Florida High School Shooting

[onekidanddone]

8 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I wonder how many murdered children will be enough for the NRA and Republicans? 

Not even if it was one of their own.

[TeddyBonkers]

I've heard enough about "arming teachers". My 10th grade geometry teacher kept a bottle of Wild Turkey in his desk. He'd be more likely to pull that thing out than a handgun.

AND ANOTHER THING. Handguns are notoriously difficult to aim, even in stress-less situations. If I had a handgun and had to take out someone with a rifle, I'd be fucked and I know it. There's a reason that Mr. Bonkers got rid of his Glock (for home defense-he was young and dumb when he got it) and replaced it with a shotgun.

We already ask so much of teachers-we can't ask them to be armed guards too.

[onekidanddone]

5 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I wonder how many murdered children will be enough for the NRA and Republicans? 

It shouldn't take any, but if room full of 1st graders wasn't the final straw, nothign will be.

[Chocolatedefrauded]

I guess these jackasses expect that public school teachers are all expert marksman, on top of all the other things they must do! And that no gun will accidentally discharge, or some stupid kid will try to steal it & accidentally shoot someone.

No parent that I know expects teachers to act as a bodyguard. 

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

This last mass shooting has hit a little bit close to home for me. My cousin was hiding in that school and because he was luckily in a building across campus from the shooting, he was one of the last to be released by SWAT. My aunt and grandma live within a mile from the school and I was worried for them when the shooter was at large. The following days my Facebook was filled with shared posts from my family of parents looking for their children, which were followed by RIP posts from my family's friends for their children. My family has gone to several funerals and sat Shiva with their friends who had to bury their children. My cousin posted her yearbook from 2016 including David Hogg's picture to prove he was a student as of two years ago, and not some "leftist ploy for gun control". I have been having nightmares of being shot in public, and I live way up the east coast so far removed from what those poor kids have gone though. I can't even imagine what my cousin and his 3,000 peers are going through. 

I used to identify as fiscally conservative, in favor of a smaller government, whilst being socially liberal. Because of this, I typically voted Republican as a teenager into my early twenties (I did NOT vote for Trump). I know I can never vote this way again, that there is too much at stake. I am so proud of all the Parkland students (and other Florida students standing with them in solidarity) of not letting this be forgotten. I am so empowered by their activism and demand for change. I am hopeful for future generations and their unwillingness to stand idly by, waiting for the "adults" to spur change. I haven't felt this much hope during this presidency as I do right now, and it has little to do with the people who are in Washington.

I’m so very sorry your family has been touched by this. I hope your cousin, Aunt, and Grandma are doing as ok as possible right now. 

And I totally get you on that fear. It’s ridiculous to me that I always find myself looking for exits and hiding places when I’m somewhere a mass shooting might take place. It’s also ridiculous - and terrifying - that I end up picturing truly horrible things happening to my 14 month old that I can’t protect her from, all because a minority of gun owners are holding the rest of us hostage. We shouldn’t have to live like this and I’m just so tired and infuriated about it all. 

On 2/21/2018 at 9:20 PM, Rachel333 said:

Anyone watching the CNN town hall right now? It is intense and these people are not going to let Rubio off easy.

This story has actually stayed in the news longer than I expected. Something does seem to be different this time and I hope it leads to real change.

This time is different because the teenage survivors are the ones speaking out so passionately. It’s easy to dismiss an adult speaking out on their own behalf or the behalf of a murdered loved one, but it’s much harder to dismiss wellspoken and intelligent minors. The usual tactics are likely backfiring simply because they’re directing their hate and lies at children. I may not agree with many gun owners on gun control or the second amendment, but I do think that crosses a line for a lot of Americans (whether or not they own guns.) I think the NRA and their fanatics are lashing out as much as they are because they honestly don’t know how best to effectively undermine these teens. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, TeddyBonkers said:

I've heard enough about "arming teachers". My 10th grade geometry teacher kept a bottle of Wild Turkey in his desk. He'd be more likely to pull that thing out than a handgun.

AND ANOTHER THING. Handguns are notoriously difficult to aim, even in stress-less situations. If I had a handgun and had to take out someone with a rifle, I'd be fucked and I know it. There's a reason that Mr. Bonkers got rid of his Glock (for home defense-he was young and dumb when he got it) and replaced it with a shotgun.

We already ask so much of teachers-we can't ask them to be armed guards too.

I know many teachers. Exactly none of them want to be responsible for carrying a firearm while at work. There are many reasons, but a few are:

1. Who pays for it? Does the school district pay for the guns, ammo, licenses, and time at the shooting range? Or is this yet another expense for their classrooms that they’ll be responsible for?

2. Will the district cover liability insurance in the event the gun accidentally discharges and harms a student? What about liability insurance if an emergency occurs and the teacher accidentally injures or kills the wrong student while trying to protect their kids?

3. What about the emotional toll of knowing you may not just have to kill to protect your kids, but that you may have to kill one of your students because they’re trying to kill you and your students?

4. How will the teacher be protected from the police? The more armed individuals present during a shooting the more likely it is that the wrong person will be identified as a threat. What will prevent police from accidentally shooting an innocent teacher?

5. How will teachers carry the weapons during the day? Are they supposed to strap it to their hip? Or their back? How is that supposed to make anyone in the classroom feel safe? Or maybe they should store it in their desk? But then what good is it if the teacher isn’t right at their desk when a shooter charges in? 

There are SO MANY problems with the whole “arm the teachers” solution. It already pisses me off beyond belief that people expect my pregnant sister to sacrifice herself and her unborn child to protect her students - leaving her 2 year old motherless by the way - but insisting she should carry a gun as well because they don’t want to sacrifice their guns just infuriates me. Everyone focuses on the students’ right to live and I absolutely agree on that, but my sister has that right too and she also has a right to feel fucking safe in her workplace. 

[Gemini]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43173753

Just read that some firms are starting to cut ties with NRA due to consumer boycotts.

 

America, your youth are incredible and you should be so proud! The way they have reacted and are fighting back is truly inspirational! 

 

[front hugs > duggs]

I work for a large corporation mentioned in that article. While I’m glad that we cut ties, I wish I could say it was for the moral reason. Really it was a result of bad publicity, but I’ll take what I can get. 

My uncle is a responsible gun owner. He hunts pheasants mostly. He gets a copy of American Hunter, a magazine produced by the NRA for its members. Page two in his last issue has a page full of AR 15s and large magazines for sale. He acknowledge that stuff isn’t for hunting animals - you miss on your first shot or two and the animal is gone. He’s had enough and is revoking his NRA membership. 

[ADoyle90815]

My opinion is that guns like the AR 15 are designed for a single purpose, to kill as many humans as possible. If one feels they need one to hunt, they're really crappy hunters. Someone on my Facebook friends list pointed out the phrase "well regulated" in the text of the Second Amendment, so gun control  legislation really is Constitutional, especially things like background checks, and banning those convicted of certain crimes from owning firearms.

[47of74]

3 hours ago, ADoyle90815 said:

My opinion is that guns like the AR 15 are designed for a single purpose, to kill as many humans as possible. If one feels they need one to hunt, they're really crappy hunters. Someone on my Facebook friends list pointed out the phrase "well regulated" in the text of the Second Amendment, so gun control  legislation really is Constitutional, especially things like background checks, and banning those convicted of certain crimes from owning firearms.

Up until DC vs Heller that was the general thought of the government as well, that the US government was within its rights to regulate firearms.  Of course Scalia and the other conservative justices on the court couldn't wait to do their NRA buddies and gun manufacturers a solid and strip all that away.  

And here's the latest bit of fuck-stickery courtesy the NRA

Quote

At a town hall on Wednesday night, the survivors of the shooting in Parkland, Florida, made Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) squirm with a series of pointed questions about his support for the Second Amendment. One question that drew particularly loud cheers came from Cameron Kasky, when he asked Rubio, “Can you tell me right now that you will not accept a single donation from the NRA?”

But while the crowd at the town hall may have forcefully backed Kasky, the 17-year-old has been subject to a different reception online, where he says he’s encountered vicious smears and death threats.

The trolling has gotten so bad that, earlier in the day, Kasky said he was taking some time off Facebook because “the death threats from the NRA cultists are a bit more graphic than those on Twitter.”

Kasky isn’t the only teenager getting death threats for their activism against the NRA. David Hogg, also 17, has fiercely advocated on television for improved gun control laws in the wake of the mass shooting which left seventeen of his classmates and teachers dead. Over the last week, he has been a central target for conspiracy theorists believing that he is in fact not a student but a “crisis actor”. One video claiming Hogg was an actor got more than 200,000 views and was the top trending video on YouTube before it was taken down.

Since I wrote a letter to the editor within the last 30 days I have to wait a bit but you can bet your ass once the time period expires I'm going to express a few four letter words against the NRA and their groupies.  Local, state, and national. 

[neurogirl]

I have several family members who like to hunt game and have hunting rifles. I don't feel comfortable with that personally but they are so responsible at gun-owning that I have never seen their guns and don't even know where they are. They are conservative, which is problematic for many reasons, but in terms of gun safety/attitudes I can't fault them. 

HOWEVER my cousin has been posting nearly hourly memes on facebook about "share if you're proud of the 2nd amendment" and "they can't take our guns away" and worse, "some kids are crying so we are going to take away your guns." WTFFFFFFFFFFFFF I messaged him very respectfully saying no one is going to take your hunting rifle away but there is no guaranteed right to have any and all possible guns, and we should really work on controlling military-grade weapons because the right to bear arms does not come before children's rights to feel safe GETTING AN EDUCATION. He replied that the 2nd amendment was actually written TO make sure the populace had military-grade weapons to protect us from a tyrannical government. When I said that guns had changed and rules should change to, he said no and that bad people would still look up how to make bombs, etc. 

I just....I didn't realize some of my own family members felt this way, enough to have the NRA-sponsored answers ready for gun-control arguments. I have thought that they are good people. And this cousin used to be someone I deeply looked up to and admired immensely. But I just can't feel those same feelings anymore when he's sharing "political cartoons" that compare sympathy with teenage gun violence victims to being Redcoats (the villains of the political cartoon) and on the wrong side of freedom. Like what the actual fuck would make someone think its ok to share that? I really really really don't know how our country can reconcile the clearly two Americas that exist and it scares me.

[Ozlsn]

5 hours ago, neurogirl said:

<cut>... we should really work on controlling military-grade weapons because the right to bear arms does not come before children's rights to feel safe GETTING AN EDUCATION. He replied that the 2nd amendment was actually written TO make sure the populace had military-grade weapons to protect us from a tyrannical government. <cut>

This argument seriously both cracks me up and drives me nuts. Has he seen the hardware the US military has these days? I mean really, does he think asymmetrical warfare in Afghanistan developed because the jihadists had sub-standard weapons? These guys with their hero fantasies of taking down the government by force, seriously. They'll be the ones setting the roadside bombs, trying to ambush and escape - all the same things people fighting a force with better technology do and have done for millenia. The difference now is the technology gap is huge - they can spot you, send in a missile and blow you off the face of the planet before you even knew you were made. 

And just while I'm semi-ranting here - how would he feel about privately owned tanks? How about rocket launchers? Small thermonuclear devices? I mean if the populace are supposed to keep up with technology in order to overthrow the government why not, right?

[Ozlsn]

Also an interview with Joe Hockey, Australia's ambassador to the US and previously a member of the party and government (it was bipartisan) that brought in the legislation restricting certain types of arms in Australia in the wake of the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/02/australia-ambassador-on-why-gun-laws-cant-save-america/553655/

Personally I think he is now wrong, and the ground has shifted - but even if he's right, does that social change he describes at the end sound really dystopian to anyone else? Seriously, I'd prefer legislating gun regulations to armed cameras on every street corner!!

[47of74]

And here's that fuck stick James Woods sitting in judgment over the survivors. 

He needs to mind his own goddamn business.  It's none of his fucking business how the survivors choose to mourn.  

   

 

 

[Rachel333]

Ugh, I hate people who do that. The Sandy Hook deniers love to point to a video of Robbie Parker laughing just before talking to the media a day after his daughter was murdered as proof that he's an actor because they don't think anyone truly grieving would laugh.

My cousin died a few years ago and I was at his parents' house a few days later. They were laughing and telling jokes as they usually do, but they also looked suddenly years older and like they hadn't slept in days. They were definitely grieving, but laughing was part of how they coped. I've met a few other people too who had lost a child in the past year and while you could definitely tell how broken they were from the loss, they all would still smile and laugh at times.

I think it's so despicable for people to judge strangers on how they think they should be acting after a loss.

[mango_fandango]

Sooooo the NRA has sued Florida. Yep.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43352078

FFS. It’s not like guns have been banned entirely... 

[Ozlsn]

6 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

Sooooo the NRA has sued Florida. Yep.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43352078

FFS. It’s not like guns have been banned entirely... 

Damn those politicans who won't stay bought!!

Seriously if the NRA's "18 is adult for almost all purposes" argument works then I think the alcohol lobby should sue too. 

[onekidanddone]

Email blast from my kids middle school.  17 seconds? Really? Yes, it is better than just ignoring it, but 17 seconds sounds awful short.

Good morning **** Middle School Community,

The February 14 tragedy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, FL continues to weigh heavily on the minds of our students and staff. Some of our **** Middle School students have informed me of their interest in participating in a walkout on March 14th. The walkout is being discussed nationally to commemorate the 17 victims of the school shooting and advocate for  laws to protect schools and students.

We respect and support the right of our students to advocate for causes that are important them. We understand that students may be feeling increased anxiety, fear and anger about this issue and we want you to know that we have staff and resources in place to support our students as they process what is happening in the world around them.

While we support student advocacy, we want students to engage in the civic process while at school, in a supportive and safe environment. Therefore, we have developed a plan for March 14th that will give students an opportunity to express their views while remaining safe on our campus. In the morning, during our announcement period, students will engage in an activity that commemorates the victims in the Florida tragedy. In the afternoon, we plan to do a structured walkout, in a fire drill format, and gather on the athletic fields (weather permitting) at ****. Once we’ve organized on the field, we will then have 17 seconds of silence for the victims in Florida. We will then return inside the building in an orderly fashion and resume classes for the day.

There may be a few students who express a desire to leave campus to participate in the March in Washington, D.C. on that day. However, we ask that you speak with your child to let them know that if they leave the school building or walk out of class outside of the designated time, it will be considered an unexcused absence. Information about the impact of an unexcused absence can be found in A Guide to Students Rights and Responsibilities.

We understand that students feel very strongly, as do we, about school safety. We are committed to working together to provide them with opportunities to express their opinions in a safe environment.

Thank you for your continued support. If you have any questions or concerns, you can contact the school at ###-###-####.

 

Sincerely,

***** Principal

[Ozlsn]

7 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Email blast from my kids middle school.  17 seconds? Really? Yes, it is better than just ignoring it, but 17 seconds sounds awful short.

Good morning **** Middle School Community,

The February 14 tragedy at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, FL continues to weigh heavily on the minds of our students and staff. Some of our **** Middle School students have informed me of their interest in participating in a walkout on March 14th. The walkout is being discussed nationally to commemorate the 17 victims of the school shooting and advocate for  laws to protect schools and students.

We respect and support the right of our students to advocate for causes that are important them. We understand that students may be feeling increased anxiety, fear and anger about this issue and we want you to know that we have staff and resources in place to support our students as they process what is happening in the world around them.

While we support student advocacy, we want students to engage in the civic process while at school, in a supportive and safe environment. Therefore, we have developed a plan for March 14th that will give students an opportunity to express their views while remaining safe on our campus. In the morning, during our announcement period, students will engage in an activity that commemorates the victims in the Florida tragedy. In the afternoon, we plan to do a structured walkout, in a fire drill format, and gather on the athletic fields (weather permitting) at ****. Once we’ve organized on the field, we will then have 17 seconds of silence for the victims in Florida. We will then return inside the building in an orderly fashion and resume classes for the day.

There may be a few students who express a desire to leave campus to participate in the March in Washington, D.C. on that day. However, we ask that you speak with your child to let them know that if they leave the school building or walk out of class outside of the designated time, it will be considered an unexcused absence. Information about the impact of an unexcused absence can be found in A Guide to Students Rights and Responsibilities.

We understand that students feel very strongly, as do we, about school safety. We are committed to working together to provide them with opportunities to express their opinions in a safe environment.

Thank you for your continued support. If you have any questions or concerns, you can contact the school at ###-###-####.

 

Sincerely,

***** Principal

17 minutes would be better. Or silence for the duration of the shooting time. 

Also... just let the kids protest - a structured fire drill does not really sound like a walkout to me. Unless they can carry signs?

[Ali]

17 seconds is not enough.

The high school I student teach at told us to remain neutral and let the students do what they feel like they need to do. We are supposed to mark them absent if they are not in class and they don't plan to punish any of the students who protest.

The school district my daughter is in will not punish any high schoolers who remain on school property while they protest. There will be adults monitoring them while they are outside for 17 minutes. 

[adidas]

https://mobile.twitter.com/_notorious_bng/status/968204553345642496

You can do this, America. More people are starting to speak up. 

Sorry! Wrong link. Clearly I read the article and clicked on her Twitter. 

https://www.9news.com.au/world/2018/03/09/14/20/nra-veteran-ex-marine-kyleanne-hunter-gun-reform

[louisa05]

On 3/10/2018 at 10:34 PM, Ali said:

17 seconds is not enough.

The high school I student teach at told us to remain neutral and let the students do what they feel like they need to do. We are supposed to mark them absent if they are not in class and they don't plan to punish any of the students who protest.

The school district my daughter is in will not punish any high schoolers who remain on school property while they protest. There will be adults monitoring them while they are outside for 17 minutes. 

This is what should happen. @onekidanddone's district is doing exactly what adults need to avoid doing: taking this movement away from the students. That has been my fear all along that adults, whether it be school admins/teachers/staff or those invested in national organizations working for gun control or simply parents, will take this over and muffle their voices. A far left wing nutcase friend of mine put up an impassioned plea for adults to take over a few weeks ago all over her social media and the number of people who agreed with her was appalling. According to her, teens are "too fragile" for all of this. Ugh. 

One of my two districts is on spring break today (scheduled on the academic calendar over a year ago, so not any reaction or avoidance). I have no idea what the other is doing, but considering how over-protective they are, I'm sure their reaction is to ban or take over any student initiated protest. They have their buildings on permanent lockdown since Parkland as it is. 

[onekidanddone]

44 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

This is what should happen. @onekidanddone's district is doing exactly what adults need to avoid doing: taking this movement away from the students.

My 14 year old called the 17 seconds "walk out"  bull shit.  Kids know.

[onekidanddone]

Isn't there some line in the Christian Bible 

"And the little children shall lead"?. 

 

[onekidanddone]

Talked to my kid about her school's orchestrated "walk out". They all had to march out side as they would in a fire drill, line up, stand there for a whopping 17 seconds and then the principal told them to go back inside. Daughter said all the kids knew it was total bullshit. So, just about the entire school walked to the athletic field formed a circle and stood there for 17 minutes.  Principal didn't punish them. I mean was he really going to give the entire school detention? 

She also told me they have been having more lock down and shelter in place drills. They practice where to hide in each classroom. This is what they teach now. Duck and cover 2.0. And now is it Ohio or Indiana where they want to permit teachers and kids to bring long guns to school?

Fuck you NRA. Fuck you Trump. Fuck.