Oh wow... how did we miss this one! Awesome "Titanic" pics!

[Librul]

Master Turley's vows also referred to the woman as the ...Weaker Vessel.

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[Witsec7]

I shall be faithfully thine whether we be abounding or abased

I just looked this up on Websters online, it means to be lowered. Obviously a fundy term when I read what the commenters wrote.

Do these fucking people talk like this at the grocery stores?

[GenerationCedarchip]

Mrs. Turley is the former Melissa Keen, one of the young women featured in the Botkinettes' "Return of the Daughters" DVD:

As soon as I saw this post, I realized who else looked familiar in those photos on the blog. I think Melissa (Keen) Turley's sister Lindsay married Brantley Disharoon (of the mysteriously dismissed and much-discussed court case).

[SisiL78]

Holy subjugation Batman? Those were their vows? Seriously? Has no one in the fundy world noticed that G-d created living things in order of intelligence? First the little rodents and creep crawlys, then bigger animals, then mammals, then man, and THEN woman. If anything they've got this Genesis thing all wrong! :-) I don't believe anyone is superior, but if I was using Genesis alone for my information then I'd totally think women were the best :-)

Okay, and the photo captions.... its not THEIR HOUSE its her HUSBAND'S HOUSE? Heck, my FH's name is on the title to our house and he paid the entire downpayment (we have to wait to be legally married to put my name on the title otherwise I have to pay thousands in additional tax... its ludicrous) Anyways he refers to the house as "Its YOUR house" despite the fact that he's taken on most of the financial burden. I'm so angry. These people can't even call the house a woman lives in with her husband their house and acknowledge her role in it. I still think the woman is a great seamstress and has nice taste in clothing (much better than other fundies), but I also wonder what sort of doormat she must be to have herself referred to in a way that denotes she's nothing more than a pet.

BTW, try and leave even a slightly critical comment on the return of the daughter's trailer. They all get moderated out. Apparently its rude to leave a comment that says this is not a healthy lifestyle for young women. I keep getting little notes back from the moderators telling me I'm a rude jerk.

[Hane]

I particularly liked her wedding vows posted on 4/27/08 (the notations are for biblical quotes - but I'm not copying those). I've taken out their names and I've bolded my "favorite" parts. Words fail me.

Bride’s Vows

I, (bride), do covenant before God and man, to thee, (groom),o be thy faithful and loyal wife, loving thee and serving thee as a helpmeet suitable for thee [13], for the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man [14]. I vow to honour and obey thee, placing myself in submission and subjection unto thee in all things, with respect and reverence, as befits the honour due thee as my earthly lord and head [15], [16]. I shall be thy discreet, chaste keeper at home, obedient unto thee, that the Word of God be not blasphemed [17]. I vow to diligently, industriously, and faithfully care for the affairs of thine household so that thy heart may always safely trust in me [18]. I vow to thee patience and kindness, gentleness [19] and tenderness, and all my love and affection, delighting only in thee, my beloved husband, mindful that it is thou who hast authority over my body, and not I [20]. Should the Lord so choose to bless us [21], it will be my delight to be thy fruitful vine [22], raising our children with thee, as thy helpmeet, in the nurture and admonition of the LORD [23]. I shall be faithfully thine whether we be abounding or abased [24], laughing or mourning, in good health or poor, and nothing but death shall part me from thee.

[snip]

I don't know if I'm more sad or angry at how devalued these young women. Truly they are not valued as people.

I'm going now because my head hurts and my heart is sad.

These vows make me want to hurl; they force a woman to stand up and announce that she's becoming a second-class citizen for the rest of her life. The old "love, honor, and obey" used by some churches was a feminist manifesto compared with this.

They'd also be right at home in female-submission romance porn.

[acheronbeach]

The Vision Forum men never seem to have any loving feelings toward their wives at all. They're always sturdy, industrious, skilled, pious, etcetera, but there's never much warmth.

Josh Harris (of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" fame) is married. He espouses some pretty patriarchal ideas. His wife is a SAHM. He is the preacher-breadwinner. But when he writes about his wife, it's a world apart from the Bradricks, Turleys et al. I don't like Harris's ideas, but he writes about his wife like he adores and respects her.

That's what I find the most worrying about the Vision Forum patriarchs. Their descriptions of their wives and daughters are like they're clinically describing a dishwasher, or a tea-kettle, or some other useful object.

[SisiL78]

The Vision Forum men never seem to have any loving feelings toward their wives at all. They're always sturdy, industrious, skilled, pious, etcetera, but there's never much warmth.

Josh Harris (of "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" fame) is married. He espouses some pretty patriarchal ideas. His wife is a SAHM. He is the preacher-breadwinner. But when he writes about his wife, it's a world apart from the Bradricks, Turleys et al. I don't like Harris's ideas, but he writes about his wife like he adores and respects her.

That's what I find the most worrying about the Vision Forum patriarchs. Their descriptions of their wives and daughters are like they're clinically describing a dishwasher, or a tea-kettle, or some other useful object.

I wonder if they can't help it. They grow up watching their mothers treated like some icon. Its like the Sabbath song Eshes Hayel, a woman above rubies, she's described for the things that she does. On one hand it can be sweet when a woman's husband sings it to her. But, it always struck me as "Here's my wife, she does all this stuff for me just like Rosie the Robot on the Jetsons". Okay, maybe I'm flashing back to my attempts at religious dating (BLECH!) but it was creepy and full of expectations that no human woman could meet without losing her mind. I believe that the fundies even have a woman's magazine called Above Rubies.

Basically the women are expected to do so much more than the men, but they get far less respect than men get. A woman has to handle everything, yet she has no decision making skill and no autonomy. To even refer to the "husband's house" instead of something like "their home" or "marital home" says it all. The women are automotons whose job it is to fulfill her husband's decisions and expectations.

I'd be interested to see if any study of suicide or break-downs has ever been done focusing purely on women in fundy lifestyles. After you birth tons of babies, suffer healthwise, and sacrifice every minute to fulfilling the needs of others without ever having any options I would think that your mental health would start to suffer greatly. Add to that the fact that these fundies are not exactly big on therapy or modern medicine (some not all of course) and its a recipe for disaster.

[acheronbeach]

I believe that the fundies even have a woman's magazine called Above Rubies.

The Campbells publish that magazine. They have bizarre priorities, too.

Edited - mixed up a Pearl with a Campbell.

[Librul]

acheronbeach, you hit the nail...it is indeed like hearing a description of a valued, useful possession. I would miss my Allclad stockpot, but fortunately, I can get another.

[Kitchen Princess]

Mrs. Turley is the former Melissa Keen, one of the young women featured in the Botkinettes' "Return of the Daughters" DVD:

What a dick. You can't paddle a canoe from the middle seat with someone sitting beside you, unless that person also has a paddle! How illustrative.

[freejoytoo]

Do they not realise there's something wrong with celebrating the Titanic?

I don't know why I'm asking.

[Peas n carrots]

I just realized that Dougie looks like Dr. Nick Rivera from the Simposon's today.

[acheronbeach]

If you want to see what I mean about Josh Harris, here's a post he did on his wife. He apologizes for his "husbandly pride" when he talks about how Shannon is a talented singer and a great mother and wife:

http://www.joshharris.com/2008/01/thank ... _visio.php

Contrast that with Petey:

"He did not desire a woman who would merely stay home and raise his children, although he certainly wanted her to do that; rather, he desired a sturdy woman, much like the Pilgrim women, who would encourage and propel him in his strategic focus and vision -- a woman who would discipline herself and her mind not to pursue personal comfort and ease as her defining decision criteria. "

[thoughtful]

Inspired by Creaky Steel's pointing out the basic physics of rowing:

[marmalade]

Well, after that blowout wedding 4 years ago, I hope she has some money to spare for a box of root touchup. She was an older bride, but she's still greying prematurely.

Liked the sleeves on her dress. Very Princess Anne, only in lace.

Doug Phillips is a tool.

eta: became a Purity Baller and didn't even notice! I was going to throw a huge re-enactment of Petey Bradrick! attempting to put out a fire! Damitol. :doh:

[NurseNell]

What a dick. You can't paddle a canoe from the middle seat with someone sitting beside you, unless that person also has a paddle! How illustrative.

Seeing this photo reminds me of An American Tragedy by Theodore Dreiser, in which a young man takes his pregnant girlfriend out for a rowboat ride and drowns her. It's based on a real case that happened in upstate New York.

[B5SnowDog]

Inspired by Creaky Steel's pointing out the basic physics of rowing:

Is she opening an invisible box?

[thoughtful]

Seeing this photo reminds me of An American Tragedy by Theodore Dreiser, in which a young man takes his pregnant girlfriend out for a rowboat ride and drowns her. It's based on a real case that happened in upstate New York.

[alba]

Inspired by Creaky Steel's pointing out the basic physics of rowing:

I like!

I don't think the problem is actually that there's someone sitting next to him, it's that it's bloody awkward to solo a canoe in that position. It should be tilted so the gunwales on the paddler's side are close to the surface of the water and the paddler should be kneeling. If you've got two people, the paddler kneels behind the thwart and the passenger sits in front (which is, incidentally, more intimate because they can face each other).

[lilith]

Her hands are in a weird position. Could she have been holding a paddle that was photoshopped out for some weird reason?

[alba]

Her hands are in a weird position. Could she have been holding a paddle that was photoshopped out for some weird reason?

I don't think so. They're too close together to paddle effectively, and her hands are too relaxed to be gripping a paddle.

[kunoichi66]

I don't think so. They're too close together to paddle effectively, and her hands are too relaxed to be gripping a paddle.

Maybe she's asking him why they are going around in circles....

[Sweetpea1]

Maybe she's asking him why they are going around in circles....

[Seven Severn]

I don't think so. They're too close together to paddle effectively, and her hands are too relaxed to be gripping a paddle.

Maybe she's pretending to hold a paddle. Because she can't really paddle because that would mean having a say in where they're going and that just can't happen. So, she's pretending to "act like a man" because it's humorous and such. I'm out of coffee. Does this make sense?

[kunoichi66]

Maybe she's asking him why they are going around in circles....

She should have thought of that before they got married.

Indeed.