of the individual variety.

Slavery, denial of jobs based on skin color, Jim Crow law, that is all under institutionalized racism.

[Anxious Girl]

I don't believe there's such a thing as individual racism. It undermines what minorities who weren't white that the Civil War and Civil Right's Movement that their people and supporters went through meant nothing. Racism includes intolerance, power, and oppression.

edit: In the bleaching of minorities news, commenters used the excuse that the bleachers should put in jail for throwing bleaching people with bleach-filled water-balloons, not because it was made up of white people who painted in black face and organized parties that included events like that, but because people can be racist against whites too!!!!!11! I'm sick and tired of this bullshit. :evil:

[Guest Anonymous]

First off, I agree with you that institutionalized racism against white people is not a thing.

That said, I disagree with you here and there.

If a kid gets their ass kicked by other kids because of their race, telling them that "they're attacking your privilege, not you" is damn small comfort, and IMO, not helpful. White people who are muslim are likely to get the WTF headcovering treatment.

How many white people's whose ancestors were white were forced to change their religion, hide their language or barely speak it, had to create a civil rights' movement for their rights?

Well, Jewish people - although they may or may not consider themselves white. You might want to look into the situation with England and Ireland a few hundred years ago, too. I'm absolutely not trying to say that white people are persecuted, particularly in the United States, but I disagree with a couple of your points.

[terranova]

I have a friend who is a nurse, she is white. She can't get a job because they give jobs to brown people first, to fufill quotas, even though she might be better qualified for the position. It might not be racism, but it's race based and it really really sucks.

[Anxious Girl]

First off, I agree with you that institutionalized racism against white people is not a thing.

That said, I disagree with you here and there.

If a kid gets their ass kicked by other kids because of their race, telling them that "they're attacking your privilege, not you" is damn small comfort, and IMO, not helpful. White people who are muslim are likely to get the WTF headcovering treatment.

Well, Jewish people - although they may or may not consider themselves white. You might want to look into the situation with England and Ireland a few hundred years ago, too. I'm absolutely not trying to say that white people are persecuted, particularly in the United States, but I disagree with a couple of your points.

1st bolded: I agree, and I apologize, because I thought people would just be knowing that my post was about America, not other countries. Regardless, nobody should be harassed because of their race.

2nd: Wouldn't that be more of anti-ethnicity? :think: Out of curiosity, does that fall under racism too? * please forgive me for being ignorant, I'm tired of people that think that people can't be racist against minorities today because it's the 21st century :oops: *

[mkitten]

Didn't we review institutionalized vs individual racism? No, a 10 year old AA boy jumping a white boy and yelling "honky" is not attacking the 10 year old white boy's priviledge. He's attacking him for his skin color, that is racism, of the individual variety.

Slavery, denial of jobs based on skin color, Jim Crow law, that is all under institutionalized racism.

This. In my opinion, attacking someone based on the color of their skin, no matter what that color is, is racism. Period. I'm really hoping that within my lifetime, or at least within my kid's lifetime, that maybe race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. will all be accepted aspects as a part of a person's individualuality and not something to be judged or picked upon, or discriminated against. However, that's probably too much to hope for, given that people have a disturbing history of violence and hate of anything they perceive as "other."

[OkToBeTakei]

Institutionalised racism against white people? No. I would tend to agree with that.

Ireland in the past 100 years probably answers yes to just about all the questions you posed.

In the UK racism is a crime, a hate crime.

Hate crime can include physical attacks, offensive grafitti, the threat of attack, verbal abuse and bullying at school. The police's definition of a hate crime is: 'Any incident, which constitutes a criminal offence, which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by prejudice or hate.' So in short, if you think it's racism, it is racism.

It is not always a black and white issue.

[SpeshulTaterTot]

I was called a white devil by my black ex-boyfriend's aunt, and wasn't allowed to come into her house. She also refused to come to family dinner while we were visiting his family in the US, which made for a very awkward Thanksgiving. The woman knew nothing about me other than that I was white and dating her nephew. Was she attacking my privilege or was she attacking me?

I absolutely agree that there is no institutionalized racism against whites. However, I believe that there is quite a bit of individual racism that has nothing to do with attacking my privilege.

Scots could answer yes to your points about religion and language, too.

[OkToBeTakei]

Anxious girl..I cross posted with you. I see you are talking about the USA. My apologies. My knowledge in that regard would be based on what I have read and not on any experience at all.

It will be good for me to see the answers here in that respect.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Problems with your argument:

1. You are lumping all whites together as a group. If someone is complaining that whites, as a specific group, are the targets of discrimination in the United States, your approach could be legitimate. The United States, however, is not the only country on a the planet, and racial dynamics are not the same in all other countries. Someone who may be seen as "white" in the United States may be defined as a member of an oppressed group in another country.

2. So yes, as a matter of fact, there are people who are seen as white who have been persecuted on the basis of religious head coveragings (such as Jews and white Muslims). Jews and Slavs were used as slave labor during WWII and seen as an inferior race. Groups such as Irish Catholics and Jews suffered religious persecution and loss of language. I could go on, but you get the idea.

3. What the fuck does it mean to say "they were attacking your privilege, not you"? If you are attacked, then you're attacked.

[Anxious Girl]

I truly apologize to everybody for being a non-understanding, unintelligent harpy about the individual racism issue to everybody. I should have made it clearer that I was talking about institutional racism, not individual racism. I still have a lot to learn. :oops:

[Arete]

AnxiousGirl, racism is not some phenomenom unique to the US. It exists everywhere, and while it often functions with power and oppression, it does not need to. Oppressed people can be racists. The only thing you need to be a racist is to judge a person/people inferior by their physical or cultural characteristics. In the US, many immigrant groups were forced to stop speaking their native languages in public as part of the "deal" they made to live among their neighbors. These people would look white and were getting stepped on by other whites. This is not to equate the immigrant experience with the African American experience, because it cannot be. You were asking a specific question to which you implied the answer was no, but I'm telling you, with language assimilation, the answer was most definitely yes.

You can fight institutionalized racism without having to pretend that individual racism doesn't exist. I can't speak to other cultures, but Greeks call other ethnicities "races" and refer to themselves as a "race". Your defining these terms too narrowly.

[Anxious Girl]

AnxiousGirl, racism is not some phenomenom unique to the US. It exists everywhere, and while it often functions with power and oppression, it does not need to. Oppressed people can be racists. The only thing you need to be a racist is to judge a person/people inferior by their physical or cultural characteristics. In the US, many immigrant groups were forced to stop speaking their native languages in public as part of the "deal" they made to live among their neighbors. These people would look white and were getting stepped on by other whites. This is not to equate the immigrant experience with the African American experience, because it cannot be. You were asking a specific question to which you implied the answer was no, but I'm telling you, with language assimilation, the answer was most definitely yes.

You can fight institutionalized racism without having to pretend that individual racism doesn't exist. I can't speak to other cultures, but Greeks call other ethnicities "races" and refer to themselves as a "race". Your defining these terms too narrowly.

I know. I have to educate myself before I start spewing shit that I don't know about. :oops:

[rock_girl]

I know. I have to educate myself before I start spewing shit that I don't know about. :oops:

Chin up! I still don't understand it and have only managed to not make a fool out of myself by shutting up about the subject. Nothing wrong with being passionate about making people aware of their privilege.

[mkitten]

I truly apologize to everybody for being a non-understanding, unintelligent harpy about the individual racism issue to everybody. I should have made it clearer that I was talking about institutional racism, not individual racism. I still have a lot to learn. :oops:

You're not unintelligent, I think that everyone still has a lot to learn. I'm white (very, I burn red like a tomato every summer) and I grew up in Mesa, AZ, a very white, conservative predominantly Mormon suburb (although I'm not Mormon) in the Phoenix area. I have a lot to learn about minority perspectives. When I was growing up, I was always taught that skin color didn't matter at all, and as I get older, I'm realizing that, yes, it does (in terms of real life opportunity, encountering racism, other things that I would never experience on an institutional level because of my skin color.)

[MandyLaLa]

I have a friend who is a nurse, she is white. She can't get a job because they give jobs to brown people first, to fufill quotas, even though she might be better qualified for the position. It might not be racism, but it's race based and it really really sucks.

Is there any proof that they have quotas and they hire based on skin color?

[2xx1xy1JD]

I know you are thinking primarily of the United States, but I would also reject the line of thinking that says that racism can only flow in one direction, or that a reversal in the direction of racism over time is impossible.

We have examples outside of the United States where a group that originally was subject to institutional racism gains power and then engages in institutional racism against the formerly privileged group. This happened with the seizing of white-owned farms in Zimbabwe. On a more brutal level, it happened in Rwanda - the Tutsis had been favored by Belgians who considered them racially superior to Hutus, but later faced absolutely brutal persecution and genocide from radical Hutus.

[MyNameIsJonas]

I usually dance around these threads because sometimes things get out of hand and it's triggering for me, but racismschool.tumblr.com is a great source for you, Anxious Girl. I think you'd enjoy reading there. It details all of the common lessons and missteps like:

The Myth of Reverse Racism: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/07/1 ... rse-Racism

The 2012 Guide: http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/157 ... e-for-2012 (everyone on earth should read this)

"We're not all like that": http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/158 ... -like-that & http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/166 ... ite-people

You Might be Racist If: http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/181 ... ne-edition

"Well I Think YOU'RE racist!": http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/166 ... ite-people

The Big Four: http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/199 ... e-big-four

Handling White Privilege: http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/160 ... -privilege

There's a wealth of information but these are my favorites. I would really recommend checking it out- it's an excellent site.

[Olive Plant]

I was having a conversation with a Japanese American friend the other day, about how his parents were very distraught over the fact that he thinks he wants to marry a non-Japanese girl, probably a white girl since those are in the majority. I asked him: what if she came from a very family-oriented subculture and actually learned Japanese, since those are the reasons they listed for wanting you to marry a Japanese girl? He said it might help, but it still wouldn't be the same to his family.

I realize this kind of blurs the line with the cultural/skin distinction, but it's very common in various American families with roots in whatever country they still identify with. They don't want their kids marrying someone who doesn't look like them, and that often means white people.

If you go to someplace like Asia or the Middle East, then absolutely, you can feel picked on because of your white skin. Another of my friends gets PISSED if you try to tell him white people can't experience racism, because he lived in Korea and said total strangers would make monkey noises at him, because they thought his features resembled those of a chimp.

[Anxious Girl]

I know you are thinking primarily of the United States, but I would also reject the line of thinking that says that racism can only flow in one direction, or that a reversal in the direction of racism over time is impossible.

We have examples outside of the United States where a group that originally was subject to institutional racism gains power and then engages in institutional racism against the formerly privileged group. This happened with the seizing of white-owned farms in Zimbabwe. On a more brutal level, it happened in Rwanda - the Tutsis had been favored by Belgians who considered them racially superior to Hutus, but later faced absolutely brutal persecution and genocide from radical Hutus.

I know, and I'm ignorant about these issues. I have to educate myself about all types of racism; before I spew shit like I said before.

edit: Thanks for the links, MyNameIsJonas.

[MyNameIsJonas]

I realize this kind of blurs the line with the cultural/skin distinction, but it's very common in various American families with roots in whatever country they still identify with. They don't want their kids marrying someone who doesn't look like them, and that often means white people.

I would say this is less about "look" for POC and more about self-preservation. Who else understands what you go through in this country more than one of your own?

[2xx1xy1JD]

I would say this is less about "look" for POC and more about self-preservation. Who else understands what you go through in this country more than one of your own?

Making a personal choice to marry within your background on the basis that you want a spouse who truly understands you is quite different than dictating who someone ELSE marries in the name of "self-preservation". I get the self-preservation argument (since I've heard similar ones), but question it, and the underlying assumption that one automatically owes a duty of marriage to the group.

[linnea27]

I do think you were mostly right, anxiousgirl. What most white people call reverse racism is not racism but discrimination, which can happen anywhere, between anyone. Power at a structural level is needed for racism.

That being said, power is subjective and can change in different environments. Someone may hold power in some situations and not others, and that is the only time "reverse racism" can exist. I am going to share an (admittedly extreme) example, not because I want to further the "poor white people!" whining, but because I want to illustrate how extreme something must be before I personally would define it as racism against whites, and how "that guy called a white person a name- white racism!!!!" pales in comparison.

I know a man who was raised on a very-remote (fly-in only, iirc) Indian Reserve. He is white, his step-father is First Nations and when step-dad lost his job the family moved to step-dads home reserve. This man feels that he was the victim of racism on this reserve. They had little to no contact to the outside world. On that reserve, he was a distinct minority and held no power. Everything from having to pay more for products (in Canada, status First Nation people don't pay taxes on anything bought on reserve. As he was not First Nations, he had to pay more than anyone else), to feeling he had limited options for college (the band supported members who moved away to go to college financially; as a non-band member, he was not eligible and had a hard time even learning about funding opportunities in the days before the band had internet), to the band elections he could not participate in, to the bullying he received, for the fact he knew he could not stay on the reserve on his own unless he married a woman there because he was not eligible for housing, etc, he felt very much like a second-class citizen. He said it was quite the culture shock when he moved away as an adult.

***please note I am not sharing this to start a discussion on whether minorities should receive college funding, or taxes paid on reserve, or anything else. I understand why these things exist in a society that is dominated by white. My point is only that as this community was so isolated, he never felt part of larger Canadian society. In this isolated community, he held no power and knew it.

Please ignore typos; I am on my phone and feeding my baby and my phone won't let me scrollup to proofread.

I know a white man who was raised on a very remote Indian Reserve. His step-father was First Nations and when step-dad lost his job the family move