Best country for women? Canada!

[2xx1xy1JD]

Is it worse for indigenous women than indigenous men? Are their specifically woman-focused policies?

Some of what you're saying sounds like reservations here in the US, although I don't think our government made such an effort to remove children from their families. I could be wrong about that. Education about native cultures is not strong here.

In the past, the Indian Act discriminated against women who married non-Native men or had children out of wedlock. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Act

Property rights for reserves are different than property rights off reserves. It's therefore harder for a woman on a reserve to stay in her home safely if she is abused. See http://www.nwac.ca/research/matrimonial-real-property and http://nawl.ca/en/pub-archives/open-let ... n-reserves

Women are particularly affected by the fact that child protection services are funded at lower level on reserves than off reserves: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/poli ... complaints

The isolation of many of the reserves also makes it harder to deal with domestic violence. Imagine a situation where a women is living in a community so remote that there is literally no way in or out. Social services are lacking. Within the community, many of the people are extended family. If this woman is abused, how is she supposed to get help? To where can she go? She has no right to her own home. She cannot avoid contact with the abuser if she remains on the reserve. In some cases, members of the ruling band council or other officials may be related to an abuser.

Another issue is that women are the ones who have the babies, so they are more affected by issues relating to pregnancy, childbirth and child rearing. Access to medical care is often an issue - sometimes, doctors fly up, and the rest of the time health care is left to nurse practioners and traditional lay midwives. Native women are more likely to have children earlier, and to have more children overall. When my husband worked in Kashechewan during medical school, he delivered the 7th child of a woman who was in her early 20s. In some of my child protection cases, it wasn't unusual to deal with mothers who had 10 or 11 children.

Prostitution is another area where women are disproportionately affected. Since the Indian Act creates financial incentives to stay on the reserves, women who leave to go to the cities often find themselves going with inadequate education, not much money and very little family/community support. They are far more likely to end up engaging in street prostitution, with all of the dangers associated with that. There have been some serious allegations that racism and sexism within the police played a role in the slow response to stop serial killer Robert Pickton, who killed prostitutes in Vancouver's East End.

[Eclipse]

Excellent truth telling about aboriginal women in Canada (aboriginals = First Nations, Inuit, and Metis). Here's more info:

* For First Nations full-status women, it used to be that they lost their status when they married anyone who was non-status. 1xx, do you know if this is still the case? If so, this means they lose their right to live on the reserve, their right to receive their share of certain land claim and other payments, the right to go to university or other post-secondary education free of charge, the right to not pay provincial or federal tax, etc. It is a significant gender bias. I hope this has been changed, but fear it has not.

Native women stopped losing their status if they married anyone who was non-status in 1985. Since 1985 their children have also been given status.. One of the good thing Harper did was have a bill passed that restored First Nation status to the women who lost their status upon marriage to a non-status man. It also gave First Nation status to the children of these couples born 1985. The bill received Royal Assent in December 2010 and restored First Nation status to around 45,000 people.

[Minerva]

What was Alberta's sterilisation law?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Ste ... of_Alberta and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory ... _in_Canada give a pretty good overview.

[freejoytoo]

Thanks for the links:)

[CanadianHippie]

Canada, best country for white, married, middle or upper class women. All the other women get fucked.

[Childless]

I would kill for a year off. I got only 10 weeks, 8 weeks of that was paid (but only at 50% of my salary and that's only because I had a c-section, otherwise it would have only been 6 weeks). I was lucky though. My husband is a stay at home father, so I didn't have to leave my 10 week old infant in daycare, but it was still hard to leave him. I would have given anything to have had a full paid year off to be a mommy. Sometimes, I really hate this country.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Canada, best country for white, married, middle or upper class women. All the other women get fucked.

I wouldn't go that far. Urban minority women still have opportunities, esp. compared to those in other countries.

For Native women, however, the outcomes on the 6 criteria mentioned in the article are pretty dismal.

[CanadianHippie]

I wouldn't go that far. Urban minority women still have opportunities, esp. compared to those in other countries.

For Native women, however, the outcomes on the 6 criteria mentioned in the article are pretty dismal.

The single mother who keeps having her services cut to "save tax payers" is probably very grateful for the "opportunity" to work two jobs and still not be able to pay all her bills at once.

[browngrl]

Canada, best country for white, married, middle or upper class women. All the other women get fucked.

I do not agree with this statement.

I am a woman. I am brown. I came to Canada as an immigrant. Growing up - my family was dirt poor (I am not exaggerating). I was single for most of my life. Yet I do not feel that I have been "fucked" by the Canadian system. Rather, I feel lucky and proud to be Canadian. Could things be better? Of course. Was it hard to get where I am now? Of course. Did I have to deal with discrimination along the way - of course. However I have been granted incredible opportunities in Canada - opportunities that would be denied to me in many places in this world.

edited to add: I hope that I do not come across as sanctimonious or judgemental - that is not my intention at all. I am just happy to be Canadian.

[Deleted03]

sorry I was away. I think everyone else has talked about most issues, one very interesting comment on the residential schools system that I heard at a conference was the lasting consequences on individuals. If as a kid you have been taken from your parents and family for most of the time, abused, raped (happened quite often) and got bad care from "care" givers, how are you going to be able to raise your kids? What models do you have?

In addition to this long lasting de-socialization, the many first nations women disappearing every year but being brushed off as you know, prostitutes (because really what else could they be?) is more than disturbing.

And in general the situation is dire. Homelessness issues with many Inuits who come from the Great North and end up in big metropolis addicted.

Some people say that due to high levels of abuse particularly in Inuits territories, kids get placed by social services outside of the reservation (i.e. in the South) in a kind of modern twist on residential school. So rather than providing better housing conditions (many families share houses. There is a great need for more housing opportunities there), they just take the kids away when it gets too bad.

I am merely pointing out that there is absolutely no reason to "rest on our laurel wreath" like French say (be happy or content with what we have) because a historical minority is still suffering a great deal and nothing or next to nothing is done for them. Rather they're hidden under statistics about the general population.

[LadyBlue]

I think this article http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... using.html (news site) gives a pretty good summary of some of the issues facing natives, particularly relating to housing, but you can see how difficult it must be for them to get food, clothing and other basics for the children; something which unfortunately affects the women more than the men. It's really just a vicious cycle they're stuck in.

[alba]

As a white woman with a middle-class background who has lived in both Ontario and Scotland, I have to say I'm very surprised that Canada made the top of the list. For one thing, post-secondary tuition is paid for in Scotland, at least for an undergrad. There are fees elsewhere in the UK, but student loans don't need to be paid back until one makes a certain salary, whereas OSAP, the Ontario student loan program, must be paid back starting six months after graduation.

Additionally, public health care in Canada doesn't cover as much in terms of costs as Britain does, though it differs province-by-province. Doctors' and hospital visits are free, but in Ontario things like dentist cleanings cost something like $200, eye tests are often not covered after the age of 18, and prescriptions are not covered. Pretty much everything is paid for in Scotland. All I've had to pay for since I moved here is a £12 tooth cleaning (the actual check-up is free) and glasses (again, the eye test itself is free, and the NHS has assistance for people who can't afford glasses). In England prescriptions cost roughly $12-13. I've never had much cause to buy prescriptions in Canada, but asthma inhalers, for instance, cost about $20 IIRC. I'm not sure if birth control is covered by provincial healthcare, but I suspect that things like the pill would not be covered as they're prescriptions.

Furthermore, Canada has a very patchwork daycare system, even within provinces (I think Québec's OK, but Ontario's not very good at all, or wasn't five years ago). Nursery school, which is a half-day, is free from the age of 3 (with full-time school starting at 4 or 5), which is two years after maternity leave runs out but also 1-2 years earlier than publicly-funded education in Canada, and full-time school starts a year or two earlier, too. Women are more likely to stay at home with children until they start full-time education, and being able to go back to work four-and-a-half years after giving birth will have less of an effect on the career than going back six-and-a-half years later.

Obviously this is hardly an exhaustive assessment, but this is why, in my experience, Britain is generally a better country for women than Canada, though I hasten to add the UK still has a long way to go. I haven't even addressed the lives of aboriginal women, which other more knowledgeable posters have disscussed already.

[Deleted03]

As a white woman with a middle-class background who has lived in both Ontario and Scotland, I have to say I'm very surprised that Canada made the top of the list. For one thing, post-secondary tuition is paid for in Scotland, at least for an undergrad. There are fees elsewhere in the UK, but student loans don't need to be paid back until one makes a certain salary, whereas OSAP, the Ontario student loan program, must be paid back starting six months after graduation.

Additionally, public health care in Canada doesn't cover as much in terms of costs as Britain does, though it differs province-by-province. Doctors' and hospital visits are free, but in Ontario things like dentist cleanings cost something like $200, eye tests are often not covered after the age of 18, and prescriptions are not covered. Pretty much everything is paid for in Scotland. All I've had to pay for since I moved here is a £12 tooth cleaning (the actual check-up is free) and glasses (again, the eye test itself is free, and the NHS has assistance for people who can't afford glasses). In England prescriptions cost roughly $12-13. I've never had much cause to buy prescriptions in Canada, but asthma inhalers, for instance, cost about $20 IIRC. I'm not sure if birth control is covered by provincial healthcare, but I suspect that things like the pill would not be covered as they're prescriptions.

Furthermore, Canada has a very patchwork daycare system, even within provinces (I think Québec's OK, but Ontario's not very good at all, or wasn't five years ago). Nursery school, which is a half-day, is free from the age of 3 (with full-time school starting at 4 or 5), which is two years after maternity leave runs out but also 1-2 years earlier than publicly-funded education in Canada, and full-time school starts a year or two earlier, too. Women are more likely to stay at home with children until they start full-time education, and being able to go back to work four-and-a-half years after giving birth will have less of an effect on the career than going back six-and-a-half years later.

Obviously this is hardly an exhaustive assessment, but this is why, in my experience, Britain is generally a better country for women than Canada, though I hasten to add the UK still has a long way to go. I haven't even addressed the lives of aboriginal women, which other more knowledgeable posters have disscussed already.

Thank you! Yes in Québec there are subsidised day care places. The issue is to be able to get those ahahah. But usually those daycares are awesome!

In Québec we are fighting to keep the tuition low. it's not easy.

[Guest Anonymous]

As a white woman with a middle-class background who has lived in both Ontario and Scotland, I have to say I'm very surprised that Canada made the top of the list. For one thing, post-secondary tuition is paid for in Scotland, at least for an undergrad. There are fees elsewhere in the UK, but student loans don't need to be paid back until one makes a certain salary, whereas OSAP, the Ontario student loan program, must be paid back starting six months after graduation.

This is probably cancelled out by the rest of the UK. Tertiary education in Scotland is subsidized by England. And we (in England) now have to pay crazy money for our higher education.

[freejoytoo]

In England things are pretty expensive, you have to repay student loans (which are being tripled!) though not until after you earn a certain amount of money and you do have to pay for prescriptions and eye tests. There aren't many NHS dentists in my area. At least contraception and general healthcare are free!

[OkToBeTakei]

This is probably cancelled out by the rest of the UK. Tertiary education in Scotland is subsidized by England. And we (in England) now have to pay crazy money for our higher education.

Can you explain that a bit more?

[Guest Anonymous]

Can you explain that a bit more?

While I was at university, English students paid approximately £ 3 500 pa for their undergraduate studies (certain courses, such as nursing, had exemptions/bursaries) while Scottish students were paid for (i.e. free) at undergrad. Now, undergraduate courses for English students will be between £ 6 000 and £ 9 000 for English students and still free for Scottish students. As I understand it, factors such as population density and wages paid mean that English tax payers (particularly those in the south east) subsidize those in the other nations/areas of the UK.

[alba]

This is probably cancelled out by the rest of the UK. Tertiary education in Scotland is subsidized by England. And we (in England) now have to pay crazy money for our higher education.

The Scottish tuition is paid for by SAAS, which is a Scottish government organisation, though. I was under the impression that the Scottish government's money predominantly came from Scottish taxpayers.

Anyway, I know it sucks in England; my point is just that I'm not convinced it's any better in Canada.

[OkToBeTakei]

http://money.uk.msn.com/blog/pounds-and-sense-blogpost.aspx?post=308b2b65-11f9-4e7f-95a5-32315c9e8f8a

Not sure if any one particular demographic subsidises the other directly. But the discrepancy in access to higher education is extremely unfair. The above link to some extent explains the financial ramifications of devolution. When the guy that 'designed' it is admitting it is crap per se. Time for a re-think.

[alba]

Not sure if any one particular demographic subsidises the other directly. But the discrepancy in access to higher education is extremely unfair. The above link to some extent explains the financial ramifications of devolution. When the guy that 'designed' it is admitting it is crap per se. Time for a re-think.

I don't think the problems with the Barnett formula can really be attributed to devolution when devolution occurred nearly twenty years *after* its implementation. The formula needs to be done away with and Westminster needs to overhaul its funding, but it would need to do that even without devolution.

[OkToBeTakei]

I don't think the problems with the Barnett formula can really be attributed to devolution when devolution occurred nearly twenty years *after* its implementation. The formula needs to be done away with and Westminster needs to overhaul its funding, but it would need to do that even without devolution.

Yes to an extent...but the fact it IS still being used when devolution and the economic landscape has changed so much does lead to the 'England is subsidising Scotland' argument and not without some truth. The fact that everybody would like 'free' education and 'free' prescriptions only serves to fuel an age old animosity, one not for today or this thread I suspect. :)

Personally I believe the reason Scotland does not cut the 'Top' list? The Weather. Even a die hard fundy would be stretched to have a 'Happy countenance' on a June day with howling winds and hail..and this is allegedly Summer.

[freejoytoo]

The weather's not much better in England! Okay, it's quite sunny and warm today but this week we've had rain and gale-force winds!

[Minerva]

As a white woman with a middle-class background who has lived in both Ontario and Scotland, I have to say I'm very surprised that Canada made the top of the list. For one thing, post-secondary tuition is paid for in Scotland, at least for an undergrad. There are fees elsewhere in the UK, but student loans don't need to be paid back until one makes a certain salary, whereas OSAP, the Ontario student loan program, must be paid back starting six months after graduation.

Additionally, public health care in Canada doesn't cover as much in terms of costs as Britain does, though it differs province-by-province. Doctors' and hospital visits are free, but in Ontario things like dentist cleanings cost something like $200, eye tests are often not covered after the age of 18, and prescriptions are not covered. Pretty much everything is paid for in Scotland. All I've had to pay for since I moved here is a £12 tooth cleaning (the actual check-up is free) and glasses (again, the eye test itself is free, and the NHS has assistance for people who can't afford glasses). In England prescriptions cost roughly $12-13. I've never had much cause to buy prescriptions in Canada, but asthma inhalers, for instance, cost about $20 IIRC. I'm not sure if birth control is covered by provincial healthcare, but I suspect that things like the pill would not be covered as they're prescriptions.

Furthermore, Canada has a very patchwork daycare system, even within provinces (I think Québec's OK, but Ontario's not very good at all, or wasn't five years ago). Nursery school, which is a half-day, is free from the age of 3 (with full-time school starting at 4 or 5), which is two years after maternity leave runs out but also 1-2 years earlier than publicly-funded education in Canada, and full-time school starts a year or two earlier, too. Women are more likely to stay at home with children until they start full-time education, and being able to go back to work four-and-a-half years after giving birth will have less of an effect on the career than going back six-and-a-half years later.

Obviously this is hardly an exhaustive assessment, but this is why, in my experience, Britain is generally a better country for women than Canada, though I hasten to add the UK still has a long way to go. I haven't even addressed the lives of aboriginal women, which other more knowledgeable posters have disscussed already.

Birth control is not covered by OHIP. You need a drug plan of some kind, and there will almost always be a co-pay.

[Minerva]

Thank you! Yes in Québec there are subsidised day care places. The issue is to be able to get those ahahah. But usually those daycares are awesome!

In Québec we are fighting to keep the tuition low. it's not easy.

You guys are amazing. Keep up the fight, I wish Ontarians were that brave.

[alba]

Birth control is not covered by OHIP. You need a drug plan of some kind, and there will almost always be a co-pay.

Ah, right. That's what I suspected but I wasn't sure.