Adoption coercion on 16 and Pregnant

[Dhani_C]

I agree to some extent, but I still wouldn't make myself arbiter on right or wrong. Who are you or I to say who is or isn't a good mother? However, your last sentence just killed it. It's not about "feeling bad", but about very real implications and trauma that may prevent a teen to seek counsel, after they've been pressured. I've seen the show (not the episode in question) and stand amazed not at the teens, but at the adults around them. Teens are immature, but they're not inherently bad. They're trying to make the best of a situation that's stressful. And within the context of the show, usually, they're surrounded by adults who are often less than helpful. Cue Butch's constant whining about Catelynn and Tyler giving up their baby. Or the mother who asked her formerly anorexic pregnant daughter to go on a diet with her. Well, even adults aren't the best judges, are they?

In the real world, no situation is just cut and dry. Your and my conflicting anecdata shows that. What's good for one, is bad for the other. Teen parents aren't selfish, they genuinely try to do what's right. It's not about making them "feel bad" in the short term, but about helping them to do whatever is right for them, and their kids. And that's why I believe they need the freedom, and support (NOT pressure), to make choices that are good for all involved.

I politely disagree with the notion that teen parents aren't selfish. It's part of being that age that makes teens selfish. They are desperately trying to become independent and doing things for themselves and proving they are capable enough to handle anything that drives them to keep a child they cannot care for (ask my mother, she sees this over and over where she works). They are immature and not able to see beyond what's in front of them (some are, but the majority are not) and don't realize that a child is not a doll but an actual living thing that they have to care for physically and emotionally. Unless a teen parent has an amazing support system (Teen Mom's Maci and Farrah) they will never make it (in the sense that they will finish college, get a good job, and be able to fully support their child with good benefits, a home in a good neighborhood, ect.).

[genericJname]

I've seen the show (not the episode in question) and stand amazed not at the teens, but at the adults around them. Teens are immature, but they're not inherently bad.

That's how I feel whenever I watch that show. It seems like the outcome really depends on the quality of family support they have.

[samurai_sarah]

(snip)

I politely disagree with the notion that teen parents aren't selfish. It's part of being that age that makes teens selfish. They are desperately trying to become independent and doing things for themselves and proving they are capable enough to handle anything that drives them to keep a child they cannot care for (ask my mother, she sees this over and over where she works). They are immature and not able to see beyond what's in front of them (some are, but the majority are not) and don't realize that a child is not a doll but an actual living thing that they have to care for physically and emotionally. Unless a teen parent has an amazing support system (Teen Mom's Maci and Farrah) they will never make it (in the sense that they will finish college, get a good job, and be able to fully support their child with good benefits, a home in a good neighborhood, ect.).

With all due respect, I don't think the majority of teen parents are trying to prove something. They're trying to make good choices in an adult situation. I concede that they are not adults, and often lack foresight, and insight. They may not understand the scope and magnitude of what they're taking on. But I don't believe that they are selfish. Unaware probably, but not selfish.

[currywurst]

I agree to some extent, but I still wouldn't make myself arbiter on right or wrong. Who are you or I to say who is or isn't a good mother? However, your last sentence just killed it. It's not about "feeling bad", but about very real implications and trauma that may prevent a teen to seek counsel, after they've been pressured. I've seen the show (not the episode in question) and stand amazed not at the teens, but at the adults around them. Teens are immature, but they're not inherently bad. They're trying to make the best of a situation that's stressful. And within the context of the show, usually, they're surrounded by adults who are often less than helpful. Cue Butch's constant whining about Catelynn and Tyler giving up their baby. Or the mother who asked her formerly anorexic pregnant daughter to go on a diet with her. Well, even adults aren't the best judges, are they?

In the real world, no situation is just cut and dry. Your and my conflicting anecdata shows that. What's good for one, is bad for the other. Teen parents aren't selfish, they genuinely try to do what's right. It's not about making them "feel bad" in the short term, but about helping them to do whatever is right for them, and their kids. And that's why I believe they need the freedom, and support (NOT pressure), to make choices that are good for all involved.

But see, this is where I think I differ from most on this. See, I am just as concerned about the well-being of the baby as the mom. I live in the real world and I understand that not every choice or decision is going to produce perfect harmony for everyone involved. That is why I am not easily swayed by the argument that adoption is bad because it is traumatizing to the teen mom. No doubt it is. That is sad. But are we going to let a baby be raised in a bad home environment because having it be raised in a good home environment will be traumatizing to the birth mother? I am seriously asking this. Are we? Most of the girls featured on this show clearly needed a case worker, not a baby. And if you doubt me you can see if for yourself in the arrests and other legal problems they have had since.

I am not here to say who is and is not a good mother. I never said I have that ability. I can say that I have seen the show, and seen it in real life, and the reality is, is that most teen moms are not capable of giving their child a good upbringing. BTW, this is not just my own stupid opinion. This is backed up by plenty of statistics (i.e. teen moms are way more likely to raise criminals, drug addicts, drops outs, etc). Naturally a decision to adopt should be made on a case-by-case basis, but I would say that a teen mom with a loser BF, a shitty home life, a poor education, no job, no money, etc, should definitely be seriously thought of as not being fit to raise the baby in a decent way. This is where I think adoption would be an excellent solution for both mother and baby. Baby gets a good home and mom gets a second chance to grow up and build herself up so that she WILL be in a good position to raise a family some day. The reason I use the word "pressure" is because that is very often what it takes to get an immature, poorly educated, depressed person to make the right choice. I WISH it was not like that, but sadly, that is very often the way it is.

Like I said, almost all the girls on this show have struck me as being incredibly depressed people. They need help and having a baby is not the solution; it only adds to their problems. I want to make this clear: I support adoption because I support these girls. I do not support adoption because I think these girls are shitty people who do not "deserve" to be moms, or because I think I know who is and is not a good mother. I support adoption because I think that someone from a bad home, who has bad parents, a poor education, and limited life prospects does not need anymore problems on top of that. I think that person deserves a fighting chance, and that being a teen mom almost always invariably consigns that person to a life of poverty and desperation. As a consequence, the baby they had as a teen is also consigned to a life of poverty and desperation. I truly WISH we lived in a world where these girls and their babies had all the support, love, nurturing, care, and opportunities as everyone else, but they don't. They just don't. The only way to break this cycle is give all these girls a chance to grow up, mature, get educated, find a decent life partner, and way to support herself financially. That is close to impossible for most teen moms. I want what is best for these girls, and though I agree that being pressured sucks, and that giving up a baby for adoption is initially traumatizing, I truly believe that ultimately adoption would be the best choice for the majority of these girls. It would be in their own best interest.

[dawbs]

Saying a teen can't be 'forced' to place a child for adoption is like saying someone can't be 'forced' into sex or that anyone can leave an abusive relationship (because, really, they can open the door and walk away, right?).

Just because it may not always involve physical force doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

I recently watched my (teenage) cousin deal with a LOT of pressure to place her child for adoption. (full disclosure-I don't watch 16 and PG, I am generally 'pro adoption' I tend to agree w/ her parents that cousin and cousin's kid may have been better served by the adoption than by cousin raising the child--but it's not my choice).

Cousin 'stood her ground' and made her choice to parent the child, but if she would have placed the child for adoption, it would have been coercive.

When the people responsible for one's well being (the parents--soon to be grandparents) threaten to boot the PG girl out and leave her homeless, remove all forms of outside communication (phone, car, etc--permanent grounding for the duration of pregnancy but essentially removing all non parental/non church support systems from her), and spend hours regaling her with tales of adoption gone right and parenting gone wrong, it's hard to say that's NOT coercive.

None of the above things are illegal. They're all 'parenting decisions' made by a (fundie-ish, FWIW) family trying to 'parent' their daughter into the 'right' choice. But, honestly, no matter how you cut it, the decisions she made were not arrived at in a good way and were at best coercive and at worst, her hand was forced.

(knowing what I do of cousin's situation, her decision to parent may have been driven by the 'baby-daddy', some fundie-ism that she's 'destined' to be a Mormon housewife, and a hunk of 'rebellion' against her parent's decrees)

[Deleted03]

No doubt. But your adult, married, educated friend was able to cope with the pressure in a mature, responsible way. That is the difference between her and most teen moms. She did not give her baby to her own mom so she could go out and party. She did not just ignore the baby, etc, etc, etc....

You're assuming she is, and I'm thinking the choices she makes I would not make them. Because it's not my life, I'm not going to judge her maturity on that.

I don't think it's bad for the kids to be taken care of by more than one carer. I think if the grandmas do not want to be parenting, they can and should make it clear. I was not partying as a teen, and I think judgments on teens are bothering me, putting everyone in the same category. Some teens are immature and will stay immature even through tough times. But I think, just like everyone else, tough times may make them more responsible rather than less.

That's how I feel whenever I watch that show. It seems like the outcome really depends on the quality of family support they have.

I agree too. I think it's pretty obvious that there are a lot of immature adults who have had kids. Maturity is not a requirement to have babies for anyone, adults or teens. How anyone will take on that challenge, and sometimes make the best of a bad situation is dependent on the individual, and their age is not a, or the sole, predictor.

[samurai_sarah]

But see, this is where I think I differ from most on this. See, I am just as concerned about the well-being of the baby as the mom. I live in the real world and I understand that not every choice or decision is going to produce perfect harmony for everyone involved. That is why I am not easily swayed by the argument that adoption is bad because it is traumatizing to the teen mom. No doubt it is. That is sad. But are we going to let a baby be raised in a bad home environment because having it be raised in a good home environment will be traumatizing to the birth mother? I am seriously asking this. Are we? Most of the girls featured on this show clearly needed a case worker, not a baby. And if you doubt me you can see if for yourself in the arrests and other legal problems they have had since.

I am not here to say who is and is not a good mother. I never said I have that ability. I can say that I have seen the show, and seen it in real life, and the reality is, is that most teen moms are not capable of giving their child a good upbringing. BTW, this is not just my own stupid opinion. This is backed up by plenty of statistics (i.e. teen moms are way more likely to raise criminals, drug addicts, drops outs, etc). Naturally a decision to adopt should be made on a case-by-case basis, but I would say that a teen mom with a loser BF, a shitty home life, a poor education, no job, no money, etc, should definitely be seriously thought of as not being fit to raise the baby in a decent way. This is where I think adoption would be an excellent solution for both mother and baby. Baby gets a good home and mom gets a second chance to grow up and build herself up so that she WILL be in a good position to raise a family some day. The reason I use the word "pressure" is because that is very often what it takes to get an immature, poorly educated, depressed person to make the right choice. I WISH it was not like that, but sadly, that is very often the way it is.

Like I said, almost all the girls on this show have struck me as being incredibly depressed people. They need help and having a baby is not the solution; it only adds to their problems. I want to make this clear: I support adoption because I support these girls. I do not support adoption because I think these girls are shitty people who do not "deserve" to be moms, or because I think I know who is and is not a good mother. I support adoption because I think that someone from a bad home, who has bad parents, a poor education, and limited life prospects does not need anymore problems on top of that. I think that person deserves a fighting chance, and that being a teen mom almost always invariably consigns that person to a life of poverty and desperation. As a consequence, the baby they had as a teen is also consigned to a life of poverty and desperation. I truly WISH we lived in a world where these girls and their babies had all the support, love, nurturing, care, and opportunities as everyone else, but they don't. They just don't. The only way to break this cycle is give all these girls a chance to grow up, mature, get educated, find a decent life partner, and way to support herself financially. That is close to impossible for most teen moms. I want what is best for these girls, and though I agree that being pressured sucks, and that giving up a baby for adoption is initially traumatizing, I truly believe that ultimately adoption would be the best choice for the majority of these girls. It would be in their own best interest.

You haven't been saying that so far. You said that it was perfectly acceptable to put a lot of pressure onto teen mothers, and that the future of the innocent child was more important than a teen parent's. You belittled the trauma that some girls and women, who were forced into giving their kids up for adoption, went through, or still go through. You seem to think that all teen parents raise future drug-abusers and criminals. You call all teen dads losers.

But that's okay. That's an opinion. Only, you mentioned statistics. Show me your stats.

[slickcat79]

I don't think anyone should judge the quality of teen parents by the people who appear on 16 and Pregnant. Not only are they potentially immature, selfish, involved with losers, etc, but they chose to pimp themselves, their families, and their newborn children out to a trashy reality show during one of the most difficult periods of their lives. I think there's a difference between the people who find themselves pregnant as teenagers and say, "What can I do to make the best choice here?" and those who say, "Woohoo! Now I get to be on MTV!!"

[Deleted03]

Like I said, almost all the girls on this show have struck me as being incredibly depressed people. They need help and having a baby is not the solution; it only adds to their problems. I want to make this clear: I support adoption because I support these girls. I do not support adoption because I think these girls are shitty people who do not "deserve" to be moms, or because I think I know who is and is not a good mother. I support adoption because I think that someone from a bad home, who has bad parents, a poor education, and limited life prospects does not need anymore problems on top of that. I think that person deserves a fighting chance, and that being a teen mom almost always invariably consigns that person to a life of poverty and desperation. As a consequence, the baby they had as a teen is also consigned to a life of poverty and desperation. I truly WISH we lived in a world where these girls and their babies had all the support, love, nurturing, care, and opportunities as everyone else, but they don't. They just don't. The only way to break this cycle is give all these girls a chance to grow up, mature, get educated, find a decent life partner, and way to support herself financially. That is close to impossible for most teen moms. I want what is best for these girls, and though I agree that being pressured sucks, and that giving up a baby for adoption is initially traumatizing, I truly believe that ultimately adoption would be the best choice for the majority of these girls. It would be in their own best interest.

Some of the girls are straight As students who were cheerleaders or involved in sports and had dreams of their own. I don't think most of them look depressed or look like they were depressed before. Some girls never used BC, some used it and still got pregnant. There is a lot of diversity of experience and situations....

I also feel like you're assuming that without a kid those girls would grow financially secure. There are many people financially insecure in the US and they are not all teen moms or dads. Yes having the opportunity to go to college and not be financially responsible for a baby would give more chances on your side, but it's not a sureway either. They got pregnant, pushing them to adoption can bring up many more issues than having a baby would have. If you don't believe me, why don't you go on Ashley Salazar's blog, where she gave up her college in NYC, had drinking problems, and is still not happy with the decision 2 years later. This is someone scarred for life, and I don't think you can say she freely chose adoption, she was pushed to it, bonded to the child and pushed to give her up.

I grew up poor to a single mom, I was still a happy kid (mother's issues aside) as happy kids can be. And you cannot just say that kids who grew up poor are unhappy and should be displaced in a family that is more well-off.

All in all, we should do what we can to prevent teen pregnancies, but once the teens are pregnant I think the only think we should worry about is support and not what we think is better for the child.

[currywurst]

I never said that ALL teen dads were losers! I used that term to illustrate the point about the situation most of these girls are in. And I still think it is perfectly acceptable to put lots of pressure of these girls. Most are not capable of making good decisions. That is why they got pregnant to begin with. I wish we lived in a world where, as soon as a girl got pregnant, she was suddenly perfectly capable of unilaterally making only good choices, but we don't! The reason I say pressure is okay, is because I know that many (if not most) teens do not respond well to any other tactic.

I was not belittling the girls' trauma; I was making fun of how we, as a society, approaches very serious issues these days. We do not want to hurt anyone's feelings, and so we let the cycle of teen motherhood continue unchecked.

I do not think ALL teen parents raise future drug addicts and criminals. I never said that. I said teen moms are more likely to do so. The reason is because these girls are not prepared for parenthood and they tend to spend their lives in poverty.

I think it is perfectly okay to put a lot of pressure on someone who is immature and a poor decision-maker where their choice is likely to lead to some pretty awful outcomes.

http://www.cpeip.fsu.edu/resourceFiles/ ... ile_78.pdf

[browngrl]

I don't have a stake in this as I have not children. However,I think that adoption might well be the ultimate act of mothering - to give your child the best chance - even if this is very painful for you seems kind of noble to me. I watch the show 16 and pregnant and frankly I think that most (? all) of the children would have been better off if they had been adopted. Most of the mothers would have been better off too (IMO).

[samurai_sarah]

(snip)

Some of the girls are straight As students who were cheerleaders or involved in sports and had dreams of their own. I don't think most of them look depressed or look like they were depressed before. Some girls never used BC, some used it and still got pregnant. There is a lot of diversity of experience and situations....

I also feel like you're assuming that without a kid those girls would grow financially secure. There are many people financially insecure in the US and they are not all teen moms or dads. Yes having the opportunity to go to college and not be financially responsible for a baby would give more chances on your side, but it's not a sureway either. They got pregnant, pushing them to adoption can bring up many more issues than having a baby would have. If you don't believe me, why don't you go on Ashley Salazar's blog, where she gave up her college in NYC, had drinking problems, and is still not happy with the decision 2 years later. This is someone scarred for life, and I don't think you can say she freely chose adoption, she was pushed to it, bonded to the child and pushed to give her up.

I grew up poor to a single mom, I was still a happy kid (mother's issues aside) as happy kids can be. And you cannot just say that kids who grew up poor are unhappy and should be displaced in a family that is more well-off.

All in all, we should do what we can to prevent teen pregnancies, but once the teens are pregnant I think the only think we should worry about is support and not what we think is better for the child.

^ This. Being the child of a teen parent is not a life-sentence, unless there's no support.

[samurai_sarah]

I never said that ALL teen dads were losers! I used that term to illustrate the point about the situation most of these girls are in.

I used the Magdalen Laundries earlier to make a point about learning from experience. So, what's yours now? Is it that exaggeration is okay to make a point?

And I still think it is perfectly acceptable to put lots of pressure of these girls. Most are not capable of making good decisions. That is why they got pregnant to begin with. I wish we lived in a world where, as soon as a girl got pregnant, she was suddenly perfectly capable of unilaterally making only good choices, but we don't! The reason I say pressure is okay, is because I know that many (if not most) teens do not respond well to any other tactic.

Is that why they got pregnant to begin with? Have you ever heard of contraceptives failing?

I was not belittling the girls' trauma; I was making fun of how we, as a society, approaches very serious issues these days. We do not want to hurt anyone's feelings, and so we let the cycle of teen motherhood continue unchecked.

You said that innocent babies were more important than making someone "feel bad" - how is that not belittling trauma?

I do not think ALL teen parents raise future drug addicts and criminals. I never said that. I said teen moms are more likely to do so. The reason is because these girls are not prepared for parenthood and they tend to spend their lives in poverty.

I think it is perfectly okay to put a lot of pressure on someone who is immature and a poor decision-maker where their choice is likely to lead to some pretty awful outcomes.

http://www.cpeip.fsu.edu/resourceFiles/ ... ile_78.pdf

Thank you for the stats. Most of them are medical, and concerned with the physical outcome of being the kid of a teen parent. At the point of adoption that's already happened. The others don't say anything about the sort of support, environment etc, the parents were in. Hence, they tell us NOTHING at all about whether or not adoption is better or not. Your conclusions are your own.

edited for riffles

[Deleted03]

I never said that ALL teen dads were losers! I used that term to illustrate the point about the situation most of these girls are in. And I still think it is perfectly acceptable to put lots of pressure of these girls. Most are not capable of making good decisions. That is why they got pregnant to begin with. I wish we lived in a world where, as soon as a girl got pregnant, she was suddenly perfectly capable of unilaterally making only good choices, but we don't! The reason I say pressure is okay, is because I know that many (if not most) teens do not respond well to any other tactic.

I was not belittling the girls' trauma; I was making fun of how we, as a society, approaches very serious issues these days. We do not want to hurt anyone's feelings, and so we let the cycle of teen motherhood continue unchecked.

I do not think ALL teen parents raise future drug addicts and criminals. I never said that. I said teen moms are more likely to do so. The reason is because these girls are not prepared for parenthood and they tend to spend their lives in poverty.

I think it is perfectly okay to put a lot of pressure on someone who is immature and a poor decision-maker where their choice is likely to lead to some pretty awful outcomes.

http://www.cpeip.fsu.edu/resourceFiles/ ... ile_78.pdf

Read that blog: http://ashleydsalazar.com/ and tell me how great it is to pressure immature individuals into doing something they don't want to do.

[ilovetchotchkes]

No one CAN be forced to give up their baby. Adoption is a process and you can even revoke your decision at the last minute. No one can be forced to give up a baby for adoption. That is ridiculous. However, a teenage girl with absolutely no life experience absolutely, positively needs mature adults influencing her decision. She is not exactly capable of making a good decision on her own (see pregnancy with dumbshit BF).

Adoption is all about what is in the best interest of the baby, and most teenager girl think only of themselves. That is why is is perfectly acceptable to put LOTS OF PRESSURE on a pregnant teen to put her baby up for adoption. We're talking about a child's whole life here. This is not the time to be laid-back about anything.

I call shenanigans.

Good friend of mine- when I met her, she was a grandma at 35. She had her first baby at 16, got married to the baby's dad, had kiddos, and her oldest son had just gotten married and had a baby. (She's still married to the guy, which I understand IS an statistical improbability ) She worked hard, was a DAMN good mom and yes she grew up fast, but let me tell you, I know 30 year olds who I personally think have no right in reproducing because they are so immature, selfish and have no concept of how the "real world" works. (Ie: calling me, a stay at home mom at 12 midnight to ask if I want to go out drinking when they know I have a 2 year old....)

Yes, some of them have no concept, but a lot of them who I know who keep their babies IN REAL LIFE, not on some ridiculous "reality" tv show that's meant to highlight the selfishness and immature of said young ladies, grow up very quickly if they keep the baby.

I'm not saying adoption is bad, OMG NO, adoption is an amazing wonderful thing and I think anyone who adopts and women who adopt out their babies are strong, amazing women. And if that's the decision that the young lady makes it should be HERS and the baby's dad if he's in the picture. NOBODY ELSE'S. If my 16 year old girl came home pregnant, I'd lay out her options and say "if you keep the baby, you're going to have a lot of growing up to do but I am here to support you. Things happen. I will support you no matter what decision you make. Whether its abortion, adoption or keeping the kiddo." I don't have to like it, but hey, that's life. Kids will do things that disappoint their parents, whether its an unintended teen pregnancy, not following the career path that the parents dreamed of them following or marrying someone mom and dad are not crazy about.

[currywurst]

I guess I just don't understand when someone counters my argument by saying that I said "ALL" this and "ALL" that when I never once used that word. It just sort of makes it seem like that other person does not really have a good counterargument. If they did, they would not need to add such words to what I wrote.

[Mama Mia]

But where does it end currywurst ? By your own train of thought we should put "pressure" on anyone we think isn't quite fit to be a parent. Whose standards should we use ? In my view that should include anyone who thinks the key to good parenting is being materialistic, elitist and judgmental. We should also screen out anyone who is under the delusion that the people who appear on reality tv shows are good examples of ANY group of people. Please be sure to have your evidence prepared demonstrating why YOU would be remotely capable of imparting good values and basic common sense to your children - because I'm sure not seeing it.

[deelaem]

Some 30-odd years ago I was a teenager and pregnant. I got tremendous pressure to give the baby up for adoption. Being a teenager, it just made me more determined to keep him. Had I been handled sensitively and listened to, I might have chosen adoption. While I wouldn't trade my son for anything now, I do know that my family's reaction to my pregnancy deeply influenced my choices.

[samurai_sarah]

I guess I just don't understand when someone counters my argument by saying that I said "ALL" this and "ALL" that when I never once used that word. It just sort of makes it seem like that other person does not really have a good counterargument. If they did, they would not need to add such words to what I wrote.

I don't see where anyone did that. All who engaged with you, engaged with the points you made.

[currywurst]

You seem to think that all teen parents raise future drug-abusers and criminals. You call all teen dads losers.

[deelaem]

Seriously? You're a newbie and that's how you want to engage with the people here?

[samurai_sarah]

My apologies, the way you phrased your post sounded as if you were talking to everyone who engaged with you, not just me.

[currywurst]

Everyone, please, I want to make this very, very clear: I think that adoption is very often in the best interest of the teen mom and her baby. I like adoption because it gives a teen mom a second chance AND it gives the baby a better home life. The reason I use the word pressure is because this is one of those things that is seriously important. It is not something to be taken lightly. You know, I know how most of us have been raised, but really, doing "everything you want" is not the end-all and be-all of the universe. Just because a 16-year-old "stood her ground" or "made her OWN choice" or "stuck to her decision" does not automatically make that decision something which is good. In fact, saying something like that about a person generally leads me to believe that person is rather immature and self-centered. I agree that being pressured to do something sucks, but sometimes it really is in everyone's best interest.

[currywurst]

Seriously? You're a newbie and that's how you want to engage with the people here?

Um, I am not mad at anyone or anything. We're having a debate over something, I made the point that adding extra words to what I said was counterproductive, then I was told no one did that, and so then I provided the evidence that they did. I guess I fail to see how that is not a good way to engage with people. I don't get it. What did I do wrong? Should I have just let that slide? I am not being facetious. I am seriously asking. I don't want to be thought of as a turd. We were having a debate about teen adoption (a debate, which I think is great, BTW), and I have always felt that debates "go bad" when people start misquoting others.

I am really thrilled we are discussing this. I think having dialogues, debates, and counterpoints is critical. I think we need more debates like this.

[Deleted03]

Everyone, please, I want to make this very, very clear: I think that adoption is very often in the best interest of the teen mom and her baby. I like adoption because it gives a teen mom a second chance AND it gives the baby a better home life. The reason I use the word pressure is because this is one of those things that is seriously important. It is not something to be taken lightly. You know, I know how most of us have been raised, but really, doing "everything you want" is not the end-all and be-all of the universe. Just because a 16-year-old "stood her ground" or "made her OWN choice" or "stuck to her decision" does not automatically make that decision something which is good. In fact, saying something like that about a person generally leads me to believe that person is rather immature and self-centered. I agree that being pressured to do something sucks, but sometimes it really is in everyone's best interest.

it is HER decision. SHE has to live with it, not you. They are not a bunch of twits who don't know what they feel ok with. Just two years more and no one would ever find it acceptable to put pressure on her to get her baby to adoption.

How many girls would you see suffer long term psychological damage from a forced adoption just so 10% of them end up accepting the decision?

You cannot take the choice from everyone and undue pressure is unethical and I think it's unhealthy.