Esther Shrader (Anna Duggar's sister) living in a pop up

[emmiedahl]

We have a four year wait here but a certain amount of vacancies are set aside for emergency needs for seniors, disabled and families.

Yeah, ours only takes those groups. It is almost entirely families with children, the only singles are elderly or disabled. There is an advertised vacancy at theirs, so they should get on it. It took us about two weeks to get approved, you just have to do the income verification and then background checks for adults because it is crime-free housing.

[Witsec7]

Yeah, ours only takes those groups. It is almost entirely families with children, the only singles are elderly or disabled. There is an advertised vacancy at theirs, so they should get on it. It took us about two weeks to get approved, you just have to do the income verification and then background checks for adults because it is crime-free housing.

Some of our senior and disabled eligible housing is in nicely restored craftsman houses. I'm biding my time:) and now that I'm pet free I have greater access. My condo was 25 feet across a parking lot from our projects. Rather large +150 units (mixed). A lot of the privately owned voucher housing in town meets minimum physical requirements, but I live in an area with high housing demands. The only thing that is vacant are the foreclosed McMansions up in the hills.

[emmiedahl]

Some of our senior and disabled eligible housing is in nicely restored craftsman houses. I'm biding my time:) and now that I'm pet free I have greater access. My condo was 25 feet across a parking lot from our projects. Rather large +150 units (mixed). A lot of the privately owned voucher housing in town meets minimum physical requirements, but I live in an area with high housing demands. The only thing that is vacant are the foreclosed McMansions up in the hills.

Restored Craftsman houses, that sounds nice!

In many areas, it can be challenging to get into a subsidized apartments. But there ARE vacancies in the ones at The Dalles, so the Schraders could have a proper home if they wanted. It would cost money, though, and I suspect they are saving up for their trip to Africa and also just too good to get a job.

[gustava]

My Grandfather and Great Grandfather were sojourners before they permanently settled in the US and this was a common practice.

Explain "sojourners" please.

[Witsec7]

Explain "sojourners" please.

Sojourners typically left their home country to work in another and then returned to your homeland. Its a rather old term that was used before we all got into the legalized guest worker programs. They are temporary residents. In the case of my family these men worked in the US and then returned to Russia several times before actually immigrating to the US.

[SamuraiKatz]

Yup, I live in those apartments. According to the website for the section 8 apartments in their town, there are currently vacancies. It is much easier to get into a housing project than it is to get on the program where you pay only a percentage of your income.

You also need birth certificates and social security numbers for your kids. With the Shrader kids being born at home, is there a possibility that these documents were not obtained? That would set things back. Mr. and Mrs. Shrader need to get their acts together before CPS notices their living situation.

Living in section 8 housing wasn't my dream, but with 4 kids 6 and under it sure was a life saver back then. So were wic and foodstamps. I was active in the Historic Seventh Day Adventist movement at the time, and I faced huge pressure to wait on the Lord.... Looking back I can't believe I was dumb enough to be taken in like I was. :oops:

[emmiedahl]

You also need birth certificates and social security numbers for your kids. With the Shrader kids being born at home, is there a possibility that these documents were not obtained? That would set things back. Mr. and Mrs. Shrader need to get their acts together before CPS notices their living situation.

Living in section 8 housing wasn't my dream, but with 4 kids 6 and under it sure was a life saver back then. So were wic and foodstamps. I was active in the Historic Seventh Day Adventist movement at the time, and I faced huge pressure to wait on the Lord.... Looking back I can't believe I was dumb enough to be taken in like I was. :oops:

I'm glad you took the help! We are on the same programs. These programs and a few others are the reason we will be upwardly mobile in a few years. There is an immense load of shame in accepting help, but I have come to the conclusion that people are entitled to it (that bad word, "entitled") and that the real shame is in living in substandard conditions if there is any other option.

I think that if people felt better about using safety nets, there would be less poverty. These fundie families who use so much ingenuity in making a bad situation work could instead put that brainpower toward getting some marketable skills, and then they would not need to cram 9 people into a popup trailer and learn how to make eight different dinners with feed corn.

[CrazySister]

I'm glad you took the help! We are on the same programs. These programs and a few others are the reason we will be upwardly mobile in a few years. There is an immense load of shame in accepting help, but I have come to the conclusion that people are entitled to it (that bad word, "entitled") and that the real shame is in living in substandard conditions if there is any other option.

I think that if people felt better about using safety nets, there would be less poverty. These fundie families who use so much ingenuity in making a bad situation work could instead put that brainpower toward getting some marketable skills, and then they would not need to cram 9 people into a popup trailer and learn how to make eight different dinners with feed corn.

:clap: If only the fundies would accept that!

[kb2]

Wow! How very sad. This is "quivering reality." I just can't imagine mommy homeschooling in this environment.

THIS. I know it is summer, but how long have they been crammed into that little space? And how long will they continue to be squished like that? I know books are an expense that comes after food, water, shelter, safety, etc., but still...they can't possibly own too many books to be able to fit that many people (and their clothes and toiletries) into that space.

I would think that it would take a significant amount of time to get back into a real shelter and a good paying job, I wouldn't expect them to be able to do it immediately no matter how badly they want to. But it does sound like their choices brought them to this point--they chose to have that many kids, they chose to move across the country, they might have chosen to be assholes at work even though it got them fired. They are probably choosing to cut their chances of finding a job in half by deciding that one adult is the only one who can deal with the kids. I am seriously hoping that right now they are looking around and reassessing their situation, and are trying to find a less squished and more stable way to live. I am hoping they are not OK with forcing their children to live this way so that the adults don't have to face the situation that they created with their own choices. I am hoping that they want their kids to have a little more room for books, and that they haven't declared themselves victors in parenting because each offspring appears to still be breathing. But I can't say I trust them to be doing any of these things, and I suspect they're busy patting themselves on the back for procreating in the same way I'm proud that my potted plant outside only looks a little brown.

[Arete]

Sojourners typically left their home country to work in another and then returned to your homeland. Its a rather old term that was used before we all got into the legalized guest worker programs. They are temporary residents. In the case of my family these men worked in the US and then returned to Russia several times before actually immigrating to the US.

The irony lost on the part of the anti immigration crowd who are fundy Christians is that in the story of God giving the commandments to the Israelites, some of the English translations say "Thou shalt not oppress the soujourner......" and some say "thou shall not oppress the stranger", but they are both refering to foreigners who lived and worked among them. For people who take every part of the Bible literally, that admonishment always seems to escape them.

[Wolfie]

Some of our senior and disabled eligible housing is in nicely restored craftsman houses. I'm biding my time:) and now that I'm pet free I have greater access. My condo was 25 feet across a parking lot from our projects. Rather large +150 units (mixed). A lot of the privately owned voucher housing in town meets minimum physical requirements, but I live in an area with high housing demands. The only thing that is vacant are the foreclosed McMansions up in the hills.

You do know that there is a federal law that says that seniors must be allowed pets in any senior housing that receives government funds, right?

[emmiedahl]

You do know that there is a federal law that says that seniors must be allowed pets in any senior housing that receives government funds, right?

I did not know this. Our building allows one small pet per apartment. The manager is generally a by-the-book person, but she overlooks this. A lot of people have larger dogs, or more than one pet. Outside of scary dog encounters and the inevitable poop in the lawn, it is a good thing. People love their pets, even poor people. We did not realize when we moved in that the rules were so loosy-goosy, so we gave away our cats (to a very good home, better than an apartment to be sure).

[Mela99]

Hmm...

Y'all covered most of it for me, but here's my two cents: I'm surprised CPS or something hasn't been involved, because I'm pretty sure that isn't an ideal place for nine kids to live... they're essentially homeless.

[CrazyCatLady]

i don't live too far from here (seattle)...their website says they are friendly (and also fundamentalists). Think they would be friendly to me if i showed up in jeans?

[lilith]

Just found this letter written by Esther some years ago.

http://homeschoolblogger.com/shelleyhendry/405479/

I wonder if she is still so gushing about the man god sent her now that that man has her and all their blessings in such an unstable situation.

Also, they had a no touching courtship. No hand sex for them. Father Keller is obviously getting all soft and liberal and indulgent in his old age, letting Anna and Priscilla hold hands before marriage.

ETA: I was actually looking for the website for Mr Shrader's church when i came across this. I found the address and phone number, and mentions of it on other websites, but no church website. Does anyone know if one exists?

[Peas n carrots]

Where is rock bottom with some of these fundies? Is there a point so low, that they finally get fed up and say "we can't live like this anymore."

In places with extreme poverty like Appalachia, I can see how the thought process comes into play after generations of family were poor and nearly everyone you know is as poor as you...therefore those living there are used to it. But not these folks, they have fallen far and hard. Something has got to give at some point...you would think.

[HijabiLady]

I haven't read all the posts yet so sorry if i repeat but...

He writes this under his "abortionist" post:

We are truly a barbaric society. More babies aborted every year (1.3 million) than combined deaths in all wars our country has fought. God have mercy on this country

He obviously doesn't know the death count of Iraqis has crested a million. But I guess those men, women and children don't count because they aren't white Christians.

Also, someone mentioned they were surprised his congregation doesn't support him better financially and have him live in a house. Me thinks he is a pastor without a congregation and that he probably got his degree of divinity online or in some unaccredited "college." One thing is for sure, he needs to keep his dick in his pants until he can provide a better home and stability for his children. They didn't ask to be crammed into this pathetic excuse of a quiver/camper.

[gustava]

I haven't read all the posts yet so sorry if i repeat but...

He writes this under his "abortionist" post:

He obviously doesn't know the death count of Iraqis has crested a million. But I guess those men, women and children don't count because they aren't white Christians.

Also, someone mentioned they were surprised his congregation doesn't support him better financially and have him live in a house. Me thinks he is a pastor without a congregation and that he probably got his degree of divinity online or in some unaccredited "college." One thing is for sure, he needs to keep his dick in his pants until he can provide a better home and stability for his children. They didn't ask to be crammed into this pathetic excuse of a quiver/camper.

Somewhere he called it a "baby church."

[lilwriter85]

I haven't read all the posts yet so sorry if i repeat but...

He writes this under his "abortionist" post:

He obviously doesn't know the death count of Iraqis has crested a million. But I guess those men, women and children don't count because they aren't white Christians.

Also, someone mentioned they were surprised his congregation doesn't support him better financially and have him live in a house. Me thinks he is a pastor without a congregation and that he probably got his degree of divinity online or in some unaccredited "college." One thing is for sure, he needs to keep his dick in his pants until he can provide a better home and stability for his children. They didn't ask to be crammed into this pathetic excuse of a quiver/camper.

This. I also get the feeling that he doesn't have a congregation. I'm not a huge Steve Anderson fan, but at least Steve has his act together in regards to having a congregation and members who help support him and his family. I also have to give Steve props for finding a somewhat steady way to provide an income for his family. John Shrader doesn't have his act together when it comes to providing for his family. The guy has quit or had issues with different jobs. I think "baby church" might be code for home churching at one family's home with a few other families.

[BravaAmica]

Hmm...

Y'all covered most of it for me, but here's my two cents: I'm surprised CPS or something hasn't been involved, because I'm pretty sure that isn't an ideal place for nine kids to live... they're essentially homeless.

Wasco Co. is very poor. It would cost CPS a lot of money to intervene, even to give them basic emergency support, much less place seven siblings. I can see CPS waiting until the winter to help them.

I do agree with you, Mela99. I do think CPS should swoop in and put them in proper shelter [even if the kids have to share a couple of bedrooms], get those kids to the doctor and to school and make sure the kids have enough to eat. But it's probably not going to happen. We've heard nothing about life-dangering abuse or a situation that adversely impacts their physical well being. Right now, sure, they're sleeping in cramped quarters, but it's summer and they can hang out outside during the day. In winter, they'll all be stuck in the camper. And they'll be freezing. Then, CPS will intervene.

[Kitchen Princess]

They should move to AK. He can sell cars for Smugger. :idea:

Smugger has a car lot in Alaska, now?

[lilwriter85]

This might sound cruel of me, but I kind of hope TMZ or some other online media site finds out about this. It would lead to the mainstream media doing in depth reports on QF families and it would also lead to reports on Gothardism/ATI and VF.

[CrazySister]

Wasco Co. is very poor. It would cost CPS a lot of money to intervene, even to give them basic emergency support, much less place seven siblings. I can see CPS waiting until the winter to help them.

I do agree with you, Mela99. I do think CPS should swoop in and put them in proper shelter [even if the kids have to share a couple of bedrooms], get those kids to the doctor and to school and make sure the kids have enough to eat. But it's probably not going to happen. We've heard nothing about life-dangering abuse or a situation that adversely impacts their physical well being. Right now, sure, they're sleeping in cramped quarters, but it's summer and they can hang out outside during the day. In winter, they'll all be stuck in the camper. And they'll be freezing. Then, CPS will intervene.

Homelessness in and of itself is not an appropriate reason for the children to be removed to foster care. Plenty of shelters even have actual school - with a licensed teacher. That being said, there are things CPS could do if advised of the situation. From my experience of friends who've dealt with the U.S. foster care system there's normally a court-mandated list of requirements the parent(s) need to meet within x amount of time prior to removing the children (yes, there are exceptions where the removal is on an immediate-emergency-doesn't-matter-that-it's-3am basis). Even in the best of counties, 7 kids is a large number to suddenly place in foster care and would cause quite a financial burden on the county. The county would not exactly be gung-ho about removing them immediately - especially if too few beds & way too many damn kids appear to be the only obvious problems in this situation.

[SamuraiKatz]

I'm glad you took the help! We are on the same programs. These programs and a few others are the reason we will be upwardly mobile in a few years. There is an immense load of shame in accepting help, but I have come to the conclusion that people are entitled to it (that bad word, "entitled") and that the real shame is in living in substandard conditions if there is any other option.

I think that if people felt better about using safety nets, there would be less poverty. These fundie families who use so much ingenuity in making a bad situation work could instead put that brainpower toward getting some marketable skills, and then they would not need to cram 9 people into a popup trailer and learn how to make eight different dinners with feed corn.

Unfortunately, too many fundie headships and help meets think that safety net is a snare of the devil. :roll:

[BravaAmica]

Homelessness in and of itself is not an appropriate reason for the children to be removed to foster care. Plenty of shelters even have actual school - with a licensed teacher. That being said, there are things CPS could do if advised of the situation. From my experience of friends who've dealt with the U.S. foster care system there's normally a court-mandated list of requirements the parent(s) need to meet within x amount of time prior to removing the children (yes, there are exceptions where the removal is on an immediate-emergency-doesn't-matter-that-it's-3am basis). Even in the best of counties, 7 kids is a large number to suddenly place in foster care and would cause quite a financial burden on the county. The county would not exactly be gung-ho about removing them immediately - especially if too few beds & way too many damn kids appear to be the only obvious problems in this situation.

I wasn't implying CPS should swoop in and remove the kids. I wasn't clear. I meant that CPS would swoop in and require the Shraders to obtain assistance-shelter, food stamps, WIC, medical care, education- for the kids. And if that wasn't met, then the kids would be removed.