Knowing It All, and Telling Others How It Should Be Done

[bea]

Here is something that is annoying me today - well, most days, but I was thinking about it today when I was reading the blog of a newlywed who had all kinds of advice for how to have a long-lasting marriage. Like so many of these women, she loves to give advice on marriage. Constantly. On how to be married, on how to stay married, on how to manage your marriage. Oh, and how to run a home, and plan your meals so that no one gets bored with the food, and how to stay on top of the laundry.

She's been married less than six months. She has - from the perspective of someone in the same relationship for 21 years - no fucking clue what she's talking about, because she has no experience with it.

And this is something that I keep seeing in these fundie blogs. Unmarried women talking about marriage, people without kids talking about proper parenting, newlyweds giving sage advice on how to make your marriage last. First time moms pontificating on the proper way to manage your house with half a dozen children.

Is this a THING? As in, is this something that fundie blogs engage in more than other blogs?

It seems to be, and I think it's the mindset. The belief that because you did X and X works for you, X must work for everyone in every circumstance all the time and the fact that X works for you will never, ever change regardless of how your circumstances and your life might change. And that having a thought on something totally qualifies you to go speak about that idea or topic as an expert, because you thought about it and prayed about it, so God wants you to share you wisdom with the whole Internets.

It reminds me of when Gretchen from YLCF had her first kid and extolled this set of books that insisted that the baby eat, play, and sleep and so on and so forth. Despite the fact that she was warned in the comments by many people (me included) that in addition to the fact that newborns don't have a diurnal rhythm yet, she might be seriously compromising her milk supply by not letting the baby feed "on demand." And she nattered on about infant potty training and how simple it was. She knew it all, she was a total expert.

Sure enough, a few months later, she's not producing enough milk, she's stressed out, she can't think why this is happening. Baby #2 comes along and the whole infant potty training thing goes out the window, as does (I imagine) the books that told her how to do things "right." Baby #3 arrives and she's got three under four and a farmer for a husband and not enough money and not enough time or sleep and her blog sounds like she's just barely holding it together (and if you read here, honey, get your sister-in-law or someone to take over childcare for a weekend and go somewhere and just SLEEP) and the last thing she's doing is giving advice to anyone on child raising because she has three kids and she knows, now, that every family is different and every child is different and there's no manual.

Same thing with Anna T. She knew all about how birth control shouldn't be used and large families were the ideal and homeschooling was an absolute must and that she was going to stay home with her ten or twelve children and raise them up to be the perfect Jewish-with-a-weird-VF-vibe family. Two kids later and she's talking about how birth control might be okay in some circumstances and maybe there's some people who shouldn't have large families and women who aren't cut out for back-to-back pregnancies. Because she's got some experience now, she's in the thick of it, and it's HARD. Way harder than the people giving the advice make it out to be.

Anyone else have particularly egregious examples? I know there's a fair number of totally single girls writing flowery odes to courship, and often the same girls wax poetic about babies and parenting. While I'm thinking about it - who's out there pontificating on topics they don't and can't know anything about?

[MaroonMandy]

The belief that because you did X and X works for you, X must work for everyone in every circumstance all the time and the fact that X works for you will never, ever change regardless of how your circumstances and your life might change. And that having a thought on something totally qualifies you to go speak about that idea or topic as an expert, because you thought about it and prayed about it, so God wants you to share you wisdom with the whole Internets.

I think this is in part due to their complete lack of critical thinking skills and being so sheltered. I honestly don't think they can wrap their heads around the fact that not everyone's relationship is a square peg that will fit snugly in a square hole.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Ah yes. I always think it doesn't get any better than child-bride Lauren from wearinghispurity.

I just realized more than ever how important it is to really support your spouse, work as a team, have fun along the way, keep things light-hearted, get behind each other, and approach things as a team. It made us realize how much we could do if we really roughed things together... I think sometimes we women put an air of stress out there with harried looks, complaining, nagging, etc. but when we replace that with love, laughter, encouragement, thankfulness for helpful husbands, etc. You can make anything fun.... Even traveling with a 50 lb. suitcase , 6 carry on bags, 2 bulky car-seats, a 3 year old, and a 1 year old strapped in an Ergo!

Part of growing old together is getting wrinkly, gray, and possibly a little flabby, but we can still make ourselves as pretty as possible for our husbands. Whether you are first married or big pregnant with your fifth child, you can still seek to make yourself pretty for your husband. Stay freshly showered, good smelling, hair brushed and styled, rub on some lotion on those dry places, and dress in a way that pleases your husband. Exercise to stay in shape and eat healthy to stay energized and feeling good. Do everything you can to make yourself pleasing to your husband.

Oh, and the bolded part here is awesome:

Life can seem so big, weighty, and serious when you're courting. One tiny disagreement or small insensitive comment can send you to tears. Because you feel so vulnerable and inexperienced as you put yourself out there to have a relationship with someone, every little prick and disappointment can seem huge! The longer you're together and married you'll look back and laugh a little at those "huge" things. Marriage, pregnancies, births, parenting, finances, moves, church life, etc. puts everything into perspective. It's so good to learn to laugh at yourselves sometimes and make light of the small things. When something insensitive is said, try to remember the other person's heart for you and believe that instead getting thrown for a loop.

[bea]

Wait - she's never actually HAD the experience of traveling with a 50 lb. suitcase , 6 carry on bags, 2 bulky car-seats, a 3 year old, and a 1 year old strapped in an Ergo, but knows that with the right attitude, you can make it fun....for your husband?!

It's good to know that a newlywed has such sage advice for someone pregnant with her fifth child.

I have to go read that blog now - i don't think I've ever gone over there.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Oh, she did do it. Once. So now she knows the secret to stress-free traveling consists largely of: smiling lovingly at your hubby and telling him what a great provider he is, even though you really want to open an overhead bin right over his seat during turbulence because he forgot to pack something you reminded him about four times.

There is lots of good reading on that blog, as long as you have plenty of anti-nausea meds on hand.

[VintageJen1984]

Oh, she did do it. Once. So now she knows the secret to stress-free traveling consists largely of: smiling lovingly at your hubby and telling him what a great provider he is, even though you really want to open an overhead bin right over his seat during turbulence because he forgot to pack something you reminded him about four times.

There is lots of good reading on that blog, as long as you have plenty of anti-nausea meds on hand.

Or you could just, you know...pack less.

I mean the car seats are necessary. But I could pack for a mom, a dad, a 3 year old, and a one year old in three carry on sized bags. One of which would be underseat sized. (Given what she's willing to sacrifice I could put mom's clothes in an underseat carry on too, if she'll re-wear and only pack dresses). There is just no need for all of that.

[Bellatrix]

Back on topic (not that I mind the off road parking discussions, to be fair): isn't that an implicit rule of religions? "This is the way it is done, I'm conveying to you the way it is done so you can do it right. (add here an extra bonus rule about eternal reward versus eternal punishment Tantalus style to give extra individual drama dimension & scare people into accepting whatever you're saying rather than questioning it) Now be a nice little religious colonist: get married, have children whom you'll teach this to and in this modern day and age, use your fundie mommy blog to treat all citizens of the world as though they were your silly, savage, uninstructed toddlers."

After all, as far as I know, the Catholic priests have always been the authority to turn to when it comes to marital matters, right? Or am I just considering History through my European coloured goggles? :geek:

[apple1]

I have been married for 35 years, to my one and only husband.

Honestly, I really don't have a whole lot of marriage advice, outside of loving each other.

ETA - but I doubt that one line would be enough to blog about. :roll:

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's definitely annoying. To be fair, though, I know plenty of non-fundies who do the same thing, esp. with parenting advice.

[mirele]

It's definitely annoying. To be fair, though, I know plenty of non-fundies who do the same thing, esp. with parenting advice.

Yeah, the way some mommies lord it over other mommies, I'm glad I never had kids. I probably would have been locked up for pounding on some know-it-all pontificator.

[formergothardite]

Rebecca, the unusual maiden was giving out marriage advice here on FJ right after she got home from her honeymoon, wasn't she?

[wallfly]

I told a fundy friend that my husband was expanding his business and hiring 2 well qualified women for the positions. She told me that her husband would never hire a woman. About a month later, he hired a woman to run a small home business for them. Their eldest was only 10 and I think they were counting on her to help out more but she had too much to do with five younger siblings.

[contrary]

While it's interesting (annoying) that they feel so capable of spouting advice on things they've no experience with, it's also curious that their advice is always all the same.

look pretty for your husband. submit. train your kids up to be quiet in church. blah blah blah.

[CynicMom]

Secret to marital happiness: It helps to be DAMN LUCKY

[Kaylee]

While it's interesting (annoying) that they feel so capable of spouting advice on things they've no experience with, it's also curious that their advice is always all the same.

look pretty for your husband. submit. train your kids up to be quiet in church. blah blah blah.

Because if you deviate from that even a little bit, you get shut out of the conversation and sometimes the community.

I'm a member of another board that's mostly fundie women and it seems pretty normal until something like that happens. I had a post deleted in a discussion about being a "Proverbs 31" woman for suggesting that maybe part of submission including adapting to what your husband wanted and needed in a wife and doing what worked for your family instead of trying to force yourself into a certain role or pattern based on other people's advice.

One thing I loved about my old fundie church was that our women's Bible study teacher was not like this. She would talk about roles, submission, etc some when it was part of a lesson but would always add to use your common sense and not put up with abuse. Then again, she had been married over 30 years, raised several children, and seen in her own family that even following all the rules sometimes didn't work out (2 of her children were divorced - one because she left an abusive husband & one because his wife got on drugs and had several affairs among other issues - and I think she saw how trying to stay in a bad marriage hurt both of them).

[ChunkyBarbie]

Secret to marital happiness: It helps to be DAMN LUCKY

QFT! In addition to being lucky enough to find the right person, choose that person wisely. I'm amazed at the half assed way some people go into marriage. A wedding ring is a symbol of your love and fidelity, it isn't a magic ring that makes everything better.

[bellamonster04]

"It seems to be, and I think it's the mindset. The belief that because you did X and X works for you, X must work for everyone in every circumstance all the time and the fact that X works for you will never, ever change regardless of how your circumstances and your life might change."

I think this is true for most people under the age of 25, bloggers, and the large percentage of people who are full of themselves which = full of crap. Actually it's my theory that you'd have a harder time finding someone who is NOT like this than one who is.

[emmiedahl]

The baby traveling stuff is funny. Our biggest trip involved taking six children to California for a family wedding and Disneyland (!!!). I had children and stepchildren from infant to teenager and the infant *is not the problem*.

We have a ton of fun on trips and it is not because I am particularly moisturized or give my husband loving looks in the baggage claim. It's because we take pictures of ourselves posing with landmarks in colorful ways, do the chicken dance in airport terminals with total strangers while waiting for an overdue flight, and are generally a fun-loving group of heathens with little respect for social norms.

[nokidsmom]

QFT! In addition to being lucky enough to find the right person, choose that person wisely. I'm amazed at the half assed way some people go into marriage. A wedding ring is a symbol of your love and fidelity, it isn't a magic ring that makes everything better.

I remember a saying that was on a plague in a friend's home about choosing your spouse wisely; it will be 90% of your happiness or 90% of your misery.

[ElphabaGalinda]

"It seems to be, and I think it's the mindset. The belief that because you did X and X works for you, X must work for everyone in every circumstance all the time and the fact that X works for you will never, ever change regardless of how your circumstances and your life might change."

I think this is true for most people under the age of 25, bloggers, and the large percentage of people who are full of themselves which = full of crap. Actually it's my theory that you'd have a harder time finding someone who is NOT like this than one who is.

Hey, I'm under 25 and I'm not full of myself! Neither are the many lovely regular FJ posters under 25. But I'm sure you didn't mean me :)

[Maggie Mae]

Ah yes. I always think it doesn't get any better than child-bride Lauren from wearinghispurity.

[snip]

Why would they carry six carry-ons? Check another bag! You get one per person. I would probably open my mouth and get kicked out of the airport if I was stuck behind these people. They are probably the ones that are so entitled that they just stand on the moving walkway, blocking traffic so that people who use the airport for non vacation travel and have tight layovers get extra stressed about missing flights. Also I don't know what an ergo is, but why would you bring three baby seat/carriers and two babies? There should be a class in schools about airport travel. I mean, why do some people make their lives so much harder?

[VintageJen1984]

Why would they carry six carry-ons? Check another bag! You get one per person. I would probably open my mouth and get kicked out of the airport if I was stuck behind these people. They are probably the ones that are so entitled that they just stand on the moving walkway, blocking traffic so that people who use the airport for non vacation travel and have tight layovers get extra stressed about missing flights. Also I don't know what an ergo is, but why would you bring three baby seat/carriers and two babies? There should be a class in schools about airport travel. I mean, why do some people make their lives so much harder?

An ergo is to wear a baby. Since she'd have to check the car seats it was probably easier with all those carry ons to wear the baby. I'm gonna fault them for the outrageous amount of luggage but not the ergo. I'm not a mother, but if I were and traveling with a baby there's no way I'd try it without a baby wearing device.

[Maggie Mae]

An ergo is to wear a baby. Since she'd have to check the car seats it was probably easier with all those carry ons to wear the baby. I'm gonna fault them for the outrageous amount of luggage but not the ergo. I'm not a mother, but if I were and traveling with a baby there's no way I'd try it without a baby wearing device.

Oh that makes sense. I was thinking it was like a baby chair or something. (I'm not around children very often.)

[Juliakitty]

I confess to doing a lot of spouting about parenting before I had kids, and I'm not fundie. I'm ashamed of myself now.

[kb2]

http://www.hernoblecharacter.com/

She had this awful post about how you're not allowed to divorce ever (you can leave your abusive spouse and put him in jail for your own safety, but not divorce), before she was married. She had lots of marriage advice before she was married.

However, in the comments of that post, she seemed willing to admit that she was wrong (after a round of arguing). And in a recent post, she writes:

Have you ever looked back over something you've written a long time ago (or even, maybe, not that long ago) - whether that was a school assignment or some personal journaling or an old email or something else - and thought, "I was so much younger when I wrote that! I would never say that now. How immature and embarrassing."? I definitely have. And it has made me hesitant to journal much, even though the very thing I'd be afraid of would be an indicator of growth.[snip]...I know it can get on my nerves when I feel like people younger than me who haven't experienced something I have... try to teach me something like they know all about it.

So I think right now she's in the transition stage. I hope she keeps blogging. After all of her posts about how to have a good marriage, she didn't get much childless marriage time (she delivered ten months after the wedding). One thing she has going for her is that she didn't say much about the "right" way to raise children before she started having them, so she isn't going to have to take back child-raising advice now that she has one. (Although she could get overconfident while she still has only one.)