Breaking MAXWELL news/Liz cancelled the wedding to Joe

[FloraDoraDolly]

I'm glad it was her choice and that she was able to make it...

The same goes for Sarah Reith. In some cultures, the woman (or underaged girl) has NO voice and if she speaks up anyway, the consequences can literally be deadly. At least the fundies haven't reached that level. I hope they never get there.

[Sola]

Wow! I'm floored!

I'm glad though, I'm glad that Elizabeth had the guts to call it off. I feel sorry for Joe, it must be hard for him too.

[justlurking]

So what? Now they pretend it never happened? It did. Own it and learn from it. Maybe, just maybe...

That's what they did when their first son, Nathan, had a failed courtship. As you can see, they didn't learn from that experience. Man, I wish somebody here had taken a screen-shot of the page before they started taking stuff down. Oh well, guess we'll have to rely on the WayBack Machine whenever we reference this event in the future.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Votes on how soon he'll find a replacement woman?

I'm glad for Elizabeth; she deserves a much better life than that.

Pretty much THIIIIS.... it did all just seem so incredibly rushed. I'm not only speaking of the wedding either - the Muncks first went to a Maxwell conference in 2008 when Elizabeth was already 16 (and wearing pants and a hoodie in front of her new car). Only four short years later, she was up and ready to marry a Maxwell, that is quite the lifestyle change. I'm not so terribly surprised if she got cold feet at the end, of the "is this really what I want, or am I just riding down rails set by my father?" variety.

20 is young - plenty of time to just start over.

Under the courtship model love and attraction come after the wedding. Courtship is supposed to be an unemotional time for the couple to learn about each other. Using that standard (as est. by the fundies) why would the two families be hurting per Steve's blog post? They could be chagrined, disappointed, but butt hurt should not enter into the equation.

The Steve-O model of courtship seems to say it's okay to open your heart and start feeling something after the engagement is made, I think. Full on love of the spouse-to-be aside, probably both of them were thinking "okay I'm going to be married now" and all excited over THAT idea, as an abstract concept, if nothing else.

But yeah you'd think "disappointed" would be more in line. I dunno.

[MysteryHaggis]

Holy shit. I am SO HAPPY for her, and weirdly proud of this girl I know virtually nothing about.

I do feel sorry for Joe, only because I would imagine the trauma of the whole system he's been brought up to believe in failing him so utterly will be incredibly deep.

His twisted worldview/that of his family isn't his fault.

I worry slightly that Elizabeth will now struggle to find another husband since she has broken an engagement off before- the best case scenario is of course that she gets out of the courtship model but that probably a bit much to hope for.

Edited to fix typofails

[singsingsing]

I worry slightly that Elizabeth will now struggle to find another husband since she has broken an engagement off before- the best case scenario is of course that she gets out of the courtship model but that probably a bit much to hope for.

I don't know - she's known life before hardcore fundie-ism, after all. When she was a teenager she was wearing jeans. Maybe she's questioning the system. Remember Autumn (the girl who got married at like 16, he turned out to be an abuser, and they divorced and she went back home)? It seems her family isn't doing the courtship thing anymore. She had a boyfriend and I believe one of her brothers had a girlfriend. I know a broken engagement isn't as traumatic as an abusive marriage, but often events like these can really shake people up and make them question if this stuff they're following is really good for anything.

[theologygeek]

Man, I wish somebody here had taken a screen-shot of the page before they started taking stuff down.

Joseph and Elizabeth’s Story

Posted on July 29, 2012 by Joseph

The Story

by Joseph

It has been a very joyous last couple of months for Elizabeth and me, and we wanted to share a little of what the LORD has been doing in our lives. There has been so much going on, and we apologize for not getting this posted sooner. Developing a relationship, remodeling a house, having a normal job, and planning a wedding has seemed to fill up every moment and more of each day!

First, we want to thank you for all of your prayers. We feel them, and they are such a blessing to us. Thank you for your encouragement; it means so much to us! It has been a tremendous faith-building experience to see how and what God has done and is doing, starting back in April.

The Background

We officially “met†Elizabeth’s family when her parents flew to attend a conference in Anaheim, California, several years ago. After that, her family came to a number of our conferences that were closer to their home. At a conference last October, my sisters enjoyed several conversations with Elizabeth and her sisters. Then, in April, our families got together and had a wonderful time fellowshipping with each other in the LORD.

The Courtship

During those days of family interactions and thereafter, the LORD began strongly putting Elizabeth on my heart as the one that He had for me. I prayed about it, and brought it to my dad and mom. After discussing it with them, more prayer, and fasting, we felt God’s leading and His peace.

I then approached Elizabeth’s dad expressing what God was putting on my heart and asking about the possibility of a courtship. Elizabeth’s dad and I had a number of phone conversations over the course of a couple weeks. Quite quickly, the LORD gave Elizabeth’s parents peace to tell Elizabeth about my interest. When they shared that with her, she was very excited.

I visited Elizabeth’s family the end of May. The LORD completely confirmed that she was the one for me during that trip, and she felt the same. We were both ready to start a courtship. Two weeks later, I again flew out, but this time I surprised her. With each passing week, the LORD’s confirmation of our relationship was strengthened.

The Engagement

I kept communication going with Elizabeth’s dad during our courtship, and soon I was asking him for his and Elizabeth’s mom’s blessing and permission for me to propose to her. That was also quickly given plus the blessing from my parents. I was delighted to be able to propose to Elizabeth when our family visited hers the end of June.

Elizabeth and I and our families are so grateful for His confirmation and leading in this relationship. We are extremely excited to see how God is going to use us. Our prayer is that we follow God’s best in everything in our lives together. One of those choices for us has been something you might have noticed in the pictures. We have maintained this courtship and engagement as a “no-touch†relationship (1 Corinthians 7:1). We feel this gives us the opportunity for our hearts and minds to become united without the complication of physical involvement and eliminates the possibility of moral failure in the relationship.

Wedding Plans

And the wedding date? Because Elizabeth and I know our marriage is God’s best, we have really sought His timing for our wedding. This has been a source of much prayer, because of the complications of two busy families. Through prayer and other affirmations, God has amazingly put together the date of August 18th for our wedding.

Thank you all so much for your prayers. You are such a blessing to us!

In Christ,

Joseph and Elizabeth

“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven†(Matthew 5:16).

[Lady Elaine]

Maybe Melanie sent a secret warning letter...

[theologygeek]

here's a shitload of pics <>

[kpmom]

Wow! I go grocery shopping and I come back to this!

I am very surprised. I thought Elizabeth and family had bought into the Maxwell b.s. hook, line, and sinker.

Good for you, Elizabeth.

Two broken courtships (that we know of) in one family... and one only days before the wedding!! Kinda makes you think there might be something wrong with that bunch, doesn't it?

This!

[kpmom]

Maybe Melanie sent a secret warning letter...

And This!

[Jinger_Cat]

OK, as I understand it, their entire "courtship", from beginning to wedding date, was supposed to be about 4 months. Is that right? That's crazy! I wouldn't share a sandwich with someone I'd only been "courting" 4 months, let alone get married! :hand:

[gardenvarietycitizen]

He can rent out the house until he finds a replacement, oops, until the lord places it on some desperate woman's heart to be his wife and join the Maxwell cult.

I wish he had the balls to LIVE in it as a bachelor...

I second others too and say congratulations to Elizabeth for having the courage to call it off if she got cold feet, and NOT be intimidated by the fact that they bought the house and did all the various "investment" in her and all that. MUCH easier and better this way, to realize and get out BEFORE the legal marriage. Surely it hurts, but you'll be better off. Best of luck.

[theologygeek]

There is a lot of stuff. If someone wants to save it all, just follow this link and click on the cache of each result. I doubt it will be available in the cache for long, and they will probably take it out of the wayback machine too. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q ... 80&bih=568

[Deleted03]

well I said it earlier but Joseph and Elizabeth's story was only Joseph's story. Not Elizabeth's. I'm sorry for Joseph who has an asshole for a dad who micromanages his life and won't let him work out his life on his own. I hope that makes him rethink his whole lifestyle.

That's really awesome from a family that tours the country to talk about courtship.

And I wish Elizabeth had had the guts to say something earlier. Yes it's great that she got out of that viper's nest, but man that must have been VERY hard on Joseph. Canceling one week before the wedding?

I think it also shows they all are told to plaster a happy face no matter what.

[justlurking]

Maybe the poor kid tried to give an opinion about how she wanted her home to look, was ignored and realized that her only purpose to the Maxwell's was as an animated piece of interior decoration for Joseph

Well, in one of their posts (which they've since removed) they mentioned that Liz was "allowed" to pick out tiling and paint (possibly?) that she liked for the home. I wonder if they went ahead and integrated her suggestions into their renovations. How will Joe explain to the next girl that the tile in their bathroom was picked out by a former courtee whom he had previously given away a piece of his heart to?

[Witsec7]

They met three fucking times outside of the conferences. :roll:

[Wandering]

This is just another sad reminder that these parents are hurting their children more than they are helping. I guess nobody explained to Steve what "emotional intimacy" is and how expectations (such as expecting to marry this person) can be more devastating when broken than physical intimacy. So proud of Elizabeth and second what others said about how happy they are that she was able to make this decision herself. It took some serious lady balls. I can only pray that this event allows her to re-examine other areas of her life that she may be unhappy with as it did for me. I also wish nothing but happiness for both Elizabeth and Joseph regardless of how they decide they live their lives.

[Deleted07]

I felt all along it was bizarre how they were making up the house without her input etc. I think she saw that that would be her life, daddy Maxwell calling the shots and her having to answer to all of them and be nothing but a prop! Thank "God" she got away!

[Guest Anonymous]

They met three fucking times outside of the conferences. :roll:

Yup, this. When in hell did Elizabeth get chance to cancel before this?

I'm really sorry for Joe that his dad has shit for brains and led him into this, but kudos to Elizabeth for getting out when she could. :)

[anniebgood]

I am glad that she called it off. Maybe she found us and found out what a cruel man Steve really is.

I left this comment which won't get posted:

If the point of a courtship is to meet a person and get to know them, before giving your heart away at marriage, then I think these two young people were rushed into a situation neither of them were prepared for. E never came to KS to see the home J bought, everything was done in a hurry up way. If you are going to spend the rest of your life with someone, then you should have some time before you decide to marry them to see what they are like. Do they burp out loud? Do they put the toilet seat down or leave it up? Do they pitch in to wash dishes when there’s a mess to do? Parents should have the best interest of their children at heart but they aren’t the ones who are going to be married. God works in mysterious ways, and perhaps it’s time to let young people do the meeting on their own terms.

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

so are my ways higher than your ways

and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9

I wish Elizabeth a long and happy life.

[Avalondaughter]

First the Bates courtship ends and now this one. I really hope the young fundies are slowly figuring out this stuff doesn't work.

What's the alternative if they don't? Will fundie parents become so strict that they will force their kids into arranged marriages, making them think that something terrible will happen if they don't comply?

[twin2]

There is a lot of stuff. If someone wants to save it all, just follow this link and click on the cache of each result. I doubt it will be available in the cache for long, and they will probably take it out of the wayback machine too. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q ... 80&bih=568

Looks like its been scrubbed clean.

[jesssnerch]

This is what happens when people think they have to be married just to fuck.

[OkToBeTakei]

Feel very sorry for both of them. Both victims. So public as well.

Fundies...doing it wrong. Stop preaching and think of the real feelings involved. You are hurting your nearest and dearest to perpetuate an ideal :(