Esther Shrader (Anna Duggar's sister) living in a pop up

[Jessica]

Yes, the radiation was attaching to her electrolytes, making her too dehydrated to go into labor.

[Witsec7]

Yes, the radiation was attaching to her electrolytes, making her too dehydrated to go into labor.

She may have a screw loose, but we did get a dose of radiation 500 times normal (still within 'normal' exposure limits) from Fukishima.

[SisiL78]

Someone PLEASE post where you're seeing this! I read through the facebook of Esther's husband but it wasn't giving me much info. I found some stuff on Google but it was hard to follow.

I really feel for the kids. So many unfit parents out there with kids, yet I can think of several wonderful couples struggling to concieve or carry a child to term. It makes me truly wonder if there is a G-d when crazy breeders get all these blessings and the amazing and sane people who would raise exemplary citizens are denied even the chance of children. Even seeing the struggles that they've faced wiht adoption makes me wonder if there is a G-d out there and if there is whether He hates children so much.

[BravaAmica]

I really feel for the kids. So many unfit parents out there with kids, yet I can think of several wonderful couples struggling to concieve or carry a child to term. It makes me truly wonder if there is a G-d when crazy breeders get all these blessings and the amazing and sane people who would raise exemplary citizens are denied even the chance of children. Even seeing the struggles that they've faced wiht adoption makes me wonder if there is a G-d out there and if there is whether He hates children so much.

I totally agree. Why are all the stupid, crazy or/and drug addicted people so damn fertile while the compassionate, kind, gainfully employed and cogent people can't have a baby at all?!! I'm thinking of my cousin [prostitute, drug addict, has had six kids and counting- all taken away by the state] keep having babies she doesn't even want and my sister [kind, truly wants a child, in a stable relationship, has a good job, great support system] can't get pregnant even after five rounds of fertility treatment.

[holothuroidea]

I totally agree. Why are all the stupid, crazy or/and drug addicted people so damn fertile while the compassionate, kind, gainfully employed and cogent people can't have a baby at all?!! I'm thinking of my cousin [prostitute, drug addict, has had six kids and counting- all taken away by the state] keep having babies she doesn't even want and my sister [kind, truly wants a child, in a stable relationship, has a good job, great support system] can't get pregnant even after five rounds of fertility treatment.

Nature is completely indifferent to human morality.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Sadly Esther's life is more typical of younger, barely educated Quiverfull families than Josh and Anna--who live rent-free and earn money for being on the show. Seven kids--that's a lot to feed even at subsistence levels. With a big garden, raising your own everything--yes. Otherwise someone needs a very decent job or a trust fund. I feel for them. It can't be easy seeing what the rest of the family has.

[SisiL78]

Wasn't there some Fundy royalty discussed here where the parents are millionaires (or nearly so) but the daughter and her many children live in squalid conditions on family property without the luxury of running water whilst Mom and Dad and some of the other married siblings live in mansions just a hop and a skip away?

[Wolfie]

Wasn't there some Fundy royalty discussed here where the parents are millionaires (or nearly so) but the daughter and her many children live in squalid conditions on family property without the luxury of running water whilst Mom and Dad and some of the other married siblings live in mansions just a hop and a skip away?

Isn't that the Pearls? Rebekkah and her husband live in poverty away from the family, but some of the family lives in the family compound in nice houses and others in hovels.

[Witsec7]

Isn't that the Pearls? Rebekkah and her husband live in poverty away from the family, but some of the family lives in the family compound in nice houses and others in hovels.

Rebekkah and Gabe live on the reserve, no running water, no heat. I think she plunked out #7. Hard to tell since 7xSun is gone now so is Exodus. They're probably living on chicken scratch and cat food.

[Koala]

There's another family like that too, but I'm damned if I can remember their names. The mother wrote for some fundie Christian magazine and had some interupted adoptions (as I remember it).

[apple1]

Isn't that the Pearls? Rebekkah and her husband live in poverty away from the family, but some of the family lives in the family compound in nice houses and others in hovels.

There are probably multiple examples, but-

I don't call the Pearls any kind of "royalty" (although I get what you are saying). Especially after seeing them on AC360. Does.not.compute.

I want to think that the situation people are thinking of is with one of Nancy Campbell's adult daughters.

[Koala]

There are probably multiple examples, but-

I don't call the Pearls any kind of "royalty" (although I get what you are saying). Especially after seeing them on AC360. Does.not.compute.

I want to think that the situation people are thinking of is with one of Nancy Campbell's adult daughters.

That's the one! Nancy Campbell

[lilith]

I totally agree. Why are all the stupid, crazy or/and drug addicted people so damn fertile while the compassionate, kind, gainfully employed and cogent people can't have a baby at all?!! I'm thinking of my cousin [prostitute, drug addict, has had six kids and counting- all taken away by the state] keep having babies she doesn't even want and my sister [kind, truly wants a child, in a stable relationship, has a good job, great support system] can't get pregnant even after five rounds of fertility treatment.

Why doesn't your sister adopt or foster one or more of your cousins kids?

Pregnancy is not and never will be some kind of reward for moral behavior, nor a punishment for immoral. The idea that it is or should be is one of my pet annoyances.

If society got to choose who were fit parents I could well not exist. Both my parents are wonderful and supportive, but my father is a long time pot addict and they were living as hippies way off the grid when I was born. I'm sure the moral majority wouldn't have approved of my birth.

I have friends who are parents who have struggled with drugs. Their parenting has been affected to varying degrees, depending more upon their basic skills and character, not upon the drug addiction.

I struggled with alcohol when I first left my husband. Kids were always cared for and we are now all in a great place. According to some they should have been placed with a more "worthy" carer on the basis I was abusing a substance. If that had happened they would be floundering in the system and I would probably still be drinking to excess every night.

Infertility is sad, but it is not effected by someone else's fertility, and every mum and her situation is different.

[holothuroidea]

*snip*

Pregnancy is not and never will be some kind of reward for moral behavior, nor a punishment for immoral. The idea that it is or should be is one of my pet annoyances.

If society got to choose who were fit parents I could well not exist. Both my parents are wonderful and supportive, but my father is a long time pot addict and they were living as hippies way off the grid when I was born. I'm sure the moral majority wouldn't have approved of my birth.

I have friends who are parents who have struggled with drugs. Their parenting has been affected to varying degrees, depending more upon their basic skills and character, not upon the drug addiction.

I struggled with alcohol when I first left my husband. Kids were always cared for and we are now all in a great place. According to some they should have been placed with a more "worthy" carer on the basis I was abusing a substance. If that had happened they would be floundering in the system and I would probably still be drinking to excess every night.

Infertility is sad, but it is not effected by someone else's fertility, and every mum and her situation is different.

QFT, and I'm so glad you have found a good place. :)

[lilith]

QFT, and I'm so glad you have found a good place. :)

Thank you. I know it was a bit of a thread jack, but it's one of those things that just gets to me.

[meda]

Why doesn't your sister adopt or foster one or more of your cousins kids?

Pregnancy is not and never will be some kind of reward for moral behavior, nor a punishment for immoral. The idea that it is or should be is one of my pet annoyances.

If society got to choose who were fit parents I could well not exist. Both my parents are wonderful and supportive, but my father is a long time pot addict and they were living as hippies way off the grid when I was born. I'm sure the moral majority wouldn't have approved of my birth.

I have friends who are parents who have struggled with drugs. Their parenting has been affected to varying degrees, depending more upon their basic skills and character, not upon the drug addiction.

I struggled with alcohol when I first left my husband. Kids were always cared for and we are now all in a great place. According to some they should have been placed with a more "worthy" carer on the basis I was abusing a substance. If that had happened they would be floundering in the system and I would probably still be drinking to excess every night.

Infertility is sad, but it is not effected by someone else's fertility, and every mum and her situation is different.

Why is it assumed that someone who cannot have a child of their own should be jumping with joy at the thought of fostering or adopting the children of someone who cannot parent because of addiction or other issues? Why is it the job of the infertile to clean up the messes other people have made of their reproductive lives? You know what a pet peeve of mine is? People who have successfully given birth smugly telling people who can't give birth that infertility is "sad". How the fuck would you know?

[BravaAmica]

Why doesn't your sister adopt or foster one or more of your cousins kids?

Why should my sister be so delighted with adopting a drug addicted, maybe HIV+ baby from a pregnancy that had no prenatal care and an unknown father? [We don't know my cousin's HIV status, sometimes she says she's +, other times, says she's negative] I have volunteered to be her surrogate if she wants me to be, though.

My cousin doesn't keep in touch and we usually find out that she's had another baby after the fact. Like after it's been adopted. She lost custody of her first five kids through abuse, neglect and allowing her johns to sexually molest the kids if the price was right. The two older ones are over 18. My aunt [cousin's mom, obviously] adopted the other three.

The last baby she had [her sixth], the social worker was in the delivery room and took the baby away immediately. My cousin didn't even see it. She signed the adoption papers before she left the hospital and was back using and prostituting a few days later.

I know people get clean after being drug addicted. But what's she done is so far beyond the pale, so evil that there is no hope for her. She ruined five gorgeous, funny smart kids for drug money. I hope she rots.

[lilith]

Why is it assumed that someone who cannot have a child of their own should be jumping with joy at the thought of fostering or adopting the children of someone who cannot parent because of addiction or other issues? Why is it the job of the infertile to clean up the messes other people have made of their reproductive lives? You know what a pet peeve of mine is? People who have successfully given birth smugly telling people who can't give birth that infertility is "sad". How the fuck would you know?

I would certainly not assume that someone fostering or adopting was "cleaning up the mess others have made of their reproductive lives" , more that they to love and care for a child, much like most women who get pregnant.

Yes, infertility is sad. There are a whole heap of other words that could describe it as well, but sad is one of them.

It is also sad and wrong that some infertile couples think that just because they are "worthy" of a child and can't conceive one that any woman who has children in a less than ideal situation is some sort of cosmic slap in the face to them.

Pregnancy is a biological function. That's all. Some people's bodies don't do it as easily as others. The crack whore down the street with 6 kids isn't the one stopping an infertile couple from conceiving.

[lilith]

Why should my sister be so delighted with adopting a drug addicted, maybe HIV+ baby from a pregnancy that had no prenatal care and an unknown father? [We don't know my cousin's HIV status, sometimes she says she's +, other times, says she's negative] I have volunteered to be her surrogate if she wants me to be, though.

My cousin doesn't keep in touch and we usually find out that she's had another baby after the fact. Like after it's been adopted. She lost custody of her first five kids through abuse, neglect and allowing her johns to sexually molest the kids if the price was right. The two older ones are over 18. My aunt [cousin's mom, obviously] adopted the other three.

The last baby she had [her sixth], the social worker was in the delivery room and took the baby away immediately. My cousin didn't even see it. She signed the adoption papers before she left the hospital and was back using and prostituting a few days later.

I know people get clean after being drug addicted. But what's she done is so far beyond the pale, so evil that there is no hope for her. She ruined five gorgeous, funny smart kids for drug money. I hope she rots.

It's an absolutely tragic story, and if your cousin really did allow men to sexually abuse her children she should be charged and arrested.

It still has no relevance to your sisters infertility. And children with unknown fathers and HIV need parents too.

I'm not saying your sister should do anything, just pointing out that she wants a baby and there are babies who are close blood relatives who desperately need a home.

[holothuroidea]

It's not okay to refer to children as "the messes made of other people's reproductive lives." These are PEOPLE we are talking about.

[SisiL78]

Yes, it was the Campbells I was thinking of. I didn't realize that the Pearls had a similar situation. My mom is poor and she'd sacrifice everything if she knew that I was living in a hovel without proper facilities. She'd probably sell her own organs to provide for her grandchildren if it came to that. The morality of some of these fundies is amazingly out of touch.

I didn't mean to start an argument regarding the ability or lack thereof to have children. I do know it is not tied to morality or means. Its just something in my head regarding the role of G-d and child bearing that the fundamentalist community seems to have. I often think that if G-d was out there playing a role in baby making then these fundies and the prostitutes and the other unfit people would certainly not be getting any blessings. Ester Schrader's children are among the many examples that we have that if a higher power exists that they are not really guiding fertility. I do often believe in G-d, but then there are other times when I doubt the existence of any power greater than us.... and one of those times is when I see wonderful people struggle to conceive or adopt a single child while abusive people have them by the dozen....

[meda]

There is the assumption, and you seem to be making it, that the infertile couple is under some sort of moral obligation to adopt or foster. That assumption is not made of couples who have a biological child. Only the infertile are expected to get over being sad and adopt all those poor needy children. Who are in many cases poor and needy because of crappy choices made by their biological parents. When the drug addicted prostitute has 6 children she can't or won't care for, it's not her fertility that's a slap in the face, it's the rest of her life choices.

And yes, when someone has children that they won't care for responsibly, it causes a mess of problems.

[MarciaBrady]

Why doesn't your sister adopt or foster one or more of your cousins kids?

And one of my biggest pet peeves is people acting like it's wrong for a person with fertility problems to want a biological child or to want to experience pregnancy. Maybe she wants to have a biological child and wants to continue pursuing fertility treatments. There's nothing wrong with having that desire and pursuing it.

[holothuroidea]

There is the assumption, and you seem to be making it, that the infertile couple is under some sort of moral obligation to adopt or foster. That assumption is not made of couples who have a biological child. Only the infertile are expected to get over being sad and adopt all those poor needy children. Who are in many cases poor and needy because of crappy choices made by their biological parents. When the drug addicted prostitute has 6 children she can't or won't care for, it's not her fertility that's a slap in the face, it's the rest of her life choices.

Who made that assumption and where?

And yes, when someone has children that they won't care for responsibly, it causes a mess of problems.

Children are not problems. Their lives are not problems. They might have some problems, but are they really the kind of problems you could justify preventing?

[lilith]

Ok rather than quoting I am going to just write one post. Quotes are hard on iPads.

First, why is a prostitute automatically an unfit mother? Would you extend that to all sex workers? Porn stars? Nude models?

I never ever said that infertile couples have an obligation to adopt. That's a personal choice, but it is an option. I do think that I personally would want to help keep the children of a close relative safe and well if at all possible. If the infertile woman in question, or any relative for that matter, doesn't feel able to do that, then fine, that's why we have the safety net of a foster care system. Where the very very lucky few will be adopted, often by infertile couples who adore them and give them wonderful lives. I don't think that anyone has a moral responsibility to raise a child unless they choose to do so. And that includes birth mothers - if they don't feel it is a responsibility they want or are able to fulfill then they should be able to place the child with someone who wants to and is able to care for it without being shamed.

I don't see why a drug addicts life choices are a slap in the face to anyone except those she is directly responsible for, such as her children. And I maintain that drug addiction alone is not automatically a sign of an unfit parent.

Fertility is a sensitive subject. I get it. But if you feel that someone else's ability to get pregnant is personally insulting to you, then the problem is with you.

It is magical thinking, just like the fundies, to think that somehow your womb will be opened if you make the "right" choices and that someone who makes the "wrong" choices should be barren. The human body just doesn't work like that.