Rant of Rage: People Can't be Racist Against Whites

[MyNameIsJonas]

And have the security guard follow you around to make sure you're not hiding anything in the baby's pram. Or is that just me?

Yes! In the same shopping trip I was asked if my very cute 3 year old cousin was my baby. (Thank God! the woman said. You're too young!) and an employee kept asking me a bunch of questions about the baby but I could tell she was watching me. I remember when I was 14 my dad did my friend's mom a favor and took us both to the dentist. The dental tech asked if there was a chance I could be pregnant before my xray but didn't ask her (my friend). She is white. At the time, I was thinking, "Pregnant?! I'm 14!" But now I see what it was really about.

Edited for clarity

[emmiedahl]

About the xrays, they are supposed to ask everyone who is near or past puberty. He's lucky your white friend was not pregnant or she could have sued. :lol:

[DarkAnts]

Yes! In the same shopping trip I was asked if my very cute 3 year old cousin was my baby. (Thank God! the woman said. You're too young!) and an employee kept asking me a bunch of questions about the baby but I could tell she was watching me. I remember when I was 14 my dad did my friend's mom a favor and took us both to the dentist. The dental tech asked if there was a chance I could be pregnant before my xray but didn't ask her (my friend). She is white. At the time, I was thinking, "Pregnant?! I'm 14!" But now I see what it was really about.

Edited for clarity

That happened to me at age 11, it continues though out life. I contributed the question to being an early bloomer.

[MyNameIsJonas]

That happened to me at age 11, it continues though out life. I contributed the question to being an early bloomer.

I was an early bloomer, too. I guess at that age I didn't think 14 year olds were having sex. I didn't think 'RACIST' when she said it though, I was kind of like "ew sex no gross." :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

Being asked whether you're pregnant is just good sense in certain medical situations. I've been asked that question before every vaccination I've had since I was twelve. It's also the main problem I have with those TV medical dramas where the "twist" is that the patient is pregnant but is just having weird symptoms (Surely you would have tested for that already!).

[Deleted07]

I dunno, I don't like generalizations of any kind when it comes to race. Saying you're privileged because you're white doesn't really sit well with me... As does automatically thinking that because someone is black they are disadvantaged in some way. Both seem wrong to me!

Its like saying that because someone is blonde haired and blue eyed is more privileged than a brown haired brown eyed person. Maybe I am being naive here.

I would like to share, I'm Caucasian and was raised in Government housing, in a poor area, with probably even 50/50 other race families to white families. Me and my white friends were labelled "White Trash" by some of other raced kids in the area and, then called the same by our own race from people not from my neighborhood, but who knew where I came from and the menial jobs my parents had.

However, I worked my way through school, took shitty jobs, graduated, worked my way up and educated myself some more, started earning money and moved out and away.

Did I get here from just being White? If that were the case why are the white friends I used to hang with, still back in that same neighborhood in 3rd generational poverty?

Was it somehow easier for me to get out and work my way up and out because I was White? I really don't know about that.

Its a tough one for sure.

[Effie]

Disagree completely with the OP. This only seems to be referring to the USA and is very narrow - that is not what racism is about at all. It can be directed at any race to any race in any culture and while there isn't really institutionalized racism against white people for being white in western society, it occurs in others and with individuals.

Yup, I sure wouldn't want to be white i.e. albino in certain African villages, especially in Tanzania (but also other parts of East Africa). I mean, considering the trade of their body parts...

Eta. Is it common to use the word race nowadays? Ras (race) is a word which has been successfully challenged and removed from the Swedish language. We do not use that word anymore, and ras is replaced with etnicitet (ethnicity) in the code of laws. (Of course we recognize there is one race: the human race i.e. homo sapiens - sapiens).

[Avalondaughter]

I had a professor in college give this definition of racism.

Racism = Prejudice + Power

Can a minority be prejudiced towards white people. Can one show hatred and contempt for white people? Absolutely. That isn't racism. Racism is defined as the institutionalized fear and hatred for the minority group. Racism has to do with the ways these feelings are embedded into our culture. Racism is the woman, who even though she considers herself an enlightened liberal, clings a little tighter to her purse when a black man is in the room with her. Racism is taking a class trip to Ellis Island and talking about our immigrant ancestors, while completely ignoring the black kids in the class whose ancestors certainly didn't come through Ellis Island. Racism is popular TV shows being heavily centered around white people who live in NYC and yet never seem to encounter a black person.

[mpheels]

I'm wondering if age and source of education enters into this at all.

I went to a workshop about 20 years ago, taught by a man who was not a very good teacher -- he had that "I am the expert and you have nothing to contribute" manner.

He asked us to write down our definition of racism -- most wrote that racism is prejudice based on race, or something like that.

No, he told us, there was an official new definition ( he even cited a particular university, but I can't remember which, now), and that "racism," with no adjective or other specifics, now meant that those in power were holding down those of other races.

Those who thought that, perhaps, it might be clearer to refer to that as "institutionalized" or "societal" or "power-based" racism were scornfully told they were wrong. The new definition had come down from (you should pardon the expression!) the ivory tower, and that was that.

So perhaps some of the younger people here, depending on where they went to school, were, in fact, given "racism" as the term for what those in power do to others based on race. And some of us older folks were taught it means "prejudice based on race, " or sussed that out just by looking at the word.

I certainly agree that institutionalized racism, in the US, is generally coming from white people, not towards them.

I think it has more to do with where we were taught, plus field and level of education. I'm 29, and did the same kinds of diversity workshop for graduate school less than 10 years ago. We were taught that racism comes in different forms - over and covert, individual and institutional. This was part of a public health program, with a significant focus on community building.

[justlurking]

I dunno, I don't like generalizations of any kind when it comes to race. Saying you're privileged because you're white doesn't really sit well with me... As does automatically thinking that because someone is black they are disadvantaged in some way. Both seem wrong to me!

Its like saying that because someone is blonde haired and blue eyed is more privileged than a brown haired brown eyed person. Maybe I am being naive here.

I would like to share, I'm Caucasian and was raised in Government housing, in a poor area, with probably even 50/50 other race families to white families. Me and my white friends were labelled "White Trash" by some of other raced kids in the area and, then called the same by our own race from people not from my neighborhood, but who knew where I came from and the menial jobs my parents had.

However, I worked my way through school, took shitty jobs, graduated, worked my way up and educated myself some more, started earning money and moved out and away.

Did I get here from just being White? If that were the case why are the white friends I used to hang with, still back in that same neighborhood in 3rd generational poverty?

Was it somehow easier for me to get out and work my way up and out because I was White? I really don't know about that.

Its a tough one for sure.

White privilege isn't just about someone's economic status. The term was actually coined by a white teacher back in the 80's, Peggy Mcintosh, who took the time to sit down and seriously consider some of the social benefits she is able to receive just by nature of her skin color/race that many minorities do not. She later wrote an article entitled "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack" where she detailed many of those privileges. You can read about some of them here: http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

[mpheels]

The US has economic discrimination. We tend to lump people of different races into different economic groups. I am of a European mutt. My family was poor growing up. I was frustrated that people with other skin colors with the same economic background as me got scholarships but I did not because I was white. I was not privileged as a poor white child. It was counted against me for higher learning. But, I dont consider it racism. I consider it ignorance.

We discriminate agains people with a different economical status then us. We see them as inferior. We do lump racism in that as well. But, I think overall, the biggest discrimination in the US right now has to do with money.

I'm white, and Southern. My family has been in the same corner of the South since the mid 1600's, a region where the plantation economy never took hold, and the impact of Reconstruction was especially harsh. One branch of my family ended up in share cropping following the Civil War, and were stuck in that position until WWII. I'm one generation removed from share cropping. My grandfather's family was so poor, he always said they never noticed the Great Depression, because they were already living a subsistence life and had nothing of monetary value to lose. They were by all accounts as economically disadvantaged as possible. Here's where the privilege comes in... During WWII, he was able to enlist in any branch of the military he wanted, and had reasonable freedom to choose his specialty beyond that. After the war, he was able to use the GI bill to go to school and learn a trade, and he didn't have to go far from home to do it. His peers from the same town, who happened to be not-white had far more limited options for military service, they were restricted to branches and regiments designated for black men. After the war, those who were able to serve didn't have viable options for job training because there were very few schools that would take them because of their race. So my grandfather on paper looks like he all kinds of boot-strap-pulling success, but he was at a huge advantage based on his race alone. He was just as poor as his non-white neighbors, but they didn't have the same opportunities for success, and it took another generation or two for their kids and grand kids to even have the opportunity to succeed in the way my family has, and they had to deal with police dogs and fire hoses just to get a foot in the door. So yes, economic disadvantage is real, and it really sucks, but racism piles on top of that.

TL:DR, until very recently in US history, a poor white kid might miss out because she didn't have money, but a black kid missed out because she was allowed to participate at all no matter.

[HOTW]

I see what you're talking about, but that isn't white privilege. White privilege is more than just what material things you get to have or what money you make. White does not automatically equal easy life, and no one is saying that. Having privilege doesn't mean you should feel guilty or ashamed. It means that in this country, you get to move freely and fairly without question in a way that I, as a black woman, cannot. THAT is your privilege. As a white person, you are not under a microscope the way that POC are. If we were both the same age, appeared to be of the same social class and each walked into a supermarket with a toddler to do some shopping, your white privilege makes other shoppers say, "How cute!" or ignore your actions completely. It makes shoppers look at me and say "She looks young too have a baby." Or, "Where is his father?"

I disagree on the idea that no white person is going to be talked down to with a child. I used to get that all the time. I had my first at 21 but I looked 13- my Husband who was 2 years older than me loooked like he was in his late 30's. He used to be called vile names and I was told I was too young to be a mom. Even when I was PG with my second people thought it was disgusting and would tell me I was a bad influence on my little "sister"

[Deleted03]

Prejudices of single parenthood for Afro-American women are really strong. I saw Angela Davis in conference, and she related her friend's experience (a professor) at the doctor. She went it because she was feeling bad, and the doctor looks at her, kinda sad: "Well you're pregnant" She answers "That's wonderful! My husband will be so thrilled!" And he replied: "You are married?"

Intersectionality does tell us that there is more than race for discrimination to happens, social class (and gender!) are both really important. Where you live is also extremely important.

Being white and poor brings you a different set of discrimination than being black and poor. It does not mean that one is worse than the other, just that they are fundamentally different. And if you rise up to middle class, your situation will be different too.

[BelieveinScience]

How many scholarships can you name for "white" people? I can name 5 total all are for under $1000 over 4 years.

Now then how many scholarships can you name for other races? How much are they individually worth over 4 years?

I think that we need to look at the economic status of each student not the color of their skin.

I graduated high school in 2008 and I looked through a lot of scholarships I wasn't eligible for. What I found was even those scholarships for the "non white people" only had values up to around 2,500 which was around the equivalent to all the "white" scholarships I found. Furthermore, I also found scholarships just for people of German descent, Irish Descent, etc.. etc...

My friend who is white grew up poor and managed to acquire enough scholarships to get her college tuition paid for all four years and none of the scholarships came from the school she attended. It is very possible to be a poor white person and get college paid for.

[salsa]

Ok, poorly written, too much beer.... and my having poorly read the original post. *blush*

Economic disparities do exist.Racial inequalities exist. They often overlap, but not always. I know, and I sympathize. Inequalities do exist (can't remember the author/sociologists' name, but one book is called "Savage Inequalities")* I also know that persons of color in the US are often treated abysmally by caucasians, either overtly, as by the KKK, or more subtly, as in teachers not calling black students as often as their white peers.

I do get tired, however, of *SOME* African Americans deliberately doing the things I mentioned in my post just to irritate or exert control over me because I'm white, in essence, making me pay for the sins of my forebears. Now, you can rip it to shreds because I have no hard proof of my being treated rudely by an African American is because I'm white; no one has ever said to me, "It's because he's black and you're white that I'm seating the customer behind you before you even though you were standing in line for awhile while I organized my menus and pretended to be busy." No one has said, "I'm deliberately giving you wrong directions because I'm black and you're white." No one has said, "I'm going to stop right in front of where you're walking and slow down just to irritate you because you're white" (though the first time it happened was in a public restroom and a woman blocked the door. I said, "excuse me." She replied, "I'll move when I'm ready; you're not in that big a hurry" - still not proof that it was a racial thing).

Lena Johnson's book, of several years back (2006 2007, I think) discusses the irritations between black and white folks.

But I now see that this wasn't really the original conversation - I chimed in ill-advisedly. I'll bow out now, without a flounce, because I see the conversation has gone on and I've got to get to work.

You may think I'm racist because I get irritated at the little things (and paying, presumably, for my complicity in ill treatment of blacks - one man once even called me a slave-holder), and if white folks do crap like that to me I get mad at them, too.

ok, starting to ramble again... have a good day.

*I'm typing in "Quick Reply" which doesn't have underlining and italics options.

[MyNameIsJonas]

I disagree on the idea that no white person is going to be talked down to with a child. I used to get that all the time. I had my first at 21 but I looked 13- my Husband who was 2 years older than me loooked like he was in his late 30's. He used to be called vile names and I was told I was too young to be a mom. Even when I was PG with my second people thought it was disgusting and would tell me I was a bad influence on my little "sister"

Perhaps because you were an early bloomer, not because of your race that this happened. There are far fewer negative stereotypes about white motherhood than black. Some people are straight up rude. Salsa, I don't want to quote your whole post here so if you read this, I don't think you're racist. We all get drunk sometimes. :dance: Like I said, some people are really rude. If you seem to notice that black people are more rude to you than white people, well, I don't really know what to say to that.

[BelieveinScience]

Okay so I have a question about a topic I'm pretty ignorant on but I've seen My nameis jonas bring up. How do you know to call someone black/african american, white/caucasian etc..? I've always referred to Black people as African American, and white as caucasian. My Friend is married to a black man and I asked her one day if her husband refers to himself as black or african american and she told me he doesn't care if people call him black or african american but he refers to himself as black. She went on to say that some blacks will get really upset if you call them African American. Is there a standard default you should go to like calling whites, white and blacks black? And then having just the people who are "straight out of Africa" as African Americans? Then what about the hispanics? Not all Spanish people have that caramel color are they still considered hispanics? I feel so ignorant when it comes to topics like this and the last thing I want to do is offend someone by using the wrong word.

[emmiedahl]

It was African-American when I was younger and in high school, now it is Black, at least among the people I know. I just use whatever the group is using.

We have similar issues in my town with ethnicity. I was told in college that Latino is correct, but the Latino people I know prefer Hispanic or simply their nation of origin because a Mexican generally has a very different background than a white Argentinian.

Race is a touchy subject but luckily not so much in my daily life. I live in an area where white people are definitely not the majority and everyone gets along fine with the exception of a few racist assholes. I tell my kids that people are individuals who deserve respect and friendship regardless of their skin color, and all of the tolerant, hippie stuff I was raised with. But the oldest son and I have definitely had the talk about white privilege and male privilege. He is mixed race (White, Native American, Central Asian) but looks white and has a generic American name. So I made sure he knew that even though we are poor, he was basically born on third base.

He can walk to the minimart at night in a black hoodie without being perceived as a threat and shot, for example.

[smores]

Did someone say that? If so, they must have edited it out, or I missed it reading too fast.

That would be a ridiculous thing to say, I agree.

I misspoke, it should have said against white people. Whoops. Carry on.

[thoughtful]

I had a professor in college give this definition of racism.

Racism = Prejudice + Power

Can a minority be prejudiced towards white people. Can one show hatred and contempt for white people? Absolutely. That isn't racism. Racism is defined as the institutionalized fear and hatred for the minority group. Racism has to do with the ways these feelings are embedded into our culture.

Which brings us back to my point.

Some people had the word "racism," all by itself, defined that way. And, if that is the definition in your head, of course it sounds really offensive to hear white Americans say they've experienced racism.

But I had never heard that definition until the workshop I took 20 years ago, and none of the people taking it with me had heard that, either. I figured I was behind the times, but I've seen, over the years, that other people of various ages were also unaware of it.

If you have only learned that definition, it might avoid anger on both sides if you check to find out if the person claiming racism against whites knows about the "it's about power and society" definition of the word, or if they are thinking "one person treated another person badly because of their race, which can go in any direction."

[thoughtful]

I think it has more to do with where we were taught, plus field and level of education. I'm 29, and did the same kinds of diversity workshop for graduate school less than 10 years ago. We were taught that racism comes in different forms - over and covert, individual and institutional. This was part of a public health program, with a significant focus on community building.

It sounds like you had better teachers than the shmo who ran the workshop I attended. :D

But I think this thread, and lots of other arguments I've read and heard since, points to the fact that many people have been taught that "racism" always means "institutionalized racism," and that it has been stated (or at least implied by the teacher or inferred by the students) that, in the US, that means "white against black."

Like I said, that's why I choose other words when talking about the bigotry, in any direction, of individuals.

[smores]

Which brings us back to my point.

Some people had the word "racism," all by itself, defined that way. And, if that is the definition in your head, of course it sounds really offensive to hear white Americans say they've experienced racism.

But I had never heard that definition until the workshop I took 20 years ago, and none of the people taking it with me had heard that, either. I figured I was behind the times, but I've seen, over the years, that other people of various ages were also unaware of it.

If you have only learned that definition, it might avoid anger on both sides if you check to find out if the person claiming racism against whites knows about the "it's about power and society" definition of the word, or if they are thinking "one person treated another person badly because of their race, which can go in any direction."

I completely agree with your post. I actually disagree with the power/society definition very much, because we don't define sexism or ageism with such strict standards - in the end, it would seem that discrimination based on skin color is discrimination.

[emmiedahl]

There are definitely different ways of defining racism. I think the important thing to keep in mind is that, as a member of the majority, there is no societal bias against us that would create institutional racism. So we may meet individual assholes, who are likely assholes to a variety of people of all races, but we have in general not been victim of a larger effort.

There are smaller cases of institutional racism against whites in the US, but like I said, it is not the story of a white American person's life. How do I know I have white privilege even though I cannot see it? Because I know that members of the majority religion do not see their privilege; they are quick to point to "that one time" they were individually persecuted and cannot grasp that my religion is perpetually treated as less than. I know that middle class and wealthy people do not see their privilege; they think they worked hard to get what they have and don't understand that I work just as hard for less. I know that most men do not see their privilege. Privilege is not something you directly experience in most cases, although you certainly experience its lack. The relative lack of negative experiences related to my skin color is the same inherent privilege that Christians, men, middle class people enjoy.

Privilege does not mean you were pushed to the front of the line; it means no one was allowed to push you to the back.

[thoughtful]

There are definitely different ways of defining racism. I think the important thing to keep in mind is that, as a member of the majority, there is no societal bias against us that would create institutional racism. So we may meet individual assholes, who are likely assholes to a variety of people of all races, but we have in general not been victim of a larger effort.

There are smaller cases of institutional racism against whites in the US, but like I said, it is not the story of a white American person's life. How do I know I have white privilege even though I cannot see it? Because I know that members of the majority religion do not see their privilege; they are quick to point to "that one time" they were individually persecuted and cannot grasp that my religion is perpetually treated as less than. I know that middle class and wealthy people do not see their privilege; they think they worked hard to get what they have and don't understand that I work just as hard for less. I know that most men do not see their privilege. Privilege is not something you directly experience in most cases, although you certainly experience its lack. The relative lack of negative experiences related to my skin color is the same inherent privilege that Christians, men, middle class people enjoy.

Privilege does not mean you were pushed to the front of the line; it means no one was allowed to push you to the back.

This.

And, to the part I bolded -- I was raised a Jew, am now an atheist, am left-handed, oldish, and mildly disabled and disfigured. I have also been dirt-poor.

All of these gave me a bit of the "hmmm, this person's not quite 'regular,' how should I treat her?" experience, and, in some cases, real bigotry and hatred directed at me.

I am also white, and have had hatred directed at me just for that.

For the most part, I saw these events as coming from the bigotry (or general asshole-ness! :D ) of the other person involved.

But I also took those experiences as lessons, showing me a tiny taste of what it might be like to be part of those who don't have the pigment the majority takes as "neutral."

It never occurred to me to think that my ongoing, day-to-day experiences are anything like the effects of institutionalized racism, or complain that any of the ways that I've been rejected as meaning that there is a whole system in place holding me back.

The McIntosh article really does make it clear. Many of these things are still as true now as they were in 1988 (although, I'm happy to say, I think some have improved):

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html

[MyNameIsJonas]

Okay so I have a question about a topic I'm pretty ignorant on but I've seen My nameis jonas bring up. How do you know to call someone black/african american, white/caucasian etc..? I've always referred to Black people as African American, and white as caucasian. My Friend is married to a black man and I asked her one day if her husband refers to himself as black or african american and she told me he doesn't care if people call him black or african american but he refers to himself as black. She went on to say that some blacks will get really upset if you call them African American. Is there a standard default you should go to like calling whites, white and blacks black? And then having just the people who are "straight out of Africa" as African Americans? Then what about the hispanics? Not all Spanish people have that caramel color are they still considered hispanics? I feel so ignorant when it comes to topics like this and the last thing I want to do is offend someone by using the wrong word.

Well I'm black, so I can only speak for that, but Black Americans and African Americans hold a lot of negative stereotypes about each other and some don't want to be associated with the other group in any way. One girl in a class I took was from Nigeria and constantly distinguished herself from the rest of the black kids in the class. It was just funny to me, because looking at her, you wouldn't think "she is from Nigeria." You'd just think she's black. I guess I could say go by what the group calls themselves but I just feel that black, white, etc are all encompassing and people can further distinguish their heritage from there. I think some people are uncomfortable using the term "black" because they think it's offensive.