Florida High School Shooting

[Destiny]

58 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

It IS terrorism, but according to most republicans only brown people can be terrorists. 

QFT. It's sad, because it's so obvious. white people are mentally ill. the brown ones are terrorists. Damn near every time.

[Rachel333]

Someone had also notified the FBI months ago about a Youtube comment from someone with the same name as the shooter. https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/nikolas-cruz-fbi-warned/index.html

Also, here's a very thorough refutation of InfoWars lies about the shooter: 

 

[louisa05]

I don't know why this one is hitting me so hard. It's not like there hasn't been school shooting after school shooting. It's not like i haven't heard all the gun people's post-shooting nonsense before. But this one is really hitting me. 

On a relative's Facebook, people started arguing about gun control. Someone basically said that some dead high school kids (and teachers) is the "cost of freedom". Because there are really people out there who care more about their fucking guns than human lives. Than my life. I read that while sitting in a classroom. I can't comprehend this anymore. How can people say that? And how can they just repeat it when a teacher (me) says "Hold on, you mean me. You mean the 20 kids that are on their way back from lunch to come in my room in a few minutes.". How do you double down on that? 

How is it normal that when I come into a new classroom as a sub, one of the things I do is look around to locate the doors and windows and figure out where to hide with the kids if there is a lockdown? How is it okay that when I was in a third grade classroom on the day of a lockdown drill an 8 year old could explain solemnly that "we have to do this in case someone wants to come in and kill us"? 

I can't take this anymore. I can't take it anymore that this is okay with so many people, that doing something about it is considered wrong and "taking away freedom". What about the freedom of all the thousands of victims every damn year to live their lives? What about my freedom to not have to be afraid to go to work? What about kids' freedom to learn in peace without fear? 

[ViolaSebastian]

If I can get on my soapbox for a moment, no one except Trump has claimed that this guy has a mental illness. I haven't read that there's any indication of him being diagnosed with one prior to the incident--and typically that'll come out if it's a factor, like it did with the shooting in Aurora. It pisses me off that he's making all this about mental illness, and not the growing numbers of young, white men who are turning to the alt-right and white supremacy. And of course, it's never about access to guns, either.

[Fascinated]

@louisa05, I’m so sorry you have to work in what has become a targeted environment. It must be horrific having to go through drills with young children, or students of any age. I believe it was a mistake by the media to have revealed that he pulled the fire alarm in order to have the students swarming into the hallways. Or perhaps now fire drills will have to be re-evaluated. 

How would gun control work?  I don’t see most gun holders complying with an order to turn in their assault rifles. They need them for when the government arrives at their doors with their guns to forcibly remove them. I just think there are too many out there, apparently enough for every man, woman and child in the country. I think the solution lies more in the restriction and forced registration of all ammunition purchases.  Again, though, is it too late?

[luv2laugh]

4 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

Now it's being called HFA. Because every kid with maladaptive behavior has autism, ya know. 

I remember they kept going on and on about Sandy Hook shooter *possibly* having Asperger’s. People that have HFA or mental illness are not usually violent. Violence is not the same thing. The key is to regulate weapons that cause violence NOT blame people who have mental illness!!!

Besides, all these Republicans don’t care about services for the mentally ill anyway so it’s amusing to keep hearing them say “It’s ALL about mental health!”

[Mela99]

Guys the solution is simple! Kids need more discipline!

DH has right wing relatives. Posted this and I lost it.

[Jinder Roles]

@Mela99   Well actually, throughout U.S. history there have been many massacres but just of indigenous people, black people and other minorities so I guess it doesn't count. (i.e.: Wounded Knee, Rosewood Massacre, Colfax Massacre etc.) 

It's astonishing that all these gun-lovers don't realize how disturbing it is that their idea of freedom and 'greatness' is based on the threat and necessity of violence. It makes sense, because that's how the U.S. was developed. But damn, don't they realize their "we must protect ourselves against the enemy" is outdated and based on their fucked up history. 

Also people saying maintaining a well-managed militia gives people power against tyrannical government....the government has nuclear weapons, a massive army and other military grade weapons. 

[new espadrille]

4 hours ago, louisa05 said:

 

If I’m expected to be armed, I’m done.

I saw the suggestion today that we have five armed guards per 100 students in every school. This small preK-12 building would have over 40 armed guards. That’s not a learning community. It’s a prison camp. And never mind how we pay for it. When asked, the person said “parents and grandparents who love their children will pay for it”. I’m currently sitting in a tiny classroom in a “temporary structure “ because those same parents and grandparents won’t approve a bond issue to build adequate facilities.

But the damn second amendment is more important to these assholes than logic or children and teachers’s lives.

 

WTF.

[mamallama]

I'm good with blaming mental illness so long as the primary symptoms of the specific mental illnes they're concerned with are buying a shit ton of guns, buying military guns and joining white supremicist groups.  Oh and hurting animals and domestic abuse.

[quiversR4hunting]

4 hours ago, Fascinated said:

How would gun control work?  I don’t see most gun holders complying with an order to turn in their assault rifles. They need them for when the government arrives at their doors with their guns to forcibly remove them. I just think there are too many out there, apparently enough for every man, woman and child in the country. I think the solution lies more in the restriction and forced registration of all ammunition purchases.  Again, though, is it too late?

Here is my idea. Not perfect but a start. 

First, the laws must be nationwide. DC & Chicago prove laws don’t work when a person can just walk over a border and get a gun. On to what I will be writing my congressmen and women: Make bump stocks illegal. Gun manufacturers cannot create guns easily convertible to an automatic gun (like they do now, hence bump stocks). Every gun is sold with trigger locks, not as an add-on. Cartridges cannot hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. If you are hunter and can’t hit what you are hunting with 10 bullets, you really need to go to the gun range and practice. If you are sport target shooter then it shouldn’t be a big deal to reload after 10 rounds. Background checks and licenses for all owners. If a gun is used by multiple people (like families do for hunting, all must be screened and on the license.) Every gun is registered. If a gun is to be handed down to the next generation, the new owner must have a background check, get licensed and register changed to the new owner (much like transferring a title of a car). Every seller (pawn shop, gun shop, gun shows, and private seller) must follow the same rules, background checks, licenses, etc.  Anyone convicted with a violent crime will be forever banned from owning a gun. Concealed weapon and open carry permits - the people requesting the permits will go through a background check (if it hasn’t been done recently) and they must finish all the same training police officers go through and they must train continually and pass the tests just like police officers. As an example, this is from NY - Basic School qualification requires the recruit to score 84% or higher on each of three consecutive runs of the pistol qualification course. Pistol qualification requires a minimum proficiency score of 84%, at specified distances and within established time limits; shotgun qualification requires 80% proficiency. In addition, all Basic School trainees must pass a comprehensive written examination with a minimum score of 80%. I can’t find how often the police need to train and recertify but that would be put into place for any civilian that wants to conceal carry or open carry.

[Shadoewolf]

There's Tomi Lahren. She makes my stomach churn. 

[47of74]

34 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

There's Tomi Lahren. She makes my stomach churn. 

Reich wingers love her because she's as nasty and mean as they are and attacks young people too.  Particularly the perv division of the reich wing many of whom are old enough to be her grandfather and have her queued up in their internal fantasy play list.   

[EyesOpen]

Welp. Alienated some friends and family on Facebook cause I said I had to pull over cause I couldn’t see or breathe hearing about kids texting their parents goodbye and why couldn’t our nation at least look at changing something that has been defunded and not changed in a decade or more since this doesn’t seem to be working... mentioned I was afraid for my kids and their teachers... Found out a lot of people care way more about winning an internet argument on FB than dead kids... my eyes continue to open...

[JMarie]

4 hours ago, Mela99 said:

Guys the solution is simple! Kids need more discipline!

DH has right wing relatives. Posted this and I lost it.

As awful as the (mis)"inforrmed folks" are, I have known parents who couldn't think of punishing their children, their precious well-behaved children, because their lovely offspring would never ever be capable of doing whatever heinous act they're accused of.  Not their children!  Their children are bottle-feeding orphan birds and helping elderly women cross busy intersections, in addition to playing varsity sports and having a schedule full of Advanced Placement classes.

[Shadoewolf]

Umm that is my kid!! But it's rescue puppies instead of birds and helping autistic kids instead of elderly women. But I know she isn't perfect. She freaked out a sub so badly the lady transferred to another district and has been known to be overly snarky even with those in authority. Difference is I will ground her, take her phone and laptop away, etc. 

[47of74]

37 minutes ago, JMarie said:

As awful as the (mis)"inforrmed folks" are, I have known parents who couldn't think of punishing their children, their precious well-behaved children, because their lovely offspring would never ever be capable of doing whatever heinous act they're accused of.  Not their children!  Their children are bottle-feeding orphan birds and helping elderly women cross busy intersections, in addition to playing varsity sports and having a schedule full of Advanced Placement classes.

Yeah, reich wing fucksticks will say anything to deflect attention away from the real cause of the rise in mass shootings and flood the airwaves with bullshit.  They flood the airwaves about children not being disciplined enough or the like.  

Said fucksticks really ought to try reading books instead of burning them.  They might be surprised to learn that once upon a time our own government once said this; 

Quote

The Court cannot take judicial notice that a shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches long has today any reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, and therefore cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees to the citizen the right to keep and bear such a weapon.

In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense.

United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939).

Of course that was before District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008) where the Court did a complete 180 and pretty much let people run wild with guns.

And these reich wing gunsplainer fucksticks will never want to admit that it's their fetishization of the gun and opposition to any regulation of firearms whatsoever that is partially to blame for this and every other mass shooting here in the US. 

 

[SamuraiKatz]

Here is my idea. Not perfect but a start. 
First, the laws must be nationwide. DC & Chicago prove laws don’t work when a person can just walk over a border and get a gun. On to what I will be writing my congressmen and women: Make bump stocks illegal. Gun manufacturers cannot create guns easily convertible to an automatic gun (like they do now, hence bump stocks). Every gun is sold with trigger locks, not as an add-on. Cartridges cannot hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition. If you are hunter and can’t hit what you are hunting with 10 bullets, you really need to go to the gun range and practice. If you are sport target shooter then it shouldn’t be a big deal to reload after 10 rounds. Background checks and licenses for all owners. If a gun is used by multiple people (like families do for hunting, all must be screened and on the license.) Every gun is registered. If a gun is to be handed down to the next generation, the new owner must have a background check, get licensed and register changed to the new owner (much like transferring a title of a car). Every seller (pawn shop, gun shop, gun shows, and private seller) must follow the same rules, background checks, licenses, etc.  Anyone convicted with a violent crime will be forever banned from owning a gun. Concealed weapon and open carry permits - the people requesting the permits will go through a background check (if it hasn’t been done recently) and they must finish all the same training police officers go through and they must train continually and pass the tests just like police officers. As an example, this is from NY - Basic School qualification requires the recruit to score 84% or higher on each of three consecutive runs of the pistol qualification course. Pistol qualification requires a minimum proficiency score of 84%, at specified distances and within established time limits; shotgun qualification requires 80% proficiency. In addition, all Basic School trainees must pass a comprehensive written examination with a minimum score of 80%. I can’t find how often the police need to train and recertify but that would be put into place for any civilian that wants to conceal carry or open carry.

I agree with every thing you suggest. I would like to see heavy tariffs and excise taxes on these weapons and the ammunition.

Additionally I think you should have to have liability insurance to own one of these guns.

Finally, the minimum age to purchase a fire arm should be 21. No one should be able to buy an assault weapon before they csn legally buy beer.

[Toothfairy]

This shit is ridiculous. Funny, a white male shoots up a school and kills people he's mentally ill. Not he's evil. 

[Ozlsn]

7 hours ago, Fascinated said:

How would gun control work?  I don’t see most gun holders complying with an order to turn in their assault rifles. They need them for when the government arrives at their doors with their guns to forcibly remove them. I just think there are too many out there, apparently enough for every man, woman and child in the country. I think the solution lies more in the restriction and forced registration of all ammunition purchases.  Again, though, is it too late?

I would start by computerising the National Trace Registry, and requiring all purchases - whether via a shop or privately - to be registered there. Yes this would mean the Ebil Guvmit knows what guns you have - but they already know what car(s) you have, and if they really wanted to slow people down they'd confiscate them instead. As a bonus it would make weapon tracing in the event of a crime much easier and faster than the current "search through boxes of paper and/or microfiche" method. 

More seriously I like Jim Wright of Stonekettle Station's ideas - not least because it hoists the NRA by their own words and uses them to change the culture again.

http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/06/bang-bang-sanity.html?m=1

[quiversR4hunting]

6 hours ago, SamuraiKatz said:

Finally, the minimum age to purchase a fire arm should be 21. No one should be able to buy an assault weapon before they csn legally buy beer.

I get your point but I don't agree. I think hunting guns can be purchased earlier than 21. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

9 hours ago, mamallama said:

I'm good with blaming mental illness so long as the primary symptoms of the specific mental illnes they're concerned with are buying a shit ton of guns, buying military guns and joining white supremicist groups.  Oh and hurting animals and domestic abuse.

As I often say, assholery and evilness aren't mental illnesses.

[VelociRapture]

I’m really sick of reading about all these shootings. It’s not even surprising anymore. I just read an article about how a Washington State Grandmother turned in her 18 year old grandson after she found a notebook he kept with a detailed plan for shooting up his High School. I can’t even imagine how horrible that must have been for her and I’m so grateful she took responsibl action, but for fuck’s sake! What the actual fuck! 

Something has to be done. People with domestic abuse in their background should not be able to purchase firearms. People who have a history of violent threats should not have access to firearms. People should not be able to take firearms across state lines if those firearms aren’t allowed in those states. Background checks need to be a thing nationwide, along with waiting periods. Bump stocks should not be allowed and neither should military grade weaponry. Buying a gun in any state should be harder and more time consuming then buying fucking cough syrup at the store. None of this will stop every single incident from occurring, but it stands a good chance of preventing a lot of them. Anyone with a soul and a conscience should understand that saving lives is far more important then being able to buy whatever firearm you want right when you want it. 

But of course, I say all this in vain. Because we have no chance at all of passing any sort of laws until Republicans are no longer in control of Congress and the White House. So we all better just grit our teeth and wait for the next batch of dead kids to pop up on our screens because it’s guaranteed to happen soon enough without changes. 

[smittykins]

14 hours ago, Mela99 said:

Guys the solution is simple! Kids need more discipline!

DH has right wing relatives. Posted this and I lost it.

Don’t forget “we need God/prayer back in our schools.”  And we have to go through our kids’ rooms/backpacks on a regular basis. “Their lives are not their own until they move out”(direct quote).

[Screamapillar]

A fundie lite relative of mine posted this. She got dozens of "AMEN!" and "People NEED JESUS!!!!!" comments on it.