Maxwell engagement

[Ex 2x2]

I hope Steve didn't really say that about Rebecca!!! being a negative that they have to deal with due to ministry. :( If he did, he's a bigger jackass than I knew, and I already thought he was a pretty big one.

Do we know for sure that Rebecca!!! has a crush on the boys? Or is just speculation b/c she comments so much? Also wondering, isn't Steve curt with most of his replies to comments? I can't help but hope that it's not personally directed at Rebecca!! I mean really, she's not much more than a kid.

[darkplumaged]

I hope Steve didn't really say that about Rebecca!!! being a negative that they have to deal with due to ministry. :( If he did, he's a bigger jackass than I knew, and I already thought he was a pretty big one.

Do we know for sure that Rebecca!!! has a crush on the boys? Or is just speculation b/c she comments so much? Also wondering, isn't Steve curt with most of his replies to comments? I can't help but hope that it's not personally directed at Rebecca!! I mean really, she's not much more than a kid.

As far as I know, there's no hard evidence that she's into the Max boys, but she did sound flustered and disappointed in her comment on the engagement post. She admires the Maxwells in general wayyyy beyond what they deserve, and she frequently alludes to her future wedding and family in her own blog posts, so it wouldn't be at all surprising if she wished she could land a super-godly Maxwell boy for a husband. But she hasn't actually posted I LOVE JOHN!!!1111!! or anything like that.

I don't read anything into Steve's curtness toward her comments, either. He is a jerk and doesn't respond to anyone in a warm, friendly way. You'd think he'd be kinder to a young woman who is such a dedicated fan of his family, but this is Steve we're talking about...

[VVV]

I found the perfect dress for Elizabeth. Just add some sleeves. This is what it's all about, right? http://pinterest.com/pin/6262886952179461/

I'd hate to see the tux that goes with that.

[LurkerOverThePond]

I'd hate to see the tux that goes with that.

:lol:

[Muriel]

:lol:

I need some brain bleach now !

[Esther]

Frankly I think having a preteen make a public purity pledge vulgar, no less the hymen sales fundies call weddings. I find the transfer of breeding rights to the husband more vulgar than some art gown found on the internets.

THIS. Putting a depiction of a vagina on a wedding gown is "vulgar", but the way these people treat their wives and daughters as nothing more than walking hymens and then walking breeding machines isn't? This dress, tacky though it is, is several times more classy than literally ANY ASPECT of Steve's fucked up beliefs.

[nokidsmom]

:clap:

Agreed. I find the emphasis on purity with purity rings and the bride's purity being given over to the husband during fundie weddings to be hugely offensive.

[Creaky Mom]

Both are bad - how fundies go about it and the artist with a dress visual.

[Esther]

Both are bad - how fundies go about it and the artist with a dress visual.

Why is what the artist did here a bad thing? Nobody's forced to look at this thing or wear it. I think it's pretty cool.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't think that vulvas are gross or vulgar and the dress doesn't bother me in the least. I can understand why some people don't like it but I think it's art just as much as it's a dress and some art is upsetting and/or provocative.

I think it would be an appropriate dress for a fundie wedding considering the way they fetishize untouched vulvas and what a big deal they make out of purity and transfers of authority. It could be viewed as stripping away their pretty words about first kisses in front of a room full of spectators and getting to the heart of the matter - a woman's worth determined by the state of her genitals. Of course no one is going to wear that gown unless their wedding is doubling as performance art, but I think the person who made it had a message and it's kind of cool.

**I doubt the artist's original vision had anything to do with fundies, but art is awesome because we can all interpret it through our own lenses.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Been catching up on this thread. Poor Elizabeth--but then again she is the eldest and is fleeing raising all those little siblings to have her own husband, own home and who knows how many of her own children. That may be a big difference to her. And, while they all live very close by I think we saw Melanie Maxwell in real exercise clothes once. And we rarely see Christopher and Anna MARIE so who knows?

As to Maxwell income. We really don't know if either has inherited money or shares in family business or family farm or anything. Steve may have a military pension and they may have simply stayed out of debt since the beginning--it does happen I know a couple about as philosophically opposite of these families as you can get who are early 30s debt free, beautiful home they built themselves, family business that is doing just fine, retirement already funded. it does happen. Most people today have to earn so much to pay the mortgage or rent. With a mortgage they also have to pay upkeep, insurance and property taxes. No mortgage or rent reduces the income "need" considerably. And, doing it yourself when you really know how, does save thousands on home building. So, I'll give them a pass on income. And, if the "new' house the couple will be living in was bought at foreclosure he could have paid very little.

Now....poor Sarah....She can still have children so there's hope that she could add to some widowers quiver...... Sorry but I always think of "poor" India Wilkes in Gone With the Wind when I see "poor" Sarah.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I don't think that vulvas are gross or vulgar and the dress doesn't bother me in the least. I can understand why some people don't like it but I think it's art just as much as it's a dress and some art is upsetting and/or provocative.

Heck yeah. I know people who would wear it precisely as performance art, and it would be awesome.

Someone needs to wear that to the Michigan legislature maybe...

[gardenvarietycitizen]

As far as I know, there's no hard evidence that she's into the Max boys, but she did sound flustered and disappointed in her comment on the engagement post. She admires the Maxwells in general wayyyy beyond what they deserve, and she frequently alludes to her future wedding and family in her own blog posts, so it wouldn't be at all surprising if she wished she could land a super-godly Maxwell boy for a husband. But she hasn't actually posted I LOVE JOHN!!!1111!! or anything like that.

I don't read anything into Steve's curtness toward her comments, either. He is a jerk and doesn't respond to anyone in a warm, friendly way. You'd think he'd be kinder to a young woman who is such a dedicated fan of his family, but this is Steve we're talking about...

Agreed. Steve-O is just harsh and curt with everyone, with his little stabby >>>>> edits.

I think Rebecca!!!! probably admires the Maxwell family, and maybe wishes she were a part of it (or the image she has of it, really) and one way to do that would be to marry in. That might be the main thing she has a crush on more than any individual.

That said, I do feel for her if she's feeling rejected, but agree that she's MUCH better off not getting sucked into that life!

[WonderingInWA]

Heck yeah. I know people who would wear it precisely as performance art, and it would be awesome.

Someone needs to wear that to the Michigan legislature maybe...

Or to a Maxwell conference...

[kpmom]

No, there is no hard evidence that Rebecca!!!11!! is crushing the Max boys, but the fact that she answers almost every single post, and so enthusiastically, makes me believe she really admires this family. And if she has a crush on a couple of eligible, good looking young men her own age, there's nothing wrong with that.

One thing I've noticed, it seems if Sarah does a post on, say, Father's Day, and how wonderful her father is, we get a similar post from Rebecca a day or so later. It might be coincidence, but it's something I've noticed.

[Koala]

Someone needs to wear that to the Michigan legislature maybe...

:lol: Well played.

[Koala]

No, there is no hard evidence that Rebecca!!!11!! is crushing the Max boys, but the fact that she answers almost every single post, and so enthusiastically, makes me believe she really admires this family. And if she has a crush on a couple of eligible, good looking young men her own age, there's nothing wrong with that.

One thing I've noticed, it seems if Sarah does a post on, say, Father's Day, and how wonderful her father is, we get a similar post from Rebecca a day or so later. It might be coincidence, but it's something I've noticed.

I think Rebecca commented on the most recent picture of Joseph and Elizabeth. Now it gone :think:. I can't remember exactly what it said, but it was something like "thanks for the new picture of Joseph and Elizabeth. Beautiful couple, blah, blah, blah." It was sad, because it's so obvious that she's heartbroken. Bless her heart, she has no idea that she just dodged a bullet.

Steve is a bastard for replying to people that way he does. He has no manners at all. I think he fancies himself quite the fundie celebrity. :roll:

[Creaky Mom]

Why is what the artist did here a bad thing? Nobody's forced to look at this thing or wear it. I think it's pretty cool.

I appreciate no one is compelled to observe and that some like it. I place it in the same category as the Bayly brothers describing the taking of a virgin. Both degrade women. Maybe the dress is a parody. Unfortunately, the Bayly writings are not.

[Guest Anonymous]

I appreciate no one is compelled to observe and that some like it. I place it in the same category as the Bayly brothers describing the taking of a virgin. Both degrade women. Maybe the dress is a parody. Unfortunately, the Bayly writings are not.

Creaky Mom, I ask this sincerely, no snark at all. Why do you think that the depiction of a vulva is degrading to women?

[Witsec7]

Two words here:

Georgia O'Keefe :D

[Creaky Mom]

Creaky Mom, I ask this sincerely, no snark at all. Why do you think that the depiction of a vulva is degrading to women?

Hi Lissar, Someone posted a biology text drawing of the female genitalia a few days ago. It didn't communicate the same negativity toward women. Whereas female genitalia embroidered onto a wedding gown is saying the wrong things in the wrong context.

[Witsec7]

...

Hi Lissar, Someone posted a biology text drawing of the female genitalia a few days ago. It didn't communicate the same negativity toward women. Whereas female genitalia embroidered onto a wedding gown is saying the wrong things in the wrong context.

Visual art is interpreted by the viewer. I see art that says the vulva is beautiful, soft like poofy velvet and hidden by society, why not wear it on the outside?

You see as distasteful, I'm good with it. But if you ever come to my house don't freek out at the vulva painting that is on my fridge :lol: Oh or that little velvet vulva in the godbox in the living room. Oh and the blown glass vulva hanging off my godbox in the bedroom. :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

Hi Lissar, Someone posted a biology text drawing of the female genitalia a few days ago. It didn't communicate the same negativity toward women. Whereas female genitalia embroidered onto a wedding gown is saying the wrong things in the wrong context.

I think it's saying the right things in the right context, but hey! Interpretations are not going to be the same when it comes to art. The representation of a body part in fabric is not at all a problem for me, whereas the Bayly brothers' writing completely squicks me out.

I find it powerful and unashamed and a nice slap at all of the cultural implications that womens' genitals are dirty and should be kept secret. Not to mention the social constructs of virginity and white wedding dresses.

Thanks for answering. Obviously we disagree but I appreciate you sharing where you're coming from.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Two words here:

Georgia O'Keefe :D

Heh. Seriously. I was thinking it was quite "O'Keefian" myself :D

As for degrading or not, I am imagining such a dress being voluntarily worn by a woman who wants to make a statement. Women should get to decide what their genitalia means, that it's not something shameful or dirty but rather a beautifully functional collection of body parts that are owned and controlled by women. I suspect it was made by a woman with such thoughts in mind.

You can find crochet and knitting patterns to make little vulva/vagina/clitoris "petals" kinda like this, people have knitted them and arranged them into flowers.

Edit to add: Or should that be "O'Queefian"? :lol:

[Witsec7]

Heh. Seriously. I was thinking it was quite "O'Keefian" myself :D

As for degrading or not, I am imagining such a dress being voluntarily worn by a woman who wants to make a statement. Women should get to decide what their genitalia means, that it's not something shameful or dirty but rather a beautifully functional collection of body parts that are owned and controlled by women. I suspect it was made by a woman with such thoughts in mind.

You can find crochet and knitting patterns to make little vulva/vagina/clitoris "petals" kinda like this, people have knitted them and arranged them into flowers.

Edit to add: Or should that be "O'Queefian"? :lol:

Which is exactly why I performed in my local Vagina Monologues at the age of 51.

(O Queefian I'm going to use that phrase the next time the topic comes up.)