Mike Pence: Almost as bad as Trump but he might not get us killed

[Audrey2]

@AmazonGrace, of course it's a baseless allegation. Trump's affair doesn't matter to his base. She's white and blond and well endowed, so it's totally okay. Now, if it were a Democrat... Castrate him, impeach him, and lock him up.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Audrey2

[AmazonGrace]

12 minutes ago, GrumpyGran said:

How could he possibly know that it didn't happen? It's not as if he was hanging out with Dumpy at the time. I think for his own ambitious goals he should have kept his mouth shut. He could possibly lose some support from people who were holding their nose about Dump with the hope that there will be impeachment or that Pencey could take over in 2020.

No doubt some of the supporters are quite likely to think it's a lie because all  porn stars (most women, in fact) are lying Jezebels but to me it's bad optics because it makes Pence look so gullible. He's the fourth monkey, the one who sees no evil, hears no evil, speaks no evil and is unable to comprehend  the concept of evil. Flynn? Mike knows nothing. Manafort? Mike knows nothing. Russian adoptions? Mike knows nothing. Trump sexcapades? Shh Mother might hear.

[AnywhereButHere]

What's really gross is, I can see Pence and Mother discussing said sexcapades over their evening tea. Tsk tsking to the best of their ability in their most holier than thou voices but in reality completely enjoying all the salacious details.

 

 

It's probably what passes for foreplay in house Pence...

Edited January 22, 2018 by AnywhereButHere

[GrumpyGran]

32 minutes ago, AnywhereButHere said:

What's really gross is, I can see Pence and Mother discussing said sexcapades over their evening tea. Tsk tsking to the best of their ability in their most holier than thou voices but in reality completely enjoying all the salacious details.

 

 

It's probably what passes for foreplay in house Pence...

I think it's more a case of his denial being for her benefit. His ambition may be out-pacing his love for Mother. If he gives her a denial and some "women like that" explanation, she won't demand that he resign from being the Devil's acolyte. Of course she's conveniently looking the other way, too. I doubt they have an honest discusion about it. He's openly ambitious but she's enjoying the power more than she wants to admit.

[GreyhoundFan]

I guess mother hasn't taught Pencey to treat women well: "Female journalists covering Pence in Israel forced to stand behind male colleagues"

Spoiler

JERUSALEM — If there’s one thing female journalists covering the trip of Vice President Pence to Israel will remember it is the “special treatment” they received, first by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s security detail and second, in their “unique” vantage point while covering Pence's visit to the Western Wall on Tuesday.

At Netanyahu’s office on Monday morning, a visiting female journalist from Finland’s state television was asked to remove her bra during an overly zealous and demeaning security check. When she refused, the journalist — who is of Palestinian descent — was prevented from covering Pence's news conference with Netanyahu.

Then, on Tuesday, female journalists were particularly perturbed to discover that they had been relegated to covering Pence’s spiritual stop at the Western Wall, one of Judaism’s holiest sites, from the other side of a fence.

In response to inquiries about the matter, Pence spokeswoman Alyssa Farah said in a statement: “Every effort was made to accommodate both female and male journalists while observing the rules in place at the Western Wall.”

The Western Wall — the outer wall of the raised esplanade that is called the Temple Mount by Jews and al-Haram al-Sharif by Muslims — is currently under the authority of the ultra-Orthodox Jewish Western Wall Heritage Foundation. According to custom, the plaza is divided by gender, with men praying on one side of a barrier and women on the other.

For Pence's visit to the wall, the foundation set up two platforms side by side straddling the barrier. As Pence prayed on the men’s side, however, it was difficult for some of the female journalists to see above the cameras and microphones held by their male colleagues.

“It was the same situation during President Trump’s visit to the Western Wall in May 2017,” said the foundation in a statement. “We reject any attempt to divert the discussion from the important and moving visit of the US Vice President and his wife at the Western Wall.”

Female journalists covering the event disagreed, however, coining the hashtag #pencefence on Twitter.

Tal Schneider, a prominent Israeli journalist, tweeted: “Separation at the Western Wall. The women stuck in isolation and cannot photograph, work. Women journalists are second-class citizens. The American women photographers are frantically yelling at the representatives of the White House. #PenceFence

... < tweet >

Another journalist, Ariane Ménage from i24news, tweeted: “When it's a bit hard to do your job / women journalists forced to stand behind the men at the separation fence at the western wall for Mike Pence's visit #PenceInIsrael #PenceFence.”

... < tweet >

The Western Wall has been the site of controversy in recent years as a growing number of Jewish groups, including reform and conservative streams from the United States, have demanded the creation of an egalitarian space to allow for mixed-gender prayer.

Under the management of the Western Wall Heritage Foundation, women are not permitted to read aloud from the Torah, or wear prayer shawls or sing there. Joint services with men and women together are also not allowed.

In 2016, Netanyahu’s government agreed on a plan dividing the area into three parts, allowing space for those Jewish groups. But last summer, following dissension from ultra-Orthodox members of his government, Netanyahu reneged on the deal, a move that left many American Jews feeling insulted and abandoned by Israel’s ruling coalition.

Following Pence’s visit and the segregation of the female reporters, Women of the Wall, one of the organizations instrumental in the battle for an egalitarian space, said it was time to challenge the “ultra-Orthodox monopoly of the Western Wall.”

“Today, senior women journalists from Israel and abroad were discriminated against,” the group said in a statement. “Today, they’ve experienced firsthand what happens to a woman who challenges the ultra-Orthodox monopoly of the Western Wall.”

Regarding the female journalist subjected to extreme security measures, Netanyahu’s office issued an apology, saying efforts were made to treat her with respect.

This is not the first time a female journalist attempting to cover a formal event with the Israeli prime minister has been asked to strip. An Al Jazeera journalist was also asked to remove her bra at an event in 2011.

Next, Pencey will want women to start wearing burquas or chadors.

[onekidanddone]

15 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

I guess mother hasn't taught Pencey to treat women well: "Female journalists covering Pence in Israel forced to stand behind male colleagues"

Next, Pencey will want women to start wearing burquas or chadors.

I'm not sure if this is Pencey boy's doing. Yes, I could clearly see him demanding this, but think this is Bibi's doing. Women and men have always been separated at the wall and there is a movement to end this practice. http://www.womenofthewall.org.il/mission/.  Go to most Orthodox service here in the States and Women are ether seated in a balcony or behind a wall called a Mechitza.

As for forcing women to remove their bras, no reason for that other than to humiliate women.

[GreyhoundFan]

2 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

I'm not sure if this is Pencey boy's doing. Yes, I could clearly see him demanding this, but think this is Bibi's doing. Women and men have always been separated at the wall and there is a movement to end this practice. http://www.womenofthewall.org.il/mission/.  Go to most Orthodox service here in the States and Women are ether seated in a balcony or behind a wall called a Mechitza.

As for forcing women to remove their bras, no reason for that other than to humiliate women.

I agree it wasn't 100% Pencey, but he could have at least made some sort of statement supporting women. I know it would have been lip service, but it would have at least had better optics.

[GreyhoundFan]

Pencey had to come back and break a tie so his buddy Brownback could be confirmed to screw over people on a wider stage: "Pence forced to break tie over nomination of Brownback for religious freedom post"

Spoiler

The Senate narrowly confirmed Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback (R) to a diplomatic post Wednesday, with Senate GOP leaders needing the help of Vice President Pence to break a deadlock over his controversial nomination.

Brownback was confirmed to be ambassador at large for international religious freedom on a 50-to-49 vote, with all Democrats opposed and two Republicans absent. Pence cast the tiebreaking vote in his role as president of the Senate.

The vote highlighted how polarizing a figure Brownback has become during his tenure as governor of Kansas. It also underscored the razor-thin margin of the Senate Republican majority and the implications for the GOP agenda and President Trump’s nominees.

Brownback had faced opposition from LGBT groups over a decision he made as Kansas governor to scuttle an executive order that barred discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity.

In a dramatic turn Wednesday afternoon, the Senate hit a 49-to-49 stalemate on a procedural vote to end debate on the nomination. Two Republican senators were absent: John McCain (Ariz.), who is in his home state battling brain cancer, and Bob Corker (Tenn.), who was at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. Pence quickly traveled to the Capitol to break the deadlock.

Wednesday marked the seventh and eighth times Pence has had to cast a tiebreaking vote since the start of the Trump presidency just over a year ago. By comparison, Vice President Joe Biden cast no tiebreaking votes in the Senate during the eight years of the Obama presidency. During George W. Bush’s presidency, Vice President Richard B. Cheney cast eight tiebreaking votes.

The GOP majority shrank to 51-to-49 when Democrats won an upset in the Alabama special election late last year, diminishing an already tight margin.

Brownback is a former senator. But that was not enough to win crossover support, even from some Democrats who had served with him.

“He’s a former senator. But, things happen,” said Sen. Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala.), with a chuckle.

In remarks on the Senate floor, Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) was critical of Brownback, saying his record on LGBT rights was troubling and expressing concern that he would defend only Christian minorities across the world.

“I do not take my vote against a former colleague’s nomination lightly, nor do I question Governor Brownback’s devotion to his own faith. Indeed, as person of faith myself, I admire it,” he said.

But, Menendez added, “I was deeply disturbed that when pressed during his confirmation hearing, Governor Brownback could not even bring himself to muster a resounding no, that it is never acceptable for a government to imprison or execute an individual based on their sexual orientation.”

Under Trump, the State Department folded its Office of Religion and Global Affairs into the Office of International Religious Freedom that Brownback will now lead. The restructuring gives him a larger profile.

Some advocates for religious freedom reacted with concern to the change, saying that the administration appeared not to care about the work that the Office of Religion and Global Affairs was doing. Others argued that the Office of International Religious Freedom will be significantly larger, and the change does not suggest that the Trump administration is uninterested in the subject.

Advocates for international religious freedom, particularly conservative Christian groups, have been asking the Trump administration to fill the vacant ambassadorship for months. When Pence spoke in May, for instance, to a conference organized by the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association about the persecution of Christians, one of the most frequent requests from the speakers in attendance was a new ambassador.

The most recent ambassador was Rabbi David Saperstein, the only non-Christian who has held the position. President Barack Obama appointed him in 2014.

 

[AnywhereButHere]

Brownback and religious freedom seem to be mutually exclusive concepts to me. 

Which, of course, makes him perfect for this administration. 

[GreyhoundFan]

I love Alexandra Petri: "Where was Mike Pence during the State of the Union?"

Spoiler

Where does Mike Pence go during these speeches? He is always somewhere, just barely making it back in time to rise and clap. But where, specifically, does he go?

Mike Pence stands on top of a wedding cake under a plastic trellis covered in fondant roses. Acres of white frosting spread as far as the eye can see. He is safe on top of this cake, safe from anyone whose hand might reach out and try to slice off a piece for an undeserving couple. Nothing can touch him here on this layered sponge. Somewhere a distant organ is playing Pachelbel’s Canon.

In the distance there is a vague rumbling. Perhaps the bride and groom are approaching on horseback. No. The sound is too loud. The cake begins to collapse. He falls all the way through the cake, and then he is in the House of Representatives and they are clapping all around him. He is standing behind President Trump again and clapping, and President Trump has just suggested the nuclear arsenal needs to be bigger. Sure.

Mike Pence is in a quiet mountain glade. A unicorn with Ronald Reagan’s voice stands beside a slow-moving stream whispering softly to him about deregulation. He smiles. A stream trickles slowly down, as prosperity is sure to do. There is a faint sound in the distance, and the unicorn turns its head. He follows the sound. The stream has become a waterfall. He is trapped in the waterfall. The sound, he realizes, is his own hands clapping. He is standing behind President Trump and clapping ferociously. President Trump has just said something about protecting nuclear families by ending “chain migration.” Everyone is applauding. Mike Pence applauds.

Mike Pence is in a Thomas Kinkade painting. It is a snowy winter scene, but he is tucked snug and warm into a brick house. He feels illuminated, like a fancy H on an old manuscript. He looks at his hand, and his hand is made of light. He presses his face to a glass windowpane. Across the street, the lamps in the houses flicker out. Then the streetlamps go out one by one. Darkness envelops him. He rises to his feet and claps, but none of the lights come back on. President Trump is there in front of him. President Trump has just said he is keeping Guantanamo Bay open. Mike Pence claps and claps.

All the women in the world have disappeared but one, and there need be no further concern about whom Mike Pence is eating supper with. He is at a long table, and a Renaissance Jesus is there as well. Renaissance Jesus will finally explain everything, about the martyrs, about everyone. It is going to be so good. Mike Pence is clapping. He is on his feet clapping, and he doesn’t know what for. Probably Paul Ryan does. It doesn’t matter. Clap, clap.

It is snowy and silent, and his beloved is coming home through the fog. Mike Pence has built a snowman and given it an American flag to hold, and when the snowman grasps the flag, it comes to life. They dance around together, faster and faster. Snowflakes whirl around them. A penguin is with them. It is dying. He is not sure how he knows this. Words penetrate the fog. America is exporting energy again, President Trump says. Finally. Mike Pence starts to clap. The snowman vanishes.

Mike Pence is in the reverse sunken place. He hears the phrase “MS-13” and starts to clap again.

Mike Pence is in a field surrounded by rabbits. Marlon Bundo is there. Don’t be afraid, Marlon says. You understand. You’ve always understood. Mike Pence claps and claps.

Mike Pence stands on his tiptoes. He is in a Norman Rockwell painting, and a pie has just come out of the oven and been placed on a windowsill to cool. Pat Boone is singing a nonsecular song in the background. No one is different. For Christmas this year (Christmas is back; Christmas has never left) perhaps he will get a Red Ryder air rifle, and they will watch a black-and-white Disney animated feature, and nobody will find fault with it.

Americans are dreamers, too. This phrase floats unproblematically down like a flower petal landing on the untroubled pond of his mind. The vision starts to fade, and Mike Pence claps and claps and claps. If he claps and wishes hard enough, maybe he can go back into this beautiful world that does not exist.

Americans are dreamers, too.

 

[GreyhoundFan]

More shoveling of horse manure from #2 (pun intended): "‘We’ve got a story to tell,’ Pence tells Republicans, urging them to tell it"

Spoiler

WHITE SULPHUR SPRINGS, W.Va. — Vice President Pence urged Republicans lawmakers, gathered here at a luxury resort for their annual policy retreat, to sell voters on a year of prosperity and policy triumphs as the midterm elections approach in November.

“We’ve got an incredible story to tell, and in the few minutes I have tonight, I want to encourage you to tell that story,” he said, opening 20 minutes of remarks delivered at the Greenbrier resort. “President Trump and I will be with you every step of the way.”

Pence’s remarks came less than 24 hours after Trump delivered a State of the Union address and not even 12 hours after a jarring accident threatened to upend the GOP’s yearly confab. The chartered Amtrak train lawmakers boarded Wednesday morning struck a garbage truck in Crozet, Va., killing one of the workers on board the truck and forcing those on board the train to disembark onto buses to complete their journey.

Pence told lawmakers to find comfort in their religious faith, after highlighting the GOP’s recent tax bill, which has prompted many companies to deliver bonuses and wage increases to their workers and has coincided with a steady rise in stock prices. He also highlighted Republican successes in confirming judicial nominees, while leaving unmentioned the party’s failure to deliver on promises to wholly repeal the Affordable Care Act and its current struggle to arrive at consensus on immigration reforms that would protect “dreamers” — young immigrants brought to the U.S. as children — from deportation.

Pence referred to Trump’s State of the Union address as a “blueprint for American success” and took shots at Democratic leaders — in particular, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), who referred to the tax bill’s benefits for working Americans as “crumbs.”

He made note of the four-figure bonuses several companies have announced for their employees and mocked Pelosi’s claims.

“Let me remind you all: I come from the Jos A. Bank wing of the West Wing,” Pence said, referring to the discount menswear retailer, whose wares lie at the opposite end of the sartorial spectrum from the tailored Brioni suits Trump favors. “You say $1,000 is crumbs, you live in a different world than I live in.”

Pence acknowledged “conventional wisdom” that has the Republican majority in the House, and potentially the Senate, in grave danger in November. But he told the Republicans that would not come to pass if they “tell the story” of the tax cuts.

“The conventional wisdom in 2016 said that Hillary Clinton was going to be president of the United States,” he said. “We made history in 2016, and we’ll make history again when we reelect majorities to the Congress of the United States of America.”

The vice president was introduced by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who noted that Pence had already cast as many tie-breaking votes in one year as the last Republican vice president, Richard B. Cheney, cast during eight years in office.

“I suspect we’ll be seeing even more of him this year,” McConnell said, a wry reference to a Republican majority that narrowed to a single vote after Sen. Doug Jones (D-Ala.) won a December special election. “Things are tight in the Senate.”

The speech came after a day of partisan attacks from Pence, who appeared at a truck dealership in White Sulphur Springs, about three miles from the exclusive resort hosting the retreat. There he highlighted the Trump administration’s economic achievements but also harangued Sen. Joe Manchin, the state’s only Democratic senator ,who is running for reelection this year, for voting against the recent GOP tax-cut legislation.

Pence recalled seeing Manchin at a Chamber of Commerce event in West Virginia last year while the tax bill was being crafted.

“I looked him in the eye and I told him, I said, ‘Joe, the people of the Mountain State are counting on you.’ And I said, ‘Let’s get this tax cut done together,’” Pence said. “But Joe voted no. Joe voted no to give working families more of your hard-earned money. Joe voted no on tax cuts for job creators.”

He also laced into Manchin in a series of tweets featuring a “#JoeVotedNo” hashtag to highlight the tax vote.

Manchin“is going to keep voting against West Virginia & I think Chuck Schumer & Nancy Pelosi are pretty happy w/ the way he votes,” he said in one tweet referring to the Senate and House Democratic leaders. “But WV needs to let him know that they EXPECT BETTER & they need to let Joe know that WEST VIRGINIA DESERVES BETTER.”

The attacks prompted a sharp response from Manchin, who approached Republicans during the fall about a possible bipartisan path toward a tax bill — one that would deliver more benefits to low- and middle-income individuals and less for the wealthy and for corporations.

He accused Pence of having “worked for almost a year in a divisive and partisan way to take healthcare away from almost 200,000 West Virginians, bankrupt our hospitals, and push tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and huge corporations.”

“The Vice President’s comments are exactly why Washington Sucks. I’m disappointed in his comments but will continue to work to make Washington work so West Virginia and our country work.”

I guess he thought Manchin would roll over and take his crap. He thought wrong.

[GreyhoundFan]

Interesting perspective piece: "The apocalyptic vision behind Mike Pence’s Holocaust comments"

Spoiler

On Jan. 27, Holocaust Remembrance Day, Vice President Pence tweeted, from his official account, a message honoring “the 6 million Jewish martyrs of the Holocaust who 3 years after walking beneath the shadow of death, rose up from the ashes to resurrect themselves to reclaim a Jewish future.”

Ostensibly a message of respect and reflection, the tweet provoked a firestorm. Many Jews saw it as an egregious show of disrespect, because it erased Jewish history by refiguring it as a Christian experience. The tweet employed the vocabulary (“martyrs”) and structure (“resurrection”) of Christianity to contain the experience of Jews, making it a message that reflected Pence’s own religious views rather than the historical experience of Jews.

Pence’s religious views matter here, because he holds an evangelical notion of Judaism, one that sees Jews as nothing more than instruments in an apocalyptic narrative that seeks the return of Christ. What at first appears to be a well-intentioned, if bungling, message turns out to have an insidious intent: to signal to his base that accommodating gestures made toward Jews are being made in the service of Christian aims.

Pence’s message has a strong historical precedent, one stretching back to the 12th and 13th centuries in major European cities in France and Germany. At that time, Jews were simultaneously protected and restricted by Christian rulers, who perceived Jews as objectionable nonbelievers but nevertheless God’s original “chosen” people and living relics of the church’s foundations in Judaism.

This understanding of Jews as inferior but worth protecting played out in the public venue of art. As historian Nina Rowe has shown, art produced under Frederick II in the 13th century declared the subordination of Jews to Christians, and it did so in a way that was similar to Pence’s tweet.

In the highly visible arena of Strasbourg Cathedral, viewers saw juxtaposed sculptures of Ecclesia and Synagoga — that is, female personifications of the church and the synagogue, or Christianity and Judaism. Both of these beautiful life-size figures, which still exist, have willowy proportions and elegant bodies. Yet while the church stands upright, confident and gazing with a clear-eyed purpose, the synagogue bears a broken spear and the tablets of the Ten Commandments while casting her blindfolded eyes toward the ground.

These sculptures were used to exemplify the necessity of Jews to the narrative of Christianity: Christianity emerged from Judaism, but Judaism is eternally a mere prologue and forever subordinate to Christianity. The medieval viewers of Strasbourg saw Christianity calling out to the Jews to recognize their subjugation and purpose, and hailing Christians to recognize their salvation. The goal was to include Jews within a Christian worldview while humiliating them and making them bear witness to Christian authority.

This mixed treatment of Jews — protected but derided — stemmed primarily from an End-Times-oriented worldview: at the time of the apocalypse, Christ would return to a Jerusalem held by Jews, Jews would convert to Christianity and Christ would then rule all people. But there were also pragmatic calculations. Jews served a necessary function as money-lenders in the market economy, making it impossible for Frederick II to simply dispose of them. Art thus became a powerful tool to remind the public that while Jews were necessary, they were nevertheless inferior and ought to be treated as such.

This same sentiment animated Pence’s Holocaust remembrance tweet. He turned his Twitter account into the modern southern facade of Strasbourg Cathedral. Pence, a self-proclaimed “evangelical Catholic,” was making a grand proclamation to Jews, evangelical Christians and especially his fellow Christian Zionists about the place of both religions in the world.

Many Christian Zionists believe we live in the end times, and so see their mission as preparing for them. Pence was playing to this sentiment by refiguring — again — the idea of the inferior but necessary Jew. Rather than expressing sympathy about one of the great tragedies of human history, he was exploiting its remembrance to advance his religious views.

Pence is entitled to his religious views, but it is important for us to understand precisely what he believes and how it influences both policy and rhetoric. While in office, Pence has forged ties with Christian Zionists, who believe in a utilitarian approach toward Jews in service of Christian aims. What are the policy implications of that partnership? Do Pence’s views represent those of the Trump administration? If so, what does it mean for an administration governing in an era of rising anti-Semitism?

These are the questions we should be asking instead of criticizing Pence for being a bumbler.

 

[Howl]

11 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Interesting perspective piece: "The apocalyptic vision behind Mike Pence’s Holocaust comments"

And this is why historians (and art historians!) are so incredibly important and I'm NOT talking about sleazy-Joe Barton-Christian revisionists. Thanks for posting this fascinating article. 

[AmazonGrace]

 

Investigators on the House Intelligence Committee have pored over thousands of emails from the Trump transition team but can't find Pence's name in any of them, even though he led the transition, said a Democrat familiar with the House's Russia probe. 

The Democrat was not authorized to detail private documents and spoke on condition of anonymity.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5352067/Pences-approach-troubles-White-House-He-wasnt-there.html#ixzz56QHYtKxQ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[onekidanddone]

On 2/2/2018 at 8:45 AM, Howl said:

And this is why historians (and art historians!) are so incredibly important and I'm NOT talking about sleazy-Joe Barton-Christian revisionists. Thanks for posting this fascinating article. 

One of my longest and dearest friends is an art historian. they sure do rock.

[GreyhoundFan]

"Pence seeks revenge against Manchin"

Spoiler

Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Joe Manchin thought they had a deal.

Manchin told Pence last August he could not vote for the latest plan to repeal Obamacare but was committed to working on a bipartisan tax cut bill, according to Manchin and administration sources familiar with the private conversation, which took place at a tax reform event in the mountains of West Virginia.

But Manchin went further, according to administration officials and Republicans briefed on the conversation, and promised Pence that he would support the tax bill and give it the bipartisan sheen that President Donald Trump was eagerly seeking.

Manchin disputes that telling, but four months later, he voted no — and Pence has not forgotten about it.

On Manchin’s home soil last week, Pence laid into him by repeatedly asserting “Joe voted no” on the president’s priorities, a sharp political attack motivated by Pence’s belief that Manchin had broken his promise, according to GOP lawmakers who speak with Pence regularly.

Pence’s words were quickly turned into an advertisement for Senate Republicans against the vulnerable Democratic incumbent. Manchin, meanwhile, is furious that Pence has used the misunderstanding as the pretext to tear down his bipartisan credentials, claiming he would never commit to vote for a bill that had not yet been written and that Pence and the White House never really tried to work with him.

Manchin believes Pence has become an attack dog against his bipartisan reputation because the GOP is “afraid it plays too well with the public.”

“He looked me in the eye, and I looked him in the eye. And I said, ‘I want to work with you.’ And that’s a two-way street,” Manchin said in an interview. “That is so disingenuous from our vice president.”

“He’s not upset. He can’t be upset,” Manchin said of Pence.

Yet congressional Republicans close to Pence said there was no turning back on this impasse. One GOP lawmaker said Pence believes Manchin should now face political consequences for his vote. Pence is expected back in the state sometime before April, according to administration officials.

“Pence is pissed. He should be pissed,” said another Republican lawmaker.

The conflict marks perhaps the rockiest period of Manchin’s reelection campaign and imperils his relationship with the White House. Trump is still seeking Manchin’s input on some issues, including immigration. But having the disciplined Pence attacking Manchin in his backyard is an ominous development for a Democratic senator whose state backed Trump by more than 40 points in 2016.

No other Democrat has strained as much as Manchin to appear close to Trump and distant from the liberal heart of the Democratic Caucus. He voted for Trump’s Supreme Court nominee and most of his Cabinet — even Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

“Joe gets plenty of breathing room,” said Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.).

Manchin is easily the Democrat most friendly to Trump and emphasizes his bipartisan record, noting he’s voted with the Trump administration more than 50 percent of the time. He opposed his party's votes that led to a government shutdown and stood out as the lone Democrat clapping frequently for Trump’s State of the Union address.

But Pence’s broadside against the conservative Democrat may give Republicans the opening they’ve been looking for — with the party likely to repeat “Joe voted no” on the president’s priorities all the way to Election Day.

“This line of attack is something you’re going to see over and over,” said a national Republican strategist working to defeat Manchin.

Yet Pence may have done some damage to the institution he presides over as president of the Senate. Senators in both parties said they were upset with the burgeoning feud. After all, Pence may soon need Manchin's vote given the GOP's paper-thin 51-49 majority.

“I don’t think it's wise to alienate people who are willing to work with you,” said Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine).

“That was done because Joe is up” for reelection, said Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.). “If Joe wasn’t up, they never would have done it.”

Yet Pence’s attack on Manchin articulated a long-running GOP sentiment: that Manchin talks a good game but is ultimately far more aligned with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) than with the president. In West Virginia, that could be a problem.

“The message is: ‘Joe voted no.’ And let him explain it,” said Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas). “Sen. Schumer expects him to vote the party line.”

“Manchin is kind of a moderate in name only,” said a senior White House official.

Manchin is doing everything he can to rebut that sentiment. On Tuesday, Manchin went to the floor to urge senators to pledge not to campaign against each other. Part of the pledge includes a vow not to raise money against sitting colleagues. Records show that Manchin's political action committee donated to Alison Lundergan Grimes, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s opponent in 2014, and that Manchin and Rep. Jacky Rosen (D-Nev.), who is running against Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.), were both on the same “Blue Senate 2018” joint fundraising committee.

“He raised money for himself,” said Jon Kott, a Manchin spokesman. “He never raised or donated to an opponent of his good friend, Sen. Heller.”

To hear Manchin tell it, Trump has continued seeking his counsel despite Pence and the administration’s low view of him as well as Trump’s own comments to The New York Times in December that Manchin “talks. But he doesn’t do anything.” Manchin and Sen. Doug Jones (D-Ala.) visited with Trump on immigration in January, and Trump did not attack Manchin in his own speech in West Virginia last week.

“Why are they calling me back to the White House?” Manchin asked rhetorically.

Democratic and Republican strategists agree it wouldn’t have made sense for Manchin to have voted for Obamacare repeal, given the large number of West Virginians who have benefited from the law. But the tax vote cuts differently, and his “no” could end up being the most consequential political story of Manchin's reelection campaign.

Manchin said he had held 21 meetings with the administration on tax reform and had offered at least four proposals skewing the bill away from aiding the wealthy. At a dinner with Pence, Trump and other senators in September, Trump reassured Manchin.

“I want you to know something, Joe. This is not going to be a tax cut for the rich and the wealthy like me. It’s going to be for the working person,” Trump said, according to Manchin.

Yet congressional Republicans kept tilting the bill away from Manchin.

In the winter, Trump himself admitted that repealing Obamacare’s individual mandate made it “tough” for the Democrat to support the bill, according to Manchin. Then the night before the first vote on the bill in December, Manchin asked Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) on the Senate floor whether the GOP wanted “to have the appearance of bipartisanship” by winning his vote.

Manchin says Portman responded: “We’ve already got 51.” A Republican familiar with the conversation disputed that, and said Portman was trying to relay to Manchin that his tax proposals would lose Republican votes and make tax reform impossible.

At that point, Manchin was left with a take-it-or-leave-it proposal. And Manchin said he had no choice but to disappoint the vice president.

“They can always count on me to work with them,” Manchin said. “But that works both ways.”

I often don't agree with Manchin, but this stinks.

[fraurosena]

54 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

"Pence seeks revenge against Manchin"

  Hide contents

Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Joe Manchin thought they had a deal.

Manchin told Pence last August he could not vote for the latest plan to repeal Obamacare but was committed to working on a bipartisan tax cut bill, according to Manchin and administration sources familiar with the private conversation, which took place at a tax reform event in the mountains of West Virginia.

But Manchin went further, according to administration officials and Republicans briefed on the conversation, and promised Pence that he would support the tax bill and give it the bipartisan sheen that President Donald Trump was eagerly seeking.

Manchin disputes that telling, but four months later, he voted no — and Pence has not forgotten about it.

On Manchin’s home soil last week, Pence laid into him by repeatedly asserting “Joe voted no” on the president’s priorities, a sharp political attack motivated by Pence’s belief that Manchin had broken his promise, according to GOP lawmakers who speak with Pence regularly.

Pence’s words were quickly turned into an advertisement for Senate Republicans against the vulnerable Democratic incumbent. Manchin, meanwhile, is furious that Pence has used the misunderstanding as the pretext to tear down his bipartisan credentials, claiming he would never commit to vote for a bill that had not yet been written and that Pence and the White House never really tried to work with him.

Manchin believes Pence has become an attack dog against his bipartisan reputation because the GOP is “afraid it plays too well with the public.”

“He looked me in the eye, and I looked him in the eye. And I said, ‘I want to work with you.’ And that’s a two-way street,” Manchin said in an interview. “That is so disingenuous from our vice president.”

“He’s not upset. He can’t be upset,” Manchin said of Pence.

Yet congressional Republicans close to Pence said there was no turning back on this impasse. One GOP lawmaker said Pence believes Manchin should now face political consequences for his vote. Pence is expected back in the state sometime before April, according to administration officials.

“Pence is pissed. He should be pissed,” said another Republican lawmaker.

The conflict marks perhaps the rockiest period of Manchin’s reelection campaign and imperils his relationship with the White House. Trump is still seeking Manchin’s input on some issues, including immigration. But having the disciplined Pence attacking Manchin in his backyard is an ominous development for a Democratic senator whose state backed Trump by more than 40 points in 2016.

No other Democrat has strained as much as Manchin to appear close to Trump and distant from the liberal heart of the Democratic Caucus. He voted for Trump’s Supreme Court nominee and most of his Cabinet — even Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

“Joe gets plenty of breathing room,” said Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.).

Manchin is easily the Democrat most friendly to Trump and emphasizes his bipartisan record, noting he’s voted with the Trump administration more than 50 percent of the time. He opposed his party's votes that led to a government shutdown and stood out as the lone Democrat clapping frequently for Trump’s State of the Union address.

But Pence’s broadside against the conservative Democrat may give Republicans the opening they’ve been looking for — with the party likely to repeat “Joe voted no” on the president’s priorities all the way to Election Day.

“This line of attack is something you’re going to see over and over,” said a national Republican strategist working to defeat Manchin.

Yet Pence may have done some damage to the institution he presides over as president of the Senate. Senators in both parties said they were upset with the burgeoning feud. After all, Pence may soon need Manchin's vote given the GOP's paper-thin 51-49 majority.

“I don’t think it's wise to alienate people who are willing to work with you,” said Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine).

“That was done because Joe is up” for reelection, said Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.). “If Joe wasn’t up, they never would have done it.”

Yet Pence’s attack on Manchin articulated a long-running GOP sentiment: that Manchin talks a good game but is ultimately far more aligned with Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) than with the president. In West Virginia, that could be a problem.

“The message is: ‘Joe voted no.’ And let him explain it,” said Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas). “Sen. Schumer expects him to vote the party line.”

“Manchin is kind of a moderate in name only,” said a senior White House official.

Manchin is doing everything he can to rebut that sentiment. On Tuesday, Manchin went to the floor to urge senators to pledge not to campaign against each other. Part of the pledge includes a vow not to raise money against sitting colleagues. Records show that Manchin's political action committee donated to Alison Lundergan Grimes, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s opponent in 2014, and that Manchin and Rep. Jacky Rosen (D-Nev.), who is running against Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.), were both on the same “Blue Senate 2018” joint fundraising committee.

“He raised money for himself,” said Jon Kott, a Manchin spokesman. “He never raised or donated to an opponent of his good friend, Sen. Heller.”

To hear Manchin tell it, Trump has continued seeking his counsel despite Pence and the administration’s low view of him as well as Trump’s own comments to The New York Times in December that Manchin “talks. But he doesn’t do anything.” Manchin and Sen. Doug Jones (D-Ala.) visited with Trump on immigration in January, and Trump did not attack Manchin in his own speech in West Virginia last week.

“Why are they calling me back to the White House?” Manchin asked rhetorically.

Democratic and Republican strategists agree it wouldn’t have made sense for Manchin to have voted for Obamacare repeal, given the large number of West Virginians who have benefited from the law. But the tax vote cuts differently, and his “no” could end up being the most consequential political story of Manchin's reelection campaign.

Manchin said he had held 21 meetings with the administration on tax reform and had offered at least four proposals skewing the bill away from aiding the wealthy. At a dinner with Pence, Trump and other senators in September, Trump reassured Manchin.

“I want you to know something, Joe. This is not going to be a tax cut for the rich and the wealthy like me. It’s going to be for the working person,” Trump said, according to Manchin.

Yet congressional Republicans kept tilting the bill away from Manchin.

In the winter, Trump himself admitted that repealing Obamacare’s individual mandate made it “tough” for the Democrat to support the bill, according to Manchin. Then the night before the first vote on the bill in December, Manchin asked Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) on the Senate floor whether the GOP wanted “to have the appearance of bipartisanship” by winning his vote.

Manchin says Portman responded: “We’ve already got 51.” A Republican familiar with the conversation disputed that, and said Portman was trying to relay to Manchin that his tax proposals would lose Republican votes and make tax reform impossible.

At that point, Manchin was left with a take-it-or-leave-it proposal. And Manchin said he had no choice but to disappoint the vice president.

“They can always count on me to work with them,” Manchin said. “But that works both ways.”

I often don't agree with Manchin, but this stinks.

It may stink, but ultimately it's a good thing, as this undermines their tenuous majority in the Senate. 

[GreyhoundFan]

7 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

It may stink, but ultimately it's a good thing, as this undermines their tenuous majority in the Senate. 

Well, if Pence stirs up enough crap in WV to get a Repug voted in Manchin's seat in November, it may help the Repugs.

[fraurosena]

3 minutes ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Well, if Pence stirs up enough crap in WV to get a Repug voted in Manchin's seat in November, it may help the Repugs.

Serious question: Could that really happen? Is his position in WV that shaky? I would have thought in light of the tendency in all these elections of late with states and districts being flipped from red to blue, it wouldn't be. 

[GreyhoundFan]

11 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

Serious question: Could that really happen? Is his position in WV that shaky? I would have thought in light of the tendency in all these elections of late with states and districts being flipped from red to blue, it wouldn't be. 

Yes, it is possible. Manchin is a former governor, and apparently reasonably popular. However, WV is a very rural state, ruby-red, and lots of rabid Dumpy supporters. Coal mines are a big deal there, which Dumpy has played up to. If Dumpy and his "team" decide to field a far-right candidate and throw lots of pep rallies, it could endanger Manchin.

[fraurosena]

Note how Pencey-Poo doesn't really answer when that daring reporter asks him straight to his face why he as VP never seems to be in the loop about the goings on with WH staff.

 

[fraurosena]

All these holier than thou types are just not. 

 

What a way to represent your country, Mikey. It really shows the world what your so-called ‘Christian spirit’ is all about.

Not to mention that you showed this disrespectful behavior at the Olympic Games! Someone should educate you on what they stand for.

[47of74]

Slate called the douche out on his behavior at the opening ceremony

Quote

Vowing to fund sham “conversion therapy” and then later claiming you meant something else is a true jerk move. But how does this relate to the 2018 Winter Olympics? Well, as head of the U.S. Olympic delegation, one of Pence’s main jobs is to meet and greet the American athletes prior to the Opening Ceremony. But in a January interview with USA Today, openly gay American figure skater Adam Rippon expressed his lack of interest in encountering Pence in Pyeongchang, citing Pence’s aforementioned policy statements, among other things.

Did Pence react by apologizing to Rippon? Did he take the high road and refuse to engage? He did not. Instead, he responded by calling the reporting on his homophobic policies “fake news,” and ripping USA Today for “trying to distort 18 yr old nonstory to sow seeds of division. We won’t let that happen! #FAKENEWS.” Ah, #FAKENEWS, the shouty hashtag refuge of the Trump-adjacent jerk. Pence’s outburst was driven by another USA Today story claiming that, in the immediate aftermath of Rippon’s criticisms, the vice president had staffers try to arrange a meeting between the two men—an opportunity Rippon declined. Now, however, Pence’s office claims it “did not reach out to set up a conversation with Mr. Rippon.” Way to gaslight Adam Rippon, you jerks!

Pence’s job in Pyeongchang isn’t limited to creating awkward moments and bashing the press. He is also there for diplomatic purposes—a tough task, given that he is the representative of a president who recently deemed Haiti and several African nations “shithole countries.” How has that been going? Well, Pence reportedly arrived late to a Friday dinner hosted by South Korean President Moon Jae-in, then left early and skipped the very special dessert. At Friday’s opening ceremony, Pence was one of the few people in the stadium who notably refused to stand and applaud when the combined North Korean and South Korean teams entered together. Photographs indicate that, during the opening ceremony, he either conspicuously ignored or entirely failed to recognize Kim Yo-jong, the sister of Kim Jong-un, despite the fact they were literally sitting an arm’s length apart.

Fornicating hypocrite.  He executed his pre-planned walk out stunt last year because people wouldn't stand at a football game and now disrespects others by not standing during opening ceremonies.  

[47of74]

And now the administration is saying that Pence didn't deliberately snub the North Koreans;

Quote

Vice President Mike Pence did not deliberately snub North Koreans at an Olympic reception, according to US officials who pushed back on South Korean reports that Pence deliberately came late to a VIP gathering Friday evening and then snubbed officials from Pyongyang.

Officials traveling with Pence to the 23rd Olympic Winter Games in South Korea were responding to reports that Pence had gone around a main table and greeted everyone except Kim Yong Nam, North Korea's nominal head of state. These officials said that while Pence did not greet Kim Yong Nam, he didn't deliberately skip over him. Instead, they said, Kim simply wasn't seated in the area where Pence was receiving well-wishers.

Riiiiiiiiggggghhhhtttttt.

For anyone who believes that I have the following for sale;

I can do cash or PayPal. 

And they're not even bothering to hide what Klannish Nationalists they all are anymore;

Quote

Asked about criticism that Pence stood and cheered only for Team USA and stayed seated when the North and South Koreans marched in under a unified flag, the official was unapologetic.

"The vice present cheered for the team he's rooting for. He cheered for the USA," the official said. "That's the team he's going to be cheering for all Olympics. He wants them all to win medals. He's biased for the Americans."

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by 47of74

[Mela99]

I had pregnancy rage for the first time watching the opening last time. DH was taken aback because I started screaming at the TV "NOBODY IS WAVING TO YOU PENCE GO HOME TO YOUR MOTHER."
I'm starting to notice politics wildly sets me off.

But this whole situation with MP and that figure skater - I believe it. Wholeheartedly