Another reason feminism benefits men

[Hane]

Without even trying too hard, I can think of four men close to me who were able to quit their jobs and change careers because their wives urged them to. In all four cases, these educated, fully employed wives--most of them with kids--were able to help shoulder the burden of tuition and student loans, and reduced household income and "family time."

The result? Happier marriages and families. Our fundies wouldn't get that, at all.

[Witsec7]

Without even trying too hard, I can think of four men close to me who were able to quit their jobs and change careers because their wives urged them to. In all four cases, these educated, fully employed wives--most of them with kids--were able to help shoulder the burden of tuition and student loans, and reduced household income and "family time."

The result? Happier marriages and families. Our fundies wouldn't get that, at all.

I totally agree, but I also think that fundies would claim that this would be detrimental to the kids in the long run. But they will always find excuses when their perception of gender roles isn't upheld.

[CanadianHippie]

I totally agree, but I also think that fundies would claim that this would be detrimental to the kids in the long run. But they will always find excuses when their perception of gender roles isn't upheld.

Seeing mom work will turn the girls into whores and the boys into the homosexuals. :roll:

[alba]

This is the thing that so many people who cling to the patriarchy don't understand: it hurts men as well as women.

[genericJname]

Yep. DH and I took turns getting our second degrees. I did it first and am now the one working full time while he goes to school.. and feels emasculated by taking care of his child while I'm working. ;)

[2xx1xy1JD]

I supported hubby and myself when we were first married, since he was still in med school. I also returned to work while he took parental leave with baby #1.

My sister supported my BIL through his career change and decision to return to school.

Both of our families have benefited from the care that our husbands have given our children, and from their increased career potential.

[deelaem]

In my opinion, it is completely against the point of feminism to point out how it benefits men.

[theologygeek]

Without even trying too hard, I can think of four men close to me who were able to quit their jobs and change careers because their wives urged them to. In all four cases, these educated, fully employed wives--most of them with kids--were able to help shoulder the burden of tuition and student loans, and reduced household income and "family time."

The result? Happier marriages and families. Our fundies wouldn't get that, at all.

Feminism is more than that though. It doesn't have to be about women working outside the home. It's about a woman's right to choose to be anything she wants to be. Yesterday I took my daughter who just graduated college to the train station so she could start her internship in another state. In the car, she was talking about the different homemade breads that I make and something so simple that she said brought me such joy. She said "If I choose to be a homemaker, I am going to make breads and freeze them." It's funny because my first thought was "Thank God for feminism." I immediately smiled and felt very happy. She can fly to the moon, or she can bake bread. She can be anything she wants to be.

[shesinsane]

Feminism is more than that though. It doesn't have to be about women working outside the home. It's about a woman's right to choose to be anything she wants to be. Yesterday I took my daughter who just graduated college to the train station so she could start her internship in another state. In the car, she was talking about the different homemade breads that I make and something so simple that she said brought me such joy. She said "If I choose to be a homemaker, I am going to make breads and freeze them." It's funny because my first thought was "Thank God for feminism." I immediately smiled and felt very happy. She can fly to the moon, or she can bake bread. She can be anything she wants to be.

And you've pointed out what many conservative/reactionary women overlook: feminism is about options, and having options is very different from being forced to pick a certain option. Feminism doesn't mean disliking stay-at-home-moms, it means disliking those that insist being a SAHM is the only correct thing for a woman to do.

[Minerva]

In my opinion, it is completely against the point of feminism to point out how it benefits men.

Sometimes I feel like the "patriarchy hurts men too" concept is inadvertently used to derail important discussions, is used as a cop-out when discussions get heated and cis dudes get butthurt, or is used to avoid talking about how when marginalized folks acquire rights (access to nice jobs for example) privileged folks will feel the effect of not dominating others and will just have to deal with that. That being said, feminism does benefit people of all genders, and I'm not against talking about that in venues where it isn't just being used as a diversion - which I don't think it is, here.

[alba]

Sometimes I feel like the "patriarchy hurts men too" concept is inadvertently used to derail important discussions, is used as a cop-out when discussions get heated and cis dudes get butthurt, or is used to avoid talking about how when marginalized folks acquire rights (access to nice jobs for example) privileged folks will feel the effect of not dominating others and will just have to deal with that. That being said, feminism does benefit people of all genders, and I'm not against talking about that in venues where it isn't just being used as a diversion - which I don't think it is, here.

Agreed.

One of the main things feminism is trying to eradicate is a culture in which men are "normal" and women are a deviation defined in relation to the "norm". If we say that feminism benefits men, then feminism is doing that very thing it's trying to prevent: defining women in relation to men. This is where I get the impression you're coming from, deelaem, right?

That said, one of the most common arguments against feminism I've encountered (besides the gender-essentialist one and the "you're overreacting" one, if either can be called an argument), is that we're a bunch of misandrists because the patriarchy hurts men, too, so why aren't we trying to help them as well? Telling these people about their male privilege has limited success. Proving that feminism helps people of all genders, however, means that they no longer have a leg to stand on.

[Deleted03]

In my opinion, it is completely against the point of feminism to point out how it benefits men.

why? do you think feminism should only be in the benefit of women? don't men live with us in society? Don't you think it's important to get them on board with the project? Honestly, it is important to show that a world where power imbalance between genders is terminated, is world where everyone benefits. Showing that men are stuck with less opportunities in a patriarchal world IS important to me. It's even something that should be given more time. That's also what many people are trying to do now. Of course I also don't buy in the idea that feminism should only study women. To me, studying gender roles involves studying men too. (not men first, nor men only, but men too). Because while us feminists leave those subjects behind, there's a vacuum created that people like fundamentalists or other sexist men groups (not all men groups are like that) will enter and then undermine the feminist project. We have to speak there too.

[CynicMom]

A wife completely submitting to her husband puts a BURDEN on him. He now has to consider how his actions will affect his wife knowing that if his actions constitute a hardship on her HE WILL HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING.

Feminism frees a husband from this burden. He can now ask for whatever he may want, knowing that his wife can speak up if she doesn't like something. The fact that she can speak up and ask him for whatever SHE may want frees him to be able to ask as well.