Mormons Say: No Grad Students on WIC

[emmiedahl]

mormonmentality.org/2007/06/05/married-mormon-graduate-students-on-welfare-is-it-right.htm

 

I came upon this while looking for info on a related topic for a personal issue. It's old (2007) but I think it is interesting because we get some insight into the way Mormons view government benefits when they are taken by "good" Mormon couples in grad school with young children. Most of the commenters are completely against it because "the couple will be making 6 figures in a few years". In my experience, future income does little to pay this month's rent. I was surprised, I thought most Mormons were very supportive of women staying home with young children, but the consensus seems to be that the mom needs to get off her ass and work even if she makes about $10 a week after childcare.

 

I was a little surprised at how many people were against a young Mormon family receiving WIC. It is a program that gets mentioned hundreds of times in the comments as an entitlement that these young couples are abusing. I did not know you could "abuse" WIC. Its point is to put healthy food in little tummies, so if a kid is eating then mission accomplished.

 

The Mormon Mentality website that this is posted on is interesting because it offers some insight into the LDS view of life. I consider Mormons kinda fundie just because giving up my coffee would be extreme, and giving up alcohol is not a possibility as long as I have a husband, kids, school, job, any of the above. I am curious about strict LDS people because I have family who are such and I always feel like I am seeing a shiny mirage and not the real story.

[Arete]

I wonder if some part of that attitude, at least subconsciously, is because they want to differentiate themselves from fundementalists mormons that practice polygamy, particularly those sects that have a lot of underage brides. The FLDS is well known in Mormon circles for the practice of "bleeding the Beast", or applying for government benefits based on them being single mothers (which in legal terms, they are). Their "celestial marriages" are not recognized. Every time they cause a fresh scandal, the mainline Mormon church goes to great lengths to distance themselves. Could be an issued of pride not to take benefits because it is linked to their less respectable polygamous "cousins". The LDS church also has a VAST social services network. Food pantries, canning facilities, bakeries, farms are all part of that, and they do take quite a bit of pride in providing for their members. Also, more you keep it in the family, so to speak, less chance of members straying.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I was on WIC for a short time. It was a very well-managed program, no real potential for "abuse" like food stamps, but the thing about it is that there's a level of social involvement, like brining infants in for checkups and such. You couldn't be on WIC and get away with the non-vaccines, no medical intervention stuff.

[hathorlive]

What amazes me is that all these politicians want every baby to be born, but then they bitch about the cost of feeding them.

WIC is a program that should be beyond such petty bitching. I guess in the ideal world, poor people wouldn't breed and then rich people wouldn't have to take care of them in any form.

[emmiedahl]

A lot of the commenters on that site are *really fucking angry* that grad students use government aid when they should just live without a graduate degree.

It is completely the opposite of my thinking as a college student with a family. My thought is, the beast will get its money back, probably hundreds of times over, when I am paying taxes. I guess I view these programs as an investment, and a grad student is highly likely to bring good returns. Not that social service programs should be given only to people who will pay them back, just that it seems like a no-brainer to me.

What amazes me is that all these politicians want every baby to be born, but then they bitch about the cost of feeding them.

That. I hadn't even thought about it, but these are Mormon families talking about what other Mormon families should do, so abortion is off the table. Mormon men are supposed to get advanced degrees, Mormon women are supposed to stay at home, both are supposed to marry early and breed as soon as possible. Are there any options that won't lead to other Molly Mormons getting on a high horse?

[Witsec7]

I think the Mormons also want their families to depend on the church when it comes to food and welfare. They are pissed when folks use programs offered by the govt, rather than the local fellowship. I'd like to hear a Mormon's opinion on this.

[emmiedahl]

I read the entire 600 or whatever posts. Most people strongly felt that these couples should receive no assistance, even from the church, because they should have waited to have kids. A few mormons brought up that young couples are pressured to marry early and have kids immediately thereafter, and the rest of them said the wives basically need to leave their baby with anyone who will watch them for free and trot their asses down to McDonalds.

I thought the LDS were all about family values. Apparently they are all about not spending a dime on anyone else, who coulda known?

[Witsec7]

I read the entire 600 or whatever posts. Most people strongly felt that these couples should receive no assistance, even from the church, because they should have waited to have kids. A few mormons brought up that young couples are pressured to marry early and have kids immediately thereafter, and the rest of them said the wives basically need to leave their baby with anyone who will watch them for free and trot their asses down to McDonalds.

I thought the LDS were all about family values. Apparently they are all about not spending a dime on anyone else, who coulda known?

Thank you for reading the back story (my eyes are kinda bunk tonight). I'm amazed as you are about the attitudes.

[Mama Mia]

I am continually amazed at the number of people lately who are flat out hateful of anyone who takes any type of support from the government. There are people I've known since my teens who are now on disability, receiving medicaid, who complain all day about evil big government and how everyone should take care of themselves :roll: I think it boils down to many people are mean and stupid.

My issue with WIC is that they are the biggest purchaser of formula in the U.S. I think it's fine if they give formula if mom is going to work or school, or if she can't make enough milk, but don't think billions should be spent on it for people who decide to use formula from the get go if they are going to be home.

[Whydoyouask]

I was on WIC for a short time. It was a very well-managed program, no real potential for "abuse" like food stamps, but the thing about it is that there's a level of social involvement, like brining infants in for checkups and such. You couldn't be on WIC and get away with the non-vaccines, no medical intervention stuff.

Actually you do not need to vax for WIC. You can refuse just about anything, (I didn't want them taking the iron level because I didn't trust the workers nor the cleanliness of the facility). Height and weight was ok, give me info on nutrition - that's fine, but I drew a very thick line at my WIC office.

I also delay/selective vax and WIC just managed to get over it.

I also don't see how bringing in the child reduces abuse of the program. I could've brought my neighbors kid for all they knew. As long as you get initially registered in the 'system' the quarterly checks just seem to magically appear.

[Coy Koi]

My issue with WIC is that they are the biggest purchaser of formula in the U.S. I think it's fine if they give formula if mom is going to work or school, or if she can't make enough milk, but don't think billions should be spent on it for people who decide to use formula from the get go if they are going to be home.

I'm all for breastfeeding, but some mothers just aren't going to do it no matter what, and getting formula from WIC prevents them from resorting to unsafe things like watering it down to make it last longer, or starting the baby on solid food and regular milk too early. I think WIC (and other groups and society in general) should do more to encourage and facilitate breastfeeding, but trying to force it is not good policy.

I breastfed for a couple months, then formula fed (and got it from WIC) because at barely 18 I was not comfortable breastfeeding around anyone else and even though I knew that legally I could do it in public, I was scared that someone would challenge me on it and I found that prospect humiliating. It was very isolating to me, which just exacerbated my postpartum depression. Other women I've known of have been uncomfortable with breastfeeding due to a history of sexual abuse. These are just a couple of the barriers to breastfeeding, and they can't be ignored.

[lilwriter85]

I think the Mormons also want their families to depend on the church when it comes to food and welfare. They are pissed when folks use programs offered by the govt, rather than the local fellowship. I'd like to hear a Mormon's opinion on this.

My uncle's ex wife was a Mormon as a child. Her family left the LDS church when she was 12. Her mom was raised LDS and her dad converted to LDS. She said that her mom disliked how her ward/congregations had to constantly support families in need. Her mom wasn't completely against helping out others she just disliked the frequency of it at church. My aunt's parents weren't extremely conservative and they understood the need for government assistance. My aunt said that there were Mormon families at her church that refused food stamps and WIC when some members suggested it. There are some Mormons that aren't against government assistance.

I have heard other stories of how Mormons get a lot of assistance from congregations/wards. I have a friend who lived in Utah for several years and her Mormon co-workers were often asking her if she could donate clothing or food to their congregations. She said that there were times, her co-workers were trying to gather up a month's worth of food for families in need. There is a disabled Mormon blogger who I've been following. She collects SSDI and she seems ok with that because she paid into the system before becoming disabled. But I get the vibe from this blogger that she is against other forms of government assistance and she tends to depend on her church for a lot of things such as equipment, home care, and the work done to her house was done by church members.

[debrand]

Aren't Mormons required to tithe? Would a Mormon family who is having finanicial difficulty be allowed to keep their ten percent so that they don't have to receive church help?

[lilwriter85]

Aren't Mormons required to tithe? Would a Mormon family who is having finanicial difficulty be allowed to keep their ten percent so that they don't have to receive church help?

Yup they are requried to tithe. The Mormon blogger that I mentioned in a previous post said on her blog that she tithes 10 percent of her SSDI check every month. Her SSDI check isn't that much. She only worked for a few years before becoming disabled. I think she could be given some slack on tithing. I do wonder if a struggling Mormon could ask to keep their ten percent if they were in desperate need.

[debrand]

Yup they are requried to tithe. The Mormon blogger that I mentioned in a previous post said on her blog that she tithes 10 percent of her SSDI check every month. Her SSDI check isn't that much. She only worked for a few years before becoming disabled. I think she could be given some slack on tithing. I do wonder if a struggling Mormon could ask to keep their ten percent if they were in desperate need.

After some people gives their ten percent, they have to beg the church for help which makes them more dependent on their religious institution.

I was never Mormon but our church emphasised tithing. There were many guests speakers who told us how giving ten percent was a sign the person strusted god. One woman gave the example of her father, who didn't have enough moeny to buy his kids shoes, yet he gave his ten percent. Later, someone from the church gave them used shoes. I wondered why the dad couldn't have sparred the middle man and just bought new shoes his own self

It sounds like the Mormon church has a similar system set in place.

edited for clarity

[Deleted03]

I agree with you Emmie, I think that this is just like a "loan" where the government gives you some money (and seriously do people realize how much money tax breaks represent vs funding some families in need????) and as soon as you work you will pay enough in taxes in the next couple of years to refund the help that was given to you.

That's what the government is here.

[Dhani_C]

I think the Mormons also want their families to depend on the church when it comes to food and welfare. They are pissed when folks use programs offered by the govt, rather than the local fellowship. I'd like to hear a Mormon's opinion on this.

Well, the church does offer assistance, but I have never heard of them telling people to not accept welfare. I know that it wasn't an issue for my parents because my mom graduated from nursing school, married my dad after he returned from his mission, and then put him through school before she had my siblings and I. If anything, they may not appreciate folks that "double-dip" by taking assistance from both the government and the church, because church assistance not only covers food, but can help cover the cost of rent or bills. They may view it as dishonest because the person then doesn't have to work to cover anything (government pays for food and part of house (if part of housing program) and then the church pays for food and part of house) and then just sponges off both systems even though there may be others who may need the government welfare more than they do.

[Dhani_C]

Aren't Mormons required to tithe? Would a Mormon family who is having finanicial difficulty be allowed to keep their ten percent so that they don't have to receive church help?

Yes, we are commanded (require is a strange word because you always have a choice in the matter) to give 10% of our increase (which is monetary for most people). This goes toward church welfare programs and the construction of temples and church buildings among other things.

[DarkAnts]

I cant believe that people are being so negative about this. The couple will be paying this back with interest once they are out in the real world. I do not look down on people who need assistance. This couple needs a little to help while they are in grad school. Big freaking deal. Grad school is expensive unless you get a stipend that covers tuition and books.

The church dose offer assistance. The family usually has to do some work for the church to get it. Like working in the bishops store or cleaning the church. The families that I know who are on it have to report their government subsidized welfare to the church before they get help. This is a monthly occurrence to discourage people from double dipping. They are not against people accepting government subsidized welfare. The church can not reasonably cover all of the expenses for every family out there that needs help.

I know this because part of my family is mormon. One of them is receiving help through the church because minimum wage is not a livable wage.