Arizona Lawmakers: Pregnancy Begins Before Conception

[dairyfreelife]

I can get you info about universities in Canada, depending on what you want to do your master's in and give you their contact information. Don't give up until you talk to an admissions officer! We are moving to the right too but not nearly as bad.

There are work programs out there. Also, if you have a background in the trades Australia does recruit. I think they try harder for Commonwealth members but I imagine if you're qualified enough it doesn't matter. You aren't placed in the bigger cities though. The people I know got placed basically in the middle of nowhere. If you're looking for residency it is a thought though. It's too bad they don't do the holiday visas for US citizens in Europe.

Aw, thanks. I think I'm staying put for the moment though. I'm rather comfortable in my state. It's not in the crazy right now. They work hard to provide for the poor and women's health here and coal mining has been a big profession and similar professions so unions are strong here as well. We're big on rights here and enjoy our freedom. :lol: Poverty is a serious problem though, the economy is bad (recession before the current one). There are some jobs though in the cities like Charleston. I don't advise any lawyers to come here though because you'll probably struggle. We have too many as it is. We're rather religious as a whole in the state, but politically lean in the blue. I may head north to New Hampshire or Vermont for a job out of college first, which are more progressive states.

If all this legislation keeps up and hits my home state, I'll totally be sending you a PM about Canada uni's. We're going to be in big trouble as a country for women's rights if my state caves. ;) I'm not sure about residency though even with a degree from a Canada or UK uni. The US does often grant visas to those who've gone to school here, but not always. It's definitely a thought though should things get really sour here.

[dairyfreelife]

I'd say Australia would be high on my list, the climate seems mostly the same as it is where I live, except more poisonous.

I would try the UK or NZ but I think life on an island might wig me out after a while.

From what I hear, NZ is a very difficult place to immigrate to and they don't let very many people from other countries in. I'd probably try Australia first. You'd probably have much better luck. Depending on what you and your spouse do for work, you could try my state (West Virginia) or maybe Vermont. Vermont's rather liberal. That's if you aren't ready to move out of the country, but feel your state is going off the deep-end. It's much easier to move cross-country than out of the country. ;)

[Glass Cowcatcher]

@ Miggs and Keeks 21:

This was, supposedly, eucalyptus trees that are so full of eucalyptus oil that exploded if they were accidentally caught on fire or during grass fires. Maybe I got punked by Cracked.com but I remember people in the comments vouching for that.

Not like we don't have poisonous stuff here, though, I'll never forget going outside a few years ago and finding a ginormous cottonmouth next to the porch. :shock:

[Sunnichick31]

Gah! I told Sunnidude about this and it seems like he is taking the side of teh baybez! That really annoys me. I mean, I don't like abortion and I hope that women do consider adoption and whatnot, but I am pro-choice because i know that there are circumstances where abortion is the best option, and because I know that if abortion isn't legal, women will go back to coat hangers, and lastly because i don't want to live according to someone else's values, so why should I expect them to live according to mine? That's why I consider myself pro-choice.

I"m seriously not happy that Sunnidude doesn't understand that these laws end up hurting women. I wish he understood that you can be pro-life and pro-choice at the same time (I personally don't feel like they are mutually exclusive).

First he was anti-gun (where I come from, that's practically a crime!) and now this. :angry-screaming:

[Mommy22alyns]

What the hell is wrong with our ENTIRE COUNTRY?!?!?!?! :evil:

[Miggy]

@ Miggs and Keeks 21:

This was, supposedly, eucalyptus trees that are so full of eucalyptus oil that exploded if they were accidentally caught on fire or during grass fires. Maybe I got punked by Cracked.com but I remember people in the comments vouching for that.

Not like we don't have poisonous stuff here, though, I'll never forget going outside a few years ago and finding a ginormous cottonmouth next to the porch. :shock:

True. On a really hot day oil evaporates out of the leaves and you can see it form a layer in the air above the bush. In a bushfire this layer of oil can explode and cause the treetops to burst into flame well ahead of the main fire front. It means fires move really fast and will jump roads/rivers/firebreaks. (Guess who has a brother in the bushfire brigade.) I've never really thought about it as "exploding trees" though. Eucalyptus trees are more of a danger to idiots who camp underneath them as they tend to drop large branches. :lol: (I had to google cottonmouth - nice!)

Back to the actually thread; perhaps some of our British freejingers can tell me, is it true that a lot of Irish girls travel to England to get abortions because they can't get them in Ireland. (Tv shows love to use this as a story line but is it based on reality?) Are American girls going to have to start doing the same thing - travelling to Canada or Mexico in search of birth control drugs and/or abortions?

[Glass Cowcatcher]

True. On a really hot day oil evaporates out of the leaves and you can see it form a layer in the air above the bush. In a bushfire this layer of oil can explode and cause the treetops to burst into flame well ahead of the main fire front. It means fires move really fast and will jump roads/rivers/firebreaks. (Guess who has a brother in the bushfire brigade.) I've never really thought about it as "exploding trees" though. Eucalyptus trees are more of a danger to idiots who camp underneath them as they tend to drop large branches. :lol:

Do they smell? Eucalyptus oil smells wonderful.

(I had to google cottonmouth - nice!)

They normally only live around rivers and ponds, but dumb neighbors left a half-filled plastic pool around for a few weeks and I think it was living in there.

Back to the actually thread; perhaps some of our British freejingers can tell me, is it true that a lot of Irish girls travel to England to get abortions because they can't get them in Ireland. (Tv shows love to use this as a story line :lol: but is it based on reality?) Are American girls going to have to start doing the same thing - travelling to Canada or Mexico in search of birth control drugs and/or abortions?

Watch for a law preventing travelling to another state for an abortion soon.

[Tator Tot Tubby]

The part of the article that scares me is that doctors are protected from lawsuit if they withhold information from the mother because they think it'll make her want to abort. I have the right to know what's happening to my child and my body.

[JesusFightClub]

Do they smell? Eucalyptus oil smells wonderful.

They normally only live around rivers and ponds, but dumb neighbors left a half-filled plastic pool around for a few weeks and I think it was living in there.

Watch for a law preventing travelling to another state for an abortion soon.

Yeah, they do. Abortion is not legal there and people come across to get one. I don't know how often this happens though.

I am amazed, exploding trees! My mum wants to save up to visit Australia (we have relatives there) I will warn her to look out for fires and bitey things...;)

[JesusFightClub]

Oh, I also forgot to say. Our cousins in the Netherlands sent a ship for the Irish women. You could board the ship and there were doctors to sort you out for an abortion. They were refused permission to dock IIRC, this was a fair few years ago and I remember thinking it was a cool thing to do.

[ChickeyMonkey]

The only solution to this is to lock up all men. Bring them out once or twice a year for breading. You cant have a baby without sperm

Would we fry or bake the mean after breading them? Would they be breaded with a flaky crust or a beer-batter coating? ;) :D

[PokaDot]

Do they smell? Eucalyptus oil smells wonderful.

They normally only live around rivers and ponds, but dumb neighbors left a half-filled plastic pool around for a few weeks and I think it was living in there.

Watch for a law preventing travelling to another state for an abortion soon.

WTF, seriously? Sometimes it's easier to go to another state-especially if you live on the border....or because your state is full of assholes.

I'm pretty sure it's flat out illegal to do something like that.

I mean.....I can go to California and buy medical marijuana (providing I've got the proper documentation), and smoke it there...and my current (crappy for other reasons) state, that does not allow it, can't do a fucking thing about it.

If that ever happens....Canada...UK...Australia. Here I come! How hard is it for a software engineer to immigrate? ;)

[Glass Cowcatcher]

@ poka dot--

Just to be clear,I don't know of any such legislation in the works, just sayin git would not surprise me.

[Miggy]

You can smell the oil as you walk through the bush on a hot day. Bbqs using eucalyptus wood are brilliant too - the smoke smells of the oil and it flavours your meat. Sooo delicious.

[ChickeyMonkey]

You can smell the oil as you walk through the bush on a hot day. Bbqs using eucalyptus wood are brilliant too - the smoke smells of the oil and it flavours your meat. Sooo delicious.

We have a good number of Eucalyptus trees here in San Diego, and at night, driving through certain parts of the city, it smells kind of like Eucalyptus soap. It's nice.

[RR88]

The part of the article that scares me is that doctors are protected from lawsuit if they withhold information from the mother because they think it'll make her want to abort. I have the right to know what's happening to my child and my body.

This.

…Or does informed consent not matter anymore?

I'm probably more "right-wing" than a lot of the poeple here at FJ, but I am tired of politicians telling physicians how to practice medicine and treating women like broodmares.

[bicyclecat]

Ugh, Jan is at it again.

She's a nice enough person, when not working, but as a lawmaker, she's one of the worst. I came right out and told her that I was working for the opposition and would be very happy when my side beat her. She laughed it off and was nice enough about it, but this atrocity is why I and everyone else on staff wanted her out of office so badly.

The woman doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground, in regard to what's best for her constituents.

[Whydoyouask]

Totally OT but I am leaving AZ in 3 weeks!

[Sunnichick31]

Totally OT but I am leaving AZ in 3 weeks!

Woohoo!!!

For those unlucky enough to be staying in AZ, can they just ask for copies of any test results and whatnot?

[dairyfreelife]

This.

…Or does informed consent not matter anymore?

I'm probably more "right-wing" than a lot of the poeple here at FJ, but I am tired of politicians telling physicians how to practice medicine and treating women like broodmares.

I don't know it can be legal to withhold vital information regarding someone's health or the health of the fetus a woman is carrying. I discussed this with my parents. My dad is hardcore Republican and was shocked to learn that some states allow that. He and my mother would not have been happy to have had information about my mother or any of our health while in the womb kept from them.

I highly doubt I would abort a child for a problem that's not terminal, but I'd want to know if something is wrong. If the baby will be born without a leg or an arm or with Downs or anything, I want to know so I can prepare to have a child who may have some problems. I'd want to research and learn how to best handle such a child. I'd want to know too if the child will be born without half their brain or they have terminal illness or syndrome where aborting it would be more merciful than to let it come into the world to suffer. I don't care what some "pro-life" doctor thinks, the decision to terminate a pregnancy in the third trimester is almost never made lightly. There's almost always a serious problem when a couple or just a woman decides to terminate at that point. Just because I wouldn't terminate a Downs child, I understand why someone would when you consider that DS children have lots of health problems, will need a lot of doctors, maybe some therapies and special education resources. There's a higher risk of heart problems and leukemia in DS children than the average child. Not wanting to deal with it or being unable to and terminating is fine. It's not as simple as just having the child and letting someone adopt them. Children with health problems are hard to adopt. Most couples want healthy children when they adopt newborns. It's not the place of anyone except a doctor and the woman and even the couple (I assume involved fathers would want to know too if their coming child will have problems) what a couple decides.

Also, Arizona isn't the only state trying this. Nine other states already do. PA, SD, ND, IN, MO, UT, ID, MN and NC already have Wrongful Birth laws. Kansas is debating a measure for this as well so that anti-abortion doctors can't be sued for withholding information that might (key word there is might, doesn't mean she will) cause the woman to have an abortion. So, I think I just added more states to the "where not to live" list.

[ellerigby]

OK. I was born and raised in Arizona, and then chose to move back here after undergrad/law school/general adventuring to take the Arizona bar. I'm staying here for now, and am fighting the good fight for women's rights, progressive immigration policies, fair criminal statutes, etc. I vote, I protest, I volunteer for Planned Parenthood, and I do my best to keep others informed on current state events. I get pretty bummed when people talk about leaving- if every liberal Arizonian fled the state, there wouldn't be anyone left to fight the crazy!

Every state and every country have issues. Mine might have more than some other states, but that's one reason why I stay - to work toward changing it! I hate what's currently going on here, but I know there are a lot of good Arizonians voting and protesting and trying to change people's minds. I might end up stuck here when it turns into Gilead, but at least I went down fighting.

[jaynie]

WTF, seriously? Sometimes it's easier to go to another state-especially if you live on the border....or because your state is full of assholes.

I'm pretty sure it's flat out illegal to do something like that.

I mean.....I can go to California and buy medical marijuana (providing I've got the proper documentation), and smoke it there...and my current (crappy for other reasons) state, that does not allow it, can't do a fucking thing about it.

If that ever happens....Canada...UK...Australia. Here I come! How hard is it for a software engineer to immigrate? ;)

There is already a bill to stop non-parents from transporting minors to other states for abortions. You could argue that parents have the right to know (I don't think they do, though), but whichever way you slice it it is inching closer to outlawing crossing borders for abortions at all.

http://jezebel.com/5896921/anti+abortio ... andma-bill

[m0drnmoonlight]

The part that angers me the most is doctors are protected from litigation if they withhold medical information from their patient! So if the mother and/or baby DIES due to some medical issue and the doctor never said anything because they didn't want the mother getting an ungodly abortion, the mother's family can't sue for wrongful death?! Doesn't a doctor have an obligation to their patient to let them know what''s happening with their own body?

So is this now going to be a "considered pregnant until you have a period" thing? I can't believe this.

[EmmieJ]

In recent years (especially when Bush-Cheney were in office), I really would have liked the opportunity to emigrate, and my first choice is Canada. However, I've waited too long and have not accumulated enough wealth to make emigration there viable. There is a sort of test you can do to see if you'd even qualify to be considered for emigration there, based on education, job skills, financial means, age, etc.

However, I'm in northern California, which is a pretty decent place to live and where most of my family live also. To emigrate would be to leave them behind, and with aging parents,that's very hard to do.

I also agree that we need to stay and fight the good fight, and take back our laws and our state senates, etc., from the crazies who have taken over and want to run the U.S. right into the ground.

[Kitty]

There is already a bill to stop non-parents from transporting minors to other states for abortions. You could argue that parents have the right to know (I don't think they do, though), but whichever way you slice it it is inching closer to outlawing crossing borders for abortions at all.

http://jezebel.com/5896921/anti+abortio ... andma-bill

Except they can't pass a law saying you can't cross state borders, period. And they have no way of telling whether or not you went to a neighboring state for an abortion, because OF COURSE that neighboring state probably won't even know (or care) you had an abortion, and if they did they wouldn't report it.

Right? :?